NathanKell

Realism Overhaul Discussion Thread

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On 4-5-2017 at 3:17 AM, Combatsmithen said:

Is there any ETA on a stable release to CKAN? Because it currently looks like by looking at the spreadsheet that only 3 of the required mods are having minor issues

The only mod that is holding back RO to be available on CKAN is Ferram Aerospace Research. When FAR gets updated, it will be indexed on CKAN.

You'll have to install the dev version of FAR manually to play RO on 1.2.2

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I tried multiple times in last couple months to get RO and all depended mods running, including doing tech tree with pearl etc, I never get starting engines I remember from 1.1.3 tech tree and it is always kinda messed up. Is tech tree even functional in current beta RO version? I play carrer only and it make no sense with no engines or crew modules showing up properly in VAB:/

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59 minutes ago, Hrv123 said:

I tried multiple times in last couple months to get RO and all depended mods running, including doing tech tree with pearl etc, I never get starting engines I remember from 1.1.3 tech tree and it is always kinda messed up. Is tech tree even functional in current beta RO version? I play carrer only and it make no sense with no engines or crew modules showing up properly in VAB:/

Last I played RO was in 1.1.3. In that version, an additional mod, RP-0 (and several more dependencies) was required to play career. With RP-0, The tech tree progression is very well balanced.

I haven't heard anything lately about RP-0, I assumed it was waiting for a 1.2.2 release of  RO.

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Tyler (@tylerraiz) has been putting up some great tutorial videos for installing and playing RSS/RO. Maybe those can help you too.  

1 hour ago, Hrv123 said:

I tried multiple times in last couple months to get RO and all depended mods running, including doing tech tree with pearl etc, I never get starting engines I remember from 1.1.3 tech tree and it is always kinda messed up. Is tech tree even functional in current beta RO version? I play carrer only and it make no sense with no engines or crew modules showing up properly in VAB:/

 

 

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I've been slogging through videos and articles trying to find what I'm doing wrong but not getting very far. I was wondering if someone here could give me a few pointers.

Trying to get into orbit in RO/RP0. I've watched various tutorials and built what should be an orbit capable vehicle. 10,000+ DV. Playing with Test Flight I've got a first stage with an RD103 that burns for the rated time, a second stage AJ10 ditto, then six Baby Sergeants and finally a single BS.

On a good day it will get into orbit but with a highly eccentric orbit - the Pe might be 150km if I'm lucky, but the Ap will be thousands of km. More often the Pe ends up at something like 135 km but with the Ap still way into the thousands.

I just can't seem to get a more even orbit, the dv is clearly there but I can't come up with an ascent profile to do this.

Can someone give me some quick hints ?

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@DC Early game rockets will tend to produce highly eccentric orbits (just look at the real life Explorer, Vanguard etc.). To reliably get a more-or-less circular orbit I need the final stage to NOT be a SRB - some form of RCS or multi-ignition engine is needed for really fine control.

However to try and minimise the eccentricity you can let your AJ-10 stage coast to apoapsis (provided its above the atmosphere) and then use its RCS to align pro-grade before staging the sergeants. Practice flying the first two stages consistently to get more or less the same burnout apoapsis on each launch. After that playing with the amount of fuel in the sergeant stages can help to target more closely having just enough dV in the final stages to circularise - doing a test flight and pausing the game just as you pass through circularisation can help gauge how much fuel to remove but reducing the weight of the final or penultimate stages will of course have knock on effects on the other stages.

To be honest I wouldn't worry about it and wait until you've unlocked better tech before trying for precision orbits.

 

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@Aelfhe1m Thanks, that's really helpful. I wasn't wanting to get anything close to a circular orbit as I realise there's pretty big limitations in the technology, just wanted to try and utilise the dV a bit better.

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So, I've developed what should be RO configurations that allow you to use the HG-3 and HG-3-SL engines in your game. However, as my computer is an over-glorified potato crate, I cannot test these configurations. As such, I am sharing a link here to download the configurations. Installation is simple, just overwrite the RO_SXT_Engines.cfg file with the file included in the download, and add the HG-3_Config.cfg file to the Engine_Configs folder. The whole download is structured so that you can alternatively just drop the first folder you see into the GameData folder of your install and just tell it to overwrite everything, and it should work just fine.

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@DC Heya mate. Easier mode is to burn even with the horizon before/after Apo, starting at a point where the surface is less then 45 degrees to the tangent of your orbital position (so, your rocket will be, if the surface is evenly below you, 45 degrees or less to the screen, if it is pointed prograde) and adjust your positive/negative angle while watching your orbit develop. This guarantees Radial -/+ in the right places, and also puts energy into prograde. So you can set your MechJeb to 0 pitch, and change the pitch as you watch your orbit balloon out to control it. 

If you test a few things, you will see that it is possible to setup a reasonably circular orbit (it will still be a bit eccentric) by setting up a high Apoapsis with an overpowered first stage, then burning "Radial -"  before you get there with your second stage. This is actually what the Vega rocket does for some of its ascent profiles in real life (since its first three stages are solids). This flattens your apoapsis and raises your periapsis, because by burning "Radial -" before your Apoapsis, you are adding energy to your orbit, and removing it from your ascent vector. Think of your rocket as a Vector arrow pointing towards where you want to add/subtract.

You can also wait until after your apoapsis.. well after.. and burn Radial + . This will also drag down your apoapsis and raise your periapsis. If you wait long enough, it will do it by quite the amount, if you are close to orbital velocity. I have gotten out of a suborbital periapsis with a TWR of <1 by doing this.

You can play tricks with Radial burns if you have enough Delta V. Pre Apo, burn negative. Post apo burn positive .If you have two ignitions on your second stage, you can extinguish before the Apo and resume after. I'd recommend something like at least 1 minute either side. During my ascent profiles I wait until at least a minute post/pre before doing this to get better results.

If you think about it, standard practice for normal KSP is to burn half your Delta V before and after the Apoapsis to circularize. This means you are burning radially in part for the entire burn.. slightly negative on the way up, slightly positive on the way down. So this is just a brute force way of doing the same thing.

If you use MechJeb, you can adjust your attitude during this burn, if it has to be all at once, to accomplish it. Its tricky and requires a lot of attention.

One thing I realized was that with long duration Radial + burns well after passing Apoapsis, you can push your Apo way out on the other side of the planet using this method, then with RCS you can circularize. This is what I think of as a bounce. I've done this multiple times with TWR of less than 0.50 on second stages, but had to descend to something like 120k from 250k, burning the whole way, to get there.

So basically, if your Apoapsis is over the height you want it to be and you have deltaV left over, start burning radially negative until you reach the Apo, then go back to prograde and slide slowly into Radial + over time.

EDIT: forgot to mention.. if you have the ability, add a small tank to the underside of your command pod that has 100% hydrazine or HTP.. whatever you set the command pod up to be, and add 4 RCS blocks to the bottom edge of the pod. If you are using probes, make sure it has plenty of RCS. It will save your butt up there :-) You can also setup linear RCS thrusters to point "down" like a rocket engine, and they will respond to the throttle, as will the RCS blocks above. Its a simple way to get linear thrust that can be used over and over again for adjustments.

Edited by Dr.LoveJoy

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On 2/27/2017 at 0:51 PM, Mad Rocket Scientist said:

Alright, got it. It will probably be the flight model then.

What do I need to do to add the engine modes for other fuels to the NERVA's.

Can i just add a config block like this behind the existing LqdHydrogen one in Nerva_Config.cfg?

Spoiler

        CONFIG
        {
            name = NERVA-IM
            exhaustDamage = True
            ignitionThreshold = 0.1
            minThrust = 0 //can't find  a good source, just gonna go with this.
            maxThrust = 455  //Original 334
            
            ignitions = 60
            %ullage = True
            %throttleResponseRate = 0.035 //should be around 30 secs too fully ramp up to 100% from 0%.
            %throttleStartedMult = 0.8
            %throttleStartupMult = 5.0
            
            PROPELLANT
            {
                name = LqdMethane
                ratio = 1.0
                DrawGauge = True
            }
            PROPELLANT
            {
                name = EnrichedUranium
                ratio = 0.00000000001
            }
            atmosphereCurve
            {
                key = 0 606   //Original LH2 825
                key = 1 279   //Original LH2 380
            }
        }

 

Spoiler

//  ==================================================
//  NERVA I global engine configuration.

//  Inert Mass(no radiation shield): 10,117 Kg
//  Throttle Range:             unknown
//  Burn Time: 36000 s (60m max per cycle)
//    Expansion Ratio:    100:1
//    Length(incl extension):    10.11

//  Sources:
//       http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19920001919.pdf
//       http://fas.org/nuke/space/nerva-spec.pdf
//       http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20140008805.pdf
//  Used by:
//        Squad
//
//  ==================================================

@PART[*]:HAS[#engineType[NERVA]]:FOR[RealismOverhaulEngines]
{
    @title = NERVA I
    @manufacturer = Aerojet
    @description = 1970s low TWR vacuum engine. the NERVA (Nuclear Engine for Rocket Vehicle Applications) is designed for orbital tugs and large rocket upper stages. Diameter: [1.25 m].
    
    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleEngineConfigs
        type = ModuleEngines
        configuration = NERVA-I
        modded = false
        
        origMass = 10.117
        CONFIG
        {
            name = NERVA-I
            exhaustDamage = True
            ignitionThreshold = 0.1
            minThrust = 0 //can't find  a good source, just gonna go with this.
            maxThrust = 334
            
            ignitions = 60
            %ullage = True
            %throttleResponseRate = 0.35 //should be around 30 secs too fully ramp up to 100% from 0%.
            %throttleStartedMult = 0.8
            %throttleStartupMult = 5.0
            
            PROPELLANT
            {
                name = LqdHydrogen
                ratio = 1.0
                DrawGauge = True
            }
            PROPELLANT
            {
                name = EnrichedUranium
                ratio = 0.00000000001
            }
            atmosphereCurve
            {
                key = 0 825
                key = 1 380
            }
        }
        CONFIG
        {
            name = NERVA-IM
            exhaustDamage = True
            ignitionThreshold = 0.1
            minThrust = 0 //can't find  a good source, just gonna go with this.
            maxThrust = 455  //Original 334
            
            ignitions = 60
            %ullage = True
            %throttleResponseRate = 0.035 //should be around 30 secs too fully ramp up to 100% from 0%.
            %throttleStartedMult = 0.8
            %throttleStartupMult = 5.0
            
            PROPELLANT
            {
                name = LqdMethane
                ratio = 1.0
                DrawGauge = True
            }
            PROPELLANT
            {
                name = EnrichedUranium
                ratio = 0.00000000001
            }
            atmosphereCurve
            {
                key = 0 606   //Original LH2 825
                key = 1 279   //Original LH2 380
            }
        }
    }
    MODULE
    {
        name                   = ModuleResourceConverter
        ConverterName           = Turbine Generator
        StartActionName           = Start
        StopActionName           = Stop
        AlwaysActive           = true
        FillAmount               = 1.000
        AutoShutdown           = false
        GeneratesHeat           = false
        TemperatureModifier       = 2.000
        UseSpecializationBonus = false
        DefaultShutoffTemp       = 0.500

        INPUT_RESOURCE
        {
            ResourceName = EnrichedUranium
            Ratio         = 1e-13
        }

        OUTPUT_RESOURCE
        {
            ResourceName = ElectricCharge
            Ratio         = 1.500
        }

        OUTPUT_RESOURCE
        {
            ResourceName = DepletedUranium
            Ratio         = 1e-13
        }
    }

    RESOURCE
    {
        name = EnrichedUranium
        amount = 5
        maxAmount = 5
    }
    RESOURCE
    {
        name = DepletedUranium
        amount = 0
        maxAmount = 5
    }
    
    @MODULE[ModuleGimbal]
    {
        %gimbalRange = 3
        %useGimbalResponseSpeed = true
        %gimbalResponseSpeed = 16
    }
    !MODULE[ModuleAlternator]
    {
    }
    !RESOURCE[ElectricCharge]
    {
    }
}
// http://www.alternatewars.com/BBOW/Space_Engines/NERVA_PV.png
@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleEngineConfigs]:HAS[@CONFIG[NERVA-I]],!MODULE[TestFlightInterop]]:BEFORE[zTestFlight]
{
    TESTFLIGHT
    {
        name = NERVA-I
        ratedBurnTime = 36000 // 10 hours
        explicitDataRate = True
        ignitionReliabilityStart = 0.99
        ignitionReliabilityEnd = 0.999997
        ignitionDynPresFailMultiplier = 0.1
        cycleReliabilityStart = 0.999
        cycleReliabilityEnd = 0.999997
        reliabilityMidV = 0.8
        reliabilityMidH = 0.1
        reliabilityMidTangentWeight = 0
        reliabilityDataRateMultiplier = 100 // due to the burn time
    }
}

 

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19910012833.pdf

see page 125 for a nice concise table of Mars atmospheric alternates.

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@Bornholio It seems that you have already made all the necessary changes. The global engine config that you posted is correct. The additional engine configs will need TF support but that can be left out for a future update.

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9 hours ago, Phineas Freak said:

@Bornholio It seems that you have already made all the necessary changes. The global engine config that you posted is correct. The additional engine configs will need TF support but that can be left out for a future update.

OK.  I'll look into the test flight mod deeper once I get my changes tested.

They seem to have a hard time with MJ dV calculation and startup. The long ramp up also plays havoc with maneuvers.  My recollection of Rover test videos was that the engine could throttle pretty fast.  Kiwi only needed 1-2 seconds to throttle up.  XE Tests had startup bootstraps of 11-12 seconds (casi.ntrs.nasa.gov doc 19920005899) Assuming this image is the 30 second windup source.  (alternatewars is a common internet source)

NERVA-II_Startup_Shutdown.gif

The modified Kiwi-TNT only needed ms to throttle. /smirk 

 

Edited by Bornholio
add source image

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3 hours ago, Bornholio said:

They seem to have a hard time with MJ dV calculation and startup.

Yea...the "engineResponseSpeed" parameter does not play well (if at all) with MJ.

3 hours ago, Bornholio said:

Kiwi only needed 1-2 seconds to throttle up.  XE Tests had startup bootstraps of 11-12 seconds

The difference in the throttle-up times is probably because of the propellants used: The early KIWI series used gaseous hydrogen while the XE series used liquid hydrogen. I imagine that you do not want to dump supercold LH2 into a reactor chamber that has a core temperature of over 2500 K!

As i see from later (LH2) variants of the KIWI series they have comparable spool-up times. Some of that is also caused by the reactor control system and the actual power test profiles.

Additionaly, the turbopumps. The XE test articles used flight-like hardware (IIRC they used the turbopump from an RL10A-3 engine) and these have defined spool-up and down times.

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Modified NERVA_Config.cfg  adding [Methane, CH4] and [Water, H2O] engine configurations.

Spoiler

//  ==================================================
//  NERVA I global engine configuration.

//  Inert Mass(no radiation shield): 10,117 Kg
//  Throttle Range:             unknown
//  Burn Time: 36000 s (60m max per cycle)
//    Expansion Ratio:    100:1
//    Length(incl extension):    10.11

//  Sources:
//       http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19920001919.pdf
//       http://fas.org/nuke/space/nerva-spec.pdf
//       http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20140008805.pdf
//       https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19920005899.pdf //added
//
//        Alternate ISP insitu fuel sources
//       https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19910012833.pdf //added
//
//  Used by:
//        Squad
//
//  ==================================================

@PART[*]:HAS[#engineType[NERVA]]:FOR[RealismOverhaulEngines]
{
    @title = NERVA I
    @manufacturer = Aerojet
    @description = 1970s low TWR vacuum engine. the NERVA (Nuclear Engine for Rocket Vehicle Applications) is designed for orbital tugs and large rocket upper stages. Diameter: [1.25 m].
    
    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleEngineConfigs
        type = ModuleEngines
        configuration = NERVA-I
        modded = false
        
        origMass = 10.117
        CONFIG
        {
            name = NERVA-I
            exhaustDamage = True
            ignitionThreshold = 0.1
            minThrust = 0 //can't find  a good source, just gonna go with this.
            maxThrust = 334            // Derived 1550MW.  3060Tc Pc/Pe 38.6 (EX reference) ~36kg/s
            
            ignitions = 60
            %ullage = True
            %throttleResponseRate = 0.035 //should be around 30 secs too fully ramp up to 100% from 0%.
            %throttleStartedMult = 0.8
            %throttleStartupMult = 5.0
            
            PROPELLANT
            {
                name = LqdHydrogen
                ratio = 1.0
                DrawGauge = True
            }
            PROPELLANT
            {
                name = EnrichedUranium
                ratio = 0.00000000001
            }
            atmosphereCurve
            {
                key = 0 825
                key = 1 380
            }
        }
        CONFIG
        {
            name = NERVA-IM
            exhaustDamage = True
            ignitionThreshold = 0.1
            minThrust = 0 //Nerva EX ran at <0.1% Power in testing startup phases
            maxThrust = 495  //Original 334  Derived 1550MW.  3060Tc
            
            ignitions = 60
            %ullage = True
            %throttleResponseRate = 0.035 //should be around 30 secs too fully ramp up to 100% from 0%.
            %throttleStartedMult = 0.8
            %throttleStartupMult = 5.0
            
            PROPELLANT
            {
                name = LqdMethane
                ratio = 1.0
                DrawGauge = True
            }
            PROPELLANT
            {
                name = EnrichedUranium
                ratio = 0.00000000001
            }
            atmosphereCurve
            {
                key = 0 575   //Original LH2 825, Using 3060K  Better Thermal transfer, High Dissociation rate  IDEAL = 606@2800K, 625@3000K, 644@3200K
                key = 1 303   //Original LH2 380, using elevated pressure value 10:1
            }
        }
        CONFIG
        {
            name = NERVA-IW
            exhaustDamage = True
            ignitionThreshold = 0.1
            minThrust = 0 // Nerva EX ran at <0.1% Power in testing startup phases
            maxThrust = 798  //Original 334  Derived 1550MW.  3060Tc
            
            ignitions = 15  // Oxygen corrosion from disassociated water likely to abrade coating faster than Hydrogen/Methane
            %ullage = True
            %throttleResponseRate = 0.07 //should be around 15 secs too fully ramp up to 100% from 0%. Higher Thermal conductivity
            %throttleStartedMult = 0.8
            %throttleStartupMult = 5.0
            
            PROPELLANT
            {
                name = Water
                ratio = 1.0
                DrawGauge = True
            }
            PROPELLANT
            {
                name = EnrichedUranium
                ratio = 0.00000000001
            }
            atmosphereCurve
            {
                key = 0 346   //Original LH2 825  , Using 3060K Temp Value.  Moderately low disassociation. Awesome Thermal capacity.  IDEAL = 283@2800K, 393@3000K, 418@3200K
                key = 1 258   //Original LH2 380  , using elevated pressure value 10:1
            }
        }
    }
    MODULE
    {
        name                   = ModuleResourceConverter
        ConverterName           = Turbine Generator
        StartActionName           = Start
        StopActionName           = Stop
        AlwaysActive           = true
        FillAmount               = 1.000
        AutoShutdown           = false
        GeneratesHeat           = false
        TemperatureModifier       = 2.000
        UseSpecializationBonus = false
        DefaultShutoffTemp       = 0.500

        INPUT_RESOURCE
        {
            ResourceName = EnrichedUranium
            Ratio         = 1e-13
        }

        OUTPUT_RESOURCE
        {
            ResourceName = ElectricCharge
            Ratio         = 1.500
        }

        OUTPUT_RESOURCE
        {
            ResourceName = DepletedUranium
            Ratio         = 1e-13
        }
    }

    RESOURCE
    {
        name = EnrichedUranium
        amount = 5
        maxAmount = 5
    }
    RESOURCE
    {
        name = DepletedUranium
        amount = 0
        maxAmount = 5
    }
    
    @MODULE[ModuleGimbal]
    {
        %gimbalRange = 3
        %useGimbalResponseSpeed = true
        %gimbalResponseSpeed = 16
    }
    !MODULE[ModuleAlternator]
    {
    }
    !RESOURCE[ElectricCharge]
    {
    }
}
// http://www.alternatewars.com/BBOW/Space_Engines/NERVA_PV.png
@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleEngineConfigs]:HAS[@CONFIG[NERVA-I]],!MODULE[TestFlightInterop]]:BEFORE[zTestFlight]
{
    TESTFLIGHT
    {
        name = NERVA-I
        ratedBurnTime = 36000 // 10 hours
        explicitDataRate = True
        ignitionReliabilityStart = 0.99
        ignitionReliabilityEnd = 0.999997
        ignitionDynPresFailMultiplier = 0.1
        cycleReliabilityStart = 0.999
        cycleReliabilityEnd = 0.999997
        reliabilityMidV = 0.8
        reliabilityMidH = 0.1
        reliabilityMidTangentWeight = 0
        reliabilityDataRateMultiplier = 100 // due to the burn time
    }
        TESTFLIGHT
    {
        name = NERVA-IM
        ratedBurnTime = 18000 // 5 hours Carburized materials & Soot generation
        explicitDataRate = True
        ignitionReliabilityStart = 0.99
        ignitionReliabilityEnd = 0.999997
        ignitionDynPresFailMultiplier = 0.1
        cycleReliabilityStart = 0.999
        cycleReliabilityEnd = 0.999997
        reliabilityMidV = 0.8
        reliabilityMidH = 0.1
        reliabilityMidTangentWeight = 0
        reliabilityDataRateMultiplier = 100 // due to the burn time
    }
        TESTFLIGHT
    {
        name = NERVA-IW
        ratedBurnTime = 7200 // 2 hours  Free Oxygen corrosion.
        explicitDataRate = True
        ignitionReliabilityStart = 0.99
        ignitionReliabilityEnd = 0.999997
        ignitionDynPresFailMultiplier = 0.1
        cycleReliabilityStart = 0.999
        cycleReliabilityEnd = 0.999997
        reliabilityMidV = 0.8
        reliabilityMidH = 0.1
        reliabilityMidTangentWeight = 0
        reliabilityDataRateMultiplier = 100 // due to the burn time
    }
}

 

Methane should be a multi-mode engine (Hydrogen/Methane) if i can figure out how to do that. It would need a lower thrust hydrogen mode since the nozzle design optimized for methane.

Edited by Bornholio
unintended mass change in config

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11 hours ago, Bornholio said:

Methane should be a multi-mode engine (Hydrogen/Methane) if i can figure out how to do that.

Take a look at the BNTR global engine config. Hint: you will need to use the "ModuleHybridEngine" module to make them switchable in flight.

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Modified NERVAII_config.cfg adding [Methane, CH4] and [Water, H2O] engine configurations. Added some source material notes regarding lower min thrust value change.  Also note that ISP of the original RO config is higher than historical testing (851) but inline with 5000MW test targets had they been able to run more Phoebus tests. Pewee with a smaller nozzle hit 901ISP in testing.

Spoiler

//  ==================================================
//  NERVA II global engine configuration.

//  Mass:                12.94 t
//  Throttle Range:     unknown
//  Burn Time:            unknown
//    Expansion Ratio:    100:1
//    Length:                12.2 m

//  Sources:
//       http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19680009779.pdf
//       http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19920005899.pdf //Overview of Rover Engine tests  Phoebus 2A starting pg 70
//  Used by:
//        SXT
//
//  ==================================================

@PART[*]:HAS[#engineType[NERVAII]]:FOR[RealismOverhaulEngines]
{
    @title          = NERVA II
    @manufacturer = Aerojet
    @description  = A later 70s atomic engine. Relatively low TWR but high ISP and power generation of 4200 MW. Derived from the Phoebus 2A ground demonstrator, tested in 1968.
        
    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleEngineConfigs
        type = ModuleEngines
        configuration = NERVA-II
        modded = false
        origMass = 12.94

        CONFIG
        {
            name = NERVA-II
            exhaustDamage = True
            ignitionThreshold = 0.1
            heatProduction = 100
            minThrust = 260 //a bit of throttle, no sources  (Modified from 11.4.1 Run 1 2000MW, Run 2 4082MW >4000 for 12.5minutes, Run 3 1280MW, Run 4 3430MW  Tested run peaks 30%)
            maxThrust = 867 //195000 lbf of thrust
            
            ignitions = 60
            %ullage = True
            %throttleResponseRate = 0.035 //should be around 30 secs too fully ramp up to 100% from 0%.
            %throttleStartedMult = 0.8
            %throttleStartupMult = 5.0
            
            PROPELLANT
            {
                name = LqdHydrogen
                ratio = 1.0
                DrawGauge = True
            }
            PROPELLANT
            {
                name = EnrichedUranium
                ratio = 0.00000000001
            }
            atmosphereCurve
            {
                key = 0 950
                key = 1 680
            }
        }
        CONFIG
        {
            name = NERVA-IIM
            exhaustDamage = True
            ignitionThreshold = 0.1
            minThrust = 0 //Nerva EX ran at <0.1% Power in testing startup phases
            maxThrust = 1285  //Original 867*2.595 (scaled)
            
            ignitions = 60
            %ullage = True
            %throttleResponseRate = 0.035 //should be around 30 secs too fully ramp up to 100% from 0%.
            %throttleStartedMult = 0.8
            %throttleStartupMult = 5.0
            
            PROPELLANT
            {
                name = LqdMethane
                ratio = 1.0
                DrawGauge = True
            }
            PROPELLANT
            {
                name = EnrichedUranium
                ratio = 0.00000000001
            }
            atmosphereCurve
            {
                key = 0 632   //Original LH2 950, Using 3200K  Better Thermal transfer, High Dissociation rate  IDEAL = 606@2800K, 625@3000K, 644@3200K
                key = 1 349   //Original LH2 680, using elevated pressure value 10:1
            }
        }
        CONFIG
        {
            name = NERVA-IIW
            exhaustDamage = True
            ignitionThreshold = 0.1
            minThrust = 0 // Nerva EX ran at <0.1% Power in testing startup phases
            maxThrust = 2071  //Original 867*2.595 (scaled)
            
            ignitions = 15  // Oxygen corrosion from disassociated water likely to abrade coating faster than Hydrogen/Methane
            %ullage = True
            %throttleResponseRate = 0.07 //should be around 15 secs too fully ramp up to 100% from 0%. Higher Thermal conductivity
            %throttleStartedMult = 0.8
            %throttleStartupMult = 5.0
            
            PROPELLANT
            {
                name = Water
                ratio = 1.0
                DrawGauge = True
            }
            PROPELLANT
            {
                name = EnrichedUranium
                ratio = 0.00000000001
            }
            atmosphereCurve
            {
                key = 0 401   //Original LH2 950  , Using 3200 Temp Value.  Moderately low disassociation. Awesome Thermal capacity.  IDEAL = 283@2800K, 393@3000K, 418@3200K
                key = 1 284   //Original LH2 680  , using elevated pressure value 10:1
            }
        }
    }
    MODULE
    {
        name                   = ModuleResourceConverter
        ConverterName           = Turbine Generator
        StartActionName           = Start
        StopActionName           = Stop
        AlwaysActive           = true
        FillAmount               = 1.000
        AutoShutdown           = false
        GeneratesHeat           = false
        TemperatureModifier       = 2.000
        UseSpecializationBonus = false
        DefaultShutoffTemp       = 0.500

        INPUT_RESOURCE
        {
            ResourceName = EnrichedUranium
            Ratio         = 3.1e-13
        }

        OUTPUT_RESOURCE
        {
            ResourceName = ElectricCharge
            Ratio         = 4.65
        }

        OUTPUT_RESOURCE
        {
            ResourceName = DepletedUranium
            Ratio         = 3.1e-13
        }
    }
    
    RESOURCE
    {
        name = EnrichedUranium
        amount = 15
        maxAmount = 15
    }
    RESOURCE
    {
        name = DepletedUranium
        amount = 0
        maxAmount = 15
    }
    
    @MODULE[ModuleGimbal]
    {
        %gimbalRange = 3
        %useGimbalResponseSpeed = true
        %gimbalResponseSpeed = 16
    }
    !MODULE[ModuleAlternator]
    {
    }
    !RESOURCE[ElectricCharge]
    {
    }
}

 

I'll do PEWEE derived engine next.  Feel free to submit these or ignore.

I see a very sexy RO 11.5.0 version on CKAN.  Am I hallucinating?

Edited by Bornholio

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Since we're speaking about nuclear engines, is there any RO mod that offers lossless hydrogen storage? There was one a long time ago, probably super outdated at this point. Without something like that, interplanetary is ridiculously heavy. And heavily limited by a lack of appropriate engines; because nobody tought on that scale (yay for 3xM1 powered ejection stage, 8xRD-0120 mars injection stage, followed by 20 engine fine correction stage xD).

And what are good mods for nuclear engines? Porkjet's Atomic Age hasn't been updated in a long while (even if pure partmods tend to be quite stable).

Edited by Temeter

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Hey all, hope this is the right place to ask a question I haven't been able to find an answer for - just updated to the latest RO, with the pre-release RP-0 for 1.2.2. I'm having trouble with heat on EVAs since those upgrades. The moment I send a Kerbal on EVA, they explode due to overheating. Looking at thermal data, my craft is supposedly at safe cool temperatures - 290-300 Kelvin isn't just survivable, it would be a beautiful spring day on the surface, so I can't imagine it would cause immediate Kerbal combustion. Anybody run into a glitch that could cause this? I've observed the same thing on two missions in a row -at first I though I had attempted an EVA too close to reaching orbit and suffered from residual heat, but after waiting hours and days in orbit, the same problem remained, so that's when I went to look for the thermal data. I suspect the problem might have to do with real heat, but I'm fairly new to RO and some of these mods so I'm not sure where to look for more info. Thanks all!

 

rYxaWfg.png

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4 hours ago, Temeter said:

Since we're speaking about nuclear engines, is there any RO mod that offers lossless hydrogen storage? There was one a long time ago, probably super outdated at this point. Without something like that, interplanetary is ridiculously heavy. And heavily limited by a lack of appropriate engines; because nobody tought on that scale (yay for 3xM1 powered ejection stage, 8xRD-0120 mars injection stage, followed by 20 engine fine correction stage xD).

And what are good mods for nuclear engines? Porkjet's Atomic Age hasn't been updated in a long while (even if pure partmods tend to be quite stable).

There is a cryogenic cooling mod but it is stymied by the thermal engine going into analytical mode (past x1000 TW) less speed than that is works well.  Kerbal Atomics is supported by a NF electrics patch and works ok.  Conceptually most of the real world mars studies for NASA are based on a PEWEE derived Bimodal NTR powering a set of Brayton cryocoolers to keep the hydrogen tankage chilled.  Thats why I was happy to see Starwaster make his mode.  Has lots of good formfactors (most of the standard and wraparound panels have a Cryo version in the mod. Porkjet does still work well. 

 

1 hour ago, oltarzewskt1 said:

Hey all, hope this is the right place to ask a question I haven't been able to find an answer for - just updated to the latest RO, with the pre-release RP-0 for 1.2.2. I'm having trouble with heat on EVAs since those upgrades. The moment I send a Kerbal on EVA, they explode due to overheating. Looking at thermal data, my craft is supposedly at safe cool temperatures - 290-300 Kelvin isn't just survivable, it would be a beautiful spring day on the surface, so I can't imagine it would cause immediate Kerbal combustion. Anybody run into a glitch that could cause this? I've observed the same thing on two missions in a row -at first I though I had attempted an EVA too close to reaching orbit and suffered from residual heat, but after waiting hours and days in orbit, the same problem remained, so that's when I went to look for the thermal data. I suspect the problem might have to do with real heat, but I'm fairly new to RO and some of these mods so I'm not sure where to look for more info. Thanks all!

You need the patch from DRE.

On 5/17/2017 at 9:34 PM, Starwaster said:

I'm starting to get an idea of how this might be happening... probably because ModuleAeroReentry isn't initializing properly for Kerbals. Why they're getting singled out I don't have 100% worked out yet but there's a file you can download to fix it. It was going to go in the next update but I've been using it with 7.5.0 which is why I don't have exploding Kerbals, apparently.

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Starwaster/DeadlyReentry/master/DeadlyReentry/DeadlyReentry-KerbalEVA.cfg

Copy that to your DeadlyReentry folder. You might want to take a minute to read its contents because it actually imposes some harsher limits on the Kerbal internal temperatures... namely, their absolute maximum limit is the temperature of boiling water. Their space suits (skin temp) is more resilient and has better emissive and absorptive properties (contrary to popular belief you can have differing values for each)

Edit: I made an edit to it a couple of minutes ago so make sure you have that one, in case you downloaded it while I was editing it.

 

 

 

Edited by Bornholio

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17 minutes ago, Bornholio said:

You need the patch from DRE.

Thank you! I didn't even think of searching for Deadly Reentry because I was in space so I figured it would be something else!

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1 hour ago, Bornholio said:

There is a cryogenic cooling mod but it is stymied by the thermal engine going into analytical mode (past x1000 TW) less speed than that is works well.  Kerbal Atomics is supported by a NF electrics patch and works ok.  Conceptually most of the real world mars studies for NASA are based on a PEWEE derived Bimodal NTR powering a set of Brayton cryocoolers to keep the hydrogen tankage chilled.  Thats why I was happy to see Starwaster make his mode.  Has lots of good formfactors (most of the standard and wraparound panels have a Cryo version in the mod. Porkjet does still work well. 

 

Thanks, that is exactly the mod i was thinking of. Wasn't every it's still active.

Not working in analytical moder sounds like a big issue, though. x1000 should be like 8 hours from earth to mars.

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1 hour ago, Phineas Freak said:

@Bornholio and @Temeter: have you tried the stock radiators with cryogenic tanks? They are OP for keeping cryogenic liquids...liquid.

Oh, does it work now? I think a few years ago those radiators weren't able to actually cool down the tanks; and completely failed in analytic mode.

Guess It's been a very long time I used nuclear engines in RO. Gotta go test stuff!

Edited by Temeter

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Alright, about the findings of my first, short test:

Everything works as you'd wish, at least on my small craft. Stock radiators are OP at cooling; and Starwasters heat pumps seem not to have an RO config, but work fine too.

What surprised me the most was that I didn't lose any hydrogen on max timewarp. That's usually were the old system broke a bit (and really, lots of things act very weird in analytic mode).

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1 hour ago, Temeter said:

I think a few years ago those radiators weren't able to actually cool down the tanks; and completely failed in analytic mode.

I did some tests via a semi - custom part: it used similar stats as the large radiator array but with the part model of the radial radiators. The tank was 10 m x 15 m and filled with LH2 (comparable to the Copernicus NTR stage). At x1000000 about 4 to 6 of them were enough to zero out the boiloff at LEO.

Note that your mileage may vary depending on the environment (LEO or deep space), the propellants (LOX, LH2, LCH4), and the tank size (smaller tanks are worse than larger ones and tanks other than "Cryogenic" and "ServiceModule" are useless).

Edit: ninja'ed! I see that you found it out by yourself!

Edited by Phineas Freak

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