Anyone up for barn raising?

[Franklin]

I mean, seriously:

See-through backface on the roof underside.

http://puu.sh/cI4H2/e70bc56fb0.jpg

Small textures stretched over a massive object.

http://puu.sh/cI4HA/30eb873f7d.jpg

Weird cartoonish plank texture stretched across the terrain with no model.

http://puu.sh/cI4JW/31ae1556c0.jpg

This stuff.

http://puu.sh/cI4NW/967d9f4ac9.jpg

No ambient occlusion, anywhere.

http://puu.sh/cI525/9d05686301.jpg

After bac9's amazing work, it honestly feels like a step back into the art style of version 0.18 .

I really hope these are heavy works in progress...

On the other hand, I do really like the "patchwork" rough roads, it's just the stuff that is filling them.

http://puu.sh/cI4Mg/73d68d1aee.jpg

Yeah, I kinda saw this coming after the admin centre. The current centre was modeled by bac9, who did a great job and understands atlas standardization and is a great modeller. When the admin centre dropped a number of modellers noticed it didn't seem to be made with the same standardization, and bac9 actually responded before the patch with change recommendations, but they were ignored. So some of us didn't have hope that the new models would be up to the same standard.

I wish Squad would contract bac9 more, he raised the bar high enough that the new models being produced (SP+ notwithstanding, that's not Squad) are amateur in comparison.

edit: We can look forward to similar recommendations being ignored this time around,

On a less facetious note, I have no problem with the idea of starting in a barn and having trailers, but the texture and model work is, to put it mildly, sloppy. I would elaborate, but i'd just make the thread sound like an echo chamber so I'll just link the excellent critiques posted on Reddit and imgur.

http://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/2lpao5/my_thoughts_on_the_kerbal_space_program/

http://i.imgur.com/onpH9fp.jpg

Edited November 10, 2014 by Franklin

[Franklin]

Also as quirky as the new barn models are, I doubt the rocket models are getting a similar tiering, which means it's gonna be jarring to be building sleek, MK2 spaceplanes out of farmer bob's poorly-modeled tool shed.

It seems like an odd artistic angle to take if they're only taking it with the buildings.

[Guest]

I think that the building are fine. What needs changing is the early tech tree. The KSC buildings look like early 20th century facilities (though instead of a barn, an old factory look could've been better), but the tech doesn't reflect this. Instead of early 60s tech, we should be getting Goddard-era materials with which we'd reinvent the V2 and work our way up to space. Oh, and once again, it should not look shoddy. This was what passed for "cutting edge research facility" back then.

[CaptainKipard]

Squad could you please expose those assets so that modders can replace them?

[Franklin]

Or at very least make use of the model fixes being recommended here and on Reddit. You've made a game that has a surprisingly large modelling community, don't waste the resource.

[Alizerin]

I positively love the new designs. I think it's funny. I'm not sure I would upgrade these.

These are Kerbals we're talking about. Let the junkyards be upgradable to something basic which can be upgradable to more advanced stuff (like the current buildings now).

[K77LostNSpace]

Reading over these post and made me think about the upgrade of the VAB and tech tree. What if they could make a special tech tree for each version of the VAB? have to upgrade in order to research different parts.

Example: First version of the Space Center, the tech tree only includes plane parts and basic rockets. The Tech tree could be one of a few tabs in the R&D Screen. to get to the next "grayed out" tab you have to upgrade parts of the space center.

[Alshain]

Reading over these post and made me think about the upgrade of the VAB and tech tree. What if they could make a special tech tree for each version of the VAB? have to upgrade in order to research different parts.

Example: First version of the Space Center, the tech tree only includes plane parts and basic rockets. The Tech tree could be one of a few tabs in the R&D Screen. to get to the next "grayed out" tab you have to upgrade parts of the space center.

I think that's the current plan.

[Alguien]

Yes I do know that, and it isn't isolated to just one of them but it was definitely not originated in America, and the "Classic American Red Barn" is not a thing. European was the correct term and what I said is correct, your facetiousness needs a history lesson.

Nobody said red colored farms were invented by americans, just like the apple pie or the statue of liberty, all of them came from Europe but are now associated with America thanks to pop culture.

And for your other post, yes, there are more countries with space programs, some of them do more than NASA does this days, but guess what, if you open KSP you will notice how heavily based is in NASA, not ESA, not CNSA, not CCCP/ROSCOSMOS, not JAXA.

So apply yourself.

[cantab]

I would somewhat dislike K77's suggestion. Simply making VAB upgrades - or any building upgrades - a third requirement for using new parts, or even a fourth if the idea of "need a qualified Kerbal" is implemented, I fear makes too many things to jump through on part unlocks. I'd rather see the VAB affect something else. For example overall rocket size is the obvious thing and would give the player options: go for the VAB upgrade to make big single-launch ships, or work within the limitations by developing small efficient craft or. Or/and general rocket strength might be a logical thing for the VAB to affect: a more sophisticated, sturdier and less flammable building permits using more advanced welding methods.

Upgrading the R&D building, mind you, might well affect the tech tree because what else could it do? But I think that might be a bit better at least anyway: upgrading the building you do your research in to do better research is more intuitive than upgrading the building you make your rockets in to do better research. Alternatively, upgrading R&D could simply make research cheaper in science and/or funds, giving the player the option of spending money now to make savings later, but the full tech tree could still be researched in a caravan if you really wanted.

[Jouni]

It's important to understand that the player space program is not the first space program the kerbals have. Someone else is already launching rockets in large enough volumes that they produce a steady supply of kerbals stranded in orbit. This means that the facilities should be appropriate for a bunch of underdogs with a limited budget, not for a major government space program with the ambitions of being the first kerbals to reach orbit/the Mun/whatever.

[Torquemadus]

The pics imply that the spaceplane shown is spawned on the grass where the future SPH and runway will stand. If so, it would seem that the SPH begins as a simple open airfield and evolves into a hangar and runway later.

One explanation for this is that the tech tree will remain as it currently is, so players will not need a facility for planes at the start of the game.

[SelectHalfling0]

Considering Kerbal philosophy.. that seems 'bout right.

Keep the hilarious and good work up!

[K77LostNSpace]

I can see your point cantab, i was thinking in general terms of extending the game time before maxing the tech tree. similar to other games that use tech tree's like age of empires and civ. but having buildings be part of a prerequisite for what can be built is still on the same lines as having the R&D center upgrades a prerequisite for what tech tree tier you can put science into.

I use these ideas, because it does not require adding values that do not already exist. like part count limit or anything. Just felt it would be a simpler way of integrating building upgrades. Similar to how we did'nt want Kerbals affecting ship parts, we likely don't want buildings doing the same thing.

Edited November 10, 2014 by K77LostNSpace

[Alshain]

The pics imply that the spaceplane shown is spawned on the grass where the future SPH and runway will stand. If so, it would seem that the SPH begins as a simple open airfield and evolves into a hangar and runway later.

I'm not sure about that. These screenshots could be from a dev build or a craft could have been inserted into the persistence file just to get screenshots. You could be right, but we don't know that.

One explanation for this is that the tech tree will remain as it currently is, so players will not need a facility for planes at the start of the game.

That assumes stock. They would be limiting plane part plugins to later tiers. There is no reason firespitter parts can't be earlier, many of those planes look like they were meant to be flown around farms anyway.

[Tw1]

It's important to understand that the player space program is not the first space program the kerbals have.

I disagree. Apart from thee rescue contracts, (which I think come far two early) there isn't too much to suggest that. I think that having a predecessor who has done much detracts from the fun of making a Kerbal the first to land somewhere.

[KSK]

And I honestly vote for adding First Flight by KSK to the official canon, as it is not that different from what is being added to the game, and the background lore for the Kerbals is very creative.

I would be delighted and honoured.

[bigbadben]

I, for one, cannot wait until youtubers get a hold of this update.

We are in for months of hilarity. Just imagine what they can come up with!

Also, I think new players will have a blast exploring KSC with it's new iterations

[19chickens]

I personally oppose adding First Flight to the canon, as it detracts from the feeling of "YES! I FINALLY MADE IT INTO ORBIT!" I'm so bad I have to use MechJeb-it's brilliant to land on the Mun, especially if you're first.

I also want to show you this:

The normal KSC land areas show-it's really jarring and the R&D/Kerbonaut Complex border was really hard to find.

[Alshain]

The normal KSC land areas show-it's really jarring and the R&D/Kerbonaut Complex border was really hard to find.

Maxmaps said in Squadcast that they were working on smoothing the land. These are from a dev build so stuff like that will likely be improved.

[Torquemadus]

Looking at the buildings and thinking about the pace of Career Mode as we currently know it makes me wonder about the role these buildings play and how they will affect the progress of Career Mode gameplay.

The blockhouse building that serves as mission control screams "missile range" to me. We only see the launch pad from a distance, but it looks like little more than a patch of sand with a burn mark on it. I can easily envisage Werhner Von Kerman's team launching the Kerbal equivalent of V2 rockets from here. The sandbags at the blockhouse help to confer the feeling of a military firing range.

The observatory gives a strong feeling of amateur astronomy. The crude construction implies it was built out of whatever spare building materials could be scavenged.

The admin building is particularly telling. It consists of a single prefab hut surrounded by rusting junk. This is their headquarters?! The trailer park living quarters look similarly low budget.

I'm intrigued by the collection of shacks and tanks that seem to represent the early research facility. It looks to me like they're making rocket fuel here. Some of the wooden buildings look like basic workshops, which again implies amateurs.

The runway and hangar are conspicuously not present, which implies we won't be using spaceplanes in the early game.

Looking at the early KSC as a whole, I can easily see them tech level zero "the stuff we started out with" rockets. Thinking about who kerbals are, their equivalent of a V2 rocket probably consists of Jeb in a capsule on top of an RT-10 booster or a basic LV-T30 with a couple of fuel tanks. These parts have been purchased off-the-shelf from aerospace companies and then assembled in the barn, so they don't need to look ramshackle like the KSC does. "The first rule of Amateur Rocket Club is: We never talk about Amateur Rocket Club! The second rule of Amateur Rocket Club is: No smoking near the fuel storage tanks!"

Look at the state of these facilities. Can these kerbals put a satellite into orbit and then track it? Can they put a Kerbal into orbit? The kerbals who run this early KSC are clearly a long way away from undertaking a space program as we like to think of it. Can you imagine president John F Kerman challenging these kerbals to land a kerbal on the Mun by the end of the decade?

Looking at the pictures of the early KSC, it looks like the program has a long way to go in terms of both time and funding before it reaches the point where it can perform a Mun landing. Compare that to the rate at which a current Career Mode save progresses. This could have a huge impact on the way the early game is played.

[Franklin]

Maxmaps said in Squadcast that they were working on smoothing the land. These are from a dev build so stuff like that will likely be improved.

That's good to hear, I've always had similar issues with the odd terrain platforms all the buildings were on. Makes the whole site look that much less organic when it's a barn and dirt roads all on top of an artificial terrain platform.

[briansun1]

And I honestly vote for adding First Flight by KSK to the official canon, as it is not that different from what is being added to the game, and the background lore for the Kerbals is very creative.

I second this. When I saw those pictures for the first time the thing that came to mind first, we right after "that's really cool", was KSK's story.

[SelectHalfling0]

Quick Question: will the building levels limit the size of rockets/parts they use?

[Torquemadus]

I'm not sure about that. These screenshots could be from a dev build or a craft could have been inserted into the persistence file just to get screenshots. You could be right, but we don't know that.

That assumes stock. They would be limiting plane part plugins to later tiers. There is no reason firespitter parts can't be earlier, many of those planes look like they were meant to be flown around farms anyway.

You correctly point out that I'm speculating here. I noticed in the Imgur album that the stock plane shown in the pictures appears to spawn exactly where it should have done if the runway was present. My thinking is that the stock game will not offer spaceplane parts at tech level zero, but might offer some kind of airfield so that modders can still provide tech level zero plane parts if they want to. Propeller driven planes taking off from an airfield is easy to imagine.

My personal view of spaceplanes in KSP is that Kerbals already knew how to make airplanes, but it took them a while to figure out how to make wings that could withstand re-entry and thus be useful to the space program.