Nertea

[1.6.x] Mark IV Spaceplane System (January 21, 2019)

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The 'complete redo' looks absolutely glorious.

HOWEVER, that said, I have one request: CKAN. Other than that, looks excellent.

EDIT: I'm a complete knob. Never mind about CKAN, found it. :EDIT

Edited by MedicRules41

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Actually this mod also makes me more happy because I can build Star Wars Pod Racers with the 2,5 Engines, Nacelles, and Intakes :wink:

Like this :

r7HVYdm.png

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Bug Report: Heavy RCS Blister floats far outwards from the surface of attachment in both angle snap and free placement modes.

xPX3YXf.jpg

Bug Report: Noticeable seam on Mk4 Dual Adaptor (perhaps a slight scale issue)

6xNZdL1.jpg

Bug Report: Texture mis-alignment and slight z-fighting on service bay front and back (nodes?)

t24AZLh.jpg

Edited by technerd89
Additional issues found

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Does anyone have a basic craft file using these mk4 parts that they'd be willing to share? I'm super curious to play with them, but my spaceplane design team appear to have missed the aerodynamics classes taught by the SPH, and nothing I can put together seems to get into orbit.

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This is absolutely amazing work!

One of the best aspects is the sheer size of the parts and cargo bays. They are ENORMOUS! I was BARELY able to fit an LLL body rover into the previous version, but the wheels couldn't stick out - NOTHING could stick out. It was a TIGHT fit!

Now... whoa... Anybody hear an ECHO in here... here... here... ? :0.0:

9CYKiht.png

AND you have bays that open DOWNWARD too!

You can drive a rover in on the runway - secure it via dock clamp and KAS struts to the ceiling, fly it to where it's supposed to be, and literally DROP IT OUT THE BOTTOM TO DEPLOY IT!!! (Hopefully with parachutes and braking rockets/jets! :D )

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Does anyone have a basic craft file using these mk4 parts that they'd be willing to share? I'm super curious to play with them, but my spaceplane design team appear to have missed the aerodynamics classes taught by the SPH, and nothing I can put together seems to get into orbit.

I made something that worked, but I didn't notice I hadn't any electrical power generation. Also, it's easy to have too much oxidiser, and balance shifts as fuel is burnt can be a killer.

It looks like you need the centre of mass further forward of the centre of lift, and a way of reducing pitch control force after take-off. Multi-section Elevons with an action group to toggle most of the pitch and roll force at high air-speed? You may need a lot of pitch authority to control take-off and landing. This is a real-world problem, especially in pre fly-by-wire days when changing the stick-to-control relationship with speed needed ingenious mechanical systems and a lot of test flying.

Concorde used to pump fuel forwards to correct for the supersonic trim change.

I used the B9 Procedural Wings, which can store some fuel.

Splitting the main fuel tank to put the oxidiser further forward might help

Maybe a longer nose-gear, to raise the nose during the take-off run, would help.

I did wonder if the cargo bays were missing. Everything else is "Mk4 Something" but they are "CRG Mk4 Something" and index differently.

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Hey Logan, do you have a 1.0.4 working version of your Eagle 1999????

Always remember - it's not MY Eagle 1999, it's Devo's.

I don't want to derail the thread with this, so the rest of you can ignore this, Dr Ted, look behind the spoiler for the rest of my post. :)

[spoiler=]That said - I haven't yet had a chance to test it. I've been learning how to use CKAN and I've been adding (most) of the mods I really like to 1.04 and testing which config gives me the most yet remains stable. I've had good luck with almost everything else installed except for Astronomers pack, which remains steadfastly broken. ( *Sadface* I want my 1.04+ to be as pretty as .25 was... ;.; )

Also been watching the KSP Kollaborative Warfare series on Youtube and, inspired by that, been - in-between tweaking the modsets - testing various military aircraft designs. (In fact I'm about to post one in the Craft Share thread that has worked out to be pretty awesome.)

As for the Eagle, I wanted to get the install of 1.04 right before I loaded it in to test. I'm almost to that point. I know I'll have to redo some of the mission pods (KAS no longer works the same, and resource gathering is a thing in the stock game, so the Kethane/Karbonite Prospector pods will be undergoing MAJOR changes). But the LLL Parts still work pretty much as they always have, and Quantum Struts is still around, so the basic structure of the pods will likely stay the same.

Of course this all assumes the bloody thing still even works properly anymore. I know the new atmospheric model may make getting it into orbit (and back) a significant hurdle at the very least. Plus even assuming I can tweak the .cfgs to work in 1.04, there's the fact that it will only work in sandbox mode - it's never been integrated into the tech tree.

What I'd REALLY like to do is talk Devo into allowing another modder to take over the Eagle since he's pretty much abandoned all his stuff. Assuming it still works on a basic level, I'd love to see the Eagle get a once over by someone truly able to give it the love it deserves if Devo won't/can't do it.

When I get around to figuring it out, I'll post something where people will see it, either in the mod forums in general or in the old Wayland thread.

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Is that integrated into Community Tech Tree? ;) I can not see those parts.

Great job - keep going on them.

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Is that integrated into Community Tech Tree? ;) I can not see those parts.

Great job - keep going on them.

Yes, you need alot of sience to get them, i had some 5000+ over in my careerplay and was able to unlock immediatly... my Joolexploration makes sience all day long...

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Is that integrated into Community Tech Tree? ;) I can not see those parts.

Great job - keep going on them.

Given CTT is created by Nertea for the purpose of endgame mods like this, yes.

I would really like a bulkhead to separate sections.

Currently planned for one of a series of releases in the future. Patience, and you shall be rewarded.

Bug Report: Heavy RCS Blister floats far outwards from the surface of attachment in both angle snap and free placement modes.

Cannot replicate. Are you attempting to attach it in radial symmetry? KSP does not handle radial symmetry >2x on non-cylindrical parts well at all (try attaching anything in 4x to the side edges of a mk2 fuselage).

Does anyone have a basic craft file using these mk4 parts that they'd be willing to share? I'm super curious to play with them, but my spaceplane design team appear to have missed the aerodynamics classes taught by the SPH, and nothing I can put together seems to get into orbit.

I could pass you some of mine, but they're all hack-togethers from alpha testing. THey're getting redone for better efficiency.

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OK, I haven't paid much attention to spaceplanes in the past, but I managed to make my own design with this Mod.

idnPhqT.jpg

Not the best of pics, but I think you can see the basics. A lot of air-intakes and a cargo-bay behind the fuel tank. Without the engine pods on the wing it struggled to get enough speed and altitude. It uses the B9 procedural wings, and without those outer sections it struggled to get in the air. As much as possible I wanted to use parts from the Mk4 set, and from stock.

After a few problems with the control response being excessive at speed I think I got the balance better to start with. I'm still not sure I have the linkage between air-intakes and engines right.

Take-off speeds were around 150m/s, which is pretty crazy. Re-entry was a very long high-speed glide, over-shot by over 100km

OK, it works, but things are not quite right.

Oh, and the Mk4 cockpit is very crash-resistant.

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You can probably make do with half of those intakes... and have a lot less drag as a result.

Looking good though, otherwise :)

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Hey Nertea, awesome work, as always...THX!

I've made a MFT-patch, feel free to include it to your download.

Btw, the "Heavy Extended Engine Nacelle " aka "mk4enginenacelle-25-1" has entry costs of 385000. Seems too high by an order of magnitude compared to the other parts?

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I wonder about the intakes too.

I did a bit of searching on the Wiki, and it's something not well-explained. I suspect there may have been changes since some of the Wiki pages were written.

Both the amount of intake air needed, and the way that air gets distributed between intakes and engines.

Point is, I did get it into space, and I don't have a lot of experience building planes in KSP.

I decided to delete the big-spaceplane mods I had, they were overloading my system, I'll likely have to make a parallel install without some of the 5m parts packs. And, I will be honest, I don't use IVAs very much. That crew module, essentially a box high in a cargo bay, looks good but what do you do with the interior view of something that is essentially an airliner cabin.

It's a try-out project, but a crew cabin that can be attached to a cargo bay is something I can see myself making. No IVA, but a central attachment node connects to an offset box. Maybe a couple of attachment nodes for a docking port. Rotate it to put the crew compartment at the top or bottom of a cargo bay. Make the node locations right, and you could put a space telescope so that it can look out of the open cargo doors.

It would be two parts instead of one, but it would be a bit like the real-world SpaceLab stuff carried by the Shuttle. On my test flights I had a fair number of science parts mounted on the rear bulkhead of the cockpit. And no IVA would make the top-or-bottom choice fairly easy.

As a practical working point. the Mk4 cockpit and the Spacelab module would be fitted with attachments without needing the rest of the spaceplane active in the SPH. You'd need a cargo bay section to check clearances. Maybe a square cupola-like module that, with different .cfg files, could be extra crew space, or a science lab. Also a KIS/KAS compatible pallet-thing.

I may have come up with something here...

A duplicate install with spaceplanes instead of big boosters looks worth it. But after I replace my 5yo boot-drive...

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Great mod,

A problem I am encountering is that the parts break apart if you attempt any manuevering above .6 or .7 mach.

Also I having issues with wings because they require so many parts, any recommendations on a wing part mod to go with this? Or a procedural wings mod?

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Great mod,

A problem I am encountering is that the parts break apart if you attempt any manuevering above .6 or .7 mach.

Also I having issues with wings because they require so many parts, any recommendations on a wing part mod to go with this? Or a procedural wings mod?

For the first problem, get Kerbal Joint Reinforcement. It's not the end of wobbly rockets and fragile aircraft, but it sure cuts down on it!

Secondly, get the B9 Aerospace Procedural Parts pack. Tweakable wings, and you can fill them with fuel, oxidizer, or both. They're a massive increase in your fuel supply for a craft.

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For the first problem, get Kerbal Joint Reinforcement. It's not the end of wobbly rockets and fragile aircraft, but it sure cuts down on it!

Secondly, get the B9 Aerospace Procedural Parts pack. Tweakable wings, and you can fill them with fuel, oxidizer, or both. They're a massive increase in your fuel supply for a craft.

I couldnt get B9 wings to work and KJR did more damage to my save than it fixed. Any solutions?

Specifically what B9 did was the wing part texture switcher didnt appear to be working (mass z-fighting) and I couldn't get any of the geometry options to kick in.

KJR just doesn't like me half the time.

Edited by Captain Sierra
somehow mass quote

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I couldnt get B9 wings to work and KJR did more damage to my save than it fixed. Any solutions?

Specifically what B9 did was the wing part texture switcher didnt appear to be working (mass z-fighting) and I couldn't get any of the geometry options to kick in.

KJR just doesn't like me half the time.

Very odd. What other major mods are you running?

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Very odd. What other major mods are you running?

Plugins of note:

Interstellar Fuel Switch

BahamutoD Animation Modules

EditorExtensions

Firespitter

HyperEdit

Kopernicus

No Offset Limits

Stock Bug Fix Modules

There's a bunch more but they're more minor or I'm assuming have no bearing on why the procedural wings don't work.

The KJR problem is usually result of my craft not needing KJR-level stabilization and thus applying that much strength is causing kraken summoning (also I run x64 half the time so there's that).

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