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[1.11.x] Alcubierre Warp Drive (Stand-alone)


RoverDude
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You don't even need two action groups just one which is set on a toggle for both engines. Even though it works by translation though it moves in the direction you are pointing and sometimes when activating your navball shakes or turns which then causes you to go in a weird direction. My advice would be to just give it enough throttle to activate and start moving you then wait for it to stabilize. Once it stabilizes it usually doesn't move and you can smooth throttle it to max with out problems, usually.

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Are you sure you are talking about the warp drive? Just asking because it makes no sense what you describe, since the alcubierre drive is using translation, it moves space around the ship, not accelerating the ships mass in any direction.

Maybe you have another engine running at the same time ? Try to set up two action groups, one to shutdown the warpdrive and activate the conventional engines and another one to activate warp drive and shutdown conventional engines, use those to make sure you are not having both engine types active at the same time.

Yes, I the warp drives.. lol I understand how warp drives work, which is why this is such a weird behavior.. I'll go back and try making SURE everything is off, but I thought I had already done that.

Once I start the warp drive, it eventually curves to a side... It's like going to warp exacerbates even the tiniest bit of turning movement 1000%, so even tho the ship appears to be motionless, once I go to warp, it turns because of that or something.

Edit: I kinda wish we had a navigation/targeting system for this warp drive.. Some way to improve the accuracy, and not rely on repeated jumps to get into orbit.. :/ heh If only we could plan maneuver nodes for it.

Edited by NikoKun
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@NikoKun - that torque has to do with how in the current release version of the drive Roverdude kept the kraken from slapping your ship apart.

The beehive version is better but does have issues still. There may be another option that might make the kraken issue moot all together but it needs more testing.

So, hang on, the next version of the drive is better as far as that goes, or might be lots better.

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@NikoKun - that torque has to do with how in the current release version of the drive Roverdude kept the kraken from slapping your ship apart.

The beehive version is better but does have issues still. There may be another option that might make the kraken issue moot all together but it needs more testing.

So, hang on, the next version of the drive is better as far as that goes, or might be lots better.

Ah, interesting. Well then, I can't wait for the next version! ;D Anxious to try building an explorer ship for multi-planet visits.. heh

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I'm really looking forward to what Rover does for 1.0.

Side note : I'm working on some stuff with the Alcubierre drive in the mean time. I did a pull request for the krakensbane translation code last night so next version should have that so our ships will no longer rattle apart. In my test DLL I can throttle up to full warp immediately with no boom - though there are still risks. Sometimes doing that your actual speed goes to some insane number and your ship rips apart. So, would still suggest throttling up rather than hitting the full throttle button.

The momentum preservation version (rather than velocity preservation which is the current behavior) version of the drive is almost ready too.

I think it'll be set-able by a button in the VAB/SPH rather than a separate part. Though separate part would allow some different characteristics because the mechanics are different. In some ways it is easier and more intuitive to use, but in other ways it is much harder so not sure what the balance should be, any ideas or suggestions?

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I'm really looking forward to what Rover does for 1.0.

Side note : I'm working on some stuff with the Alcubierre drive in the mean time. I did a pull request for the krakensbane translation code last night so next version should have that so our ships will no longer rattle apart. In my test DLL I can throttle up to full warp immediately with no boom - though there are still risks. Sometimes doing that your actual speed goes to some insane number and your ship rips apart. So, would still suggest throttling up rather than hitting the full throttle button.

The momentum preservation version (rather than velocity preservation which is the current behavior) version of the drive is almost ready too.

I think it'll be set-able by a button in the VAB/SPH rather than a separate part. Though separate part would allow some different characteristics because the mechanics are different. In some ways it is easier and more intuitive to use, but in other ways it is much harder so not sure what the balance should be, any ideas or suggestions?

Honestly, if you sort out a better mechanism that makes the drive act more 'Alcubierre-like', I'd just roll it into the core part ;)

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The momentum preservation version (rather than velocity preservation which is the current behavior) version of the drive is almost ready too.
Err, what's the difference? Since absent any changes in mass momentum is just mass times velocity. The exotic matter and xenon consumed at warp is negligible mass is it not.
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Doing research on what people in the know think that an Alcubierre drive would do there is some disagreement on how it would behave in reality, if possible. Some learning on the drive below.

tl;dr "Alcubierre-Like" is actually right in both cases because we don't know and there are good arguments for each.

The first version is effectively what we already have. The drive decouples anything inside the warp bubble from space-time and you retain your current travel direction and raw velocity, your linear momentum is conserved. Upon turning off the drive you resume at your current velocity wherever you happen to be in a gravity well. This grants you a ton of free energy in the form of potential energy. FTL is possible because you are not actually a part of the universe while warping so the speed limit law doesn't apply to you. In my opinion this one has a lot of problems and most of the criticisms to the drive being physically impossible come from this one (being able to arrive before you left, not being able to shut off the drive because you can't interact with space time to tell it to stop warping, and other such problems that come with trying to get around relativity)

The second version (what Serino and I are working on), is based on the idea that the Alcubierre drive does not decouple you from space-time. Instead you are surfing on a wave of space. You do not move, space moves you. This is the original way I saw an Alcubierre drive described and its the reason we see two rings on a lot of warp ship concepts, the one in front contracts space the one behind expands it. Or in the case of our single part the ring torques space in a similar pattern. In that case to have no g-forces while moving through space on your space wave as you gain potential energy by "climbing" a gravity well your raw velocity would have to drop so your orbital energy and magnitude of angular momentum is conserved while your direction of travel is also preserved so you do not pull g's upon de-activation of the drive. If you think about it the only times you pull g's while doing orbital maneuvers is when you change your orbital energy. This means when warping from Kerbin to Jool, you need to gain energy to match orbits rather than lose it. So in this version you do not get any free energy. However the differences in energies involved are not as huge with the first version so I find it's easier to use and more intuitive. FTL is possible in this case because you are not moving, and there is no known limit to how fast space can move itself.

This one is less problematic because you never leave space, you are only cheating as far as the speed limit goes. But, you're not because you're not moving any differently than you were before you activated the drive. Relativity still applies based on your reference frame when you turned on the drive and current gravitational effects. However, this is the one where there's a legitimate concern that you would build up a gamma ray shockwave on the front of your ship that would be released upon shutting off the drive, however, that too is also disputed.

(Side note: the way KSP's engine works while warping your g-meter bounces. This is krakensbane at work. Usually the game isn't registering any g-forces if you press F3).

That all said, KSPI's Alcubierre drive is the velocity drive. If you all would like this one to be the orbital momentum only version it certainly simplifies things for me as my test DLL is already built that way.

@cantab: It's not linear momentum being conserved, it's orbital momentum (angular momentum). Your kinetic energy decreases as your potential energy increases so your linear momentum at any moment is not going to be the same, but this is true when orbiting as well. You have your maximum linear momentum at periapsis, and the least at apoapsis.

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in layman's terms one possible version, the kind that KSPI and Rover have, contracts space, imagine 1km of real distance turns into 1 meter of distance for you, so that you effectivly travel faster without actually having to while the other version, what helaeon and I are trying to do, is like if the ground under your car ripped free of the earth zoomed off to another place and then set itself back down. You and your car never actually moved from where you were, where you are just moved to a new location.

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woohoo! :D Totally wasn't expecting this update for a while! Thanks a bunch for all your hard work!

Now off to design the perfect warp-class exploration ship! >;]

Until I find a mod that adds other star-systems, I don't think I'll ever need to get near top speed. heh

Edited by NikoKun
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@helaeon and @Serino, the two Alcubierre models sound much like the debate between n-body vs patched conics models, with what you are working on being the more realistic 'n-body-like'. If you can create a version that is more 'realistic' than even KSP goes with its non n-body physics, more power to you. Thanks for your dedication to making the experience greater for everyone.

Side note: the n-body vs conics debate has NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS MOD DIRECTLY (I think), since start to stop of the drive is outside physics.

- - - Updated - - -

Until I find a mod that adds other star-systems, I don't think I'll ever need to get near top speed. heh

FWIW they are out there:

Outer Planets Mod and Working Multiple Star Systems

Gotta love the KSP modding community!

Edited by madsailor
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