parts [1.12.x] Sounding Rockets! Start small. Dream big!

[Minwaabi]

Do you need a config to make this work with remote tech? I found this config from some earlier posts. Is it still needed? Does it still work?

// RTSoundingRockets

// This is free and unencumbered software released into the public domain.

// All the code from RemoteTech is in GPLv2

@PART[sR_NoseCone]:HAS[!MODULE[ModuleSPU],!MODULE[ModuleRTAntennaPassive]]:NEEDS[RemoteTech,UmbraSpaceIndustries]:AFTER[umbraSpaceIndustries]:FINAL

{

%MODULE[ModuleSPU]

{

}

%MODULE[ModuleRTAntennaPassive]

{

%TechRequired = start

%OmniRange = 100000

%TRANSMITTER

{

%PacketInterval = 0.3

%PacketSize = 2

%PacketResourceCost = 15.0

}

}

}

@PART[RTPassiveAntennaTech]:NEEDS[RemoteTech,UmbraSpaceIndustries]:AFTER[RemoteTech]:FINAL

{

@TechRequired = start

}

Edited May 9, 2015 by Minwaabi

[futrtrubl]

Do you need a config to make this work with remote tech? I found this config from some earlier posts. Is it still needed? Does it still work?

Check the remotetech changelog for your answer.

[Minwaabi]

Doh! Thanks. That's mildly frustrating. I was sure I had seen *somewhere* that RT and SR were integrated, but I searched and searched (this thread only) and couldn't find it anywhere. It was in the other thread.

[UnanimousCoward]

So it seems like nuFAR and SR don't get along very well. SR's fins don't lower the CoL anywhere near enough to be stable with FAR installed.

Tilted fins also impart absolutely zero spin. Result: rocket flips out after 500 m and gracefully spins end over end into the ground...

I may have to play around with increasing the lift on the fins and see if that helps...

[UnanimousCoward]

So it turns out that the fins need to have ModuleLiftingSurface replaced by FARWingAerodynamicModel in order to work properly with FAR.

This MM config will make the smallest fins behave properly under FAR:

@PART[SR_Wing03]:NEEDS[FerramAerospaceResearch]:FOR[FerramAerospaceResearch] 
{
    @maximum_drag = 0
    @minimum_drag = 0
    @angularDrag = 0
    !MODULE[ModuleLiftingSurface] {}
    %MODULE[FARWingAerodynamicModel] {
        %b_2 = 0.6088
        %MAC = 0.7534
        %TaperRatio = 0.2074
        %MidChordSweep = 35.82
        %rootMidChordOffsetFromOrig = 0, 0.18835, 0
    }
}

The numbers are just cloned from the data for the basic fin in FerramAerospaceResearch.cfg, so will need tweaking - and I wouldn't have a clue where to start.

Next problem is that the chute does nothing under FAR - digging around, this appears to be because I have RealChutes installed. With no RealChutes, FAR replaces ModuleParachute in all parts with a "RealChuteLite" module, but not if RealChutes is installed.

Guess the solution is to write a config that replaces ModuleParachute with either a RealChuteLite or RealChute module when RealChutes is installed. I've tried using the code in FAR's RealChuteLite.cfg, but no luck so far. Not an MM expert, so if anyone could point out where I might be going wrong in this code, that would be a help...

@PART[SR_NoseCone_*]:NEEDS[FerramAerospaceResearch&RealChute]:FOR[FerramAerospaceResearch]
{
        //Copies ModuleParachute to transform it into RealChute
        +MODULE[ModuleParachute]
        {
                @name = RealChuteFAR
        }

    //Removes stock sounds
    !sound_parachute_open
    !sound_parachute_single


        //Effects
        EFFECTS
        {
                rcpredeploy
                {
                        AUDIO
                        {
                                channel = Ship
                                clip = sound_parachute_open
                                volume = 1
                        }
                }

                rcdeploy
                {
                        AUDIO
                        {
                                channel = Ship
                                clip = sound_parachute_single
                                volume = 1
                        }
                }

                rccut
                {
                        AUDIO
                        {
                                channel = Ship
                                clip = FerramAerospaceResearch/RealChuteLite/Sounds/sound_parachute_cut
                                volume = 1
                        }
                }

                rcrepack
                {
                        AUDIO
                        {
                                channel = Ship
                                clip = FerramAerospaceResearch/RealChuteLite/Sounds/sound_parachute_repack
                                volume = 1
                        }
                }
        }
}

[Gfurst]

Guess the solution is to write a config that replaces ModuleParachute with either a RealChuteLite or RealChute module when RealChutes is installed. I've tried using the code in FAR's RealChuteLite.cfg, but no luck so far. Not an MM expert, so if anyone could point out where I might be going wrong in this code, that would be a help...

Look a couple of post above, I've already done that, compatibility patch for RealChutes, don't know if will work with the lite version....

Read the thread a bit folks, for gods sakes...

[UnanimousCoward]

Look a couple of post above, I've already done that, compatibility patch for RealChutes, don't know if will work with the lite version....

Read the thread a bit folks, for gods sakes...

Maybe I'm misreading your tone, but you come across as a bit snippy, for no good reason as far as I can see. I haven't just turned up here saying "Broke. Fix it now!" - I'm actually trying to resolve this for myself. I'm trying to write a config that will use the RealChuteLite module from FAR, and I asked for help.

I do regularly read this thread but I came across this issue while I was in the middle of writing a post about getting the fins working, so excuse me for missing your post. Given that I'm actually trying to understand how this all works and fits together for myself, you're not really being very helpful.

Yes, I can use your config, and I probably will - but that doesn't mean I can't try and work things out for myself, does it?

Edited May 9, 2015 by UnanimousCoward

[Gfurst]

Yes, I can use your config, and I probably will - but that doesn't mean I can't try and work things out for myself, does it?

Sorry if I toned up a bit, but certainly you should figure things out for yourself too, that's why I did the patch also.

Check out the last link in my description, patches and fixes for stuff, I think You will find it interesting.

The reason why I was being "snippy", is that simply lately there have been lots and lots of people asking repetitive stuff, not only but in several other threads, people seem to be writing to much without doing any research/finding out for themselves.

Either way, last take a deep breath and not take the discussion further into a thread that is not ours.

[UnanimousCoward]

Check out the last link in my description, patches and fixes for stuff, I think You will find it interesting.

Already have, my man, already have

The reason why I was being "snippy", is that simply lately there have been lots and lots of people asking repetitive stuff, not only but in several other threads, people seem to be writing to much without doing any research/finding out for themselves.

I've noticed that as well - and I've commented on it myself elsewhere.

In any event, now I'm thinking that the RealChuteLite module is probably completely disabled when RealChute is installed, so I'll gratefully use your config.

Either way, last take a deep breath and not take the discussion further into a thread that is not ours.

Amen to that, brother.

[Drew Kerman]

The numbers are just cloned from the data for the basic fin in FerramAerospaceResearch.cfg, so will need tweaking - and I wouldn't have a clue where to start.

This tutorial should still be applicable

[UnanimousCoward]

This tutorial should still be applicable

Yeah, discovered that a little while ago, thanks. Now I'm furiously measuring fins in Blender, and I think I'm getting somewhere. This stuff's all new to me...

There's one property in most configs in FerramAerospaceResearch.cfg that I'm not sure about, though: "rootMidChordOffsetFromOrig". It's not mentioned in that (very useful) tutorial, and it's not in the FAR readme either. Guessing it's something new.

Guess I'll have to go ask over in the FAR thread.

[futrtrubl]

Yeah, discovered that a little while ago, thanks. Now I'm furiously measuring fins in Blender, and I think I'm getting somewhere. This stuff's all new to me...

There's one property in most configs in FerramAerospaceResearch.cfg that I'm not sure about, though: "rootMidChordOffsetFromOrig". It's not mentioned in that (very useful) tutorial, and it's not in the FAR readme either. Guessing it's something new.

Guess I'll have to go ask over in the FAR thread.

Or you could clone the FAR aero settings from before RD took them out of Sounding Rockets.

[Minwaabi]

I used Gfurst's patch to make Real Chutes compatible with SR. Or at least I tried to. Now I seem to have two parachutes when I deploy my parachutes on the sounding rocket. One seems to be the one the game treats as a parachute and the other seems to be a parachute-mass on a string. Is that normal or did I possibly install the patch wrong? If it helps I have FAR, real chutes, and sounding rockets installed.

[Gfurst]

I used Gfurst's patch to make Real Chutes compatible with SR. Or at least I tried to. Now I seem to have two parachutes when I deploy my parachutes on the sounding rocket. One seems to be the one the game treats as a parachute and the other seems to be a parachute-mass on a string. Is that normal or did I possibly install the patch wrong? If it helps I have FAR, real chutes, and sounding rockets installed.

No, this actually happened to me too, no FAR issue, I think it is a issue with the model used, it just a clone of the chute on the longitudinal axis. It doesn't affect gameplay at all though.

By the way, could you post on my thread the patch for SR fins, so I can add them too.

[UnanimousCoward]

Or you could clone the FAR aero settings from before RD took them out of Sounding Rockets.

So at least 3 people think more clearly than I do (2 in ferram's thread) ;-)

Still, those configs don't include rootMidChordOffsetFromOrig, which almost all the new FAR configs do.

[UnanimousCoward]

Using the FAR config settings from the previous version without the rootMidChordOffsetFromOrig seems to work, at least for the smallest fins - the rocket flies like it should. Aerodynamic forces ripped off the chute nosecone though, so some degree of thrust control will be necessary, it seems.

If you tilt the fins by 5 degrees, it gets a huge amount of spin - to the point where it looks like it's about to tear itself to pieces:

Even the small engine will take this rocket to over 10 km altitude, though, which seems a little OP compared to the 5 km or so it would achieve in stock.

Edited May 10, 2015 by UnanimousCoward
corrected error

[Gfurst]

Using the FAR config settings from the previous version without the rootMidChordOffsetFromOrig seems to work, at least for the smallest fins - the rocket flies like it should. Aerodynamic forces ripped off the chute nosecone though, so some degree of thrust control will be necessary, it seems.

If you tilt the fins by 5 degrees, it gets a huge amount of spin - to the point where it looks like it's about to tear itself to pieces:

http://i.imgur.com/QV2vAYQ.png

Even the small engine will take this rocket to over 10 km altitude, though, which seems a little OP compared to the 5 km or so it would achieve in stock.

Yup, but if you you're thinking of sounding rockets they're are supposed to pierce to air like, are you using the original or my configs?

In stock they had quite an ceiling limit due to the fact that drag was being properly calculated, eg, the nosecone wasn't helping at all.

Maybe the fins could do with a little nerf for their appropriated sizes, and please post those over on my thread too, I want to add them.

[RoverDude]

Catching up on the thread... I expect folks are now seeing why I have removed out of the box support for anything other than stock aero / stock chutes

Feel free to share away tho

[UnanimousCoward]

Default config. Maybe I'll give yours a try a little later. I'll post the configs here and on your thread when I get a moment - for some reason my wife and kids seem to think that they're more important. :-P

[Drew Kerman]

what's up with the fins? Looks like they aren't attached to the rocket body

[Svm420]

what's up with the fins? Looks like they aren't attached to the rocket body

I think that it is spinning as he said about setting them at a 5* angle. It get such high rotation the wings appear to pull away from the body. Same thing happens if you spin and use warp parts appear to pull away.

[UnanimousCoward]

what's up with the fins? Looks like they aren't attached to the rocket body

It's a result of the crazy amount of spin it picked up with the tail fins tilted by 5 degrees. You can see the experiments poking through the fairings as well - they were inside it at launch. Really got the feeling it was about to tear itself apart.

Anyway, here's the config:

@PART[SR_Wing01]:NEEDS[FerramAerospaceResearch]:FOR[FerramAerospaceResearch] 
{
    @maximum_drag = 0
    @minimum_drag = 0
    @angularDrag = 0
    !MODULE[ModuleLiftingSurface] {}
    MODULE
    {
        name = FARWingAerodynamicModel
        MAC = 0.9746
        MidChordSweep = 0
        b_2 = 0.9749
        TaperRatio = 0.9492
    }
}


@PART[SR_Wing02]:NEEDS[FerramAerospaceResearch]:FOR[FerramAerospaceResearch] 
{
    @maximum_drag = 0
    @minimum_drag = 0
    @angularDrag = 0
    !MODULE[ModuleLiftingSurface] {}
    MODULE
    {
        name = FARWingAerodynamicModel
        MAC = 0.625
        MidChordSweep = 23.12
        b_2 = 0.5
        TaperRatio = 0.6667
    }
}


@PART[SR_Wing03]:NEEDS[FerramAerospaceResearch]:FOR[FerramAerospaceResearch] 
{
    @maximum_drag = 0
    @minimum_drag = 0
    @angularDrag = 0
    !MODULE[ModuleLiftingSurface] {}
    MODULE
    {
        name = FARWingAerodynamicModel
        MAC = 0.625
        MidChordSweep = 4.07
        b_2 = 0.3
        TaperRatio = 0.6667
    }
}

I've tested it with these three rockets:

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None of them would get above 500 m before flipping out before. They all fly OK with this config. Well, the two smaller ones tore themselves to pieces at full thrust after the SRB separated and dropped away. The top part flips end over end, and aerodynamic forces rip the nosecone off.

The small one survived with a launch TWR of 1.5; the middle one did OK with a TWR of 1.75. The larger one's made of sterner stuff and survived at full thrust - I think because the SRB stage actually lifts up into the truss and hangs around for a while until it's going more slowly, rather than dropping away immediately.

So, it's far from perfect - but at least they'll fly in FAR until there's a proper update.

Usual deal, for those unfamiliar: copy/paste into a text file. Name it [whateveryoulike].cfg and put it anywhere in your GameData folder. Most importantly - remember to delete it when someone who actually knows what they're doing updates things.

Edited May 10, 2015 by UnanimousCoward

[futrtrubl]

what's up with the fins? Looks like they aren't attached to the rocket body

Like he said, the fins are angled to create spin. So much spin "to the point where it looks like it's about to tear itself to pieces:"

[UnanimousCoward]

Just a little update: if you put 4 fins on the rockets in symmetrical pairs, 2 straight and 2 tilted at 5 degrees, it provides enough spin to keep the nosecone stable after the SRB separates. Helps if you adjust the TWR to keep it more or less subsonic as well.

[Overlocker]

The Sounding Rockets are a very useful when very early at tech tree as an alternative to launching ''Fleas'' with command pods on top of them, but I think the science experiments work a bit OP when you can use it EVERYWHERE. So I don't mean that it can't be used anywhere but the Kerbin atmosphere, because I like the idea of using it with KIS on other planets, but I prefer to only use it on ATMOSPHERES, because is more realistic. Think about in normal TechTree or CTT you can use it to do near all the early records and contracts unti you reach the Orbit Kerbin one, then other rockets are more useful, so the idea of atmospheric only experiments will be great

I don't know if anyone noticed my post in the middle of this Gfurst-Roverdude conversation about Aerodynamics:rolleyes: