[1.4] SpaceY Heavy-Lifter Parts Pack v1.17.1 (2018-04-02)

[Norcalplanner]

NecroBones,

I just wanted to let you know that I'm featuring your parts in my entry for GregroxMun's Apollo Applications Program challenge. I'll be posting everything on my mission report thread. To give you a taste, here's my Saturn V:

[NecroBones]

Nice to see you still going on with this. Still one of the first mods I much have and install for decent launchers.

I was wondering if there are any specific directions where you take this pack or if there are things you still feel are missing. Just out of curiosity

Keep up the good work!

Thanks, glad you're enjoying it. As far as a specific direction, I think we're pretty much there already. I'm going to put the "1.0" stamp on it sooner or later, but at this point I might wait for KSP's Unity 5 conversion, since I'm not sure what that will do to the mods.

I'm not planning any major changes or overhauls for this mod at this point. I still have a few things written on my list as "maybe" items, such as extra long ladders, and super heavy landing legs. But what I'm realizing is that some of those things might be better suited to other mod packs. I could see making a leg pack, a ladder pack, a command pod pack, etc. One thing I've learned is that it's easier to get people to like and use your mod when it's more specific in focus, and doesn't contain 100+ parts.

So I'm keeping in mind what this mod's original stated purpose was: To be similar to the KSP 0.23.5 "ARM" pack, just at the next size up. That is, to provide one larger diameter of rocket parts, but also to flesh out that diameter (and the missing 3.75m corresponding parts), so that it's useful. That means reaction wheels, probe cores, and docking ports, and larger RCS/OMS pods, and some beefy SRB options too. We're basically there.

In fact, the SRBs are part of what prompted me to make this. I always felt the stock SRBs were a bit anemic. I balanced these against the NASA "kickback" SRB, in terms of propellant density, ISP, and cost. But made the TWR much more favorable.

Long story short, this mod is more about getting off the ground with big rocket parts, than anything else. But that doesn't mean we'll stop there, since more mod packs can always happen.

The large unmanned Command rings are really big. Couldn't they contain a substantial amount of torque and battery in that large space?

Yes, that's true. My thought was to add more battery at the very least. I'll take another look, but in order to keep things balanced, the mass might have to go up if I start adding things to it. Part of the reason for the thickness is to make them easier to attach in the VAB/SPH, since ultra-thin parts like to stick inside things or snap on with the wrong attachment node.

I've love to see a 5m command pod that can hold 20+ kerbals haah! something like this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/07/Big_Gemini.png

Heh, wow. Yeah, my hope is to make a variety of command pods at some point, in their own mod pack. Something that huge, though? We'll have to see. The exterior isn't a problem at all, it's a question of how much pain I'm willing to endure for the interior. But then again, sometimes a pod can be more than just a pod, right? What if it had an internal service bay? Hmmm...

...The new RCS looks like a swastika...

Nah, a lot of historical RCS thruster blocks had offset positions, to accommodate the fuel supply and thrust chambers.

NecroBones,

I just wanted to let you know that I'm featuring your parts in my entry for GregroxMun's Apollo Applications Program challenge. I'll be posting everything on my mission report thread. To give you a taste, here's my Saturn V:

http://i.imgur.com/64gAhDX.png

Awesome! I'll check it out, but I love the screenshot already.

[MarcAlain]

Heh, wow. Yeah, my hope is to make a variety of command pods at some point, in their own mod pack. Something that huge, though? We'll have to see. The exterior isn't a problem at all, it's a question of how much pain I'm willing to endure for the interior. But then again, sometimes a pod can be more than just a pod, right? What if it had an internal service bay? Hmmm...

.

Well at this point there are a few pod options, especially in the 2 and 3 man space. There's only one 6 man ( NEAR Future), one 7 man (Taurus) and one 8 man pod (it doesn't fit well with the game and it is a Big Gemini pod that looks a little too realistic). Some options in the 7+ category would be great, especially if it used a smaller pod as a base then added a crew compartment. Say, a 6-8 man pod (or have compatibility with Taurus) then a crew compartment that could be added to take the pod from that to 5m.

[NecroBones]

The large unmanned Command rings are really big. Couldn't they contain a substantial amount of torque and battery in that large space?

Yes, that's true. My thought was to add more battery at the very least. I'll take another look, but in order to keep things balanced, the mass might have to go up if I start adding things to it. Part of the reason for the thickness is to make them easier to attach in the VAB/SPH, since ultra-thin parts like to stick inside things or snap on with the wrong attachment node.

I took a look, and I'm going ahead and bumping up the torque and battery. The mass they already had was pretty high for what they provided. They're getting about 2/3 more torque, and triple the battery.

Well at this point there are a few pod options, especially in the 2 and 3 man space. There's only one 6 man ( NEAR Future), one 7 man (Taurus) and one 8 man pod (it doesn't fit well with the game and it is a Big Gemini pod that looks a little too realistic). Some options in the 7+ category would be great, especially if it used a smaller pod as a base then added a crew compartment. Say, a 6-8 man pod (or have compatibility with Taurus) then a crew compartment that could be added to take the pod from that to 5m.

One thing I'm considering already is a 2-man capsule (Gemini-like), at 1.875m diameter, with its own optional adapter to 2.5m. The thought here being that 1.25m isn't really big enough to sit two guys side by side, and the part will work with 1.875m parts from other mods (if they exist), but also will work regularly on a 2.5m stack as well.

A 5 or 6-man 3.75m capsule would be cool too. Lots of options, for sure.

[mikegarrison]

A 5 or 6-man 3.75m capsule would be cool too. Lots of options, for sure.

Not to tell you what to do with your mod, but I really like the 6-man 2.5->3.75 "heavy command module" from Near Future Spacecraft.

In order to avoid mod bloat, I kind of like it when mods focus only on limited areas rather than all duplicating each other. Putting it into a separate package is a good idea, so that people can download your tanks and rockets and not your pods (or vice versa).

[NecroBones]

Not to tell you what to do with your mod, but I really like the 6-man 2.5->3.75 "heavy command module" from Near Future Spacecraft.

In order to avoid mod bloat, I kind of like it when mods focus only on limited areas rather than all duplicating each other. Putting it into a separate package is a good idea, so that people can download your tanks and rockets and not your pods (or vice versa).

I totally agree. I'll take a look at what's out there before making pods.

[Kerbas_ad_astra]

One thing I'm considering already is a 2-man capsule (Gemini-like), at 1.875m diameter, with its own optional adapter to 2.5m. The thought here being that 1.25m isn't really big enough to sit two guys side by side, and the part will work with 1.875m parts from other mods (if they exist), but also will work regularly on a 2.5m stack as well.

Homegrown Rockets provides 1.875m parts, and is pretty good for the missions that need more mass in LKO than the 1.25m stuff, but where a 2.5m rocket would be too heavy for a level 2 launchpad. It already has a Gemini-like 2-crew capsule, the Radish:

I think there's still room for a more Dragon-like capsule, maybe one that has a 1.25m nose (more round and snubby than conical, kind of like your MRS LAS shroud). Socke was working on a capsule like that for his slightly more stockalike 1.875m parts pack, but then his hard drive failed (look at images 4 and 5):

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[NecroBones]

Homegrown Rockets provides 1.875m parts, and is pretty good for the missions that need more mass in LKO than the 1.25m stuff, but where a 2.5m rocket would be too heavy for a level 2 launchpad. It already has a Gemini-like 2-crew capsule, the Radish:

http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y477/morrowindorion/RadishWIP_zpsvpvwuvmx.png

I think there's still room for a more Dragon-like capsule, maybe one that has a 1.25m nose (more round and snubby than conical, kind of like your MRS LAS shroud). Socke was working on a capsule like that for his slightly more stockalike 1.875m parts pack, but then his hard drive failed (look at images 4 and 5):

http://imgur.com/a/3SgcX

OK, that's good to know. I was thinking of his pack actually when I was thinking along the lines of 1.875m, but I didn't remember that he had included a pod (I probably looked at the mod early in its development). This definitely narrows the range of pods that I might want to work on. You're right, a curved "Dragon" like pod can still work, as can some larger crew modules or capsules that have different design considerations than what's out there. I do just need to be careful not to overly duplicate existing pods.

I'm not sure when I'll start on the pods yet, in any case.

EDIT: Of course it might make sense to add a Dragon-like capsule to this mod, due to the theme, but it's all up in the air right now, so to speak.

Edited May 21, 2015 by NecroBones

[DDay2021]

New update is up. For the new RCS block, I figured we could start with a thrust of 7 and see how it goes, and also bumped the smaller Dibamous to an RCS thrust of 5 (from 4). Since the larger Dubamous has RCS thrust of 10 already, this seems like a pretty good spread.

Necro - Finally had a chance to test the new 5 port RCS block last night and it works like a champ. Makes trying to spin a class E asteroid easier. Thanks so much for implementing it.

Now, if someone would just fix the way that RCS is implemented in the game, to include the stupid RCS/SAS/Gimbal chatter. This is me just venting my frustration at the full speed ahead, oops too far, full speed back approach that the game uses, not another request.

[NecroBones]

Necro - Finally had a chance to test the new 5 port RCS block last night and it works like a champ. Makes trying to spin a class E asteroid easier. Thanks so much for implementing it.

Now, if someone would just fix the way that RCS is implemented in the game, to include the stupid RCS/SAS/Gimbal chatter. This is me just venting my frustration at the full speed ahead, oops too far, full speed back approach that the game uses, not another request.

Heh, glad to hear it's working well. Yeah, the SAS over-correction may always be a problem. Sometimes it works well, and sometimes not. I've gotten to the point that I mostly use SAS to maintain a heading, rather than execute my turns for me.

[klefenz]

I seem to be having an issue with the 5m decoupler, its not rigid enough.

Like seriously, in my latest rocket it would bend a lot, so i changed it for a 3.75 m stock decoupler and it didnt bend anymore.

I looked at the config and couldnt find anything about rigidity, maybe the bulkhead whatever entry?

[NecroBones]

I seem to be having an issue with the 5m decoupler, its not rigid enough.

Like seriously, in my latest rocket it would bend a lot, so i changed it for a 3.75 m stock decoupler and it didnt bend anymore.

I looked at the config and couldnt find anything about rigidity, maybe the bulkhead whatever entry?

Hmmm. Yeah, I'm not sure what to say. There are breaking force and breaking torque numbers, but those are already set 50x higher than the stock 3.75m decoupler. The bulkheadProfile variable only handles menu categories in the VAB/SPH. I'm wondering if the flexibility is defined by the attachment node size, and stock KSP may be treating anything larger than size 3 as size 3 (and obviously being size 4, these parts are much more massive). I think the best thing I can recommend is Kerbal Joint Reinforcement.

[NecroBones]

I'm considering the idea of switching the engine bell's heat glow (on all engines) to operate based on throttle rather than heat. Stock KSP gives us two main ways to animate engine glow, "FXModuleAnimateThrottle" and "ModuleAnimateHeat". The throttle-based one exists for the ion engine. Since it has a "response speed" variable in it, it's possible to use this to get the glow animation to behave more like the pre-1.0 engine glows we were used to. That is, the glow will slowly rise as the engine runs, and slowly taper off when you cut the engine.

The caveat is that it would no longer be tied to temperature at all, so the maximum glow brightness would always be dependent on throttle and nothing else. Plus, the engine would still light up when you increase throttle, even if you're out of electric charge (and thus can't actually start the engine), or you're out of fuel.

On the other hand, this would solve the problem of having long-persistent engine glow just because the whole ship is hot, plus allow the glow to start up quickly when the engines are start.

I'm wondering if Squad gets enough comments about how the engine glow is working in stock, maybe they'll change how it works, or add another heat animation mode or something. But until then, these are the options we have.

[Wahgineer]

Here's an idea for a 5m capsule: make it a self contained biconic spacecraft capable of gliding through the atmosphere(similar to what ESA is doing).

[SemiaCloud]

The only parts showing up are the 5m to 2.5m quad adapter and those big seperatrons.

By the way you should make a bunch of parts that are like dream chaser or the x37, but they are one part.

[NecroBones]

Here's an idea for a 5m capsule: make it a self contained biconic spacecraft capable of gliding through the atmosphere(similar to what ESA is doing).

Huh, might have to look at that.

The only parts showing up are the 5m to 2.5m quad adapter and those big seperatrons.

By the way you should make a bunch of parts that are like dream chaser or the x37, but they are one part.

I've had mixed feelings about "all in one" parts, since it gets in the way of building your own stuff. But more robust command pods or "lifting body" parts might be cool at some point.

For the missing parts, check that you've unlocked them all in the R&D building (tech tree). It's usually either that, or another mod messing with the tech tree.

[NecroBones]

Updated:

0.14.1 (2015-05-28) - Balance tweaks
 - Increased cost, torque, and battery capacity in both probe cores. 
 - Improved ISP for most engines at extreme atmospheric pressures (Eve). 
 - Changed flag/agency images back to PNG format so they'll work again.

[SemiaCloud]

Huh, might have to look at that.

I've had mixed feelings about "all in one" parts, since it gets in the way of building your own stuff. But more robust command pods or "lifting body" parts might be cool at some point.

For the missing parts, check that you've unlocked them all in the R&D building (tech tree). It's usually either that, or another mod messing with the tech tree.

It is in sandbox and the only other mods i have are hyperedit and mechjeb.

[NecroBones]

It is in sandbox and the only other mods i have are hyperedit and mechjeb.

OK, I think I know what it is then. You've probably renamed the directory, or installed it somewhere it's not expecting to be. Most of the parts specify the full folder path for their models (since that's required when using the "MODEL {}" syntax). The Ejectatron is one of the few that doesn't do this.

Double check that the mod is installed as "SpaceY-Lifters" directly in GameData.

[curiousepic]

@NecroBones, first of all, great mod, so congratulations!

I'm finding a strange issue with the last version, only visual. For some reason the first stage (obviously when throttled) did not show the.. how can I say.. "fire" caming out from the rockets, but it works anyway correctly. Have you ever encountered this problem?

Thanks

I'm getting this issue with the Ratites. rawghi said they found an imcompatability with QuizTech, but I've never had that installed. I did however recently switch to the win64 version.

[NecroBones]

I'm getting this issue with the Ratites. rawghi said they found an imcompatability with QuizTech, but I've never had that installed. I did however recently switch to the win64 version.

Yeah, I'm not sure what causes this for some people. The most likely cause is that there's another mod interfering, by making it think that HotRockets is installed, when it actually isn't. The MM configs that replace the stock rocket effects should only kick in when HotRockets is present.

It might be worth looking at your KSP.log, and see if MM is processing anything on the engines.

But that might also be a good fix-- install HotRockets.

[curiousepic]

Yeah, I'm not sure what causes this for some people. The most likely cause is that there's another mod interfering, by making it think that HotRockets is installed, when it actually isn't. The MM configs that replace the stock rocket effects should only kick in when HotRockets is present.

It might be worth looking at your KSP.log, and see if MM is processing anything on the engines.

But that might also be a good fix-- install HotRockets.

I thought I'd had HotRockets installed, but it looks good now. Love your part packs btw!

[NecroBones]

I thought I'd had HotRockets installed, but it looks good now. Love your part packs btw!

Thanks! Glad it's working now. Awesome.

[MarcAlain]

Have you considered making parts between the largest stock and the largest ones you make?

Also, what engine did you intend on us using for a mid stage engine for the 5m parts? The M9 Moa doesn't have a bottom node. Is that what all the engine plates are for? I currently use the rose interstage part with the highest powered single SpaceY Engines for a mid stage.

[NecroBones]

Have you considered making parts between the largest stock and the largest ones you make?

Also, what engine did you intend on us using for a mid stage engine for the 5m parts? The M9 Moa doesn't have a bottom node. Is that what all the engine plates are for? I currently use the rose interstage part with the highest powered single SpaceY Engines for a mid stage.

No, not really. The stock sizes are all multiples of 1.25m (0.5x, 1x, 2x, 3x), so 5m was simply the next standard size up. Half way between 3.75m and 5m would be something like 4.375m, which I'm not sure there's a pressing need for.

But yep, the M5 is really the only "main" upper stage engine included for that diameter, with the M9 and R5 meant for lower stages. But the thrust plates allow you to use various combinations of the smaller engines, as a customizable configuration system.

If you haven't looked at the M5 yet, take a look at that one, as it's intended for upper stages.