Nertea

[1.7.x] Community Tech Tree (April 15)

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I for one won't be doing MM style patching - my stuff will have a hard dependency on CTT.

NOOO!!!1!!1!!!!eleventy-one! Y U H8 STOKK TEK TRE33???

:)

Seriously, I think TM and CTT are light enough to be a hard dependency if you feel strongly that your mod doesn't fit into the stock tree. But I do appreciate that it's possible for a mod to support CTT without having a hard dependency.

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Whilst I'm here, I've updated the Taurus HCV cfg (link). The MCT-8 Omnibus Storage Container can now be found in Long Term Habitation, as opposed to Exotic Alloys.

Also, here is a cfg that moves the cone and radial chutes from RealChutes to the nodes immediately following their stock counterparts (Basic Rocketry for the cone chute, Enhanced Survivability for the radial chute).

Nice, will add to the OP.

(Sorry for the delay in answering.) Is the patching necessary, though? TechManager and Mod-Oriented Tech Tree seem to manage alternate tech trees just fine without it. Does it offer additional functionality?

The alternative is essentially a new release anyone someone wants to add things to the tree. I'd gladly take the issue you bring up (likely to be less common honestly) over the need for constant updates and downloads. This also puts control in modders' hands rather than my hands so should improve adoption.

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... I'd gladly take the issue you bring up (likely to be less common honestly) over the need for constant updates and downloads. ...

Slacker... ;)

Although the real answer is in the next sentence:

This also puts control in modders' hands rather than my hands...

Just another shovel in the sandbox for modders to use!

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Yep, I am very happy with how this turned out. And RE prior comment, I do feel pretty strongly that some of my mods (FTT, K+, and the upcoming Alcubierre drive) have such game-changing elements that they just don't fit in stock. Plus it will help better partition MKS/OKS, so for me it's a no brainer. But for a smaller mod, an MM patch makes sense.

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Yep, I am very happy with how this turned out. And RE prior comment, I do feel pretty strongly that some of my mods (FTT, K+, and the upcoming Alcubierre drive) have such game-changing elements that they just don't fit in stock. Plus it will help better partition MKS/OKS, so for me it's a no brainer. But for a smaller mod, an MM patch makes sense.

All I ask is that you have a sensible progression in the techs. Nothing annoys me more than a tech tree where I start getting components I can't use for two more tech levels (here's a 1.25-2.5m adapter, too bad you don't have any 2.5m parts yet! or handy space station reactor, too bad you don't have anything to lift it, nor any other station parts!). The worst is probably BoxSat, which starts giving you components around Tier 2, but the actual frame isn't available until Tier 4. (If my geriatric memory isn't fooling me.)

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As a design practice, CTT tells TechManager to create empty nodes, then allows anybody to create a ModuleManager config to put their parts in those nodes. Other tech trees that are available include the data on how to move parts in the tree config and let TechManager handle the reassignments, but the ModuleManager approach is easier for mod authors to participate in without taking up the CTT maintainers' time.

I also recommend the MM approach. Or, as per roverdude, just assign parts natively in the part.cfg. TM can assign parts, but I'd like to remove that feature at some point.

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All I ask is that you have a sensible progression in the techs. Nothing annoys me more than a tech tree where I start getting components I can't use for two more tech levels (here's a 1.25-2.5m adapter, too bad you don't have any 2.5m parts yet! or handy space station reactor, too bad you don't have anything to lift it, nor any other station parts!). The worst is probably BoxSat, which starts giving you components around Tier 2, but the actual frame isn't available until Tier 4. (If my geriatric memory isn't fooling me.)

There will be much planning for this :)

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The alternative is essentially a new release anyone someone wants to add things to the tree. I'd gladly take the issue you bring up (likely to be less common honestly) over the need for constant updates and downloads. This also puts control in modders' hands rather than my hands so should improve adoption.

Fair enough -- thanks.

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Nice, will add to the OP.

This also puts control in modders' hands rather than my hands so should improve adoption.

Not just modders, we as the end users can also move parts around if we feel the need to and then share those files with others.

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Not just modders, we as the end users can also move parts around if we feel the need to and then share those files with others.

We have a name for users who create content and share it with others. :D

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If I may make a suggestion:

Currently mods that add parts to build specific craft are a minority. To most players the parts aren't worth their weight in RAM without being able to be applied to a variety of applications. Additionally they feel out of place in a game about designing your own solutions.

The first problem is slowly being eased: by popular demand tools to reduce ram usage are getting better and better, from forceopengl to ATM to the optimization allowed by tweakscale, firespitter tank switcher, and even the hope that one day 64 bit windows will be stable, players' game data directories are slowly getting bigger. :all applaud:

The second problem can be carefully addressed by this tech tree. Essentially what I'm proposing is a short series of mid to upper tech nodes under the premise of a "skunkworks". These nodes could contain parts included in build-a-craft type mods. The balance would come where the player, in unlocking a skunkworks node rather than another node, trades versatility in parts for mission optimization provided by the modders. The best example of a mod that would benefit from this integration is the KSO mod by helldiver, which I think is absolutely stunning and deserves more attention than it gets, yet simultaneously exclude from my career mode because of its awkwardness with respect to the part-pack sqo. I also am biased in that I am currently working on an Endurance for KSP mod that, without some high tier skunk-works nodes, I'd be almost at a loss for tech tree placement. If these types of mods are to have an equal opportunity in the community, they need a more logical tech tree solution than is currently available.

Thanks for the consideration!

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I updated the download to 1.1. This fixes 1 major (incorrect specification for Advanced Metalworks) and 1 minor (Enhanced Survivability showing when it shouldn't) issue.

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I updated the download to 1.1. This fixes 1 major (incorrect specification for Advanced Metalworks) and 1 minor (Enhanced Survivability showing when it shouldn't) issue.

Did you update the space port link? Non of the NFP parts are showing in-game where they should. In game it says it is version 1.0.

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I'm just wondering, is CTT open to suggestions of new nodes that could be added in the future? I'm just noting that there's not much for levels of robotics at present (although i don't currently know what would need adding). Incidently, it bugs me how stock has Actuators, Electronics, Motors and Robotics all in wildly different parts of the tech tree.

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Did you update the space port link? Non of the NFP parts are showing in-game where they should. In game it says it is version 1.0.

I did forget, it seems, to update the ingame number. The file is correct though. Was it working for you with the last update? If yes, that's odd, because I'm looking at all the NFP nodes full of NFP parts right now.

I'm just wondering, is CTT open to suggestions of new nodes that could be added in the future? I'm just noting that there's not much for levels of robotics at present (although i don't currently know what would need adding). Incidently, it bugs me how stock has Actuators, Electronics, Motors and Robotics all in wildly different parts of the tech tree.

Generally I'm open to new suggestions, the more mods that are likely to use a node the more likely it would be to get added. I would have been leery of adding many of the NFE/NFE-specific nodes I have if I wasn't pretty sure that they'd be useable by some of RoverDude's stuff and KSPI.

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How about a standard BBCode notice and/or badge of some sort to put on forum threads of addons that support this, rather than having everyone using some different way to indicate such support?

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Added to the OP.

How about a standard BBCode notice and/or badge of some sort to put on forum threads of addons that support this, rather than having everyone using some different way to indicate such support?

I'm out of town, but I do intend to make a logo when I get back. A small version for everyone to use is a great idea :).

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I decided to take over BargainRockets as it's my favorite mod EVER.

How do I add CTT support?

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By reading the opening post... :P

No really, here is the relevant section:

(...) The best way to to do this is via ModuleManager patches. Simply create an empty .cfg file to be packaged with your mod (call it anything you like, I use ModNameCommunityTechTree.cfg), and include entries as follows:

@PART[panel-static01]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree,TechManager]
{
@TechRequired = advSolarTech
}

This assigns the part "panel-static01" to the Advanced Solar Tech (advSolarTech) node, and will only run in the presence of the Community Tech Tree. A list of new nodes and additional details can be found in ForModders.txt, which is included in the download.

However, Bargain Rocket Parts strikes me as the sort of mod that would have its parts very early in the tech tree, which means leaving them in the stock nodes... unless it has some powerful high-end toys that I, never having played with it, do not know of.

Edited by Streetwind

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By reading the opening post... :P

No really, here is the relevant section:

However, Bargain Rocket Parts strikes me as the sort of mod that would have its parts very early in the tech tree, which means leaving them in the stock nodes... unless it has some powerful high-end toys that I, never having played with it, do not know of.

What I want is to have my own nodes.... that branch off the "Start" node.

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