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1 hour ago, SunlitZelkova said:

would the dinosaurs even have been able to detect the asteroid that hit Earth? Even if they had the means to stop it?

Always a fun topic of speculation... 

There is a theory that starting about 200 Mya (perhaps 290 Mya) there was a dramatic uptick in bombardment. Typically, we think that bombardment happens because the KBOs or Asteroids get displaced 'somehow' - but Omuamua teaches us that it's possible for extra-solar objects to fall in.  What we don't know is whether, like comet trails that give us regular meteor showers, if the solar system passes through dust clouds that might explain bombardment periods. 

I suspect that if they'd had the technology, they'd have tried.  I've read some speculation that breaking up a large meteor could be worse - turning a bullet that might miss into a shotgun that won't... But, the K-Pg is just such an event that it would have been worth it to try. 

Interestingly, I've also read that the K-Pg event might have not been a total wipe had it made landfall rather than striking where it did.  Turning it into a bunch of smaller meteors, then, would have spread out the strike zones and maybe, just maybe the raptors could have survived? 

(the question, though, about detection is difficult - Omuamua sheds light on this!) 

Edited by JoeSchmuckatelli
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1 hour ago, SunlitZelkova said:

First, a message to @intelliCom continued from the DART thread where we were told to stay on topic.

You can learn about the presence of alien life on exoplanets on the KSP forum. The entire forum is dedicated to alien spaceflight!

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/forum/3-kerbal-space-program/

Second, a question not really related to DART so I put it here.

I have seen a lot of comments in jest making fun of the terrestrial dinosaurs for not having a space program. But how logical are these statements?

Based on human technological standards circa the 2020s, would the dinosaurs even have been able to detect the asteroid that hit Earth? Even if they had the means to stop it?

Not much* is known about the origin of the asteroid that caused the K-Pg extinction event, for all we know it came from the Kuiper Belt and could not have been stopped.

*I feel like I may have seen an article about this a year ago or so but I didn’t see anything in my saved links. I still could be wrong though

That comment about alien life was sarcastic.

"All one can need to know about space is on KSP forums." is, quite frankly, a really silly idea, so I went with a question that had no certain answer; "Does alien life exist?". I could easily have looked for discussion of alien life myself if I wanted to.

That being said, I appreciate the effort you put in, and I'm sorry for the confusion.

Edited by intelliCom
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2 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

Not much* is known about the origin of the asteroid that caused the K-Pg extinction event, for all we know it came from the Kuiper Belt and could not have been stopped.

And was made of iridium.

That's what happens when a long time ago, in the galaxy far, far away, you intercept an Imperial transport carrying platinoid reserves of the Galactic Empire, and a million years later its remains hit a random planet on relativistic speed.

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6 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

And was made of iridium.

That's what happens when a long time ago, in the galaxy far, far away, you intercept an Imperial transport carrying platinoid reserves of the Galactic Empire, and a million years later its remains hit a random planet on relativistic speed.

You could almost make a movie out of this

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11 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

And was made of iridium.

That's what happens when a long time ago, in the galaxy far, far away, you intercept an Imperial transport carrying platinoid reserves of the Galactic Empire, and a million years later its remains hit a random planet on relativistic speed.

This is what happens when you hyperspace-ram something…

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This is what happens when you shut down your Alcubierre hyperdrive, and the high-energy particles, which are accumulated in front of it, release, collide with a stone asteroid, and cause a mini-supernova, spreading around pieces of heavy metal.

Including the platinoids.

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13 hours ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Always a fun topic of speculation... 

There is a theory that starting about 200 Mya (perhaps 290 Mya) there was a dramatic uptick in bombardment. Typically, we think that bombardment happens because the KBOs or Asteroids get displaced 'somehow' - but Omuamua teaches us that it's possible for extra-solar objects to fall in.  What we don't know is whether, like comet trails that give us regular meteor showers, if the solar system passes through dust clouds that might explain bombardment periods. 

I suspect that if they'd had the technology, they'd have tried.  I've read some speculation that breaking up a large meteor could be worse - turning a bullet that might miss into a shotgun that won't... But, the K-Pg is just such an event that it would have been worth it to try. 

Interestingly, I've also read that the K-Pg event might have not been a total wipe had it made landfall rather than striking where it did.  Turning it into a bunch of smaller meteors, then, would have spread out the strike zones and maybe, just maybe the raptors could have survived? 

(the question, though, about detection is difficult - Omuamua sheds light on this!) 

Its an theory that stars passing well inside the oort  cloud could drop an swarm of comets down into the inner solar system. 
But it appear that this is much more common than we thought and we get stars closer than one light year pretty common in geological terms and as the comets tend to use a couple of million years falling in it will be an pretty constant rain. 

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3 hours ago, magnemoe said:

Its an theory that stars passing well inside the oort  cloud could drop an swarm of comets down into the inner solar system. 
But it appear that this is much more common than we thought and we get stars closer than one light year pretty common in geological terms and as the comets tend to use a couple of million years falling in it will be an pretty constant rain. 

Kind of makes you wonder if bombardment is the Great Filter, and we lucked out to develop while passing through a void so we can(hopefully) not get wiped out before we are capable of protecting ourselves.

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On 9/27/2022 at 10:15 PM, SunlitZelkova said:

Not much* is known about the origin of the asteroid that caused the K-Pg extinction event, for all we know it came from the Kuiper Belt and could not have been stopped.

Interesting assumption.  I'd assume that the K-Pg extinction asteroid might have been similar to Halley's comet, except that it would be rocky instead of an iceball.  Although for all we know, Halley's might have an irridium core (we know from the tail that it is an iceball).

So while we can predict when Halley's comet will return, can we predict its trajectory before we see it?  It is trivial to send out a DART-like probe to bop its Pe beyond the inner planets, but by the time it starts passing Neptune it is too late.  I'd assume that had the dinosaurs had at least 21st century tech for several thousand years they could have easily performed the "DART the K-Pg asteroid" out of the way if they knew it was coming, but does the Kuiper Belt redirect things?  Sure it is *sparse*, but it barely takes any force at all at that distance to significantly alter the orbit near the Sun.

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5 hours ago, wumpus said:

Interesting assumption.  I'd assume that the K-Pg extinction asteroid might have been similar to Halley's comet, except that it would be rocky instead of an iceball.  Although for all we know, Halley's might have an irridium core (we know from the tail that it is an iceball).

So while we can predict when Halley's comet will return, can we predict its trajectory before we see it?  It is trivial to send out a DART-like probe to bop its Pe beyond the inner planets, but by the time it starts passing Neptune it is too late.  I'd assume that had the dinosaurs had at least 21st century tech for several thousand years they could have easily performed the "DART the K-Pg asteroid" out of the way if they knew it was coming, but does the Kuiper Belt redirect things?  Sure it is *sparse*, but it barely takes any force at all at that distance to significantly alter the orbit near the Sun.

Thanks for the reply, it was a nice little read!

I have thought about my original question though and come to realize that those posts making fun of dinosaurs more or less make sense, so long as they are referring to the mere existence of such technology rather than its effectiveness.

Even if an interstellar comet smacks into Europe five months from now, at least we can say we had asteroid redirection technology, right?

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On 9/28/2022 at 1:05 PM, magnemoe said:

theory that stars passing well inside the oort  cloud

I've read that theory several times before.  It's a very interesting one.  I'm guessing that since it takes 230 Mya for our sun to orbit the Galactic center... With 'my' theory we ducked a bullet during the last ~60 Mya... And given the time it would be impossible to predict what star dumped the Dino killer on us

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15 hours ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

I've read that theory several times before.  It's a very interesting one.  I'm guessing that since it takes 230 Mya for our sun to orbit the Galactic center... With 'my' theory we ducked a bullet during the last ~60 Mya... And given the time it would be impossible to predict what star dumped the Dino killer on us

Keep in mind that everything in the galaxy is orbiting the galaxy (except the pressure wave arms themselves) and so there's no meaningful astronomical alignment that would happen once per orbit.

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We are floating in a giant sewers mixer called "galaxy", together with other substance.

And the only thing to avoid are the galaxy arm blades (but happily it looks that we keep floating in the co-rotation zone between them).

A little upper, a little lower doesn't play a role, we are in full crap.

Edited by kerbiloid
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Bit of a marginal but honest question, but I've stumbled upon the scene of a major thrashing Ian has given to the aircraft at North Perry, FL.

https://yuripasholok.livejournal.com/13963724.html

Wouldn't people either keep their aircraft away from the capital state of hurricanes for the hurricane season, or be close enough to bolter out of there at the first sign of trouble?

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2 hours ago, Rutabaga22 said:

Why does hubble seem to be one f the only space telescopes without a sunshield?

It's a closed Ritchey-Chretien telescope, so the barrel acts as at least a basic sunshield (it lacks significant cooling capacity).  JWST and other infrared telescopes rely on a sunshield because they have to keep the body of the telescope cool.  Hubble is a mainly visible light telescope, so it doesn't have as many problems with a warm spacecraft body.

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4 hours ago, Entropian said:

It's a closed Ritchey-Chretien telescope, so the barrel acts as at least a basic sunshield (it lacks significant cooling capacity).  JWST and other infrared telescopes rely on a sunshield because they have to keep the body of the telescope cool.  Hubble is a mainly visible light telescope, so it doesn't have as many problems with a warm spacecraft body.

Early on, there was an issue with the whole craft shaking as it transitioned from day to night (presumably  every 45 minutes).  Not sure if they ever sorted that out or just learned to live with it.  I remember a "letter to the  Washington Post" claiming that NASA should have dropped everything and made some adjustments based on offhand comments from their next-door northern neighbors (you can see the NSA from the Goddard assembly building) without any explanation (they were still "Never Say Anything").

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On 9/30/2022 at 11:42 AM, sevenperforce said:

Keep in mind that everything in the galaxy is orbiting the galaxy (except the pressure wave arms themselves) and so there's no meaningful astronomical alignment that would happen once per orbit.

So - this is true within the solar system as well.  The highly elliptical orbit of the comet tails that give us the Perseid or Orionids or Leonids are in Solar orbits as is the Earth.. And yet every year we pass through a region of in falling dust that turns on the light show. (Which is what I assumed would be repeated on the Galactic scale - but after googling:) 

I know that most stars have circular-ish orbits around the Galactic center - but that doesn't mean that all things are moving in a stately dance with one another. 

"most, of the stars near the Sun are in the Galactic disc population and have roughly circular orbits, confined close to the plane of the Galaxy. About 1% of nearby stars are part of the old halo population which have a wide dispersion of eccentricities and orbital inclinations "

It's the 1% that could be mucking stuff up! 

Edited by JoeSchmuckatelli
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8 hours ago, DDE said:

Bit of a marginal but honest question, but I've stumbled upon the scene of a major thrashing Ian has given to the aircraft at North Perry, FL.

https://yuripasholok.livejournal.com/13963724.html

Wouldn't people either keep their aircraft away from the capital state of hurricanes for the hurricane season, or be close enough to bolter out of there at the first sign of trouble?

People keep boats there too. When it is nice, it is probably great fun flying and sailing around the state. When disaster comes, they simply can’t afford to take their boat or plane and flee when they have a house, car, and other terrestrial possessions to take care of.

There are pictures out there of recreational docks too, and the boats are completely trashed, either thrown on land or sunk.

US Navy P-8s and US Coast Guard SH-60s did relocate as far away as California though.

Makes me wonder how good the civilian weather information system is compared to the military one.

While I sit thinking it is going to be sunny on Monday, is the local ANGB base battening down the hatches for a storm? It doesn’t look like anyone bothered to tie down the aircraft pictured (even though that may not have made a difference).

On the other hand, weather prediction at sea- civilian and military- is so good that ships can often sail around storms.

Which leads me to a question of my own- is maritime meteorology more difficult than meteorology focused on land?

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7 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

People keep boats there too. When it is nice, it is probably great fun flying and sailing around the state. When disaster comes, they simply can’t afford to take their boat or plane and flee when they have a house, car, and other terrestrial possessions to take care of.

There are pictures out there of recreational docks too, and the boats are completely trashed, either thrown on land or sunk.

US Navy P-8s and US Coast Guard SH-60s did relocate as far away as California though.

Makes me wonder how good the civilian weather information system is compared to the military one.

While I sit thinking it is going to be sunny on Monday, is the local ANGB base battening down the hatches for a storm? It doesn’t look like anyone bothered to tie down the aircraft pictured (even though that may not have made a difference).

On the other hand, weather prediction at sea- civilian and military- is so good that ships can often sail around storms.

Which leads me to a question of my own- is maritime meteorology more difficult than meteorology focused on land?

Smaller boats you can take up on land, smaller as in 50". Now unlike here in Norway there most boats at put on on land during the winter it might be an lack of infrastructure doing this but people take boats onto land to clean them and do maintenance. 
As for planes easiest is to fly them out, as you say they might not have time but they could pay for some to fly them out. 

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20 hours ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

So - this is true within the solar system as well.  The highly elliptical orbit of the comet tails that give us the Perseid or Orionids or Leonids are in Solar orbits as is the Earth.. And yet every year we pass through a region of in falling dust that turns on the light show. (Which is what I assumed would be repeated on the Galactic scale - but after googling:) 

I know that most stars have circular-ish orbits around the Galactic center - but that doesn't mean that all things are moving in a stately dance with one another. 

"most, of the stars near the Sun are in the Galactic disc population and have roughly circular orbits, confined close to the plane of the Galaxy. About 1% of nearby stars are part of the old halo population which have a wide dispersion of eccentricities and orbital inclinations "

It's the 1% that could be mucking stuff up! 

So, the reason we get the Perseids and the Leonids and so forth is not because we are in any kind of sync with the comets that created them, but because those comets regularly shed portions of their mass each time they go around the sun, which scatters material around the course of their orbit.

Such a thing could be possible for the galaxy. However, it would be on a much larger scale. Rather than a comet shedding little pieces of ice and rock, think about a globular cluster getting twisted and stretched into a long orbiting string of stars by tidal forces over billions of years. That’s more likely.

Research “stellar streams” if you want to learn more about what can happen to globular clusters. 

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