[1.3] Pilot Assistant: Atmospheric piloting aids - 1.13.2 (May 28)

[Crzyrndm]

Dangit, I thought I fixed the 0/360 heading problem. It's a simple fix (already dealt with it in once) but it may be a few days until I can upload a new version (internet issues >.<).

Physics warp sounds like it's not updating the time scalar properly which may be a little more difficult to resolve. It may just come down to making the defaults much less abrupt (you can do this yourself by increasing the scalar on the vibrating axis, just increase the warp speed slowly and make sure it's stable before increasing it again )

I keep meaning to make the paused indicator show up whenever either SAS module is active (speaking of, need to make that a bit more obvious too...) so that should make it more obvious that SAS over-rides all it's aids totally.

Edited November 27, 2014 by Crzyrndm

[AccidentalDisassembly]

Pilot assistant works fine - you can't use it with SAS on. You can use heading control with mechjeb SmartASS, oddly enough.

PA windows don't go away when you hit F2, btw.

OK, I think that must be the problem then - I had stock SAS on while trying to turn on PA stuff. For a future update, it would be handy to somehow deal with that so that you don't have to turn off SAS (possibly blowing up the plane, especially if moving very fast) before turning on the PA. Will go try that out and see what happens...

EDIT: Welp, tried that. The Pilot Assist now definitely engages, and promptly nosedives me into the ground - updating/changing heading, altitude, mode, whatever still makes it point straight down =(

Edited November 28, 2014 by AccidentalDisassembly

[Crzyrndm]

OK, I think that must be the problem then - I had stock SAS on while trying to turn on PA stuff. For a future update, it would be handy to somehow deal with that so that you don't have to turn off SAS (possibly blowing up the plane, especially if moving very fast) before turning on the PA.

You can pre-enable all modules prior to deactivating SAS. However, I do need to make it more obvious that it isn't doing anything while SAS is active

RE: Nose dive

1) Which module are you activating (vertical/altitude or wing leveller/heading)

1a) Are you activating it on the ground before takeoff or in flight

1b) Which mode is the activated module in

2) If not the wing leveller, how are you activating it (clicking activate or going straight to entering values)

3) Is it a steady nose down, excessive vibration, ...? Please describe how the vessel acts after engagement (eg. vibrations on the pitch axis that steadily grow in magnitude)

RE: Ongoing Development

Tomorrow will most likely see the next update for this plugin. I've been a little busy this week so I haven't had a chance to do much yet, but the planned list for this weekend is:

• Improved Pilot Assistant/SAS interaction, more obvious GUI notifications in particular
  
• A fix for ground activation of modules with an active integral term causing unwanted jerks on takeoff
  
• Retrofitting the scalar tuning value seen in the SAS module to the PA tuning GUI
  
• Smoothing of the derivative term, possible new GUI entry
  
• Presets for the SAS module, along the same vein as what PA already has
  
• Improved interaction of the SAS module with stock SAS, in particular making sure the stock SAS is enabled when atmo-SAS deactivates because of leaving the atmosphere, and allowing it to be forced on in vacuum as re-entry prep (I hope no-one tries to use it for orbital operations...)
  
• General polishing of the SAS GUI, including making the active alert box a button and making it a little less intrusive
  
• Configuration to allow roll SAS to be seperately activated if so desired
  

I also have plans for a third module which sits somewhere between the SAS module (which only acts when no control input is present) and the original Pilot Assistant module (abstract control). In essence it will be moderating input according to a number of rules that have been preset. While the vehicle is acting inside the limits of those rules the players input will be unaffected, but exceed a limit and it will take action to try and stay within the stated limit. Should be very useful for when you want to fly hands-on but the craft is a bit touchy (for the truly unstable craft, well tuned Pilot assistant is still going to be the best option...)

Edited November 28, 2014 by Crzyrndm

[MedicRules41]

This looks absolutely incredible. Testing it out now, with NEAR. I'll see how it behaves.

[steve_v]

This *is* absolutely incredible. Instant addition to "must have mods for anything with wings" list. Right up there with FAR/NEAR

Dang, you already have all my wishlist items on the list. Guess I should actually read the previous posts.

[AccidentalDisassembly]

You can pre-enable all modules prior to deactivating SAS. However, I do need to make it more obvious that it isn't doing anything while SAS is active

RE: Nose dive

1) Which module are you activating (vertical/altitude or wing leveller/heading)

1a) Are you activating it on the ground before takeoff or in flight

1b) Which mode is the activated module in

2) If not the wing leveller, how are you activating it (clicking activate or going straight to entering values)

3) Is it a steady nose down, excessive vibration, ...? Please describe how the vessel acts after engagement (eg. vibrations on the pitch axis that steadily grow in magnitude)

I'm not sure if I figured out what was happening or not, but I did get the assistant to work correctly (and it is AWESOME) with a newer craft I made. I suspect it was user error, or possibly simply that the plane design I had was bad, or something like that.

I was activating altitude/heading keepers (not wing leveler or vertical speed, I think). It was a steady nose down (as in pitch over forward and just keep going until you're pointed straight down) and not vibrations, though I finally figured out how to eliminate some of the vibrations - if I had another suggestion, it would be to rename the field ("control vertical oscillation" or something) or simply to make sliders for those of us who don't know what Ki, Kd, Kp, whatever mean.

What happened on the previous vessel was: 1) enable assistant functions, numbers readout (like target altitude) was based on altitude at the time I pressed it, like it should be, I think. 2) steady pitch over until nose down, 3) no apparent effort at correction.

But there are many factors which I now understand may have played into this: possibly running out of battery and not being aware, possibly crappy control surfaces, possibly also a conflict between normal SAS and the assistant... so I'd treat my report with skepticism.

[Crzyrndm]

This looks absolutely incredible. Testing it out now, with NEAR. I'll see how it behaves.

This *is* absolutely incredible. Instant addition to "must have mods for anything with wings" list. Right up there with FAR/NEAR

Dang, you already have all my wishlist items on the list. Guess I should actually read the previous posts.

I'm not sure if I figured out what was happening or not, but I did get the assistant to work correctly (and it is AWESOME) with a newer craft I made. I suspect it was user error, or possibly simply that the plane design I had was bad, or something like that.

I was activating altitude/heading keepers (not wing leveler or vertical speed, I think). It was a steady nose down (as in pitch over forward and just keep going until you're pointed straight down) and not vibrations, though I finally figured out how to eliminate some of the vibrations - if I had another suggestion, it would be to rename the field ("control vertical oscillation" or something) or simply to make sliders for those of us who don't know what Ki, Kd, Kp, whatever mean.

What happened on the previous vessel was: 1) enable assistant functions, numbers readout (like target altitude) was based on altitude at the time I pressed it, like it should be, I think. 2) steady pitch over until nose down, 3) no apparent effort at correction.

But there are many factors which I now understand may have played into this: possibly running out of battery and not being aware, possibly crappy control surfaces, possibly also a conflict between normal SAS and the assistant... so I'd treat my report with skepticism.

Good to know you got it sorted

Sliders won't be happening, but the inclusion of the "scalar" term into Pilot Assistant will make it much easier for anyone to get it working reasonably well. You won't get perfect response without tuning the PID gains, but it will let you tune out ossilations with just a few clicks

[Crzyrndm]

Updated to 0.8.1

Changes

• Improved Pilot Assistant/SAS interaction: more obvious GUI notifications, pause/unpause synchronisation
  
• A fix for ground activation of modules with an active integral term building up large error over time
  
• Retrofitting the scalar tuning value seen in the SAS module to the PA tuning GUI
  
• Smoothing of the derivative term (now a rolling average with a factor of 0.5. ie: change = change / 2 + new_change / 2)

The presets that you can see for the SAS module don't work atm (loading the wrong data for some reason I have yet to work out), so I would advise not playing with them.

Edited November 30, 2014 by Crzyrndm

[Van Disaster]

Some automatic gain for at least AoA integral limits might be nice - not entirely sure how to do that without killing responsiveness yet, possibly a function of control deflection and AoA error over time ( which hey, is an integral for the integral ). Can't just track the integral itself, or I think it'd just get bigger and bigger ( and also using the integral to set it's own limits is somewhat redundant ). I do find myself changing clamp values in flight, especially ascending heavy or descending at a fair amount of speed.

[Crzyrndm]

Generally, if you find you need to change the integral limits to hit the output clamps, you can increase Kp and achieve the same result. Proportional for large scale changes, Integral for bringing the error to zero.

That said, some of the default integral limits are just a little bizzare (I'm right in the middle of reviewing all the PID defaults to correct that among other things).

[Van Disaster]

Adjusting Kp without everything else usually means it'll not settle - and also means it spends considerable time at limits. Kd is the one I usually raise first, tbh - and then spend a while trying to lower everything until there's a chance it doesn't just jump to max straight away. Either way it seems I *do* have to change clamp limits ( and/or Ki but it's usually so small that it's hard to adjust ) generally with altitude.

[Vectura]

I really don't get this mod. As soon as I activate the SAS part of it, no matter what values I set, it nosedives. The pilot assistant just doesn't do anything at all.

Edit: With some more testing, pilot assistant also nosedives the plane.

[Crzyrndm]

Adjusting Kp without everything else usually means it'll not settle - and also means it spends considerable time at limits. Kd is the one I usually raise first, tbh - and then spend a while trying to lower everything until there's a chance it doesn't just jump to max straight away. Either way it seems I *do* have to change clamp limits ( and/or Ki but it's usually so small that it's hard to adjust ) generally with altitude.

Part of the tuning overhaul has been to make it less likely to just try and jump right to an output clamp. What I'm finding is that often the control surface response is very low and it's causing the outer loop controls to have to do more work than they should be doing. The interactions are complex...

I really don't get this mod. As soon as I activate the SAS part of it, no matter what values I set, it nosedives. The pilot assistant just doesn't do anything at all.

Edit: With some more testing, pilot assistant also nosedives the plane.

You're the second person to report this in as many days. I'm not sure what's happening, but it sounds like I need to find out

Edited November 30, 2014 by Crzyrndm

[Wanderfound]

Adjusting Kp without everything else usually means it'll not settle - and also means it spends considerable time at limits. Kd is the one I usually raise first, tbh - and then spend a while trying to lower everything until there's a chance it doesn't just jump to max straight away. Either way it seems I *do* have to change clamp limits ( and/or Ki but it's usually so small that it's hard to adjust ) generally with altitude.

I'm not sure how the behaviour of the tuner I've been using compares to this mod, but I get good and stable results at all altitudes from these PID settings:

[Crzyrndm]

That'll work for tuning stock SAS (and the ratio's of kp/ki/kd will likely work for the surface SAS tuning as well), but it's pretty much irrelevant for Pilot Assistant's aids (heading/altitude/vertical speed control)

I have had problems linking the stock PID modules to my custom ones even when doing the same job. The functionality is all present (and then some ), but the outputs are at a totally different scale and stable tuning constants from one are wildly unstable or totally ineffectual in the other (it's approximately a factor of 100 different, but it never quite works even with that)

Edited November 30, 2014 by Crzyrndm

[Crzyrndm]

Updating to 0.8.2

• SAS Presets are now functional
  
• Default tuning update

The presets remember if they are for the stock module or the surface module, so you can't accidentally load one into the other. Switching from one SAS module to the other will revert to the last loaded preset for now (not the previous values that may have been modified from that preset)

Edited December 2, 2014 by Crzyrndm

[MasseFlieger]

Any chance this can be integrated with RPM?

Great mod BTW!

[Crzyrndm]

Any chance this can be integrated with RPM?

Great mod BTW!

I'm having some trouble just imagining how it would work with IVA stuff, so you're going to have to elaborate a little more. My leaning would be to say no though.

And another update (no more today I promise )

Version 0.8.3

• Corrected behavious of Surface SAS around 0/360 degrees heading and 180/-180 degrees of bank (it doesn't take the long way around any more...)
  
• Surface SAS engagement smoothing
  
• Surface SAS defaults are less forceful to help with smoother engagement
  
• Surface SAS activity indicator is now a button (with pretty colours no less )
  
• Surface SAS attitude +/- buttons behave better around the 0/360 and 180/-180 crossings
  
• Surface SAS attitude inputs are now clamped within sane ranges (no more of this)
  

I think that pretty much clears the backlog of bugs and annoyances

Edited December 2, 2014 by Crzyrndm

[Ph34rb0t]

Window toggling seems to be acting up for me.

Reproduction:

- Open PA's window selection menu from the menu bar

- Open either or both subwindow(s)

- Do some autopilot or SAS stuff

- Right-click the open window(s) and they will vanish

- Reopen PA's window selection menu from the menu bar

- Click either button

=> Nothing will happen

I've had to revert my flight as there was no was to disengage the autopilot and it didn't change a thing. I still can not open either subwindow after having closed it once.

- Edit:

Changing scenes to the KSC or the main menu didn't help. Had to restart KSP. Must've been an outright plugin crash.

Closing the subwindows by pressing the buttons in PA's window manager works.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Ph34rb0t

[Van Disaster]

If you have Show Control Surfaces open when you close the complete PID section then the resulting window is somewhat unusably formatted. Reopening the PID section & unchecking show control surfaces lets it close like it should.

Any way you can put a G-limiter in? I upped the bank limits for a small agile thing & got it's wings ripped off

[Crzyrndm]

I'm somewhere in the middle of a GUI rewrite on my development version so I can't exactly replicate either of these in a useful fashion.

That said, what did you right click on Ph3rb0t that caused the windows to close? I don't recall anything that would have closed the windows other than closing them via. the toolbar window selector (well, in the current release version ).

Van Disaster's bug on the other hand is a rather simple case of a faulty boolean check that I believe I have already fixed.

EDIT

You can always disengage AP funtions with the tab key (pause). If they were still running it was a GUI malfunction instead of a complete crash and all the hotkeys should still have been working.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Crzyrndm

[Ph34rb0t]

That said, what did you right click on Ph3rb0t that caused the windows to close? I don't recall anything that would have closed the windows other than closing them via. the toolbar window selector (well, in the current release version ).

Gray title bar. In the current release.

You can always disengage AP funtions with the tab key (pause). If they were still running it was a GUI malfunction instead of a complete crash and all the hotkeys should still have been working.

Can you put the control status into an in-game message while you're redoing the GUI (similar to the camera mode announcements)?

[Crzyrndm]

It's on the list

EDIT

As a sneak peak at what I'm doing with the GUI...

Most of the GUI displays are now individually collapsible so once I finish overhauling the resizing logic, the use of screen real-estate will be easily managable (that not all of course, whole lot of GUI improvements in the pipeline

Edited December 4, 2014 by Crzyrndm

[Van Disaster]

Just a note: could you make it persistent? a little irritating having to reopen the thing every time I revert to launch when I'm testing a plane.

Cheers!

[Crzyrndm]

Version 0.9.0 is stage one of the GUI overhaul, gives the ability to minimise screen space down to a very small area if required, with only the wanted information being displayed. GUI resizing logic is significantly improved