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[Retired] Multipurpose Colony Modules for MKS/OKS (0.4.5)


Angelo Kerman

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I'm really sad to see the configurable greebling go, because I abhor the MKS/OKS palette-swapping with the same base underneath and the horrific 'cages' on all the surface colony stuff. Having the ability to give the various buildings unique-ish silhouettes was what I was looking forward to most with this mod, but i guess all things change :/

On the other hand, I'm super-excited to hear that the watchwords for the update are 'small, light, portable' because the current MKS stuff is obscenely huge and fairly well prevents one from actually playing with it until you unlock the 2.5 meter stuff and even then you have to have overbuilt launchers.

I originally created the mod partly to reduce clutter in the parts catalog, a problem now solved with part categories. I also wanted something that would fit in the KSOS, but now the stock MK3 shuttle parts have plenty of room. And with MKS/OKS gaining stock textures, I don't want MCM to look like a knockoff. That would just diminish the mod IMO.

But change brings with it new opportunities, and small, portable, and light is definitely what I'm aiming for. That will definitely give new life to the mod. If people really want an update to the existing parts, I can always build a legacy parts pack as a separate download.

Angel would you ever consider some sort of surface deployable communication dish to work with Remote Tech?

I don't really use Remote Tech, (I want to try Antenna Range when I finally start playing) but I could see the surface deployable dish serving as a comm link in Antenna Range and RT.

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I originally created the mod partly to reduce clutter in the parts catalog, a problem now solved with part categories. I also wanted something that would fit in the KSOS, but now the stock MK3 shuttle parts have plenty of room. And with MKS/OKS gaining stock textures, I don't want MCM to look like a knockoff. That would just diminish the mod IMO.

But change brings with it new opportunities, and small, portable, and light is definitely what I'm aiming for. That will definitely give new life to the mod. If people really want an update to the existing parts, I can always build a legacy parts pack as a separate download.

I think the difference in design options and textures, along with your obvious love of MKS/OKS, would make it clear to anyone that the mod isn't "just a knockoff," but I understand the concerns.

A legacy parts pack would be great, I do really like the MCM aesthetic.

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I'm really sad to see the configurable greebling go, because I abhor the MKS/OKS palette-swapping with the same base underneath and the horrific 'cages' on all the surface colony stuff. Having the ability to give the various buildings unique-ish silhouettes was what I was looking forward to most with this mod, but i guess all things change :/

While I get you don't like the models - there's probably a lot nicer way of saying you prefer something else, eh? Side note. Those 'horrific cages' are there because the parts are modeled off of the mars DRM 3.0 concept art.

On the other hand, I'm super-excited to hear that the watchwords for the update are 'small, light, portable' because the current MKS stuff is obscenely huge and fairly well prevents one from actually playing with it until you unlock the 2.5 meter stuff and even then you have to have overbuilt launchers.

That, also, is kinda the point of MKS/OKS - meaning, full blown colonization is something fairly deep in the tech tree, and it's hard. And you should be landing this stuff with 2.5m+ parts, and struggling with it since it's meant to be an end game challenge.

If that's not your bag, just pick up a greenhouse mod (bear in mind the entire reason I made the mod was because I felt the current options made closed loop too trivial). That being said, MKS bits in tiny packages aren't MKS, they are something else. Though the idea of a parts pack that supplements things (storage modules, portable infrastructure components, etc.) is a nifty idea.

(Edit) Note that the above is my opinion, and kinda the vision for the mod. Hence, it would be weird for something to spin-off and deviate from said vision and be 'MKS' (as opposed to something that extends it). - Folks are welcome to have their own vision - it's why we have warp drives or RO/RSS, TACLS or snacks, MKS/OKS or one of the many greenhouse parts. So if you want MKS that is not MKS... then you want something else, and what you want is not MKS nor should it be called MKS ;)

A counter-example would be the various Karbonite spinoffs - if I see an alternate Karbonite engine, I have a very good idea of how it will behave and perform, and will likely see red and orange pinstriping - despite how many people express that they would prefer Karbonite in grey and white ;)

Edited by RoverDude
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And with MKS/OKS gaining stock textures, I don't want MCM to look like a knockoff. That would just diminish the mod IMO.

My issue isn't so much the stockalike-ness (although I'm stoked it's now an option) but rather the fact that pretty much every landed base component is precisely the same model. Your mod allowed actual diversity in the greebling of buildings, where RoverDude just slaps a new coat of paint on the Pioneer and calls it the Aeroponics Module. There's no actual *architectural* variation which is almost completely at odds with the vanilla game.

By way of a for instance, take a look at the 2.5 meter stock fuel tanks; every single one is a unique model that has a distinct silhouette. Same goes for the engines! There are 'families' to the parts to be sure, but you can tell without needing to rightclick on the part which one's the T-30 and which the T-45. Distinction matters, and your mod brought distinction to MKS.

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Actually, all of the bits used to have unique models before they got a larger refresh (as it stands, three Mk-II's share a model and the PDU is unique). The intent is in a future refresh to give each a unique model, but my impression (based on this and your SA posts) is that you are not my target audience ;)

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I would also point out that the MCM is essentially just one module- yes with mesh variants- but it's essentially the same look, designed to fit a form factor that isn't essential with 1.0.

I can also see the "camping set" (for lack of a better term right now) being less effective than dedicated modules. So not totally closed loop life support, refineries not as good, etc. They might be something you'd use during survey missions. Combine that with portable infrastructure, and you have a foothold for bringing in the big stuff. Anyway, still thinking about the future direction of the mod, including retirement if no longer relevant or offering something unique. "Space camping" definitely resonates with me though, maybe what I'll do is have light and portable stuff that you'd use to form an initial settlement. Configure the Ponderosa to be a command center, or survey module, or greenhouse, then add the IMW for storage and a couple of MKS hab domes for living space. Maybe the Ponderosa becomes a 3D print shop as well. A small, limited 3D printer lets you build some stuff (akin to NASA's newly announced 3D printed habitat challenge), turning RocketParts into whatever you need-or forgot to bring. A portable mini-drill will slowly extract resources that could be stockpiled for follow-on missions...

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Hence, it would be weird for something to spin-off and deviate from said vision and be 'MKS' (as opposed to something that extends it).

I agree completely! This is why I am posting about my opinions and observations in a thread for a mod that extends MKS but is not MKS. I am glad we are on the same page :-)

While I get you don't like the models - there's probably a lot nicer way of saying you prefer something else, eh?

I admit I phrased myself poorly; in point of fact I do enjoy many of your models! Earlier this very afternoon I was gushing over the design for the OKS PDU to my boyfriend. You're quite the talented modeller, which is why I find it frustrating to no end when you decide to just slap a coat of paint on the exteriors of a few modules and call it a day. I am very excited indeed to hear that you are going for a full model refresh to add individuality to every part; I foresee O/MKS as being as staple to my KSP experience as KA/IS and KER.

In the meantime I am pleased as punch that somebody else has already taken the time to make mesh variants as an extension, which again is why I am posting in this thread (which is dedicated to them) and not in yours (which is dedicated to your vision).

I can also see the "camping set" (for lack of a better term right now) being less effective than dedicated modules. So not totally closed loop life support, refineries not as good, etc. They might be something you'd use during survey missions. Combine that with portable infrastructure, and you have a foothold for bringing in the big stuff. [...] "Space camping" definitely resonates with me though, maybe what I'll do is have light and portable stuff that you'd use to form an initial settlement. Configure the Ponderosa to be a command center, or survey module, or greenhouse, then add the IMW for storage and a couple of MKS hab domes for living space. Maybe the Ponderosa becomes a 3D print shop as well. A small, limited 3D printer lets you build some stuff (akin to NASA's newly announced 3D printed habitat challenge), turning RocketParts into whatever you need-or forgot to bring. A portable mini-drill will slowly extract resources that could be stockpiled for follow-on missions...

All of this sounds absolutely perfect, and it fits a niche that RoverDude is on record a scarce few posts above as saying they do not wish to fill themselves. All the better if your camping gear can be lifted with 1-meter stuff to further accentuate the complementary nature of your mod!

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Personally i still see the smaller modules having their place perhaps less efficient than their larger cousins-once-removed. the beauty of CC license is seeing what others do with your ideas and to be fair this is called MCM not MKS/OKS, its the same as putting an otterbox case on my iphone. :)

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Personally i still see the smaller modules having their place perhaps less efficient than their larger cousins-once-removed. the beauty of CC license is seeing what others do with your ideas and to be fair this is called MCM not MKS/OKS, its the same as putting an otterbox case on my iphone. :)

Oh no debate - MCS is MCS, but (looking at the thread title) tiny colony parts with an MKS label on them is akin to taking Karbonite parts, painting them green, and calling it Kethane ;) Sure, licenses allow a lot of other things. the idea of adding supplementary parts is pretty nifty, as noted. The idea of replicating functionality in a completely different form factor and putting an MKS label on it would be something entirely different. CC licensing lets us do lots of things. But (at least in KSP land) we tend to temper that with common courtesy.

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Oh no debate - MCS is MCS, but (looking at the thread title) tiny colony parts with an MKS label on them is akin to taking Karbonite parts, painting them green, and calling it Kethane ;) Sure, licenses allow a lot of other things. the idea of adding supplementary parts is pretty nifty, as noted. The idea of replicating functionality in a completely different form factor and putting an MKS label on it would be something entirely different. CC licensing lets us do lots of things. But (at least in KSP land) we tend to temper that with common courtesy.

I guess what I'm is it is odd now, 46 pages in to be making a fuss about a style of a mod that admitedly on its first page refers to your mod as awesome and just adding to it. Just seems like pointless white noise, but you are entitled to your opinion, i would worry that it might make developers less inclined to work with your mods if your view is that anything that works with MKS/OKS has to fit your vision, at least that is what "I" am understanding based on your posts, i could be misinterpreting. I just don't want Angels creativity stifled.

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I guess what I'm is it is odd now, 46 pages in to be making a fuss about a style of a mod that admitedly on its first page refers to your mod as awesome and just adding to it. Just seems like pointless white noise, but you are entitled to your opinion, i would worry that it might make developers less inclined to work with your mods if your view is that anything that works with MKS/OKS has to fit your vision, at least that is what "I" am understanding based on your posts, i could be misinterpreting. I just don't want Angels creativity stifled.

You're misinterpreting :)

There are lots of mods that work with MKS, or enhance it in different ways. They just don't call themselves MKS. Much in the same way that I make sure my stuff works well with Near Future, but I don't call any of the parts I do NF. And when I did my EL integration - the second I saw it was causing friction and support issues - I immediately changed how I did it out of respect for Taniwha.

There's no creativity stifling going on - but it would be in the same vein if I released a DSEV that changed up Angel's very excellent DSEV mod by making everything half the mass and twice as efficient... and also called it DSEV ;)

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You're misinterpreting :)

There are lots of mods that work with MKS, or enhance it in different ways. They just don't call themselves MKS. Much in the same way that I make sure my stuff works well with Near Future, but I don't call any of the parts I do NF. And when I did my EL integration - the second I saw it was causing friction and support issues - I immediately changed how I did it out of respect for Taniwha.

There's no creativity stifling going on - but it would be in the same vein if I released a DSEV that changed up Angel's very excellent DSEV mod by making everything half the mass and twice as efficient... and also called it DSEV ;)

you would have to say its for DSEV, to actually do it the way angel has "[Alpha] [.90] Multipurpose Colony Modules for MKS/OKS (0.4.5)"

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you would have to say its for DSEV, to actually do it the way angel has "[Alpha] [.90] Multipurpose Colony Modules for MKS/OKS (0.4.5)"

Sure, but I would maintain that if I made a mod called '[whatever] for DSEV' that essentially replaced all of the parts with something half the size and twice the efficiency, it would be neither DSEV, nor neighborly. But of course 100% within the constraints of the license ;)

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Sure, but I would maintain that if I made a mod called '[whatever] for DSEV' that essentially replaced all of the parts with something half the size and twice the efficiency, it would be neither DSEV, nor neighborly. But of course 100% within the constraints of the license ;)

LOL all I'm saying is its funny to wait till page 46 to have an issue, this mod has been around for awhile and now an accepted part of the community used by users.....so why now?

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Oh - because up until now it's basically been a reskin with some code enhancements, and when I've raised a concern regarding unbalancing stuff vs. the original MKS mod, Angel-123's been pretty cool about it. They are (roughly) the same size/shape/mass, etc. (there was even a note in this thread when the Mk-III's came up because of their different form factor).

But given he's taking this in a new direction into something different, if there's functional overlap with MKS but in a tiny package, it really isn't MKS.

To be clear, this is not about 'artistic vision', just courtesy.

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Oh - because up until now it's basically been a reskin with some code enhancements, and when I've raised a concern regarding unbalancing stuff vs. the original MKS mod, Angel-123's been pretty cool about it. They are (roughly) the same size/shape/mass, etc. (there was even a note in this thread when the Mk-III's came up because of their different form factor).

But given he's taking this in a new direction into something different, if there's functional overlap with MKS but in a tiny package, it really isn't MKS.

To be clear, this is not about 'artistic vision', just courtesy.

I surrender to your unrelenting negativity.

Hey Angel what about some sort of inflatable kitchen or camp stove? keeping with the camping theme?

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The idea of a step between your first lander/orbit and the mks/oks line of colony/station is appealing. Like building a log cabin after your tent instead of a high rise. Semi permanent expeditionary structures and kis storable, nice.

As for the argument above, no I don't think they should be comparable in efficiency or output to full sized colony's, and I don't think that was the original intent. Poor angel is gonna see all this and be like "what?".

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The idea of a step between your first lander/orbit and the mks/oks line of colony/station is appealing. Like building a log cabin after your tent instead of a high rise. Semi permanent expeditionary structures and kis storable, nice.

As for the argument above, no I don't think they should be comparable in efficiency or output to full sized colony's, and I don't think that was the original intent. Poor angel is gonna see all this and be like "what?".

LOL exactly, and i totally agree maybe some decreased efficiency

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Sure, but I would maintain that if I made a mod called '[whatever] for DSEV' that essentially replaced all of the parts with something half the size and twice the efficiency, it would be neither DSEV, nor neighborly. But of course 100% within the constraints of the license ;)

You are correct! Fortunately, this is categorically NOT the direction Angel has expressed an interest in heading. In fact, Angel has explicitly stated they are interested in smaller things that are LESS efficient than 'stock' O/MKS. I am so glad we are all agreeing today that Angel's ideas are completely appropriate and explicitly not O/MKS but rather an extension for same :-)

I am also very pleased that we have collectively acknowledged the fact that Angel is not at all bound by anything but the barest shroud of courtesy when making their expansion mod because RoverDude made the supremely community-positive decision to release O/MKS under an A-NC-SA CC license and Angel is thus perfectly within their rights to make their expansion (which again is clearly not O/MKS but rather a distinct yet non-standalone work) as gimped or hulked as they see fit.

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Jebus, I go spend quality family time and all heck breaks lose. Let me be clear, right now I am brainstorming ideas on a direction for this mod, if any. One direction is retiring it altogether, which I'm ok with. Multipurpose Colony Modules served a need at a time when we had no custom part categories, no Mk3 space plane parts, and at that time, MKS/OKS didn't have stock textures. All that has changed and change is good. Change happened before with this mod, when the Mk3 MKS/OKS modules were introduced. MCM kept with the spirit of RoverDude's mod by offering new efficiency parts.

With 1.0, new change is afoot. Now, I love the idea of space camping, and I may just create a mod to do that as colony modules in small form doesn't fit the spirit of MKS. The new stock converters make that pretty straightforward. It's the kind of thing you might see before sending down a colony.

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