riocrokite

[WIP] Mining and Processing Extension [KIMP] resumed

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2mY5hWk.png

'Mining and Processing' development thread

Portable_Plant_-_Metso_Nordberg_HP300_Close_Circuit_Plant.jpg

Source: Wikipedia

Idea:

Provide for interesting and challenging setup for resources mining and processing on orbital bodies.

Goals:

- light on RAM usage

- synergy between mods (see MFS and SDS mods)

- focus on building industrial bases on planets to manufacture interplanetary vehicles

PHASE I (90% done - MFS and SDS mods)

Planned:

PHASE II (0% done)

- Machinery set and cargo containers for planetary reprocessing

- Smelting and rocket building solution (integration with EPL)

Mining operation mockup: low-profile deep extraction mining rig, FTT mobile refinery with power (via reactor) and water supply (via drills), 12-wheel concentrated ore transporter

Note: Vehicles don't need to be docked/connected in order to transfer resources; extendable conveyor has proximity transfer function.

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nhUTT3b.jpg

Control screens mockup.

Monitor 1. external camera

Monitor 2. Crusher control screen: number of crusher, rpm, temperature, efficiency, capacity, spare parts remaining %, current Ec usage.

Monitor 3. Mining drill control screen: number of drill, rpm, temperature, depth (in meters), current ore contrentration, current Ec usage, time to drill to required depth, spare parts remaining, water usage, water remaining.

License: CC 4.0 Share Alike Attribution non-commercial

Thank you - attributions:

RoverDude - FTT, MKS, Karbonite, Regolith - my mod will draw heavily from RoverDude's mods.

Disclaimer: I'm a complete modding noob and have limited time I can devote to this project so please don't expect much;) I'll also appreciate your help since I'm stumbling into many issues at the moment.

Edited by riocrokite

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Sounds intriguing, I like the idea of different ore/mineral sources requiring different specialised extraction and refining set ups

Like drill rigs for extracting liquid resources, regolith sorting for materials in the surface dirt, giant excavators and such

I want a Bagger 288 in KSP

Bagger-garzweiler.jpg

Perhaps if you are confident enough to modify/create plugins you could have mining sites have to be surveyed and prepared. Send in exploratory drills that give you estimates of the depth and concentration of the resource; then you have to remove the overburden, then you can get into mining the ore.

Really ambitious would be to have procedural terrain modification, or at least some indication of you are digging a big hole and piling up the unwanted material

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Sounds intriguing, I like the idea of different ore/mineral sources requiring different specialised extraction and refining set ups

Like drill rigs for extracting liquid resources, regolith sorting for materials in the surface dirt, giant excavators and such

I want a Bagger 288 in KSP

[...]

Perhaps if you are confident enough to modify/create plugins you could have mining sites have to be surveyed and prepared. Send in exploratory drills that give you estimates of the depth and concentration of the resource; then you have to remove the overburden, then you can get into mining the ore.

Really ambitious would be to have procedural terrain modification, or at least some indication of you are digging a big hole and piling up the unwanted material

Yeah, that looks sounds good, but I plan to start small and make framework working first. I know literally nothing about modding atm. So I start with frame. What is nice is that using same frame you could design either wheel or track crushers (selfpropelled or trailer style):

mobile-jaw-crusher.jpgc1be249b7dc27e14c84b352e4624eee1%281%29.gif

Plans are big and include also conveyor belts (required to pull / move rocky material to crusher etc.) so apart from realism it will provide nice esthetics :)

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What you need is an incentive to have these things mobile and move them about

As it is currently in Kethane, EPL and the Roverdude mods, you don't need a mobile wheeled platform. You just build a big lander that can fly to orbit and back (as pretty much all your mining is low gravity airless moons) landing them ontop of a deposit or high concentration spot

Your mod needs to break up these deposit spots into much more granular areas that become depleted or reduced in quality, so you have to micromanage your mining operations moving your mobile excavators and sorters/refiners to new locations. Wheels are impractical if the next mining spot is hundreds of km away, however they make sense if the fresh mining spots are only a few hundred meters -> few kms away

Perhaps have a tiered system. Initially you exploit small surface patches of exposed ore, move about frequently as these are depleted. Then you can either move on looking for more exposed spots, or invest your mined material in some infrastructure. Remove overburden to expose more of the vein (basically uses lots of energy and time, produces lots of waste rock you have to store in tanks) this gives you more ore to extract, overtime this can become depleated and the strip mining means you produce lots of overburden (you get bored of making tank farms to store waste rock) So you invest lots of effort in building a shaft mining complex, static but it is high efficiency and permanent, produces much less waste rock than strip mining.

Liquid resources could have a similar system where initial taps are close to surface and high pressure, easy to extract, as these short lived spots are depleted you can move onto deeper bores and pumping up the resources. Final tier would be fracking, where you are injecting a lot of energy and some resources into the ground to produce large amounts of resources from otherwise non-viable mining areas.

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What you need is an incentive to have these things mobile and move them about

As it is currently in Kethane, EPL and the Roverdude mods, you don't need a mobile wheeled platform. You just build a big lander that can fly to orbit and back (as pretty much all your mining is low gravity airless moons) landing them ontop of a deposit or high concentration spot

Your mod needs to break up these deposit spots into much more granular areas that become depleted or reduced in quality, so you have to micromanage your mining operations moving your mobile excavators and sorters/refiners to new locations. Wheels are impractical if the next mining spot is hundreds of km away, however they make sense if the fresh mining spots are only a few hundred meters -> few kms away

Perhaps have a tiered system. Initially you exploit small surface patches of exposed ore, move about frequently as these are depleted. Then you can either move on looking for more exposed spots, or invest your mined material in some infrastructure. Remove overburden to expose more of the vein (basically uses lots of energy and time, produces lots of waste rock you have to store in tanks) this gives you more ore to extract, overtime this can become depleated and the strip mining means you produce lots of overburden (you get bored of making tank farms to store waste rock) So you invest lots of effort in building a shaft mining complex, static but it is high efficiency and permanent, produces much less waste rock than strip mining.

Liquid resources could have a similar system where initial taps are close to surface and high pressure, easy to extract, as these short lived spots are depleted you can move onto deeper bores and pumping up the resources. Final tier would be fracking, where you are injecting a lot of energy and some resources into the ground to produce large amounts of resources from otherwise non-viable mining areas.

Yup, as stated in original post:

- depending on where Regolith will take us and my abilities of implenting changes - introduce additional parameters for planetary resources:

>ore depth [how hard is to mine resource and what types of drill are able to mine it],

>ore deposit size [how quickly concentration is decreasing]

(this will provide a basis for mobile processing/mining platforms since after some mining you'll have to travel around your base to get better mining yields)

I know RoverDude is working on resource system overhaul (via Regolith) so it will create random seeds and include depletion. I don't know how it will work but basically ideally for me concentration would slowly decrease (but never to 0) in place when mining operations take place. Then we only need that points with different concentrations are small enough (for example 1-2km2) so one depleted tile would be surrounded by 8 others with different characteristics.

For simplicity sake resource in any given point on planet would be described by:

1. concentration (% of pure metal in ore) - how fast resource could be harvested

2. depth (shallow or depth vein) - what drills you would have to use to drill resource

3. size (how big is deposit) - how fast concentration is decreasing

4. [optional] rock hardness - how many spare materials are used for drill operation

The system I build will take time and is supposed to be fully modular. So for know you could use just machinery with your permanent base. Yet additional resource and energy procurement for crushers / smelters is going to be challenging nevertheless. When depletion and other resource parameters are introduced by Regolith - mobile platforms elements can be used.

Spoiler: you'll also need additional resource tanks and production capability; some water for crushing, and lots of water for water splitter (slow proces) to produce oxygen needed for smelting + of course karbonite (smelting reductor)

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It would be good to get some resource mod but: what is the point of your mod ?

You wrote bout getting metal but for what purpose ?

I spent weeks mining, creating base and I got some metal then ? :huh:

All currently existing resource mods (which end to be boring) for KSP lack of a good/proper integration and a redefined gameplay where resources are REALLY needed for everything.

Tech tree need to be modified, to allow mining first and some exploration, progression needs to be set so players can start scanning/mining, then building, then going farer and farer, then in space where resources should be more valuable, due to the cost of extraction mostly, etc

But I don't believe KSP is really designed for resources right now, it needs too much changes current design may not allow.

If you know it, or not, take a look at Terraria, another sanbox game in which resources are VERY needed and are the core of the game (and overall design is a lot lot more better than KSP IMHO). BUT, don't try the game or you may end addicted ! :)

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@Justin Kerbice - Looks like he's setting this up for ELP, which makes sense and is very valid. And it's a nice (alternate) approach from how I'm tackling it from the MKS side.

RE 'redefined gameplay' what happened to the project you were doing to do precisely that? Best thing about being able to mod stuff is that you can make the game whatever you'd like :)

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It would be good to get some resource mod but: what is the point of your mod ?

You wrote bout getting metal but for what purpose ?

I spent weeks mining, creating base and I got some metal then ? :huh:

All currently existing resource mods (which end to be boring) for KSP lack of a good/proper integration and a redefined gameplay where resources are REALLY needed for everything.

Tech tree need to be modified, to allow mining first and some exploration, progression needs to be set so players can start scanning/mining, then building, then going farer and farer, then in space where resources should be more valuable, due to the cost of extraction mostly, etc

But I don't believe KSP is really designed for resources right now, it needs too much changes current design may not allow.

If you know it, or not, take a look at Terraria, another sanbox game in which resources are VERY needed and are the core of the game (and overall design is a lot lot more better than KSP IMHO). BUT, don't try the game or you may end addicted ! :)

What RoverDude said. Extraplanetary Launchpads. Also it is important to see not what KSP is today but what it might become (and work toward that goal ;)). Answering your question if we have resource system in place it is easy to make KSP even more challenging and interesting. For example install EPL, install ISP difficulty scaler and modify atmospheric ISP to be more inline with reality. If you play career with funds you now have very big incentive to build rockets on moons / planets without atmosphere since it's much cheaper to launch heavy expedition ship not from Kerbin. Add to that rare metals and exotic minerals recovery from ore concentration process and there you go - you build self-sustained exploration-mining programme (which is about right since missions after a while are too repetitive). Now add to that emerging mod that allows travels to other solar systems :D:D:D

Bonus:

1WJjIuw.png

(whole presentation)

http://slideplayer.us/slide/1567640/

You can see an example of long-term project that could be interesting and take months of gameplay.

Edited by riocrokite

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First crusher model:

Example config with new parts (from right to left): Frame end, Frame with undercarriage and crusher, narrow frame with space for rotating drills (IR), frame without undercarriage.

D0O44ua.png

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My dad used to design and repair these machines...untill the boss fired him and ran off with the plans.

Here's a pic from a model of one of the machines:

keestrack01.jpg

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My dad used to design and repair these machines...untill the boss fired him and ran off with the plans.

Here's a pic from a model of one of the machines:

[...]

Cool:) I'm going to make conveyor models as well but I have no idea how to animate them atm. By the way I'm going to make 3 or 4 different crusher models. Specifically I'm thinking of cone crusher vertical impact (VSI) and horizontal impact (HSI) crusher. I'm going to differentiate their cost, througoutput, efficiency (reduction ratio) and spare parts need.

Do you dad have any experiences with different crusher types? Maybe he could tell which one breaks down more frequently or is better for crushing ore? All suggestions and information about crusher types in respect to space program are welcome :)

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Quick update, most of the time takes me making frames that are compatible with other mods / stock elements.

My current plan: make all elements as simple models, then processes (alpha), then complex models and at the end textures (beta).

Here's an early frame model that allows to stack tanks/machinery vertically.

SUAaLVm.jpg

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Hmm... Kinda nice-ish, generally if I'm launching from Kerbin my requirements are:

1. has to fit on a 10 m stack or smaller.

2. Has to weigh 500 tons or less.

3. Has to be able to withstand 3gs for launch. (23m/sec)

4. Must have a feasible landing strategy for tylo/lathe. (by extension practically anything else).

5. must not cause too much grief during deployment/activation.

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Hmm... Kinda nice-ish, generally if I'm launching from Kerbin my requirements are:

1. has to fit on a 10 m stack or smaller.

2. Has to weigh 500 tons or less.

3. Has to be able to withstand 3gs for launch. (23m/sec)

4. Must have a feasible landing strategy for tylo/lathe. (by extension practically anything else).

5. must not cause too much grief during deployment/activation.

Vertical frames generally aren't meant for launch from kerbin, it's for endgame machinery needed for large-scale ore extraction. If you launch from Kerbin you'll have choice either to launch horizontal frame and machinery/tanks separately and attach them on site (via skycrane or what have you). Alternatively you can choose to go stationary first and launch only machinery alone.

For example - machinery and tank attached via docking ports that are 'hidden' in the frame body (so it looks nice):

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Edited by riocrokite

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Crushers on the Mun beauty shots:

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From front to rear:

Cone crusher (highest capacity and energy usage, lowest spare parts usage per t of processed ore, lowest efficiency - reduction ratio)

- HSI crusher (medium efficiency, lowest capacity, lightest, lowest energy usage, medium spare parts usage)

- VSI crusher (highest efficiency, medium capacity, highest spare parts usage per t of processed ore, lowest spare parts usage per recovered crushed ore)

- HSI is the best if you don't mind depletion rate and bulkiness, VSI is best if you mind depletion rate. HSI in the middle, also lightest.

- 1000kW portable generator to power mobile platform (uses karbonite as fuel, proprties: in balance with other USI energy generators)

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Nice-to-have dreams series presents you 2 mockup control screens (one for drill and one for crusher):

ALBTL2M.jpg

Crusher control screen: number of crusher, rpm, temperature, efficiency, capacity, spare parts remaining %, current Ec usage.

Mining drill control screen: number of drill, rpm, temperature, depth (in meters), current ore contrentration, current Ec usage, time to drill to required depth, spare parts remaining, water usage, water remaining.

Edited by riocrokite

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Awesome progress.

Cheers, although there are just models and mockups and no functionality yet. So there are lot of things still to be done.

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just a quick note: I'm off travelling till end of year; so the work on project will resume on 1st of Jan. On the bright side I've learned how to make animations so that's one step closer to the finished product.

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back in town:)

I'm going to finish off frame set first and then start on mining/processing modules-functionality.

Bonus: mun extreme test using makeshift hybrid hauler (flying on lv-n when empty cargo and moving @ steady 13m/s with whopping 1000t of metal):

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notice low center of mass with 2 (optionally 3) lv-n in the center that uses gap in frame for exhaust. the body with a small configuration tweak can fit in a fairing nicely. 3 mounting points on each frame allows for balanced mass distribution and flexible configuration.

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This is awesome!

I'm honestly not sure why or how i have not seen this thread till now :) Your models are looking awesome.

I like the planned ore processing flow! I'm noticing alot of the requirements and by-products, (rock, Wastewater) are part of the CRP, this is good! Any plans on including some kind of waste-water storage on the parts? Since Water isnt easy to come by with interplanetary mining, i can foresee wanting to recycle all of it we could.

Also im not sure if you've seen the latest MKS release, but Roverdude added in a production chain for rocket parts with his latest release. Might be worth a peek.

Anyway Keep up the awesome work!

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This is awesome!

I'm honestly not sure why or how i have not seen this thread till now :) Your models are looking awesome.

I like the planned ore processing flow! I'm noticing alot of the requirements and by-products, (rock, Wastewater) are part of the CRP, this is good! Any plans on including some kind of waste-water storage on the parts? Since Water isnt easy to come by with interplanetary mining, i can foresee wanting to recycle all of it we could.

Also im not sure if you've seen the latest MKS release, but Roverdude added in a production chain for rocket parts with his latest release. Might be worth a peek.

Anyway Keep up the awesome work!

thanks:)

I've exchanged thoughts with RoverDude in the beginning of planning phase and I'm still thinking how to introduce additional complexity to MKS / EPL without too much of it at the end (so using CRP materials when needed etc).

I also noticed that water is scarce so water (or chemicals) usage will have to be super small (closed cycle for cooling), dunno about refinery usages yet. OR I can make use of karbonite:) since we have karbonite->LFO mix converter already and LFO mix has o2 and h2(?) in it we just need LFO->water converter or just straight karbonite->water.

Current plans are to introduce 3 independent modules:

1st module = frame set (with changeable tanks when appropriate), no functionality (except from integrated landing legs and maybe ramp)

2nd module = crushers/compactors and mining drills for ore and minerals (i.e. huge extendable 20t+ drill like this below that will be able to excavate all of materials at once + better efficiency at the expense of mass, energy and conveyorbelt usage). this will add complexity to res harvesting but I plan to add reward for this as well.

mining-drill-rig.jpg

3rd module = custom refinery and maybe workshop so that so that you have simpler option of converting resources into rocketparts, if current MKS/OKS EPL path is too complicated and you want to focus more on mining and less on processing.

Edited by riocrokite

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RE: 2nd phase - I LOVE the idea of a super large drill. All the smaller radial drills are all fine and well, but the idea of being able to ship up (or build on site via EPL) a huge drill with higher efficiency and larger output is awesome. Not so mention it saves on part count (vs. having 10 drills :P)

I also noticed that water is scarce so water (or chemicals) usage will have to be super small (closed cycle for cooling), dunno about refinery usages yet. OR I can make use of karbonite:) since we have karbonite->LFO mix converter already and LFO mix has o2 and h2(?) in it we just need LFO->water converter or just straight karbonite->water.

A karbonite -->water conversion seems a little too "handwavey magic" type of thing :P

As long as the refinery process is used in conjunction with an MKS base for example, purifying the waste water should keep losses to a minimum

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