Nertea

[1.9.x] Community Tech Tree (February 20, 2020)

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5 hours ago, Spagoose said:

Out of curiosity, what is the recommended science return in the difficulty settings with this mod? Does completing this tech tree need considerable more science than the stock tree?

Simply because the tree is significantly longer, yes. That said, the stock tree can be completed without even touching another planet (a trip to solar SoI and proper farming of the Kerbin system and you're done). By having a much longer tree (for higher mod techs and the like), you're going to need more science and thus need at least one good interplanetary trip, likely two.

That said, science return settings do not need any alteration. Its still easily doable to fill out this tree without adjusting that slider. Its just a bit harder than default.

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16 hours ago, Spagoose said:

Out of curiosity, what is the recommended science return in the difficulty settings with this mod? Does completing this tech tree need considerable more science than the stock tree?

it's entirely based on how much grind you want to deal with. Here's what I suggest you do to figure it out - add up all the nodes in the tech tree you have yet to unlock to see how much science you need to get. Now, go into the R&D building and press Mod+F12 to bring up the debug menu. Visit the R&D or Science tab - forget what its called and you will see an option to calculate all available science in the universe. Now compare that number to the amount you actually need and adjust your science return percentage accordingly. I originally had 5x as much science available as I required so I took that way down to around 1.5x as much as needed to really make me work for it

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Just curious - is there any kind of a tool for or guide to creating a "from scratch" tech tree?

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23 hours ago, tjsnh said:

Just curious - is there any kind of a tool for or guide to creating a "from scratch" tech tree?

Well, it's basically just config file writing. A lot of config file writing. To my knowledge there is no graphical editor, so you basically write a tech node by hand, save the file, start the game, check in the R&D building if everything is correct, close the game, fix what was wrong, start the game, check again, close the game, write the next node and so on and so forth. (If I am wrong, please correct me, dear internet.)

You define a node by opening "@TechTree { }" inside a custom config file, and then add "RDNode { }" modules for all the new nodes you want to define inside it. You can change existing nodes (AKA the stock ones) by calling their "@RDNode[node_id] { }". For the details, look into CommunityTechTree.cfg as shipped with this mod.

If none of what I just said made any sense to you, you should first get more comfortable with using ModuleManager and writing your own configs before attempting a tech tree. There's a lot of stuff that goes into it that you won't see anywhere else in the world of custom config files.

 

Edited by Streetwind

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16 hours ago, Streetwind said:

Well, .... files.

 

Kindof what I figured.

I'm comfortable with coding and MM configs, had just hoped there was a less time consuming method :) Didn't hurt to ask, thanks!

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I was poking around in the R&D center the other day and found a bug: Efficient and Specialized Flight Systems have the same coordinates (-1309,1240,-1).  I assume the x-coordinate should be -1118 for Specialized (to line up with the other 550-point nodes)?

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Hi,

I've been building for myself a new career play for KSP using most of your mods (and necrobones) to make as a "stock alike" career mode. I must say I like them and they are very nicely crafted. Thank you very much for such a marvelous work.

In the matter of improving the tech tree I would like to give some feedback about it:

- I feel the progression halts seriously on the 45 point mark. On this point the contract market gets blocked abruptly (giving only economic contracts) around kerbin and the steeped progression on the tech tree starts to hit. At this point unmanned vehicles are still quite unfeasible due to the lack of solar panels, space stations are not available and planes are at the bare minimum of their technology (making them a pain to use on contracts). The solution I usually rely is of a quick flyby to mun//minmus to push again the science gain.

- The progession of the fuel tank sizes encourages (if not enforces) the early upgrade of the base installations and, ironically, it then starts dropping the part count as you progress on the tech tree.

- The strategies of the administration building regarding science are useless (or at least more useless :P).

- Airplane technologies are too expensive. That is wrong in vainilla KSP and here is only more accentuated. Pulling out the rapier engine, most of the tree is only usefull within kerbin.

Upon these I would suggest several options:

- bring down some essential parts of the tech tree (such as solar panels and plane related elements).

- Rebalance the costs of the intermediate tech tree.

- Add more progressions to the space center installations ( If this is somewhat this is possible and feasible).

- Rework the science strategies into something useful.

I leave the mods installed in case they are usefull with the feedback.

Spoiler

Adjustable Landing Gear (AdjustableLandingGear v1.2.0)
Asteroid Day (AsteroidDay 1.0.5)
B9 Aerospace Pack (B9 R5.4.0)
B9 Aerospace Procedural Parts - Fork (B9-PWings-Fork 2.1)
B9 Aerospace Props (B9-props R5.4.0)
B9 Animation Modules (B9AnimationModules v1.0.0)
BahamutoD Animation Modules (BDAnimationModules v0.6.2)
Color Coded Canisters (ColorCodedCans 1.4.2)
Colorful Fuel Lines (ColorfulFuelLines 0.3.2)
Community Resource Pack (CommunityResourcePack 0.4.8.0)
Community Tech Tree (CommunityTechTree 2.3)
Contract Configurator (ContractConfigurator 1.9.1)
Contract Pack: Advanced Progression (ContractConfigurator-AdvancedProgression 4.5.1)
Contract Pack: Anomaly Surveyor (ContractConfigurator-AnomalySurveyor 1.4.2)
Contract Pack: Bases and Stations (ContractConfigurator-KerbinSpaceStation 1:3.1)
Contract Pack: Field Research (ContractConfigurator-FieldResearch 1.1.2)
Contract Pack: Initial Contracts (ContractConfigurator-InitialContracts 1.0.5)
Contract Pack: Tourism Plus (ContractConfigurator-Tourism 1.3.0)
Contract Pack: Unmanned Contracts (ContractConfigurator-UnmannedContracts 0.3.15)
Crossfeed Enabler (CrossFeedEnabler v3.3)
Cryogenic Engines (CryoEngines 1:0.1.11)
DMagic Orbital Science (DMagicOrbitalScience 1.1)
Extraplanetary Launchpads (ExtraPlanetaryLaunchpads 5.2.94)
Firespitter Core (FirespitterCore v7.1.5)
Fuel Tanks Plus (FuelTanksPlus 1.5)
Hide Empty Tech Nodes (HideEmptyTechNodes 0.3)
Interstellar Fuel Switch Core (InterstellarFuelSwitch-Core 1.18)
Kerbal Alarm Clock (KerbalAlarmClock v3.5.0.0)
Kerbal Attachment System (KAS 0.5.5)
Kerbal Inventory System (KIS 1.2.3)
Kerbal Planetary Base Systems (KerbalPlanetaryBaseSystems v0.2.10)
Kerbal Stats (KerbalStats 2.0.0)
Klockheed Martian General Plugin Functions - Gimbal module (KlockheedMartian-Gimbal 3.0.6.0)
Modular Rocket Systems LITE (ModularRocketSystemsLITE 1.10)
Module Manager (ModuleManager 2.6.13)
Navball Docking Alignment Indicator (NavballDockingIndicator v7)
Near Future Construction (NearFutureConstruction 0.5.5)
Near Future Electrical (NearFutureElectrical 0.6.0)
Near Future Electrical Core (NearFutureElectrical-Core 0.6.0)
Near Future IVA Props (NearFutureProps 0.4.4)
Near Future Propulsion (NearFuturePropulsion 0.6.0)
Near Future Solar (NearFutureSolar 0.5.5)
Near Future Spacecraft Parts (NearFutureSpacecraft 0.4.4)
No More Science Grinding (NMSG 1.3)
OSE Workshop (Workshop 0.12.1)
RasterPropMonitor (RasterPropMonitor v0.24.2.1)
RasterPropMonitor Core (RasterPropMonitor-Core v0.24.2.1)
RealChute Parachute Systems (RealChute 1.3.2.6)
SCANsat (SCANsat v14.5)
SmokeScreen - Extended FX Plugin (SmokeScreen 2.6.10.0)
Space Plane Color Corrections (SPPCC v0.12)
Spacetux Shared Assets (SpacetuxSA 0.3.9.0)
SpaceY Expanded (SpaceY-Expanded 1.0)
SpaceY Heavy Lifters Parts Pack (SpaceY-Lifters 1.7)
ToadicusTools (ToadicusTools 17)
Toolbar (Toolbar 1.7.10)
USI Core (USI-Core 0.1.2.0)
USI Kolonization Systems (MKS/OKS) (UKS 1:0.31.12.0)
USI Life Support (USI-LS 0.1.7.0)
USI Tools (USITools 0.5.4.0)
VOID (VOID 0.18.5)
Waypoint Manager (WaypointManager 2.4.4)
 

 

 

Edited by Vesparco

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Good ideas, but as mentioned in the OP, that's beyond the scope of this mod, where modification of the positions of parts or balance parameters of stock nodes is undesirable.

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3 hours ago, Vesparco said:

Hi,

I've been building for myself a new career play for KSP using most of your mods (and necrobones) to make as a "stock alike" career mode. I must say I like them and they are very nicely crafted. Thank you very much for such a marvelous work.

In the matter of improving the tech tree I would like to give some feedback about it:

- I feel the progression halts seriously on the 45 point mark. On this point the contract market gets blocked abruptly (giving only economic contracts) around kerbin and the steeped progression on the tech tree starts to hit. At this point unmanned vehicles are still quite unfeasible due to the lack of solar panels, space stations are not available and planes are at the bare minimum of their technology (making them a pain to use on contracts). The solution I usually rely is of a quick flyby to mun//minmus to push again the science gain.

- The progession of the fuel tank sizes encourages (if not enforces) the early upgrade of the base installations and, ironically, it then starts dropping the part count as you progress on the tech tree.

- The strategies of the administration building regarding science are useless (or at least more useless :P).

- Airplane technologies are too expensive. That is wrong in vainilla KSP and here is only more accentuated. Pulling out the rapier engine, most of the tree is only usefull within kerbin.

Upon these I would suggest several options:

- bring down some essential parts of the tech tree (such as solar panels and plane related elements).

- Rebalance the costs of the intermediate tech tree.

- Add more progressions to the space center installations ( If this is somewhat this is possible and feasible).

- Rework the science strategies into something useful.

I leave the mods installed in case they are usefull with the feedback.

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Adjustable Landing Gear (AdjustableLandingGear v1.2.0)
Asteroid Day (AsteroidDay 1.0.5)
B9 Aerospace Pack (B9 R5.4.0)
B9 Aerospace Procedural Parts - Fork (B9-PWings-Fork 2.1)
B9 Aerospace Props (B9-props R5.4.0)
B9 Animation Modules (B9AnimationModules v1.0.0)
BahamutoD Animation Modules (BDAnimationModules v0.6.2)
Color Coded Canisters (ColorCodedCans 1.4.2)
Colorful Fuel Lines (ColorfulFuelLines 0.3.2)
Community Resource Pack (CommunityResourcePack 0.4.8.0)
Community Tech Tree (CommunityTechTree 2.3)
Contract Configurator (ContractConfigurator 1.9.1)
Contract Pack: Advanced Progression (ContractConfigurator-AdvancedProgression 4.5.1)
Contract Pack: Anomaly Surveyor (ContractConfigurator-AnomalySurveyor 1.4.2)
Contract Pack: Bases and Stations (ContractConfigurator-KerbinSpaceStation 1:3.1)
Contract Pack: Field Research (ContractConfigurator-FieldResearch 1.1.2)
Contract Pack: Initial Contracts (ContractConfigurator-InitialContracts 1.0.5)
Contract Pack: Tourism Plus (ContractConfigurator-Tourism 1.3.0)
Contract Pack: Unmanned Contracts (ContractConfigurator-UnmannedContracts 0.3.15)
Crossfeed Enabler (CrossFeedEnabler v3.3)
Cryogenic Engines (CryoEngines 1:0.1.11)
DMagic Orbital Science (DMagicOrbitalScience 1.1)
Extraplanetary Launchpads (ExtraPlanetaryLaunchpads 5.2.94)
Firespitter Core (FirespitterCore v7.1.5)
Fuel Tanks Plus (FuelTanksPlus 1.5)
Hide Empty Tech Nodes (HideEmptyTechNodes 0.3)
Interstellar Fuel Switch Core (InterstellarFuelSwitch-Core 1.18)
Kerbal Alarm Clock (KerbalAlarmClock v3.5.0.0)
Kerbal Attachment System (KAS 0.5.5)
Kerbal Inventory System (KIS 1.2.3)
Kerbal Planetary Base Systems (KerbalPlanetaryBaseSystems v0.2.10)
Kerbal Stats (KerbalStats 2.0.0)
Klockheed Martian General Plugin Functions - Gimbal module (KlockheedMartian-Gimbal 3.0.6.0)
Modular Rocket Systems LITE (ModularRocketSystemsLITE 1.10)
Module Manager (ModuleManager 2.6.13)
Navball Docking Alignment Indicator (NavballDockingIndicator v7)
Near Future Construction (NearFutureConstruction 0.5.5)
Near Future Electrical (NearFutureElectrical 0.6.0)
Near Future Electrical Core (NearFutureElectrical-Core 0.6.0)
Near Future IVA Props (NearFutureProps 0.4.4)
Near Future Propulsion (NearFuturePropulsion 0.6.0)
Near Future Solar (NearFutureSolar 0.5.5)
Near Future Spacecraft Parts (NearFutureSpacecraft 0.4.4)
No More Science Grinding (NMSG 1.3)
OSE Workshop (Workshop 0.12.1)
RasterPropMonitor (RasterPropMonitor v0.24.2.1)
RasterPropMonitor Core (RasterPropMonitor-Core v0.24.2.1)
RealChute Parachute Systems (RealChute 1.3.2.6)
SCANsat (SCANsat v14.5)
SmokeScreen - Extended FX Plugin (SmokeScreen 2.6.10.0)
Space Plane Color Corrections (SPPCC v0.12)
Spacetux Shared Assets (SpacetuxSA 0.3.9.0)
SpaceY Expanded (SpaceY-Expanded 1.0)
SpaceY Heavy Lifters Parts Pack (SpaceY-Lifters 1.7)
ToadicusTools (ToadicusTools 17)
Toolbar (Toolbar 1.7.10)
USI Core (USI-Core 0.1.2.0)
USI Kolonization Systems (MKS/OKS) (UKS 1:0.31.12.0)
USI Life Support (USI-LS 0.1.7.0)
USI Tools (USITools 0.5.4.0)
VOID (VOID 0.18.5)
Waypoint Manager (WaypointManager 2.4.4)
 

 

 

You might find interesting inigma initiative for Community Cereer Framework or CFF in short. A lot of similar ideas already posted there.

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2 hours ago, Nertea said:

Good ideas, but as mentioned in the OP, that's beyond the scope of this mod, where modification of the positions of parts or balance parameters of stock nodes is undesirable.

Totally true. I apologise as I read the OP but I still wasn't sure if some topics were or weren't part of the balance. 

Just one quick question as I checked the cfg file. The values of each tree node have to be static or can be defined as a variable? I was wondering if they could be configured to set their science cost on the number of items within the node and a given factor (just this question, I promise it won't start an interrogation). 

1 hour ago, kcs123 said:

You might find interesting inigma initiative for Community Cereer Framework or CFF in short. A lot of similar ideas already posted there.

Interesting idea, although I should read the whole post to have an good overview. I would say the objective is not easy (specially since a balanced environment in a tech tiered system is complex at least).

Thank you very much for the info ^^

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5 hours ago, kcs123 said:

You might find interesting inigma initiative for Community Cereer Framework or CFF in short. A lot of similar ideas already posted there.

IIRC Nert already saw it. Honestly, like most projects like it, people generally find it not worth it because project managing and concept/idea generation are things that have value in the corporate world, but those sentiments are not echoed in modding communities where the 3D artists, coders, and other modders are producing their content free of charge. The reasoning for this based on my observations is that those contributions are intangibles, whereas code, 3D assets, even config tweaks, are tangible. There is a measurable contribution and when nobody is getting paid for these projects, it seems those who produce tangible contributions do not see value in those contributing intangibles (from a perspective of project contributors ... community feedback and tester circles are different cases).  Just my insight into things I've seen happen before.

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8 hours ago, Captain Sierra said:

Honestly, like most projects like it, people generally find it not worth it because project managing and concept/idea generation are things that have value in the corporate world, but those sentiments are not echoed in modding communities where the 3D artists, coders, and other modders are producing their content free of charge. The reasoning for this based on my observations is that those contributions are intangibles, whereas code, 3D assets, even config tweaks, are tangible. There is a measurable contribution and when nobody is getting paid for these projects, it seems those who produce tangible contributions do not see value in those contributing intangibles

I think the question is more about confidence that the project will lead to something useful. Coders and artists have the advantage that they can start by themselves and then show off first results. Or already have a reputation as a modder.

It is much harder for leaders. Leading without actual power is hard, without meeting in person even more. Sometimes the only thing we know about this person is that he wants to lead. So it is much harder to create this kind of trust in a person or project.

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14 hours ago, pellinor said:

I think the question is more about confidence that the project will lead to something useful. Coders and artists have the advantage that they can start by themselves and then show off first results. Or already have a reputation as a modder.

It is much harder for leaders. Leading without actual power is hard, without meeting in person even more. Sometimes the only thing we know about this person is that he wants to lead. So it is much harder to create this kind of trust in a person or project.

I like this assessment. It ties back into the tangibles vs intangibles concept in a different angle.

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I put the gamedata file into my KSP and put all the mods needed into that gamedata. And i have ModuleManager.2.6.16.dll but only the default tech tree shows up on KSP pls halp

Edited by jjowner
Pls halp

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Greetings,

I will check out CFF...I may be suggesting some coding to move old parts to the new patch form.

You have to manually go to each part and either change the parts cfg file which in my opinion may may still be easier as you only have to change one field; other wise you have to copy 2 fields to incorporate the patch format.

Personally - I HATE patches; they add length to coding; I am a firm believer in hard coding; if I have to research every part anyways I am just going to my old tech tree and add them from that list; or make the changes as such.

There are new parts in stock now; still doesnt matter and there is no problem to change their node location in their cfg file; in my honest opinion; there are several stock parts I want to move.

Commander Zeta

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I have a question ? I use Tac life support instead of USI life support. Will this fill in the life support tree ?

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7 hours ago, Antonio432 said:

I have a question ? I use Tac life support instead of USI life support. Will this fill in the life support tree ?

Sort of. There's a file called TacLifeSupport/MM_TAC-LS_CTT.cfg.disabled; if you rename it to without the ".disabled" bit then the recyclers will be put in Recycling or Enhanced Survivability. Any other changes (like moving the bigger containers to the life support tree) you'll have to do yourself.

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7 hours ago, Starstrider42 said:

Sort of. There's a file called TacLifeSupport/MM_TAC-LS_CTT.cfg.disabled; if you rename it to without the ".disabled" bit then the recyclers will be put in Recycling or Enhanced Survivability. Any other changes (like moving the bigger containers to the life support tree) you'll have to do yourself.

Ok. But I don't know how to move parts around tech trees. How do i do that ?

Edited by Antonio432

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13 hours ago, Antonio432 said:

Ok. But I don't know how to move parts around tech trees. How do i do that ?

There is information in the first post about assigning parts to tech nodes.

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11 hours ago, Nertea said:

There is information in the first post about assigning parts to tech nodes.

Thanks!

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I installed this mod with the add-ons listed in the front page, in the order they are listed. And now my game seems to crash when recovering my vessels. It seems to me that it only started when I began using heat shields. Anyone else getting this bug?

 

Btw, am I supposed to delete older versions of mod manager from the Kerbal GameData?

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MM only use latest version of dll, older ones are just ignored, but you can safely delete all but latest MM plugin.

Output log might help to reveal a reason for CTD, but most common one besides of faulty installs/mod conflicts is lack of free memory.

Lack of free memory can be more easy detected with additional tools like graphic memory monitor, so you can save game end exit before CTD occur.

Doubt that anyone can tell you more without further info.

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Lol, I though the next release of CTT wasn't untill  KSP 1.1,  but this early release is more than welcome. So many new nodes to fill. I feel like a kid in a candy store :cool:

One thing I don't like though, is that Fusion Rockets only  requirement is High Efficient Nuclear propulsion. I would rather see this to be Experimental Nuclear Propulsion, which I see the logical predecessor and will link it with the experimental

Another logical change would be that  Ultra High Energy  Physics would require either Antimatter Power or High Energy Science. This means the link with Exotic Fusion Reactions must be removed.

Because Microwave Power Transmission is only feasible with Specialized Solar Cells, it should require both Experimental Electrics and Advanced Solar Technology

Edit: I found an error in exoticNuclearPropulsion, it's science requirement is 2250 while it should be 1500, similar to Fusion Rockets and Fusion Power which are in the same tier.

 

 

Edited by FreeThinker

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What, if any, mods show up in colonization and advanced colonization?

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