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[1.12.x] Alcubierre Warp Drive (Stand-alone)


RoverDude
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Yes to the personal use thing; but if I get it to work I was going to package it all up for all to enjoy, thus why I wanted to know if anyone knew zzz's status or the license on this so I could share (it's a pretty old model from before the licensing rules so that may be indeterminate, interstellar has a pretty restrictive license if I remember correctly). I don't think that this was ever incorporated into interstellar officially so I'm not sure if there would be issues there.

Looking at it quickly it looks like all that needs to be done is replace the AlcubierreDrive module with the USI AD stuff and sane numbers for the 3 sizes of parts.

I'll do some tinkering on it this weekend and post how it goes.

EDIT : On initial tinkering it looks like it might be harder than it seemed at first inspection. I'll keep at it though.

I can get it to go and work with the plug-in properly. I can get the ring to deploy on drive activation and retract when the drive is deactivated, but no cool glowy bubble.

No warp bubble effect, it may be necessary to drill into the model and add & change some things, not sure if skills I have. That is unless someone has an alternate idea, like some sort of thrust effect like what the regular engines do, or another way to get that bubble in. - that also means no bubble guide in SPH/VAB

EDIT2: I think I have it figured out so if someone wants to do some detective work about that licensing I'll share once I have it finished.

Edited by helaeon
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ZZZ's stuff is all public domain :) That's why you see everyone use his (very nice) greenhouse module

- - - Updated - - -

Side note... I'm still around but as you can imagine (and probably saw) I am doing stuff other than resources with Squad for 1.0 - so incredibly silly busy right now

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I've been struggling with getting the drive to work. I can't generate nearly enough power and am puzzled how you guys do so. I've tried all manner of RTGs and Reactors from NearFutureElectrical, but it doesn't work; my ship just explodes.

Never run the drive with it generating exotic matter at the same time. I usually set up an action group that activates the warp drive and deactivates the EM generator. The drive itself does not need very much power, 237 ec/s max - you use less ec at lower throttle settings as it's used like a fuel. But the exotic matter generator needs something like 10k ec/s. It's meant for the EM generator to use all of your electrical stores for re-charging between warps, but the drive itself doesn't use that much.

---

I have ZZZ's models working quite well it seems so let me test some stuff out and in light of Rover's info when it's ready I'll share.

This is just a config change, but a reasonably severe one that isn't straight forward. Took me 5 or 6 attempts to get it right, I do have the warp bubble working and everything. It's quite excellent. Thanks to Arron Rift for pointing me at that

Side note I am fiddling with the balancing on ZZZ's parts as a test for where the post 1.0 will be. Yes, 1.25, 2.5, and 3.75m parts. It's the same part but scaled, it's what ZZZ did so I replicated it.

The new translation method massively increased our fuel efficiency to levels not really intended, and I want these to be different than the normal USI drives. I think I'll have the USI drives be more robust and powerful, where these will be lighter but with less range and need more power during warp. Or that's my idea right now anyway. Any suggestions or thoughts are appreciated. The drives are for everyone and I'm just one use case :)

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Never run the drive with it generating exotic matter at the same time. I usually set up an action group that activates the warp drive and deactivates the EM generator. The drive itself does not need very much power, 237 ec/s max - you use less ec at lower throttle settings as it's used like a fuel. But the exotic matter generator needs something like 10k ec/s. It's meant for the EM generator to use all of your electrical stores for re-charging between warps, but the drive itself doesn't use that much.

---

I have ZZZ's models working quite well it seems so let me test some stuff out and in light of Rover's info when it's ready I'll share.

This is just a config change, but a reasonably severe one that isn't straight forward. Took me 5 or 6 attempts to get it right, I do have the warp bubble working and everything. It's quite excellent. Thanks to Arron Rift for pointing me at that

Side note I am fiddling with the balancing on ZZZ's parts as a test for where the post 1.0 will be. Yes, 1.25, 2.5, and 3.75m parts. It's the same part but scaled, it's what ZZZ did so I replicated it.

The new translation method massively increased our fuel efficiency to levels not really intended, and I want these to be different than the normal USI drives. I think I'll have the USI drives be more robust and powerful, where these will be lighter but with less range and need more power during warp. Or that's my idea right now anyway. Any suggestions or thoughts are appreciated. The drives are for everyone and I'm just one use case :)

Glad to see you took this up, I probably would have never been able to get it working myself ;)

---edit---

actually (and I have no clue how hard this would be) it may be nice to add a button in the menu to turn off the visual bubble for people who like making cinematics, etc and want the warp to look more star wars-like, where it just whizzes away.

Edited by Arron Rift
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To make bubble go away comment out the whole node in the cfg of the appropriate part


MODEL
{
model = UmbraSpaceIndustries/WarpDrive/Assets/WarpBubble
scale = 1,1,1
}

This will be true for the new CFGs for ZZZ's models too. Which I have working but haven't tested my fuel values and such sufficiently yet. Didn't have time today, hopefully will this week.

You could make one of the rings use the the part. Bring in USI_ModuleWarpEngine module set the values appropriately

Bring in that model node from above to get the warp bubble (again set the scale value appropriately. I think with BubbleSize=20 is Scale 1,1,1 - could be wrong there).

If there is an animation that should happen when you toggle the drive on, put it in "unfoldAnimationName = "

From there set up the various resources appropriately. Not super hard, but requires some tinkering. Yes I saw someone else did it but haven't tried it myself.

Edited by helaeon
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Helaeon if you are going to make the converted ones as a lighter version, which makes sense since those things look flimsy as hell, why not do something like 1.5 the electrical cost to run while it only holds about 1/2 the fuel. This would make up for the flimsy design since there would be less space for the EM and more energy needed to keep the EM from just tearing the whole thing apart. My only thing I think could be a problem would be the fact that if you have the USI ones which are better why use the flimsy ones, also was under the impression people wanted the new model as a full replacement of the USI ones.

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Helaeon if you are going to make the converted ones as a lighter version, which makes sense since those things look flimsy as hell, why not do something like 1.5 the electrical cost to run while it only holds about 1/2 the fuel. This would make up for the flimsy design since there would be less space for the EM and more energy needed to keep the EM from just tearing the whole thing apart. My only thing I think could be a problem would be the fact that if you have the USI ones which are better why use the flimsy ones, also was under the impression people wanted the new model as a full replacement of the USI ones.

Consume way more power is exactly what I'm doing! Haha!

I was trying to make pros and cons to each drive option. For example they have a smaller bubble (still reasonable though). The 2.5m one right now I'm thinking same EM tank as the USI one, but more efficient fuel use. 3/4 size warp bubble (might go to 1/2 or 5/8). Less xenon. But probably less efficient EM conversion (so takes longer to charge and needs more power).

I may carry that through to the others as well.

Well... I want them in addition to the USI ones annnndd I'm writing the cfgs sooooooo. :P

The changes needed to the cfg is significant enough I wouldn't be super comfortable making a module manager patch. If someone wants to make a MM patch the relevant info is in here as I'm just balancing now :


PART
{
name = ZWarpDrive25 //2.5m drive
module = Part
author = Helaeon
///model by z.
rescaleFactor = 1
MODEL // this is the path for Z's model, which is 1.25m
{
model = AeonParts/ZWarpDrive/warp2
scale = 2,2,2
}
MODEL //This makes the warp bubble effect, and the guide in the VAB
{
model = UmbraSpaceIndustries/WarpDrive/Assets/WarpBubble
scale = .75,.75,.75
}
//These set where the nodes are on the model and their size
node_stack_top = 0.0, 0.60, 0.0, 0.0, 2.0, 0.0, 2
node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -0.474, 0.0, 0.0, 2.0, 0.0, 2

TechRequired = experimentalRocketry
entryCost = 2500000
cost = 1250000
category = Propulsion
subcategory = 0
title = Alcubierre Drive Z-model 2.5m
manufacturer = Zefram Kerman's Warp Supplies Co.
description = Originally designed by Zefram Kerman himself, this piece of technology is designed to sneakily evade the prohibition of faster than light travel described by the theory of relativity by translating a small subset of spacetime across space at unbelievable speeds while imparting no momentum change to the vessel at all. Since it was designed by Zefram Kerman, it may not function without the application of rock music.
attachRules = 1,1,1,1,0

mass = 5
dragModelType = default
maximum_drag = 0.2
minimum_drag = 0.15
angularDrag = 2
crashTolerance = 6
breakingForce = 12690
breakingTorque = 12690
maxTemp = 2900


--- Sound FX definition ---
sound_vent_medium = engage
sound_jet_low = running
sound_jet_deep = power
sound_vent_soft = disengage
sound_explosion_low = flameout
MODULE
{
name = USI_ModuleWarpEngine
WarpFactor = 15
deployAnimationName = Engage
warpAnimationName = WarpField
MinThrottle = 0.05
DisruptRange = 2000
BubbleSize = 15
MinAltitude = .5
MaxAccelleration = 6
unfoldAnimationName = t2 // this makes the ring unfurl
}

MODULE
{
name = FXModuleAnimateThrottle
animationName = EngineThrottle
dependOnEngineState = True
responseSpeed = 0.05
}

MODULE
{
name = REGO_ModuleResourceConverter
StartActionName = Start ExoticMatter
StopActionName = Stop ExoticMatter
RecipeInputs = ElectricCharge,10000
RecipeOutputs = ExoticMatter,1,false
}

MODULE
{
name = ModuleEngines
thrustVectorTransformName = thrustTransform
exhaustDamage = False
ignitionThreshold = 0.01
minThrust = 0
maxThrust = 100
heatProduction = 10
fxOffset = 0, 0, 0
PROPELLANT
{
name = ElectricCharge
ratio = 12
DrawGauge = True
}
PROPELLANT
{
name = ExoticMatter
ratio = 1
DrawGauge = True
}
PROPELLANT
{
name = XenonGas
ratio = .1
DrawGauge = True
}

atmosphereCurve
{
key = 0 15000
key = 1 15000
}
}

RESOURCE
{
name = ExoticMatter
amount = 12000
maxAmount = 12000
}

RESOURCE
{
name = XenonGas
amount = 750
maxAmount = 750
}

}

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Well maybe instead of a smaller warp bubble instead make it larger since it is using more power, and make it use more EM, kind of like it's slightly unstable and a barely controlled drive. This would give you a pro and some cons maybe even make it charge slightly faster to emphasize the lower safety measures.

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Those are some good ideas here's what I'm thinking in light of them:

Maybe for the 1.25 I'll drop the ISP to 8000 and make it recover EM fast (1.5 per 10000 ec).

The 2.5 I'll have it with a smaller bubble but more efficient EM wise (15000 instead of 12500), but need more power to run. But lower EM recovery rate to the USI drive, but same power to EM ratio.

Then the big one I'll give it a larger than scale bubble, need like 3000 ec/s (more?) to run, and have a faster EM recovery rate (2.5 per 10000 ec).

I have OPM now and tried to run out to Plock on the 2.5 using 12500 ISP and 6000 EM and didn't make it. Which... seems kind of silly to me. I think one should be able to make it out to Plock at least. But, that's also why I was asking how people were using the drive because if most are traveling between solar systems I'd like it to behave nice for that as well.

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Remember the drive was originally designed behind stock Kerbol system, I think, so it doesn't have a massive fuel range. Rover is working on a 5m version but I don't know how far he has gotten or what the EC and EM usage would be on it nor the storage. The question is which did you run out of EM or Zenon? If it was EM then that's solvable by using a powerful enough generator to charge while in flight, which is a bad idea normally, or to just drop out and recharge if it was zenon then pack more on. I think that a limit on how far you go is a good idea to keep a bit of challenge in it, in this case building a warp ship and the infrastructure so that it can go anywhere. My solar system mod is kind of outdated but with enough zenon stored and a large enough reactor I can make it across the gulf.

As for the ideas on how to set up the drives I recommend balancing your pros and cons like how the USI stuff does. The warp is a big pro so it's balanced by it's limited bubble size and long charge time but a more efficient drive doesn't necessarily balance out the cons of smaller bubble, longer charge time AND more power use.

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I had that thought too about being an in-system warp drive and not worrying about that it probably should be able to reach at least the nearest alien solar system...

For that run I ran out of EM not Xenon. Xenon is meant to limit the ultimate range of the drive before servicing at Kerbin. My goal with the EM was to make it so you should be able to go to any other planet from Kerbin at any time and have enough EM to do that. But for warps past about Jool I want it to charge for at least a little while before you could safely go again. Big con to warp drive is if you run out of any fuel element while warping the drive and a lot of your ship explodes.

Bubble size can be a big deal. When I set it to 62.5% of the USI size, it really limits the size of the ship. Not to an unreasonable level, but it may be necessary to take advantage of being able to attach to the wings of ZZZ's drive, or limit the length of your ship and/or lander if taking one along.

It's using a LOT more power like 7x as much. Even if you have enough power to run the converter it doesn't convert fast enough to make up for the EM consumption rate.

I've been working on the 2.5m drive. Numbers as they are now are 12.5 bubble size, 15000 ISP, 750 Xenon, 10000 EM, 7500 ec/s needed to convert .75 ec/s EM, 1000 EC/s + 67.9 EM/s + 6.8 Xe/s to run the warp bubble.

You can warp for about two in game minutes with this set up. If you bring no extra Xenon, you'll run out if you need to drain the tank twice. Kind of thinking about leaving out the xenon in the warp drive itself rather than packing enough inside for two whole tanks worth of warp. I'm thinking about making it take twice as long to recharge rather than where I have it at being 25% slow.

Where I have the numbers now, Jool's orbit requires about 2000 EM, Plock about 6500 EM and takes about a minute and a half, that doesn't include fiddling around trying to get into position or get circularized. Which I think works great for stock, but might be too aggressive for a 3.2x or 6.4x system, surely the 10x system.

Kind of hard to balance this so it generally works well without feeling too easy for stock but crippled for those more vast systems.

Compared to USI 2.5m drive : 20 bubble size, 12500 ISP, 3000 Xe, 15000 EM, 10000 Ec/s for 1 EM/s converter, 237 ec/s + 81.5 EM/s + 8.14 Xe/s to run the bubble.

You get another 40s of run time with this drive compared to the new one.

Also, don't know what RoverDude is doing with Regolith and how it may affect the workings of the CFGs for the WarpDrive for 1.0. I think these cfgs I'm okay with and I can pack them up for people to fiddle with if nothing is changing as far as the converter for the WarpDrive module is concerned. I'll be away from KSP and my computer generally next week so I can put them up this weekend or wait until I get back to ensure they're 1.0 compliant.

I do appreciate the feedback :) It's quite helpful.

Thought you guys might like some pictures (the warp bubble is just a bit bigger than this ship. A square shaped lander would fit on the front, but not much more)

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Edited by helaeon
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Very cool :)

Side note, your config should only need a minor edit once 1.0 comes out, if you need help let me know.

I'll have to hunt down my notes, but basically the 5M drive would have vastly superior range, but correspondingly high mass and power usage.

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Max Acceleration variable comes from when the ship used to shake apart, it kept the thing from blowing up if you took the throttle to 100% immediately. If you right click on the warp part and watch your speed you'll notice it does not immediately change, the lag on the throttle is controlled by this value.

Try different values: I haven't messed with it since we gave translation duties over to krakensbane. It may not be necessary any more and it may be the reason for backwards warping at low orbital velocities.

I will heavily comment up one of the .cfgs when I package these other warp drives up for release. I'm shooting for this weekend but I have a ton of RL work to do so I may not be able to until after 1.0. I'll be back next weekend so I'll get them up then for sure.

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So helaeon the ZZZ drive is meant more of an in system drive? I don't see much reason to use it over the USI one since it has a smaller bubble and can't be run as long. Is it lighter and cheaper with more connection points? Sorry I just don't understand from the numbers you gave why anyone would want to use those over the USI ones.

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Much lighter (weighs about 1/3rd so you get far better delta-V on your non-warp engines), same cost, way more connection points (you seem to be able to radially attach to it though it's not necessarily 100% safe to do so), drive itself is smaller, it also uses about 30% less xenon per run time so you can service it less if you tack on more xenon tanks so you are carrying the same amount as the USI drive.

The weight idea came from wanting to make the USI drive seem more robust and reliable for larger and heavier ships, but the ZZZ drive more efficient and lighter for a more compact ship or warp SSTOs being that they fold up - that's the other thing it does, making space planes with the ZZZ drive is easy and awesome.

You're right though I do need to re-visit those numbers... but I'm also expecting the USI drive to get nerfed quite a bit too and I was making these under that expectation. I think in the case of a interstellar drive for people running those kinds of mods a MM patch is necessary, same for 3.2x, 6.4x, 10x systems. I think the thing to do there would be to increase the ISP by the factor of the scale of the system, same with the electricity use (because it's used as a fuel).

The fuel values on the USI drive are still based on 1.6c being the top speed, where I'm basing this on 15c being top speed (it's like massively increasing TWR).

@RoverDude want me to go over the USI drives too and balance them all together (or if you've already done it, share values so I can make these have different trade-offs)? Make the ZZZ drives part of the official pack or have it be a different folder/separate pack that references USI for assets where needed?

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I had that thought too about being an in-system warp drive and not worrying about that it probably should be able to reach at least the nearest alien solar system...

For that run I ran out of EM not Xenon. Xenon is meant to limit the ultimate range of the drive before servicing at Kerbin. My goal with the EM was to make it so you should be able to go to any other planet from Kerbin at any time and have enough EM to do that. But for warps past about Jool I want it to charge for at least a little while before you could safely go again. Big con to warp drive is if you run out of any fuel element while warping the drive and a lot of your ship explodes.

Bubble size can be a big deal. When I set it to 62.5% of the USI size, it really limits the size of the ship. Not to an unreasonable level, but it may be necessary to take advantage of being able to attach to the wings of ZZZ's drive, or limit the length of your ship and/or lander if taking one along.

It's using a LOT more power like 7x as much. Even if you have enough power to run the converter it doesn't convert fast enough to make up for the EM consumption rate.

I've been working on the 2.5m drive. Numbers as they are now are 12.5 bubble size, 15000 ISP, 750 Xenon, 10000 EM, 7500 ec/s needed to convert .75 ec/s EM, 1000 EC/s + 67.9 EM/s + 6.8 Xe/s to run the warp bubble.

You can warp for about two in game minutes with this set up. If you bring no extra Xenon, you'll run out if you need to drain the tank twice. Kind of thinking about leaving out the xenon in the warp drive itself rather than packing enough inside for two whole tanks worth of warp. I'm thinking about making it take twice as long to recharge rather than where I have it at being 25% slow.

Where I have the numbers now, Jool's orbit requires about 2000 EM, Plock about 6500 EM and takes about a minute and a half, that doesn't include fiddling around trying to get into position or get circularized. Which I think works great for stock, but might be too aggressive for a 3.2x or 6.4x system, surely the 10x system.

Kind of hard to balance this so it generally works well without feeling too easy for stock but crippled for those more vast systems.

Compared to USI 2.5m drive : 20 bubble size, 12500 ISP, 3000 Xe, 15000 EM, 10000 Ec/s for 1 EM/s converter, 237 ec/s + 81.5 EM/s + 8.14 Xe/s to run the bubble.

You get another 40s of run time with this drive compared to the new one.

Also, don't know what RoverDude is doing with Regolith and how it may affect the workings of the CFGs for the WarpDrive for 1.0. I think these cfgs I'm okay with and I can pack them up for people to fiddle with if nothing is changing as far as the converter for the WarpDrive module is concerned. I'll be away from KSP and my computer generally next week so I can put them up this weekend or wait until I get back to ensure they're 1.0 compliant.

I do appreciate the feedback :) It's quite helpful.

Thought you guys might like some pictures (the warp bubble is just a bit bigger than this ship. A square shaped lander would fit on the front, but not much more)

http://imgur.com/a/7pqfA

I really want this version. It looks so.... Sleek. Also, awesome.

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For some reason, whenever I try to load the game with the mod installed, it crashes. And just this mod, no other mod does this. The logs show something related to a resource error. Could anyone help?

EDIT: Oops, meant Error In CheckBubbleDeployment, not resources. They were next to each other :P

Edited by WPENG730
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WPENG730 do you have Regolith installed too and the current version? Check RoverDude's signature. Make sure you have the newest WarpDrive and install that first, then install the newest Regolith. It's very important that all the folders are in the right place too don't make them different than what RoverDude has in his zip. The cfgs explicitly give paths to certain assets (because we have to).

Mekan1k - It's on it's way. It's working perfect in-game, but you have to replace the drive part each time you update certain parts of the CFG - the fuel tank mostly, so I want to make sure it's in a good place before sharing to reduce issues with ships and saves. I think I'm going to wait until I'm back from vacation and can set it up from 1.0 because I want to make sure it's balanced nicely with RoverDude's 1.0 stuff. So, next weekend!

Something else to think about and I'd like opinions on : One of the coolest things about this warp-drive is that it works nice on an space plane, do you want me to make it so you need to be careful about the heating on it? Or should it be mostly in line with the rest of the space plane parts?

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The best thing to do currently is balance it around what the USI drive does now, in case Rover wants to leave it as is, or to write an MM to go with yours that balances the USI drive down to yours. I personally think balancing it against the way USI is now is the better option because then it makes it easier to change later if USI gets rebalanced.

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Regarding the prior discussion, I'd be fine with it being for in-system warp only. The main thing I was wanting out of it was something that could fit on moderately sixed SSTO and spaceplanes (since I love those) looping right over the wings while still allowing clearance for landing gear. The main benefit in this setup is because most SSTOs can only get to Minimus at most without refueling, and this would provide greater range if you are willing to deal with the whacky orbital mechanics that translation causes.

I was mostly hoping to build tiny, challenging-to-engineer ships that could fly to LKO and warp to Lathe without staging or refueling (though probably with several aerobrakes, etc since there would be so little fuel).

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