nightingale

[1.8.x+] Contract Configurator [v1.28.0] [2019-10-17]

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3 hours ago, AccidentalDisassembly said:

For me, removing GAP seemed to fix the particular exception I was having, but I was changing a lot of things and can't be ABSOLUTELY sure that that was what fixed it (it also could have been removing a UKS part that was throwing exceptions having to do with its model, or something...).  Trying that DLL anyway though.

Same here.  I thought I was going to be able to back trace it something either USI related or one the mods that updated today but no joy.  As near as I can tell, I think it was RoverDude's Orion drive that was doing it - that's the only one I don't have installed anymore but again, I can't be 100% certain either.

EDIT: It's weird.  I have GAP installed and with or without it, was getting the error to pop.  Now that I've finally got it to stop I have GAP back on again but the error still isn't popping.

Edited by rasta013

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@AccidentalDisassembly & @rasta013 - yeah, that's no surprise, since GAP and other contract packs use the bits of Contract Configurator that were causing the error to show up (but the actual cause was whatever part mod was messing things up on load).  Anyway, glad it's all sorted.

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Ah... never mind.  I did not realize that CKAN very quietly ignores mods that it deems incompatible when loading a .ckan mod list.  It therefore did not install the RemoteTech contract pack since it's not listed on CKAN for 1.1.2 right now.  I guess, then, that when it looked for the contract and couldn't find the information, it decided to throw the exception.  Manually installing the RT contract pack fixed this issue.

 

 

I get the following error text on entering the tracking station with instructions to post this message here.

Exception occured while saving contract 'unknown':
System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at ContractConfigurator.ContractCheckRequirement.OnSave (.ConfigNode configNode) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at ContractConfigurator.ContractRequirement.Save (.ConfigNode configNode) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at ContractConfigurator.ConfiguredContract.OnSave (.ConfigNode node) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

I am in the process of upgrading to 1.1.2 with a save from 1.1.0 and a heavy mod-list.

I think I know which contract triggered it.  Simultaneous with the error message, I get a notification that I've failed my RemoteTech mission to put up a 4-satellite communication network.  However, I had previously completed this mission so I don't know what it's looking for (apparently, neither does contract config).  I can send my save file and mod list if you think it will help. 

Edited by DivisionByZero
solved! :)

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I just couldn't give this up because I hate not knowing the answer to a certainty... :sticktongue:

Turns out that @AccidentalDisassembly was dead on with what caused both our problems.  I thought I had re-installed GAP when I looked in the contract packs folder and saw the directory sitting there.  Should've looked inside it because it was empty.  Removing that allowed me to keep the USI suite that I had been concentrating on thinking it was part related somehow.  Just goes to show that when you've been trying to find the needle in a haystack that it's a wise idea to keep the hay you've searched separated from the rest. :blush:

Nevertheless...solved.  Thanks @nightingale for this mod, your work on it and all the help you always provide.  Thanks also to @AccidentalDisassembly for locating the problem and making me go back and look at it again.  I can now let my OCD relax...

UPDATE: @AccidentalDisassembly, if you're trying to track down the model in UKS that is having the model issues go and disable LightGlobe.cfg in the UmbraSpaceIndustries/Kolonization/Parts directory.  The solar panel module on that part keeps hacking a hairball.  I'm not sure if it's keeping the part from working (mostly anyway) but that nagging drag cube message that pops up so frequently just kept killing me...

Edited by rasta013
Another tip...

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Hey, when loading in my existing career I get two errors from Contractconfigurator, related to the Remotetech contractpack.

First one:

Spoiler

Exception occured while loading contract parameter 'ReachSpecificOrbit1' in contract 'RemoteTech.RT_EverythingSat':
System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at ContractConfigurator.Parameters.VesselParameterDelegator.GetParamFromPath (System.String path) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ContractConfigurator.Parameters.VesselParameterDelegator.OnParameterLoad (.ConfigNode node) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ContractConfigurator.Parameters.ContractConfiguratorParameter.OnLoad (.ConfigNode node) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  

The second one appears when I change scenes:

Spoiler

Exception occured while saving contract parameter 'ReachSpecificOrbit1' in contract 'RemoteTech.RT_EverythingSat':
System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at ContractConfigurator.Parameters.VesselParameterDelegator+<GetPathFromParam>d__15.MoveNext () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at System.Collections.Generic.List`1[System.Int32].AddEnumerable (IEnumerable`1 enumerable) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at System.Collections.Generic.List`1[System.Int32]..ctor (IEnumerable`1 collection) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at System.Linq.Enumerable+<CreateReverseIterator>c__IteratorF`1[System.Int32].MoveNext () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at System.Linq.Enumerable.Aggregate[Int32,String] (IEnumerable`1 source, System.String seed, System.Func`3 func) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ContractConfigurator.Parameters.VesselParameterDelegator.OnParameterSave (.ConfigNode node) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ContractConfigurator.Parameters.ContractConfiguratorParameter.OnSave (.ConfigNode node) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

If that matters: I'm using the dev 522 version of remotetech. And my ksp.log:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/f8d1oz2kdu1gsif/KSP.log?dl=0

 

Let me know if you need something else.

QuickEdit: That was btw with the dev .dll you posted on the last page to test for some issues. But the same issue appeared with the latest contractConfigurator release

Edited by Galile0

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On 5/1/2016 at 6:34 PM, nightingale said:

To be honest I think it's just looking at a field/method provided by stock, do can't really say for sure without doing some digging (which I'll do when I can tonight or tomorrow).

any luck digging?

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3 hours ago, inigma said:

any luck digging?

Nothing beyond my original response:

On 01/05/2016 at 10:45 PM, nightingale said:

Checked, and all Contract Configurator does here is tally up the part.CrewCapacity values.  For a stock command seat that will be zero (and as far as I can tell always has been).  If TakeCommand isn't setting that value when it adds itself then I'd take the issue over there.

Since TakeCommand adds a command module to the chairs, I would assume that's enough to increment that value.

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This might sound silly, but having started a new career with Contract Configurator, Anomaly Surveyor, Field Research and Tourism Plus... I haven't had a single stock contract :S

Been to Mun twice, probes at Minmus, one on the way to Duna - never had a contract to put a satellite up, explore a body, rescue a kerbal, or test a part. With the exception of Tito Kerman wanting to be the first tourist, everything's coming from CC.

Weird luck, or do I need to kick a config file somewhere to get it to generate regular contracts as well? ^^;  I've seen a few entries in the log saying things like "explorebody is over the active limit, declining" - not sure if those are related?

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Annoying undisableable message is a strange way to collect feedback from my pov, but since you asked...

Exception occured while saving contract parameter 'ReachSpecificOrbit' in contract 'CleverSat.CleverSatRandomShift':
System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at ContractConfigurator.Parameters.VesselParameterDelegator+<GetPathFromParam>d__15.MoveNext () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at System.Collections.Generic.List`1[System.Int32].AddEnumerable (IEnumerable`1 enumerable) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at System.Collections.Generic.List`1[System.Int32]..ctor (IEnumerable`1 collection) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at System.Linq.Enumerable+<CreateReverseIterator>c__IteratorF`1[System.Int32].MoveNext () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at System.Linq.Enumerable.Aggregate[Int32,String] (IEnumerable`1 source, System.String seed, System.Func`3 func) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ContractConfigurator.Parameters.VesselParameterDelegator.OnParameterSave (.ConfigNode node) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ContractConfigurator.Parameters.ContractConfiguratorParameter.OnSave (.ConfigNode node) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

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7 hours ago, eddiew said:

This might sound silly, but having started a new career with Contract Configurator, Anomaly Surveyor, Field Research and Tourism Plus... I haven't had a single stock contract :S

Been to Mun twice, probes at Minmus, one on the way to Duna - never had a contract to put a satellite up, explore a body, rescue a kerbal, or test a part. With the exception of Tito Kerman wanting to be the first tourist, everything's coming from CC.

Weird luck, or do I need to kick a config file somewhere to get it to generate regular contracts as well? ^^;  I've seen a few entries in the log saying things like "explorebody is over the active limit, declining" - not sure if those are related?

This seems a bit off, with only those contract packs I'd still expect you to see plenty of stock contracts.  Can you provide a log?  Oh, and BTW - the Tito Kerman one is Contract Configurator too. :)

1 hour ago, Dr. Jet said:

Annoying undisableable message is a strange way to collect feedback from my pov, but since you asked...

Exception occured while saving contract parameter 'ReachSpecificOrbit' in contract 'CleverSat.CleverSatRandomShift':
System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at ContractConfigurator.Parameters.VesselParameterDelegator+<GetPathFromParam>d__15.MoveNext () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at System.Collections.Generic.List`1[System.Int32].AddEnumerable (IEnumerable`1 enumerable) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at System.Collections.Generic.List`1[System.Int32]..ctor (IEnumerable`1 collection) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at System.Linq.Enumerable+<CreateReverseIterator>c__IteratorF`1[System.Int32].MoveNext () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at System.Linq.Enumerable.Aggregate[Int32,String] (IEnumerable`1 source, System.String seed, System.Func`3 func) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ContractConfigurator.Parameters.VesselParameterDelegator.OnParameterSave (.ConfigNode node) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ContractConfigurator.Parameters.ContractConfiguratorParameter.OnSave (.ConfigNode node) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

Already fixed for next release, let me get that out ASAP.

Done.  New version here.

Contract Configurator 1.11.4

  • Clean up some "Input is null" errors/warnings.
  • Deprecated VesselParameterDelegator.
  • Remove support for ancient versions of Module Manager.

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12 hours ago, nightingale said:

This seems a bit off, with only those contract packs I'd still expect you to see plenty of stock contracts.  Can you provide a log?  Oh, and BTW - the Tito Kerman one is Contract Configurator too. :)

Sure, log uploaded here :)  Not sure what exactly to do other than load the game and futz around a bit... I didn't realise about Tito, I guess that shows how long I've been running with CC that I can't tell the difference xD

Looking at my contract history, I have a handful of world firsts, and a single "gather science from Kerbin" which suggests it did once give me some stock contracts. There is a fair possibility the bug is not in CC and that I've borked it myself by switching tech tree and trying to manually fiddle the researched nodes... wondering if this has confused the game into thinking I don't own the starter tech :S 

Edited by eddiew

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I'd like to try my hand at creating à contract pack, but dunno where to start. I have no expérience doing this, and intend to use this to get some. 

I was thinking of starting by using an already made contract structure and change to value in it to begin. Does that sound like à good Idea?

Just for my info, à working pack would have what inside as a minimum?

À .cfg for the group, another for the first contract and that's it? Or do i need something else for CC to do something with those at all?

EDIT: As for now, my contract does not seems to appear in the game. I'm wondering if i'm not missing something. I see a VERSION file in all the other contract pack, maybe it's what i'm missing in mine?

Edited by Madscientist16180

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8 hours ago, eddiew said:

Sure, log uploaded here :)  Not sure what exactly to do other than load the game and futz around a bit... I didn't realise about Tito, I guess that shows how long I've been running with CC that I can't tell the difference xD

Looking at my contract history, I have a handful of world firsts, and a single "gather science from Kerbin" which suggests it did once give me some stock contracts. There is a fair possibility the bug is not in CC and that I've borked it myself by switching tech tree and trying to manually fiddle the researched nodes... wondering if this has confused the game into thinking I don't own the starter tech :S 

Really nothing jump out (a few errors here and there from mods not updated for 1.1.2, but nothing that should affect contracts).  In the contract debug menu, you should be able to force-create contracts of the different types using the "E", "M", "H" buttons beside the contract type names.

Also, can I see a screenshot of your mission control?

54 minutes ago, Madscientist16180 said:

I'd like to try my hand at creating à contract pack, but dunno where to start. I have no expérience doing this, and intend to use this to get some. 

I was thinking of starting by using an already made contract structure and change to value in it to begin. Does that sound like à good Idea?

Just for my info, à working pack would have what inside as a minimum?

À .cfg for the group, another for the first contract and that's it? Or do i need something else for CC to do something with those at all?

EDIT: As for now, my contract does not seems to appear in the game. I'm wondering if i'm not missing something. I see a VERSION file in all the other contract pack, maybe it's what i'm missing in mine?

You've got the basics down, make sure you read through the wiki if you haven't already.

The version file is good to have for KSP-AVC, but won't affect anything in game.  First thing to do is check the alt-f10 debug menu to see if there were any errors loading your contract config.  If not, then it could be that a REQUIREMENT node is unmet and preventing your contract from showing up.  If that's not it, then it could just be that it hasn't been generated yet - test it out by clearing all contracts from the debug menu and see if doing that a couple times makes your contract show up.  Finally, if you have your contract set to exceptional (3-stars), make sure you have enough reputation to have a free slot open for the contract (just spam the add reputation button in the debug menu).

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I do not see any error in the F10 debug, i think it's not working as i do not see the name i gave the group in the CC interface where we can choose what contract are offered or not.

I'm reading the wiki, and think i'm starting to get it. I'll try and do another contract, really basic with few if any requirement, will be easier to test.

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2 minutes ago, Madscientist16180 said:

I do not see any error in the F10 debug, i think it's not working as i do not see the name i gave the group in the CC interface where we can choose what contract are offered or not.

I'm reading the wiki, and think i'm starting to get it. I'll try and do another contract, really basic with few if any requirement, will be easier to test.

If it's really not liking something and not showing up you can also check KSP.log - it might be that it was unable to load the group at all.

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48 minutes ago, nightingale said:

Really nothing jump out (a few errors here and there from mods not updated for 1.1.2, but nothing that should affect contracts).  In the contract debug menu, you should be able to force-create contracts of the different types using the "E", "M", "H" buttons beside the contract type names.

Also, can I see a screenshot of your mission control?

Mission control started like this:

nqOP4v0.png

Switched to space centre, added three contracts by hand, switched back to mission control - and they were there for about a second before vanishing. Log now has these at the end:

(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/UnityEngineDebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 64)
Contract of type 'PlantFlag' was not be generated.
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/UnityEngineDebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 64)
[ContractsSystem]: Contract Investigate rock arches on the Mun. is no longer being offered by Anomaly Surveyor Group
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/UnityEngineDebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 64)
[ContractsSystem]: Contract Rescue Tomfred Kerman from orbit of the Mun. is no longer being offered by Periapsis Rocket Supplies Co
 (Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/UnityEngineDebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 64)

 

...which doesn't seem quite right to me. Complete log here. Interestingly, one of the stock contracts has stayed, at the expense of the anomaly contract:

nbmEnWQ.png

Feels like something is very determined to offer only 9 contracts at a time, and that CC is taking priority in most cases... Hitting decline either swaps the contract for one of the same type, or just reduces the number in the list.

Edited by eddiew
can't count

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Hi, I'm experiencing some issues that may be due to Contract Configurator. A log can be found here :

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qjzjqynksm5uib/KSP.log?dl=0

The error is that when I'm changing screens, the scene freezes with no option for me to do anything. The values displayed (such as time) are also weird.

Could you check if the errors could be because of the mod ? I'll try uninstalling it and see if the problem stops but I'd like very much to keep playing with custom contracts thanks to your incredible mod :)

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@eddiew - Can you send me your save file?  There's a couple things I'd like to peek at.

The "no longer being offered" is a bit odd, since the only thing that should change the availability of that contract once it's been offered is the expiry (and I assume you weren't time-warping).  the "not be generated" is probably normal - it means that KSP decided there weren't any valid bodies to offer you a PlantFlag contract for at the moment.

9 contracts seems about right for your reputation, given that there probably isn't any 3 star contracts coming up.

Where are you progression-wise?  You seem far enough in the tech tree that you're getting the climate and geological Field Research contracts.  

Have you made any changes to the stock contract settings in Contracts.cfg?  Like changing the contract weighting parameters?  As a sanity check, might be good to do a validation if you're a steam user (I forget the actual name, the one that does a check of all the stock files).

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3 minutes ago, nightingale said:

@eddiew - Can you send me your save file?  There's a couple things I'd like to peek at.

No probs, save uploaded here. I do have a ton of mods, but it'll probably just not load some of the vessels rather than refuse to work outright. Community Tech Tree is probably the big breaker.

I think I'm about jet engine stage, with some basic 2.5m tech. Couple of Mun landings, a few probes, one on its way to Duna. I tend to rush for science experiments to max my returns. Got the field research stuff quite early, soon as I had a Wheesley I think.

I found some contract weightings in the save file, which I did tweak, but only in response to never getting any from stock ^^;  Validation found 2 files - but of course didn't tell me what they are. I think it always finds 2 files, they're probably general game options :/

It is entirely possible I've just had weird luck... if I generate a few stock contracts, odds on one of them will stick. Might fire up a new career game, just to see what happens.

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4 minutes ago, BluK said:

Hi, I'm experiencing some issues that may be due to Contract Configurator. A log can be found here :

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qjzjqynksm5uib/KSP.log?dl=0

The error is that when I'm changing screens, the scene freezes with no option for me to do anything. The values displayed (such as time) are also weird.

Could you check if the errors could be because of the mod ? I'll try uninstalling it and see if the problem stops but I'd like very much to keep playing with custom contracts thanks to your incredible mod :)

Lots of stuff of concern in the log:

[EXC 17:15:38.173] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
	ExceptionDetector.ExceptionDetector.Awake ()
	UnityEngine.GameObject:AddComponent(Type)
	AddonLoader:StartAddon(LoadedAssembly, Type, KSPAddon, Startup)
	AddonLoader:StartAddons(Startup)
	:MoveNext()
	UnityEngine.MonoBehaviour:StartCoroutine(IEnumerator)
	:MoveNext()
	UnityEngine.MonoBehaviour:StartCoroutine(IEnumerator)
	GameDatabase:StartLoad()
	:MoveNext()
	UnityEngine.MonoBehaviour:StartCoroutine(IEnumerator)
	LoadingScreen:Start()

That's ExceptionDetector falling over, I don't believe that would be causing your issues, but could be it needs to be updated or isn't yet working in 1.1.2.

[EXC 17:17:05.774] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
	KERBALISM.Lib.CrewCapacity (.Vessel v)
	KERBALISM.Kerbalism.updateConnectedSpaces ()
	KERBALISM.Kerbalism.FixedUpdate ()

That one is happening a whole ton from Kerbalism in flight and is a very likely cause to your issue.

[EXC 17:20:22.202] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
	ProtoVessel..ctor (.Vessel VesselRef)
	ContractConfigurator.ContractVesselTracker+<>c__DisplayClass17_1.<OnVesselDestroy>b__0 (.Vessel v)
	System.Collections.Generic.List`1[Vessel].GetIndex (Int32 startIndex, Int32 count, System.Predicate`1 match)
	System.Collections.Generic.List`1[Vessel].Find (System.Predicate`1 match)
	ContractConfigurator.ContractVesselTracker.OnVesselDestroy (.Vessel vessel)
	EventData`1[Vessel].Fire (.Vessel data)
	Vessel.OnDestroy ()
	UnityEngine.Object:DestroyImmediate(Object)
	VesselRetrieval:recoverVessel(Vessel)
	VesselRetrieval:recoverVessels()
	:MoveNext()

That one is definitely due to Contract Configurator (although it only happens after the Kerbalism error.  Still, I've put in a fix for the next release, which you can test out here.

After that the log devolves into more and more and more errors from Kerbalism, DPAI, KIS, Science Checklist, something of Regex's.  More than likely there's a few mods that need to be updated here.

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5 minutes ago, eddiew said:

No probs, save uploaded here. I do have a ton of mods, but it'll probably just not load some of the vessels rather than refuse to work outright. Community Tech Tree is probably the big breaker.

I think I'm about jet engine stage, with some basic 2.5m tech. Couple of Mun landings, a few probes, one on its way to Duna. I tend to rush for science experiments to max my returns. Got the field research stuff quite early, soon as I had a Wheesley I think.

I found some contract weightings in the save file, which I did tweak, but only in response to never getting any from stock ^^;  Validation found 2 files - but of course didn't tell me what they are. I think it always finds 2 files, they're probably general game options :/

It is entirely possible I've just had weird luck... if I generate a few stock contracts, odds on one of them will stick. Might fire up a new career game, just to see what happens.

Looking at the weights, I'd say the stock system is doing its thing correctly:

		WEIGHTS
		{
			DMAsteroidSurveyContract = 30
			DMSurveyContract = 10
			DMMagneticSurveyContract = 10
			DMReconContract = 10
			DMAnomalyContract = 30
			ConfiguredContract = 90
			WorldFirstContract = 30
			SurveyContract = 10
			StationContract = 10
			SatelliteContract = 10
			ISRUContract = 30
			BaseContract = 10
			ARMContract = 30
			RecoverAsset = 10
			PlantFlag = 10
			PartTest = 10
			GrandTour = 30
			ExploreBody = 30
		}

Most of the common contracts (part tests, surveys, stations, satellites) have all been reduced to the minimum weight.  The Contract Configurator one is a bit special, and sets itself based on the number of contract packs that are installed (I'm not sure if the number in the save is accurate or not, but it "feels" right based on what you have).  So I'd say you've declined too much and now need to accept more to get those weights back up.  Or you can hack the save file and increase those values back up to 30.

Someone should write a mod to add a GUI where the player can change those values via sliders...  Considering I've already got functionality to disable them outright, putting a slider beside it to control the weights actually seems to fit... hmm.... 

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Righto, I'll give 'er a hack, and see what's going on after a few in-game weeks :) 

(I wouldn't be averse to not having the weightings... I'd be happy to see 1 of every type, decline it, get another of that type.)

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3 hours ago, nightingale said:

If it's really not liking something and not showing up you can also check KSP.log - it might be that it was unable to load the group at all.

Well, i was basically not looking at the right place. Found the good one, saw the error log, and now i have a first working contract. I'M sure there is something wrong, as the debug tells me there is no contract in my group, but if i go to the mission control building, it's there, i just tried it and succeeded.

So, now i got to do one that is more complex.

The first one was simply to get water sample from anywhere. Requirement, R&D lv 2. I'm quite happy with myself for this small victory. Just gotta iron-out the wrinkle.

 

P.S: Just saw you are Canadian, and saw your family name on the wiki, French Canadian by any chance? I am :)

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38 minutes ago, Madscientist16180 said:

Well, i was basically not looking at the right place. Found the good one, saw the error log, and now i have a first working contract. I'M sure there is something wrong, as the debug tells me there is no contract in my group, but if i go to the mission control building, it's there, i just tried it and succeeded.

So, now i got to do one that is more complex.

The first one was simply to get water sample from anywhere. Requirement, R&D lv 2. I'm quite happy with myself for this small victory. Just gotta iron-out the wrinkle.

Contract types don't need a group (although it's highly recommended for various reasons).  So it could be you didn't put the group on your CONTRACT_TYPE.

39 minutes ago, Madscientist16180 said:

P.S: Just saw you are Canadian, and saw your family name on the wiki, French Canadian by any chance? I am :)

Yup, I was born in Quebec City, although I haven't spoken French in close to 20 years now.

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