The Grand Orbital Space Station Challenge [closed to new entries]

[celem]

Been playing around with RO the past few days, and am finally getting a feel for it. Hopefully a well-considered scoring system for RSS/RO entries will emerge out of all of this. Initial thought is that the launch pad weight penalty needs to go down a little further, to 0.75 or 0.5 per ton on the pad. So far, it takes me a 150 ton rocket just to get a satellite into orbit.

Would agree that it probably needs to go down a bit. 150 ton to hit orbit is waay heavy though so you might be still adjusting to the new designs, maybe your satellite is over heavy. RSS payloads need to be as efficient as possible by leveriging all the overhauls and procedural parts.

Also, you have FAR? Scaled up planets do not work without it, soup-aero for 90km will kill you.

For benchmarking; With all realism mods installed (everything nathankell offers plus) using pre-apollo bootstrap tech as given by the RP-0 career overhaul I can put a 'sputnik' up with the 18 ton pad and 30 part caps. (payload is around 350kg iirc). On the flipside, just getting a man into orbit with enough payload mass for him to deorbit and reenter (and breathe if LS mod) rapidly becomes several tons and a 150 ton padweight.

edit: Something like this works for your basic orbit. This one is 21 ton and 36 parts to put a 287kg payload all the way out to 450x450. (i cant get attitude control and solar and stay under 30). For a tech level reference, this is the most basic non sounding-rocket engines available.

.

By comparison a 1-man service module with 2 months Tac life support and 2.5k dV rocks out around 6 tonnes and takes me nearly 400 ton padweight to orbit with apollo-era tech.

I havent actually done a station yet in RSS, mainly because rendezvous is a good deal harder. Changing inclination at Earth Low Orbit is impossibly expensive so you have to time launches like a boss or learn to dogleg (also like a boss). I've been contemplating putting up a Lunar station where the orbital V is lower. Might be i'll be back with an entry.

Edited March 21, 2015 by celem

[Norcalplanner]

Is this challenge still going on? if so can i assemble a space station in kerbin's SOI then put it into a orbit around a different natural satellite like eloo?

Jaffa Cookie, the challenge is definitely still going on. Assembling a station in LKO and then shipping it somewhere else is fine, as mentioned in the OP. I look forward to your entry!

- - - Updated - - -

Celem, thanks for the info. I optimized things a bit more and am now down to 35 tons for my satellite rocket. I think I'm still putting a bit too much fuel in the satellite itself - old stock KSP habits are hard to break.

[TheXRuler]

Yay, this sounds like a lot of fun, will definetly be entering a station here.

Does it have to be completely newly designed?

I currently am working on a rather massive project and have more or less just started. For the purpose of this challenge I would start a new sandbox save, documenting the launch, rendevousz and docking of all the seperate modules.

Also, would it be possible to semi-assemble sth in say LKO, then send it somewhere else and fully assemble the segments?

It's to be assembled mainly by spaceplane with just the 3.75m parts needing a rocket.

Edit: Also, in which category would you put Umbra Space Industries's [thread=91706]Freight Transport Technologies[/thread].

Edited March 27, 2015 by TheXRuler

[Norcalplanner]

Yay, this sounds like a lot of fun, will definetly be entering a station here.

Does it have to be completely newly designed?

I currently am working on a rather massive project and have more or less just started. For the purpose of this challenge I would start a new sandbox save, documenting the launch, rendevousz and docking of all the seperate modules.

Also, would it be possible to semi-assemble sth in say LKO, then send it somewhere else and fully assemble the segments?

It's to be assembled mainly by spaceplane with just the 3.75m parts needing a rocket.

Edit: Also, in which category would you put Umbra Space Industries's [thread=91706]Freight Transport Technologies[/thread].

TheXRuler,

The station doesn't have to be newly designed, but if you want it to be scored, it needs to have sufficient documentation on how it was launched and assembled as specified in the OP. Reloading a craft and relaunching a duplicate so you can take pictures you missed earlier is fine by me - it's those without such documentation make me wonder if HyperEdit was involved, which sort of defeats the point of the challenge. :-)

On Freight Transport Technologies, it looks like it's on the line between modded and advanced technology division. I see it introduces new nuclear engines - what is their ISP? In general, any modded engine with an ISP over 800 will land the mod in the advanced technology division.

On assembly, as long as the station is either launched in one piece or assembled in space, you're good. When I made my giant station, I toyed with the idea of sending the three pieces to Jool separately and then assembling them there, but ended up just doing it in LKO.

[Columbia]

Ooh, nice challenge!

I'll give it a try. My only problem is keeping it not too heavy..

[TheXRuler]

TheXRuler,

On Freight Transport Technologies, it looks like it's on the line between modded and advanced technology division. I see it introduces new nuclear engines - what is their ISP? In general, any modded engine with an ISP over 800 will land the mod in the advanced technology division.

Ok great, I will get going straight away then.

I'm afraid the Freight Transport Technologies nuclear engine has an ISP of 900. However, as is stated in the op it uses Liquid Hydrogen as fuel. I was wondering if I could not simply provide enough documentation to prove that I did not put any of the Liquid Hydrogen/Karborundum tanks or the Liquid Hydrogen Fueled Nuclear Engines on any of my craft.

[Norcalplanner]

Ok great, I will get going straight away then.

I'm afraid the Freight Transport Technologies nuclear engine has an ISP of 900. However, as is stated in the op it uses Liquid Hydrogen as fuel. I was wondering if I could not simply provide enough documentation to prove that I did not put any of the Liquid Hydrogen/Karborundum tanks or the Liquid Hydrogen Fueled Nuclear Engines on any of my craft.

If you're not using any engines with high ISP, and there are no new significant abilities granted which are OP compared to stock, then I'll consider it a modded division entry. The whole reason for the efficient engines limitation is for when large stations are going to distant locations. If you're just staying in LKO or LMO, then it's not as big a deal.

[Warzouz]

I'm currently building a station around Laythe, mostly because it's such a nice view !

I've fired 13 overfueled missions to Jool. I'm currently aerobrakiong them to Jool then Laythe (it's easier than I thought), I'll assemble them when i've decided which altitude to put the core station.

The goal of the station is to create a base of operation to explore the Jool moons. I want to send enought fuel to refuel each ship 4 times. It's my first mission to Jool.

Parts to be assembled à Laythe (each is a separate launch) :

- Core station (lab, cabins...) (manned)

- RCS tanks + station small tug (unmanned)

- 6 autopropelled Orange tank (delivered full) (unmanned)

- Ferry with Tylo SSTO and Bop SSTO (manned)

- Ferry with Vall SSTO and Pol SSTO (manned)

- Tug for Tylo shipping Laythe SSTO (unmanned)

- Tug for Tylo and secondary Tylo staged lander (unmanned)

- Passenger ship (the rest of the crew).

Total 13 launches

The station is not assembled yet but will probably weight 400T. I've already inserted only 5 out of 13 ships into laythe orbit. I'm not too sure about the station orbit altitude though. I had planned for 70km, but I'm considering 500km as most of the flights will be outward and not to the surface of Laythe. Further more, I think the 500km view is nicer

I launched the passenger ship and the station manually, but used MechJeb for the other ones. I plotted all nodes myself) but executed most of them wit MechJeb (well I letMeckJeb planned the last 6 fuel tanks, but I had to make 500dv corrections after that).

I play KSP for less than a month now, so I feared to not be able to aerobrake twice at Jool and Laythe. So I overfueled my generic two staged rocket. I did part of the last Laythe inclination correction with the last fist stage engine...

Maybe if I dock with the second stage still attached, In could gather more points

My generic heavy launcher is

Second stage : 40T 3800dv (4 LV-N and 4 dumpable LV45 for boost). I can switch to medium to low TWR. This stage weights 50T (I think)

First stage : 100T 6000dv for take-off with reasonable/high TWR. It weights 1000T. As I said : a bit overfueled, I said

I designed a smarter stage before which was able to carry 70T to 90km orbit. But my second stage was only 3 LV-N and i hadn't enought TWR to do a quick escape burst. As I was managing 13 launches (+1 addition Jool probe mission unrelated to the station), I wasn't sure I would be able to handle multiple burst for each escapes. So I oversized everything to make it easier...

Pictures will come when the station is built.

[Columbia]

Are there any modifiers to the score when the station is launched into orbit around the Sun?

[Speeding Mullet]

I grossly underestimated the Delta-v required to hulk something into orbit around Moho. It won't be the last time I do that, but it does mean the crew absolutely wailed past Moho at stunning speed and without a hope, leaving me with an extensive redesign to post an entry.

[Norcalplanner]

Are there any modifiers to the score when the station is launched into orbit around the Sun?

Without more information, it's hard to say. Something between Kerb in and Duna would probably be scored the same as a Duna entry. If you're going lower than Moho or beyond Eeloo, then I'll have to come up with some appropriate multiplier.

- - - Updated - - -

I grossly underestimated the Delta-v required to hulk something into orbit around Moho. It won't be the last time I do that, but it does mean the crew absolutely wailed past Moho at stunning speed and without a hope, leaving me with an extensive redesign to post an entry.

I've done that more than once myself. Moho needs a lot of delta v at a decent Twr, otherwise you just go zipping right by.

[iLikeRovers]

It seems I can't make imgur albums. It fails to upload the pictures. How do you make an imbedded imgur album? *Successfully* make one on imgur and paste the link?

Here's a sneak preview...

[Mister Dilsby]

Here's a sneak preview...

Lol--I believe that gif is well worth turning a gray bar green. Have some rep!

Embed an imgur album like this: [imjur]qwert[/imjur] but spell "imgur" correctly and use the 5-character code in the Imgur album url, for example mWbY8 from http://imgur.com/gallery/mWbY8

Edited April 10, 2015 by Mister Dilsby

[iLikeRovers]

Is anyone else having problems uploading imgur albums? I can upload individual pictures, but not create albums.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

Behold the Dragon Station.

Capable of docking with other stations and tanker craft to form even larger stations with dedicated launch vehicles, science station, habitation, and enough fuel to refuel pretty much any space craft you can imagine including all fuel types... Technically, there are 3 of them in this video...

I will upload craft file when I get home. All stock. They have been to Mun and to Duna and probably have the range to go much further but I've not tried.. yet. Getting that many together, causes a TON of lag btw.

Enough docking access ports to support a fleet of a variety of sized ships from probe to tanker. Docking port approaches are actually color coded by light. Blue for Tankers, Red for Standard, Green for Jr.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Commander Zoom]

Here's my Eve station, in its final configuration:

It masses 128.230 tons (12800), of which 93.793 are the station proper and 34.437 are the dedicated shuttle/tug (1000). It has a science lab (500) and a maximum occupancy of 21 (not counting the Bug's two short-term seats; 4200). It has an actual crew of 2 (200).

The total mass of the launches required to put it there was 2035 tons (at least 5 of which were probes expended earlier in the course of the mission, but I'm not going to quibble; -4070).

By my count, this comes to 14630 points, with a x1.5 multiplier for Eve, giving a final total of 21945 (Modded Division).

I ask if I can get partial credit for a return vehicle, as the Bug is quite capable of returning Arch and Alf to Kerbin (that was one reason why it was included, in case of emergency), but cannot actually land there; given the significant infrastructure in orbit there, including another permanent station, it has no real need to.

And here's how it came to be there:

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(album link) Edited April 11, 2015 by Commander Zoom

[iLikeRovers]

Here's my submission to the Grand Orbital Space Station Challenge.

I might be abusing the number of safe seats points mechanism.

I probably could have gone for a direct Laythe aerobrake manoeuvre and have all my payload fuel plus more.

No mods so I was doing everything by eye.

My points calculation:

274.4 tonnes payload * 100 = 27440 (Not sure what my final payload is, I've a full 32 tank and _Mainsail Skipper extra)

4536.1 tonnes launch * -2 = - 9072.2 (see 2nd picture)

328 Kerbals * 100 = 32800

320 Comfortable seats * 200 = 64000

Manned Science lab = 500

Total: = 179667.8 * 3 (Laythe) = 539003.4

I can't get the imgur album to work , so have a look here :

http://imgur.com/gLVhpdr,7CbRQgM,7t5P4qJ,aTJRWUO,9czCkbz,7I6xnZy,DsQ5f5a,To9tTWI,hQJRYyz,oqKmHHA,HUfISHP,AgdXj4B,iaI0KO5,ezToIsS,pFXAJN0,B2uJuCX,OSg420q,utM5Z1r,6UfDIyr,feGnNl3,VmtFoCn,TBh9r7f,Hqc07ss,ssU6uJk,HgLrHRq,ouXJtOz,d36dxid,Kfpg6b1,u9Ir77x,7m5WG1n,wzq6PPh,OecUE8e,7ZAa2nP,sgmSlti,r2i8bTN,8eyKcFx,YgzCv1o,V42Ssxw,kPyGMeL,cTqKcqh,tSuVpaM,rBuEMD1,2OdscLD,zM1tioU,A4VwXNu,ecGAnFQ,smLB1yX#0

Do ask if you want more info!

Edit: Its a Skipper engine...

Edited April 12, 2015 by iLikeRovers

[Norcalplanner]

Some good looking entries posted in the last 24 hours. I'm away from my computer at the moment, but should be able to review and score these tonight or tomorrow. Keep 'em comin'!

[Norcalplanner]

Here's my Eve station, in its final configuration:

https://i.imgur.com/4wGckTG.jpg

It masses 128.230 tons (12800), of which 93.793 are the station proper and 34.437 are the dedicated shuttle/tug (1000). It has a science lab (500) and a maximum occupancy of 21 (not counting the Bug's two short-term seats; 4200). It has an actual crew of 2 (200).

The total mass of the launches required to put it there was 2035 tons (at least 5 of which were probes expended earlier in the course of the mission, but I'm not going to quibble; -4070).

By my count, this comes to 14630 points, with a x1.5 multiplier for Eve, giving a final total of 21945 (Modded Division).

I ask if I can get partial credit for a return vehicle, as the Bug is quite capable of returning Arch and Alf to Kerbin (that was one reason why it was included, in case of emergency), but cannot actually land there; given the significant infrastructure in orbit there, including another permanent station, it has no real need to.

Congratulations, Commander Zoom! You have completed the Grand Orbital Space Station Challenge with a Modded Division entry scoring 23,445 points!

A very well documented entry. Kudos for combining this challenge with the Eve Rocks challenge. I gave you full credit for having a lander which can take Arch and Alf back to Kerbin - by my estimate, you'll have nearly a thousand m/s of delta V left in the bug when you get near the surface of Kerbin, and a TWR greater than 1. It wouldn't be pretty, but I can see the bug landing in a few large pieces and the two Kerbonauts emerging shaken but intact. Looks like you've got a good workable station for future use - well done. Feel free to add the GOSSC badge in the OP to your sig.

[Norcalplanner]

Here's my submission to the Grand Orbital Space Station Challenge.

I might be abusing the number of safe seats points mechanism.

I probably could have gone for a direct Laythe aerobrake manoeuvre and have all my payload fuel plus more.

No mods so I was doing everything by eye.

My points calculation:

274.4 tonnes payload * 100 = 27440 (Not sure what my final payload is, I've a full 32 tank and Mainsail extra)

4536.1 tonnes launch * -2 = - 9072.2 (see 2nd picture)

328 Kerbals * 100 = 32800

320 Comfortable seats * 200 = 64000

Manned Science lab = 500

Total: = 179667.8 * 3 (Laythe) = 539003.4

I can't get the imgur album to work , so have a look here :

http://imgur.com/gLVhpdr,7CbRQgM,7t5P4qJ,aTJRWUO,9czCkbz,7I6xnZy,DsQ5f5a,To9tTWI,hQJRYyz,oqKmHHA,HUfISHP,AgdXj4B,iaI0KO5,ezToIsS,pFXAJN0,B2uJuCX,OSg420q,utM5Z1r,6UfDIyr,feGnNl3,VmtFoCn,TBh9r7f,Hqc07ss,ssU6uJk,HgLrHRq,ouXJtOz,d36dxid,Kfpg6b1,u9Ir77x,7m5WG1n,wzq6PPh,OecUE8e,7ZAa2nP,sgmSlti,r2i8bTN,8eyKcFx,YgzCv1o,V42Ssxw,kPyGMeL,cTqKcqh,tSuVpaM,rBuEMD1,2OdscLD,zM1tioU,A4VwXNu,ecGAnFQ,smLB1yX#0

Do ask if you want more info!

Congratulations, iLikeRovers! You have successfully completed the Grand Orbital Space Station Challenge with a Stock(-ish) Division entry scoring 539,003 points!

Well done with a classic ring design. Those Mk3 passenger cabins are turning out to be the effective way to go - I used them heavily in the Mega(-useless) station, which was just too big for its own good. You smartly kept it to a single ring, and actually went through the trouble of launching it with a full complement of Kerbals! Thanks for the animated GIFs in the album - it really added a sense of perspective to certain parts of the mission. Feel free to add the badge to your sig.

[Commander Zoom]

Feel free to add the GOSSC badge in the OP to your sig.

Have done so, with thanks.

I'll take your word that it might be possible to bring a Bug down to a safe landing, or at least a survivable crash, on Kerbin; I don't want to try it myself, even in a "sim." And yes, if I was going to do more with this save (rather than being in the process of wrapping it up, with the release imminent), I'd probably send some others out to join Arch and Alf at the next window.

[Norcalplanner]

Here's something I've been meaning to do for a long time. Many impressive stations end up being used a lot less than planned for one reason - LAG. As the part count goes up, the framerate slows to a crawl. Frustration goes up, fun goes down. My Mega(useless) Station is an extreme example of this. At 1-2 fps, I'm never going back to it ever again.

To show the simple pleasure of a simple station, I present the LPC (Low Part Count) Station. There are two variants in the album - one uses tri-symmetry and has 19 parts, the other uses bi-symmetry and has 17 parts. While these stations won't win any beauty contests, they're cheap and cheerful. They can make it into LKO with nearly full tanks. If you don't mind drawing down the fuel reserves a bit, they have enough grunt to make it to make it to either of Kerbin's moons or anywhere they can aerobrake, and still have a good chunk of fuel left. Enjoy.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

[Hotblack Desiato]

Behold the Dragon Station.

Capable of docking with other stations and tanker craft to form even larger stations with dedicated launch vehicles, science station, habitation, and enough fuel to refuel pretty much any space craft you can imagine including all fuel types... Technically, there are 3 of them in this video...

I will upload craft file when I get home. All stock. They have been to Mun and to Duna and probably have the range to go much further but I've not tried.. yet. Getting that many together, causes a TON of lag btw.

Enough docking access ports to support a fleet of a variety of sized ships from probe to tanker. Docking port approaches are actually color coded by light. Blue for Tankers, Red for Standard, Green for Jr.

I see a lot of possible optimization with part welding.

for example those girder-elements with the dockingports.

the 6 node element + the 2 girders for every direction + 1 senior docking-port (and no struits) are 14 parts, which could be collapsed into one part. because you can remove the struits, you get rid of another 8 parts, totalling 22 parts to 1 part. since you have 3 or 4 of those things, and similar elements for the standard ports, you could easily get rid of 100 parts.

same thing (with lesser part reduction) is possible for tanks + adapters (2.5 to 1.25m) and so.

you can also fuse a probe core and batteries and one lamp together, even RCS-tanks and SAS-modules (for high torque-needs, fuse several SAS-modules together, for power-storage, do the same thing with batteries, or fuse them onto tanks).

I'm currently planning my next game in ksp for 1.0, and the first step will be a station in kerbin orbit, which will be entry worthy (>1000t mass, and so). and this station will heavily rely on part welding, because I don't hate my cpu ;-) )

[Columbia]

Are there any points requirements needed to be qualified, other than the rules? I once had a one-launch space station that was able to get to Mun orbit, but it's launcher is.. 2,000 + tons.

Thanks in advance!

[Norcalplanner]

Are there any points requirements needed to be qualified, other than the rules? I once had a one-launch space station that was able to get to Mun orbit, but it's launcher is.. 2,000 + tons.

Thanks in advance!

Columbia, it's -2 points per ton on the pad, so there's some incentive for efficiency. If you include enough comfortable seats on the station, it doesn't end up mattering too much. 2,000 tons isn't all that big in my book.