KSP 0.90 'Beta Than Ever' Grand Discussion Thread!

[NASAHireMe]

Another comment on the difficulty of the 0.90 career mode:

For someone just beginning to play this game, who doesn't understand how orbits work or why TWR is important at lift-off, etc., I would highly recommend that they play Sandbox first. This seems counterintuitive-- wasn't the purpose of the new career mode to gradually teach people how to play?

The truth is that learning all the orbital dynamics stuff is hard. Hard even with a plethora of tutorials and unlimited funds. Even though my day job is very close to aerospace engineering, even MY first orbiting rocket was something like 80+ parts. My first Mun lander took two real-life days to build and fly.

Of course, people rightly watch Scott Manley videos in which he gets to Jool in a 9-part rocket or read Forum postings in which experienced players like myself tell newbies, "You shouldn't need 80 parts for a basic orbiter!", and then they wonder why they're so dumb. They're not. EVERYONE GOES THROUGH THIS LEARNING PROCESS. Everyone's first spacecraft are always overengineered, poorly designed, stupidly planned.

That's why I liked how generous the 0.25 career modes were. They gave you lots and lots of cushion (by way of very generous funding) in the early stages of gameplay so that you could build and experiment your way to knowledge.

The very worst part of playing Kerbal for me was wanting to experiment with different rocket designs so that I could understand how they functioned, but not having the funds to do it. So I had to fulfill annoying and frustrating contracts like "Test this part at 15000m" that didn't do anything for me educationally but I had to do so I could do what I really wanted to do, which was learn through experimentation.

Anyways, that's my rant. I hope that experienced players remember that we were all inexperienced once, and that sometimes the best advice is advice that's 'technically' wrong but may serve to illustrate a concept better.

[z26]

Right now the engineers are a bit useless compared to the 2 other classes. When deep space refuelling is implemented, they might be the only class able to operate the ressource extracting manchinery. That would make them quite useful. Also, if kerbal attachement system was added into stock engineers could be the only ones with access to the kas functionalities.

Overall, kerbal experience is well implemented. Only one thing I'm worried about: some probes cores seems advanced enough to remplace pilots completely. I personally feel like the advanced probes cores should have basic sas, but nothing else.

And like everybody else already mentionned, some buildings are way too costly to upgrade. But overall 0.90 seems to be the nicest upgrade regarding carrier mode so far.

And so far as the perceived difficulty of the new carrier mode: Squad is so often accused of trying too much to cater to new players, so an update like this one adding some depth is a breath of fresh air .

Edited December 16, 2014 by z26

[Xavven]

Another comment on the difficulty of the 0.90 career mode:

For someone just beginning to play this game, who doesn't understand how orbits work or why TWR is important at lift-off, etc., I would highly recommend that they play Sandbox first. This seems counterintuitive-- wasn't the purpose of the new career mode to gradually teach people how to play?

The truth is that learning all the orbital dynamics stuff is hard. Hard even with a plethora of tutorials and unlimited funds. Even though my day job is very close to aerospace engineering, even MY first orbiting rocket was something like 80+ parts. My first Mun lander took two real-life days to build and fly.

Of course, people rightly watch Scott Manley videos in which he gets to Jool in a 9-part rocket or read Forum postings in which experienced players like myself tell newbies, "You shouldn't need 80 parts for a basic orbiter!", and then they wonder why they're so dumb. They're not. EVERYONE GOES THROUGH THIS LEARNING PROCESS. Everyone's first spacecraft are always overengineered, poorly designed, stupidly planned.

That's why I liked how generous the 0.25 career modes were. They gave you lots and lots of cushion (by way of very generous funding) in the early stages of gameplay so that you could build and experiment your way to knowledge.

The very worst part of playing Kerbal for me was wanting to experiment with different rocket designs so that I could understand how they functioned, but not having the funds to do it. So I had to fulfill annoying and frustrating contracts like "Test this part at 15000m" that didn't do anything for me educationally but I had to do so I could do what I really wanted to do, which was learn through experimentation.

Anyways, that's my rant. I hope that experienced players remember that we were all inexperienced once, and that sometimes the best advice is advice that's 'technically' wrong but may serve to illustrate a concept better.

Oh yeah, totally. I remember my first day on KSP where just reaching orbit was a huge deal for me. I haven't played on Normal or Easy in a long time, though, nor the tutorials. Maybe I'll check them out to see if I think a new player with no Aerospace background would have a reasonable chance. Otherwise, I can't comment, other than to say Hard mode career will destroy a newbie.

[Xavven]

Right now the engineers are a bit useless compared to the 2 other classes. When deep space refuelling is implemented, they might be the only class able to operate the ressource extracting manchinery. That would make them quite useful. Also, if kerbal attachement system was added into stock engineers could be the only ones with access to the kas functionalities.

Yeah, I think the only reason for me to bring one along would be for a reusable Duna lander or Laythe lander, for repacking chutes, and rovers for repairing wheels.

But wait! I need a pilot to land the lander. And I need a scientist to maximize my science return, and my lander can only supports 2 Kerbals! What to do? I think the balance will turn out alright.

[noahtech]

Grab your pilot?

Even with a pilot it still won't let me use SAS most of the time.

[Renegrade]

I love the initial, bumpy dirt runway (it's hilarious), but it struck me as a bit odd.

My planes are designed for landing and takeoff from rough surfaces (high L/D ratio, low mass, good ground clearance, wide/long wheelbase, slow takeoff/landing capability) as I generally use them to collect science in and around KSC (most of Kerbin's biomes are available a short flight from KSC), but I've noticed two things:

1. Most of KSC is perfectly flat and the terrain around it is some of the smoothest available outside of the poles on Kerbin

2. The wilds of Kerbin are also generally smoother than that crazy runway.

Plus, it's not all that hard to taxi off the runway and do a smooth takeoff from the shoulder or such, and taxi back on it after landing. So really, the runway's roughness is a non-issue in many ways so.. why is so bumpy?

Oh well. It's good testing I guess: If you can land there, you can land anywhere

[Xacktar]

All I have to say is that career is so much fun now. Really digging all of the new stuff together!

[morscience]

Why cant you just put the old slots into custom ones

[Joonatan1998]

When kerbals make a runway the add speed bumps because they think it will help the plane to slow down faster?

(later runways don't have them because they later realized that they hate having to slow down?)

[peachoftree]

Loving the new update. turns out rescueing a kerbal from orbit is really hard without detailed information or sas

[WanderingKid]

Even with a pilot it still won't let me use SAS most of the time.

Note that you don't need a Kerbal, you need a pilot. Out of the starting 3, only Jeb's a pilot. Check in the Astronaut Facility to see what different Kerbal's specialties are. A no xp pilot will give you SAS. They just get neat auto-pilot things later.

[klesh]

Thanks for the new editor functions and spaceplane parts! I'm not so sure the other stuff is for me or not yet, but I've just deleted all my mods and might have a go at stock to see what's what.

Have a nice holidays, Squad.

[Mr_Brain]

Isn't there a cheaper part you can use as a one-part craft, "launch" it and get the contract reward for putting something (and even if it's just a non-controlled girder) on the launchpad? That'll give you enough funds for the capsule, if I'm not mistaken.

[FlowerChild]

Does anyone know what "Research Science Limit" for the R&D building does? I assumed it was some kind of cap on how much science you can accumulate at any one time, but after exceeding it, that doesn't appear to be the case.

[WanderingKid]

Does anyone know what "Research Science Limit" for the R&D building does? I assumed it was some kind of cap on how much science you can accumulate at any one time, but after exceeding it, that doesn't appear to be the case.

It's the maximum you can spend to open a research node. So, 100 at the Tier 1 R&D Center means the highest you can open is the 90 level, or Tier 4/5 (depends on how you count).

[noahtech]

Note that you don't need a Kerbal, you need a pilot. Out of the starting 3, only Jeb's a pilot. Check in the Astronaut Facility to see what different Kerbal's specialties are. A no xp pilot will give you SAS. They just get neat auto-pilot things later.

Oh. What about the unmanned pods like the stayputnik?

[Franklin]

Right now the engineers are a bit useless compared to the 2 other classes.

Yeah, it's the only class [right now] that you can avoid entirely by just being careful. Like how the repair costs on buildings is completely avoidable by not launching directly over them.

Hopefully the class will get skills that you can't just be careful to avoid, but at the same time this would be a good opportunity for Squad to implement [rare/wear-related] part failures only the Engineers can fix. A locked flap, a solar panel that won't deploy, a shorted battery. There's opportunity to make the routine of it all more [rarely] exciting.

[Renegrade]

When kerbals make a runway the add speed bumps because they think it will help the plane to slow down faster?

Hehe, that does seem like Kerbally logic.

Of course maybe the idea is that it's still under construction, but the Kerbals are getting impatient and using it anyways... I've always gotten the impression that Jeb is rather "space now, safety later"...

[Superfluous J]

Well, the elitists should be happy. KSP is now hard and grindy. Scraping money from contracts so I can upgrade buildings so that I can build workable rockets and my Kerbals can start collecting science. Good times. Time to do something I've not had to do in career KSP on normal difficulty: cheat.

The initial set of building upgrades is either way too expensive, or the contract payouts are way too lean. Therefore I'm grinding for money. The lack of ways to gather science (no samples and no EVA) means I'm also grinding for science.

KSP career on normal difficulty should not be an exercise in grinding hundreds of thousands of dollars in order to start doing interesting things.

Never thought of myself as "elite" before but I'll take the compliment as I absolutely LOVE career mode now. There's no shame in knocking the difficulty down or giving yourself extra staring funds or science or rep. It's not cheating to tweak a single player game so it's fun for you.

In 0.25 I tweaked the game super hard for a playthrough. Had a blast but it was quite a chore to just get anything done. If 0.90 hadn't come out I'd have started my next career on "Easy" mode just to get through that early grind quicker. It never occurred to me to think that this was somehow "wrong."

[Renegrade]

Does anyone know what "Research Science Limit" for the R&D building does? I assumed it was some kind of cap on how much science you can accumulate at any one time, but after exceeding it, that doesn't appear to be the case.

It caps how big of a node you can buy - the 100 limit prevents you from buying any node past the 90 nodes, for instance.

[TeeGee]

Absolutely incredible update! The gizmos is BY FAR the best thing to happen to this game this year.

Now all we need is the polish, improved parts, better aerodynamics, reentry heat and I'll be a happy camper!

Well done Squad and ENJOY YOUR HOLIDAY'S!!! You guys/girls deserve it!

[FlowerChild]

It's the maximum you can spend to open a research node. So, 100 at the Tier 1 R&D Center means the highest you can open is the 90 level, or Tier 4/5 (depends on how you count).

Ah! Cool. Thanks man

[Alewx]

Beta than ever, is currently not able to run properly in fullscreen on a SLI system where the sourund option is enabled, but I know that it is more a problem of unity than of KSP.

To make it clear, no mods, 32bit and 64bit in dx9 and dx11.

[The Jedi Master]

New Mk.3 cockpit IVA!

Why is this so hard, Squad?!

[Wjolcz]

Why is this so hard, Squad?!

It was only PorkJet making the parts. He simply didn't have time to make the IVA for it. He did a great job in such a short time anyway.

I'm very happy with the update.