Felger

[1.1.2] Realism Overhaul v11.0.0 May 8

Recommended Posts

What I keep running into and then thinking I have it solved is being consistent with my launches. Sometimes, Ill have 1-200 dv left after I reach the desired orbit and other time I have as much as 500. A few times I might not even reach orbit at all. This is even with the exact same launch vehicle. I then may have to build a different Lv to support a different mission and it seems to make things even more variable despite trying to align the dv and twr of the stages as close to identical to my original craft as possible.

Consulting all the launch guides and advice I try to stick with a two stage lv with 4500/4500 delta-v for my launches and then when I have additional stages for after launch burns I just stick those on the top like a payload and maintain the twr and delta-v of the first two stages. I have a problem with having an extra 500 ms of fuel left over after I achieve orbit. That seems like so much of a waste and it just bothers me. Similarly I have an issue of not making orbit at all despite using all of my fuel (of course). When I have additional stages intended to be fired after I achieve orbit (like placing geostationary satellites) It just feels "wrong" jettisoning a tank with 500 ms of fuel left so that you can more accurately obtain the correct heading with rcs without having a big unwieldy, and mostly empty tank still attached to the back. I guess I still have not completely learned the effect of the variables in my ascent.

Perfectly placing a geostationary satellite is one of my ultimate goals and it seems like it should be a lot easier. If you look at my post history you can see the subject brought up multiple times. Each time I do I get an answer and I think Ive got it but then I come back and I just have more questions.

Edited by Bender222

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What I keep running into and then thinking I have it solved is being consistent with my launches. Sometimes, Ill have 1-200 dv left after I reach the desired orbit and other time I have as much as 500. A few times I might not even reach orbit at all. This is even with the exact same launch vehicle. I then may have to build a different Lv to support a different mission and it seems to make things even more variable despite trying to align the dv and twr of the stages as close to identical to my original craft as possible.

Consulting all the launch guides and advice I try to stick with a two stage lv with 4500/4500 delta-v for my launches and then when I have additional stages for after launch burns I just stick those on the top like a payload and maintain the twr and delta-v of the first two stages. I have a problem with having an extra 500 ms of fuel left over after I achieve orbit. That seems like so much of a waste and it just bothers me. Similarly I have an issue of not making orbit at all despite using all of my fuel (of course). When I have additional stages intended to be fired after I achieve orbit (like placing geostationary satellites) It just feels "wrong" jettisoning a tank with 500 ms of fuel left so that you can more accurately obtain the correct heading with rcs without having a big unwieldy, and mostly empty tank still attached to the back. I guess I still have not completely learned the effect of the variables in my ascent.

Perfectly placing a geostationary satellite is one of my ultimate goals and it seems like it should be a lot easier. If you look at my post history you can see the subject brought up multiple times. Each time I do I get an answer and I think Ive got it but then I come back and I just have more questions.

Your DV remaining from your original craft you say is anywhere from 1-500 DV. If you are using Procedural Tanks, and are upset at having extra DV, after orbit, try to remove some fuel from your second stage. This will provide more DV in your first stage, and may help you feel like you are not wasting fuel on orbit. Also the mass of your payload, and fairing size will change your DV as a bigger fairing will need more thrust to push through the atmosphere and a lighter payload will have you left with extra DV with final Orbit insertion. Real world launchers are chosen for the mass they can put to orbit/GTO/Transfer

and they will have extra fuel left in the tanks almost always, so don't feel too bad about the waste as long as your mission goal was achieved.

Your second question regarding using the same DV launch vehicles, you must also take into account your (burntime) along with your TWR and DV. You can have a second stage with a TWR of .80 that will burn for 15 minutes, which will require a lot of off velocity vector thrusting.

You can also place RCS on your (Big/Unwieldy) stage to help orbit maneuvers. And in RSS you don't have to change headings in 3 secs, turn stability off thrust in the direction of heading change and alt-period time warp. You will see that a little thrust will move big objects, slowly

To get to GSO. Try to design a launch vehicle with around 16000km, you will need around 9.5 for orbit, around 2.5k for GTO, and will the left over DV you will burn for inclination change and orbit insertion. You will have fuel left over if done correctly, I just want to make sure you get there

Launch your rocket into orbit. Create a node at equatorial AN/DN if you are not using any kind of flight software (KE/Mechjeb) Get it. Make your node so that your apoapsis will be around 35,786 km. This will mean when you hit apoapsis you will be on the earths equatorial plane and traveling around 1600m/s instead of LEO 7.8. At this point your plane change to mirror the equator will be VASTLY cheaper than LEO. You can attempt to burn prograde/normal/anti-normal at the sametime to make your burn more efficient, however if you are just trying to get to GSO. Do your plane change, then do your circularization burn. If you click on the earth, and click on info, you will see that its rotational period is 23 hours 56min 4 sec. when you have completed your circularization burn, use your rcs to fine tune your orbital period to mirror this time. Again you will need (KE/Mechjeb) If you follow these steps you will soon find out that getting to GSO is more of a timewarp pain than anything else. I hope this helps

Edited by Makers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am using mechjeb to display the delta-v and twr of each stage. SO are you saying I should try shifting more fuel to the lower and less in the higher? So, maybe 5000/4500 instead of 4800/4800? If I were to do the GSO insertion would a completely separate stage for the orbital maneuvers be a good idea or should you try to just enlarge the others? As far as GSO goes what I was attempting in .25 was first launch into a parking orbit, create a maneuver node at the DN to raise apoapsis to 35,786 so when you get to apoapsis you should be on the AN and change inclination at the same time you circularize. I was using a maneuver node to do both. but then I would Mess soimething up and reert to retry it and end up not achieving orbit with the designed stages or having a ton of extra fuel. I am thinking I need to work on my ascents. I have never used the mechjeb autopilot but I am starting to use the Smart A.S.S to more precisely control.

It has occurred to me that Having a few more engines to choose from might make it easier for me size stages correctly. As far as I have experienced the limit thrust tweakable does not function in RO. I don't believe Bobcat's soviet engines are updated yet and I dont feel like trying to manually prune the fasa pack for just the engines. Are there any recommendations? preferably integrated into rp-0

Edited by Bender222

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I play with Fasa, the engines only. Trust me when I say that it is worth the time to trim down only to the engines. They are very accurate in looks and the time someone spent to edit them for RO, was time well spent.

I also use KW Rocketry, but trim it down to only the solid rocket boosters, it offers a lot of real world SRB's. Again very accurate and well worth the time someone spent on the config for them

Bobcats engines, I am a little up and down with these. I use them for the fact that they are more efficient than any other Kerolox engines, they have throttle control, and are accurate. However as far as RP0 is concerned they are not quite placed in the tree quite right. You have access to very powerful engines, very early, but they are also very, very expensive and rightfully so. Using one of these as a first stage engine in RP0 is awesome due to throttle control, you can build first stages that will have a max TWR of 10, but can throttle them so you barely reach 5, minutes into a launch. This is important due to the part limits imposed in the vab/launchpad P.S. They work just fine in .90

The tweakable thrust limiter will not work in RP0 with any engine that does not have throttle control. Period. Most early rocket engines are fully on, or fully off. The first rocket engine that had throttle control was the XLR-99 on the X-15 test plane, and only could throttle to 50%.

As far as adjusting your ascents, the only thing I can tell you is to design a rocket with 9.5km DV, launch from the cape, and try to make a 180x180 orbit. try many times, this is what I did, after a few launches you will figure it out.

Your rocket design for GSO is totally up to you. If you want a different stage for every part of your mission, its totally up to you. With the part limits of .90 early career, the only advice I can give is to design a rocket that gets you to orbit with 2 stages, reuse your second stage for burn to GTO, and have your satellite have enough DV to perform the inclination change/circularization. the would mean you only have 3 engines total.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bobcats engines, I am a little up and down with these. I use them for the fact that they are more efficient than any other Kerolox engines, they have throttle control, and are accurate. However as far as RP0 is concerned they are not quite placed in the tree quite right. You have access to very powerful engines, very early, but they are also very, very expensive and rightfully so. Using one of these as a first stage engine in RP0 is awesome due to throttle control, you can build first stages that will have a max TWR of 10, but can throttle them so you barely reach 5, minutes into a launch. This is important due to the part limits imposed in the vab/launchpad P.S. They work just fine in .90

Fairly certain they are not properly supported by RP-0 at all, which is why you have access to them early.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fairly certain they are not properly supported by RP-0 at all, which is why you have access to them early.

Yes, I am aware of this, which is why I don't use the larger engines in my game until I feel like they should be available. However they are patched for RO and add more engines to the game, and as I am playing my game from Russia, I like to use them. Like I said they are about 12x more expensive, so the benefits gained from them, I pay for

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I keep having a problem that whenever i load the VAB, the camera spawns outside the building. I can zoom into the craft, but it takes a while each time. It isn't gamebreaking, but it is very annoying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bug post here, fatal flaw on recent RO release.

I have linux Mint 17 64 bit, fresh-ish OS, fresh install of KSP, only download mods from RO's ckan suggests/rec.'s, etc.

When launching I Either get...

An out of memory exception when on the 'ModuleManager: [FINAL]' stage during the launching of KSP, and it freezes there for a while up to about 4 minutes then closes.

Or I get...

An 'RSS node not found' error, twice, thus RSS does not load and thus texture-wrapping the planets and so on doesn't occur. Picture of this error here...

tM6Dgyf.png

It's rather random on which one but I have many times tried to launch and it always results in one of these two.

I am using KSP.x86_64 to start KSP, so it isn't because half the time i'm starting it in 32 bit mode. As a test I did this deliberately and it just crashes half way through loading parts/textures.

It all went wrong when I updated through CKAN ProceduralTanks and RemoteTech...

use that.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Edited by SamboUK96

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bug post here, fatal flaw on recent RO release.

I have linux Mint 17 64 bit, fresh-ish OS, fresh install of KSP, only download mods from RO's ckan suggests/rec.'s, etc.

When launching I Either get...

An out of memory exception when on the 'ModuleManager: [FINAL]' stage during the launching of KSP, and it freezes there for a while up to about 4 minutes then closes.

Or I get...

An 'RSS node not found' error, twice, thus RSS does not load and thus texture-wrapping the planets and so on doesn't occur. Picture of this error here...

http://i.imgur.com/tM6Dgyf.png

It's rather random on which one but I have many times tried to launch and it always results in one of these two.

I am using KSP.x86_64 to start KSP, so it isn't because half the time i'm starting it in 32 bit mode. As a test I did this deliberately and it just crashes half way through loading parts/textures.

It all went wrong when I updated through CKAN ProceduralTanks and RemoteTech...

use that.

Thanks in advance for any help.

RSS only works with 32bit KSP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RSS only works with 32bit KSP

he's on Linux. It works fine on 64bit linux because KSP Linux x64 works.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have run in to a bug with remote tech not being able to set all the signal home indicated by red dots. but i have seen videos where this has been fixed. dose anyone know how to fixes this problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What does the "toggle descent mode" button on the Mk1-2 Pod do?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello All. I've tried playing RO with RP0+Kethane+KSPI on 0.25 and everything was right (maybe something is over or underpowered, e.g. the only way to use kethane is NERVA engines, because it can't be converted to anything else useful for restartable engines, but who cares, while it is still fun). I was almost ready to start mining kethane at Moon, but then discovered then docking don't work. Well, docking with "NASA Docking Port" part is successful (you can't use timewarp because it adds random offset to poisition and speed, but i don't care and dock without timewarping at last stage), but when i try to undock two ships remains connected and even extreme rotation or throttle can't break their link. And that's a problem. I don't even understand how to disconnect them "manually" by editing savefile, because structure of total vehicle is pretty complex.

Ok, i decided that maybe problem is that i'm playing 0.25 while many mods already switched to 0.90. So i installed 0.90, found a couple of new problems (saving vehicles with procedural SRB is impossible because they have wrong mass after loading and kethane is pretty much incompatible, so i switched to carbonite).

But the main problem remains - undocking is impossible, i've tried it in sandbox game. Sometimes after undocking one of the docking ports explode, and vehicles are displayed as separate "probes", but they are still connected in physical sense and i can't break their link.

Does anybody have same problem with undocking or have ideas of what can cause it?

I'm going to try throwing KSPI off to see if it is casing the bug, but this is unlikely, because vehicles don't have any parts from it.

---

Nevermind. The problem was in Kerbal Joint Reinforcement mod, and was fixed after updating to developer version (that is mentioned on last pages of its thread).

Thanks for the great mod!

Edited by kipar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have run in to a bug with remote tech not being able to set all the signal home indicated by red dots. but i have seen videos where this has been fixed. dose anyone know how to fixes this problem.

To fix this, under the main post there is a spoiler labeled option-b and modlists. It right above the career mode option. You download the remote tech 2 settings file and place it into the remote tech folder, replacing the old one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What does the "toggle descent mode" button on the Mk1-2 Pod do?

Not 100% sure but I think it shifts the center of mass off the part's actual center.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
To fix this, under the main post there is a spoiler labeled option-b and modlists. It right above the career mode option. You download the remote tech 2 settings file and place it into the remote tech folder, replacing the old one.

The rss settings are not ticked by default in ckan so he can just go tick them and install.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quick question. Why is it people use KIDS with RSS/RO? I keep seeing people mention that.. Even Felbourn mentioned he uses KIDS with RSS in one of his Alexandria videos ( of which I am in love with btw ). So, why? I thought that was the whole point of RSS..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Will someone explain to me why my fuel starts draining while using time accelerate in Realism Overhaul?

your cryogenic fuel will boil off over time, eg. anything that says liquid(......). To reduce the amount of boil off use a PT and make sure to set it to cryogenic or balloon cryo, and also I believe service module.

this will not stop boil off, but will slow it down.

The Apollo missions used Cryogenics in the second and third stage of the Saturn 5. The CSM, LEM used hypergolic storable propellants (Aerozine/NTO) which are not susceptible to boil off as hydrogen/oxygen

Edited by Makers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Release 7.0.6!

Changelog:

v7.0.6 -- \/

* Updated ModuleManager to 2.5.9 - Thanks Sarbian!

* Community ISS Configs (No Frills) - Thanks rocketscience!

* Some RCS and resource fixes related to RP-0 - Thanks hattivat!

* Continuing the trend of moving our avionics inside the capsules. - Thanks Agathorn!

* You can find kOS on any command pod or probe

* You can find Telemachus transmitters on any antenna configured for RemoteTech or for stock data transmission.

* Numerous config fixes, should increase stability. - Thanks Agathorn!

* Lionhead Aerospace ESA pack is partially supported (Ariane 6 is unsupported at this time. You can use [AutoPruner](https://github.com/Felger/AutoPruner/releases) to remove it if you like.) - Thanks hattivat!

* Added RemoteTech Tracking Stations to RealismOverhaul release zip. - Thanks NathanKell!

* Added Deep Space Network to the config!

* Updated RCS FX to v3.5 - Thanks NathanKell!

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, I am aware of this, which is why I don't use the larger engines in my game until I feel like they should be available. However they are patched for RO and add more engines to the game, and as I am playing my game from Russia, I like to use them. Like I said they are about 12x more expensive, so the benefits gained from them, I pay for

You know, RP-0 is always looking for contributors, if you felt like putting a couple hours in and configuring those on the tech tree for RP-0, we'd be enormously grateful! just hop on the RO IRC Channel (WebChat) or the RP-0 IRC Channel (WebChat) and we'll get you started!

I keep having a problem that whenever i load the VAB, the camera spawns outside the building. I can zoom into the craft, but it takes a while each time. It isn't gamebreaking, but it is very annoying.

Yeah, this is a known bug. NathanKell is working on a fix, expect a release soon!

Bug post here, fatal flaw on recent RO release.

I have linux Mint 17 64 bit, fresh-ish OS, fresh install of KSP, only download mods from RO's ckan suggests/rec.'s, etc.

When launching I Either get...

An out of memory exception when on the 'ModuleManager: [FINAL]' stage during the launching of KSP, and it freezes there for a while up to about 4 minutes then closes.

Or I get...

An 'RSS node not found' error, twice, thus RSS does not load and thus texture-wrapping the planets and so on doesn't occur. Picture of this error here...

http://i.imgur.com/tM6Dgyf.png

It's rather random on which one but I have many times tried to launch and it always results in one of these two.

I am using KSP.x86_64 to start KSP, so it isn't because half the time i'm starting it in 32 bit mode. As a test I did this deliberately and it just crashes half way through loading parts/textures.

It all went wrong when I updated through CKAN ProceduralTanks and RemoteTech...

use that.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Hmm, that's very odd. I have an almost identical installation on Linux Ubuntu, and I haven't seen anything like that? Could you post an output log? (Saved to: ~/.config/unity3d/Squad/Kerbal\ Space\ Program/Player.log every time the game starts)

I have run in to a bug with remote tech not being able to set all the signal home indicated by red dots. but i have seen videos where this has been fixed. dose anyone know how to fixes this problem.

Make sure you have the RemoteTech settings file, it's linked in the OP.

What does the "toggle descent mode" button on the Mk1-2 Pod do?
Not 100% sure but I think it shifts the center of mass off the part's actual center.

This is correct! Essentially, to control your descent with a capsule you offset your center of mass so that the capsule tilts into the airstream, which gives you lift. Using your RCS thrusters, you can rotate the capsule, and use that lift to steer you to your landing site, or to increase or decrease your rate of descent:

Command_Module_Aerodynamics.png

Quick question. Why is it people use KIDS with RSS/RO? I keep seeing people mention that.. Even Felbourn mentioned he uses KIDS with RSS in one of his Alexandria videos ( of which I am in love with btw ). So, why? I thought that was the whole point of RSS..

Honestly, I'm not sure. I'll have to ask him, it does come as a recommended install with FAR in CKAN, so perhaps that's why some people use it. It isn't necessary with all of Realism Overhaul's Configs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Awesome, thanks for the update! I am installing it right now!

Release 7.0.6!

This is correct! Essentially, to control your descent with a capsule you offset your center of mass so that the capsule tilts into the airstream, which gives you lift. Using your RCS thrusters, you can rotate the capsule, and use that lift to steer you to your landing site, or to increase or decrease your rate of descent:

http://nassp.sourceforge.net/w/images/5/59/Command_Module_Aerodynamics.png

I get confused which way to point my capsule to increase lift and which way to point my capsule to decrease lift and to push my capsule deeper into the atmosphere during re-entry. If I want to increase my lift, and push my capsule higher into the atmosphere, should I point my capsule upwards so the heading marker is in the blue part of my Navball, or do I point my capsule down so the heading marker is in the brown part of the Navball?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awesome, thanks for the update! I am installing it right now!

I get confused which way to point my capsule to increase lift and which way to point my capsule to decrease lift and to push my capsule deeper into the atmosphere during re-entry. If I want to increase my lift, and push my capsule higher into the atmosphere, should I point my capsule upwards so the heading marker is in the blue part of my Navball, or do I point my capsule down so the heading marker is in the brown part of the Navball?

That is basically what you just said on the tin, completely disregarding ballistic reentries, when you point the nose of a conical blunt object (with the top of the object being the nose, or point of the cone, and the bottom being the heat-shield or blunt end.) above the horizon, you angle the blunt side down, and when oncoming gasses hit the blunt side they get push down. this is called lift, and the created force pushes your flight path higher. This is all vice-versa when you point the nose below the horizon. Ultimately reversing the direction of lift, pushing you deeper into the atmosphere. Here is a fantastic relic of a video to watch to help! :P (https://www.youtube.se/watch?v=aW5ozq4Tqew) Skål! :D hope this helps! :)

Now regarding ballistic reentries and lifting reentries, look at this page (http://www.quora.com/In-regards-to-atmospheric-reentry-what-exactly-is-a-ballistic-reentry). It will help greatly, on where to point and what type of reentry you wish to do, keep this in mind when you design your space craft!!

Edited by Briefmoment
Added information.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That is basically what you just said on the tin, completely disregarding ballistic reentries, when you point the nose of a conical blunt object (with the top of the object being the nose, or point of the cone, and the bottom being the heat-shield or blunt end.) above the horizon, you angle the blunt side down, and when oncoming gasses hit the blunt side they get push down. this is called lift, and the created force pushes your flight path higher. This is all vice-versa when you point the nose below the horizon. Ultimately reversing the direction of lift, pushing you deeper into the atmosphere. Here is a fantastic relic of a video to watch to help! :P (https://www.youtube.se/watch?v=aW5ozq4Tqew) Skål! :D hope this helps! :)

Now regarding ballistic reentries and lifting reentries, look at this page (http://www.quora.com/In-regards-to-atmospheric-reentry-what-exactly-is-a-ballistic-reentry). It will help greatly, on where to point and what type of reentry you wish to do, keep this in mind when you design your space craft!!

Thank-you! I love the second link! I will definitely have to check out that video too!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quick question. Why is it people use KIDS with RSS/RO? I keep seeing people mention that.. Even Felbourn mentioned he uses KIDS with RSS in one of his Alexandria videos ( of which I am in love with btw ). So, why? I thought that was the whole point of RSS..

I think using the KIDS "Extend curve to Zero Isp" option is the only way to correct the Isp for atmospheric pressures above 1 atm, like on Venus, Titan, or Jupiter...although if you are trying to return a rocket from low in Jupiter's atmosphere, you're probably going to have a bad day.:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks! I really need some help with this problem. I've been trying to land on the moon, and every time I get close my fuel boils off...leaving me hopelessly stranded in space.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.