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KSP 0.90 'Beta Than Ever' Grand Discussion Thread!


KasperVld
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So this goes for 0.90 and previous versions,

As I am coming for an approach to the KSC with a spaceplane that has deorbitted(this is based on the basic eastbound orbit), a little after i pass the mountain range nearest KSC my planes wings always fall off and when i check the flight status, it says my wings COLLIDED WITH THE LAUNCHPAD. and basically i can pull an amazing crashing landing off or jus crash and burn.

DOES ANYONE ELSES SPACEPLANES COLLIDE WITH THE LAUNCHPAD WHILE FLYING BY THE NEAREST MOUNTAINS NEXT TO KSC?

its a bug but ill accept it as a Kerbal engineering failure. but anyone else get this?

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I've been playing vanilla 0.90 career since the update (though I finally got bored and put FAR/DRE/etc back in) and thought I'd post some observations. Some pertain to the career as it existed pre-0.90, others are obviously directed at Fine Print as implemented in 0.90, and a few perhaps at the new facility upgrades, etc.

Overall, little has changed in the "big picture" sense. You can still start from nothing, and have bases on other worlds (Mun/Minmus) in a few months of game time.

John F Kerman: "We choose to go to the Mun in this decade (aid whispers in ear). "Sorry, this month…" (aid whispers again)... "by the end of the WEEK, not because it is easy---OK, OK, because it is easy!"

The only thing that pushes time forward in KSP is time compression for missions to farther bodies. Stick around Kerbin SOI, and it's impossible not to unlock/upgrade everything before the first Duna launch window happens. I got a friend to buy the game, and I will ask how he's doing (I know he crashed on the Mun the other evening after a few nights of play, but Jeb survived so he was planning a rescue).

Science:

Sadly, unchanged. Cart largely before horse with this and tech tree, IMO.

Tech Tree:

Again, sadly, unchanged. I'd like to see more variable paths through the tree, and have them make more sense.

Contracts:

A few general observations before specifics.

1. There are too many of them, and many are just absurd.

2. Dismissing a contract should not replace it with a new one. Contracts should expire in a semi-random date range between a few hours, and a few months (they are sort of like this now). But no new contract should be forthcoming until the existing ones expire, if you take them or not. Rescue missions would expire very quickly, and would require near immediate completion.

Parts testing:

1. Many (most?) already in game need to be done away with. Jet engine on a world with no oxygen to burn? Deleted. Spashed down engine tests? Deleted. Booster rocket tested at 12,000m? Deleted. You get the idea. Few would remain, frankly, almost all are just dumb. Any that remain should have intelligent requirements.

2. Some new contracts need to be added, however. "Test the Mk1-2 pod reentering from an apoapsis of 12 million meters," for example. Or "Launch 2 clamp-o-trons, and successfully perform a docking in orbit around Kerbin." Test landing legs on minmus, or whatever. Realistic flight tests that drive actual missions, not contraptions to test something in an odd way.

3. Parts testing contracts should only rarely happen more than once, if they ever do at all. You static tested the 909 engine at KSC? Great, it's 1 in 1000 that you'll ever see that mission again in this career (or simply zero if that is easier).

4. Perhaps part testing can be an additional requirement to open tech tree nodes? i.e.: science points PLUS a few targeted part testing contracts.

5. If a part really needs another part, they should come together to test. No giant engine tests without matching fuel tanks, no ion engines without xenon tanks, etc. Make it possible to use parts testing for REAL missions, not just absurd contraptions.

Exploration:

1. These can be increased… add some general explore options for solar orbit, flybys, etc.

Plant flag:

1. Meh. These can mostly go away and be replaced with specific part testing contracts. If a device mfg wants you to "plant a flag," what they want is their part on the Mun. Regardless, they should be geome specific (I'm not gonna use "biome" for places sans "bio" any more). Stepping out a few times a month to plant a flag next to your lander to gain funds should not be a thing.

Visual Observation/Surface collection/EVA report/Temp/Seismic/Atmospheric Observation (new with 0.90). Good idea, needs a lot of work.:

1. Visual observation needs some new parts. Cameras at a few levels. Low res (wide field), medium res, and high res. Can be added to probes, or assumed for some command/habitat pods, or can be new science parts you have to add to craft (in which case the low res camera should be available right away). Mk1 and early probe core have low res. Mk1-2, and science lab have all 3, other might have medium. Perhaps a scientist gets 1 camera better than the pod has (in which case they all top off at medium, and the scientist is required for high res images that are useful). Other instruments possible as well.

2. Assuming #1 above, the altitude requirements for visual observations would then be replaced with a limit based on resolution needed. With lower res you might need to be at <6000m, but that might double for medium, and double again for a high res camera. This would allow completion at various levels of play. So instead of observing Nerd's Gamma from under 7500m, the requirement would be to take high resolution imagery of Nerd's Gamma (which might then be defined as Below 30,000m for a high-res camera, 15,000m for a medium res, and below 7500m for the low res.

3. EVA reports. These are OK, but it's really hard to find the sites once landed (mark on navball is not a thing for EVA). Perhaps these could be related to one another, as they come in groups. Do the camera pass, which then gives a more precise target marker on the surface for EVA/collection (maybe doing the camera pass successfully could allow the map views to be zoomed in more so you know which way to walk?). So VO pass unlocks positions for sample/eva missions.

4. Sample collection. Same as 3, should be linked as above to the orbital observations.

5. Kerbin versions should all require orbital stuff, not surface collection. I need to build a craft to fly to the north pole, yet I hit "recover" and we can simply drive a truck there to retrieve my spacecraft? Why did I risk a spacecraft instead of just driving? I'd dump all those, I never do them, exploring Kerbin seems absurd to me when I can recover spacecraft instantly from anywhere.

Satellite contracts:

1. These mostly make sense, it's something space programs do. Around Kerbin, that is.

2. Dump the ones for other worlds or rewrite them as space probes (camera, perhaps other instruments?) until the player has already unlocked the "explore" contract for that world (don't need a comsat around Duna if no one is there).

Stations/bases:

1. They are OK, but some make no sense, and I've had trouble building them from sections and having the game accept them (contrary to the unlocking exploit posted here, I cannot get them accepted, lol). It's why I have not taken Mun base contracts as I don't want to work for a Hab for 18, get it all hooked together, then find that it won't accept it because the first part I landed didn't have an antenna, because the science lab part already did, and I didn't want one on each or something.

2. Getting them for other worlds when I have not yet explored them seems dumb. There should be a reason to explore or send a probe first.

Science from orbit:

1. It's fine, even with the ability to switch to a station, and do it over and over, but the contracts need to be spaced out in time, right now you could probably do dozens of these before the spacecraft completes one orbit if you were willing to dismiss contract after contract.

Rescue:

1. I have a long post on this. They need to have ships, crashed landers, etc.

Progression:

Generally, they need to make more sense as the game progresses, and they need to be spread out so that you don't have a Mun colony a month after the space center opens. Parts testing contracts with useful goals can facilitate early players doing stuff they lack the unlocked parts for. Larger engines need to come with appropriate fuel tanks, for example.

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Apologies for being too impatient to read through all 390743906498 pages of this thread, but anyway.

I've looked all over for a clear explanation of the "root" gizmo and how it works specifically and not seen anything. Now before everyone goes "just click a part and then click another part", I know that part already and have successfully re-rooted a few craft with it. The question arises when I muse on the need to click two parts rather than just one. The popup text says "Click a part to select it as the root" and then "Click a part to attach by". What do those mean specifically? Can I re-root part of a craft but not the whole thing? What happens if the two parts I pick aren't connected?

Long story short, if there's a tutorial hanging around somewhere can I please have a link to it?

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It allows you to change the root part of the craft file. Originally, early versions required this to be a command pod, and later certain parts allowed to be selected as the first part (root part). Changing the original part prior to 0.90 involved temporarily removing all parts on the original part, tossing that part away, getting a new one, and then reattaching the floating parts.

Now, you can do this by selecting the root mode gizmo, left-click on the original part (first one you selected), and then click on the new part you want to be the root part. That's it! :)

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I searched for a bit, but couldn't find anything directly appropriate.

Is there any way to wake up unconscious Kerbals? Aside from cheating and editing the save file...which I figured out how to do.

Seems silly that they can take surface samples and provide EVA reports while unconscious, but can't leave their seat. They also talk excitedly.

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I got that. I've literally done that. What I wanted was details - what happens when I click some other thing? Is it possible to re-root some parts, but not the whole ship?

Not sure I understand what you mean. There is only one root part per craft. The entire ship can only have one root part, not multiple. There are no other details beyond that. That gizmo just allows you to change the first part (root part) of the craft without disassembling the craft from that part first (non-invasive). No more, no less, unless a dev wants to comment further on it.

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I think get what parameciumkid is asking: It takes two clicks to reroot. What does the first click do? It is mysterious to me, it would seem that clicking once on the desired new root part should be sufficient. Then I thought that something new was implemented and the first click was to select whether it was the main vessel or a subassembly set aside that would get rerooted, but that does not appear to be the case (and even then a single click would do).

If anyone has figured out what the first click does and why it is necessary I would love to hear it.

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Awesome, that means I don't need to keep separate versions of the same subassembly with different roots anymore. That didn't seem to work when I tried it, I'll have to test it more carefully. Thanks for the info Kasper (and indirectly, HarvesteR).

Edit: Does not function that way for me. Attempting to select a detached assembly to reroot gives the message "No other valid parts to attach by in the current selection". (pic, log, clean Win32 install). Am I doing it wrong?

Hey, 6K!

Edited by Red Iron Crown
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Awesome, that means I don't need to keep separate versions of the same subassembly with different roots anymore. That didn't seem to work when I tried it, I'll have to test it more carefully. Thanks for the info Kasper (and indirectly, HarvesteR).

and that's Red Iron Crown's 6000th post! :confused:

Ontopic: the loading times in this game are killing me. One thing I like about this update, though: part clipping is on by default! That should solve many people's future headaches :)

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I would just like to say that all the new features put into 0.90 make it so much better than it was (and it was already great)! I haven't explored anything beyond Kerbin yet but the game is still engaging. The new contracts are fun, and the career is so much more challenging now that you have to pay for building upgrades to unlock critical features. As always, very well done Squad!

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UI needs:

More ship categories.

- A single antenna "(-" for basic communication satellites.

- A double antenna icon "-)(-" for advanced communication satellites.

- A wrench / hammer icon for "utility" ships.

- A second version/category of the "probe" ship icon

The ability to filter the list of displayed ships by a name search.

The ability to quickly hide all ships except the current vessel, and with a second click, restore the filter to what it was before.

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I just want the subassembly button back on the main categories. I don't use the filters (don't use parts packs so using the filters is just slower when I know where everything is) so having to move the "advanced" tab over just annoys me.

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Need a way to see what each kerbal's job is while in action. Not just recruitment center.

You can't remember what each kerbol's job after launching the vessel and you need to transfer a pilot from one vehicle to another.

..........................

Some way for the game to hint you in the direction that it is possible with what you have researched. That you can get to the mun, minimus, interplanetary.

In a new players mind. Bigger is better. However not as true as it seems. If you optimize what you have. You can make, it with what you have. Without going through hours of videos online.

Even then. The videos don't teach you to think on the fly.

However should I use a SRB or a rockomax booster. Well. An SRB will get me to 10+ without using my lv-.. So why not.

Then again, why am I always flipping the vehicle even with control surfaces and reaction wheels. Well now I need another SRB to compensate the weight of the reaction wheel. Along with more batteries. Need bigger solar panels. Now I need another SRB for more weight. Now my 2nd stage needs to be bigger to finish off the orbit. Another SRB to get 2nd stage up.

and so on.

I know its a difficult task to accomplish as it is an open build game. Yet some kind of pointer that says you can make it with what you have.

Maybe something in the tech tree. A node that unlocks when by an accomplishment.

Maybe organizing the career mode to only give out contracts according to what you have unlocked. (I know it can't be that accurate as some players pick it up quicker than others. Although something that points you in the right direction.

Example

This will lift 5T into orbit.

Stage

1. 2 Rockomax Booster

2. 2 fl-t800 2 fl-t200 2 lv-45 with fuel line

3. 1 fl-t800 1 fl-t400 1 lv-30

4. Shuttle finishes orbit and just enough to deorbit unwanted parts.

Stage 1, 2, 3 fire from ground and throttle back as speed gets to 175 until 10k

This will lift 5-6 T

Stage

1. 2 Rockomax Booster

2. 4 fl-t800 stacked on 2 lv-30 with fuel line

3. 1 Rockomax 64 1 main sail

4. 1 x200-8 1 Rockomax poodle to finish orbit and just enough to deorbit unwanted parts.

Stage 1, 2, 3, fires from ground as above.

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Sorry for hijacking this thread to complain about bugs, but I'm sad today because while I was building a new interplanetary mothership in the VAB, I apparently clicked wrong or something and the craft file ended up corrupted, as evidenced by a NullReferenceException every time I open it in the editor. All the parts appear, but the parts menu fails to show up properly and the stage list shows the parts as detached. KSP.log said something about how no root part was found after all parts were listed as children, which led me to think something was wrong with the parenting tree for the parts.

Long story short, does a craft file repair tool exist that works with 0.90 craft yet? I found a couple old ones, but they didn't work, so it'd be totally sweet if somebody could point me in the right direction.

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Sorry for hijacking this thread to complain about bugs, but I'm sad today because while I was building a new interplanetary mothership in the VAB, I apparently clicked wrong or something and the craft file ended up corrupted, as evidenced by a NullReferenceException every time I open it in the editor.

For the future, using the S.A.V.E. mod will backup your VAB/SPH craft files automatically. Windows 7 has the "previous versions" feature and OS X has Time Capsule, both of which can be used to dig out previous versions.

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Need a way to see what each kerbal's job is while in action. Not just recruitment center.

You can't remember what each kerbol's job after launching the vessel and you need to transfer a pilot from one vehicle to another.

..........................

Some way for the game to hint you in the direction that it is possible with what you have researched. That you can get to the mun, minimus, interplanetary.

In a new players mind. Bigger is better. However not as true as it seems. If you optimize what you have. You can make, it with what you have. Without going through hours of videos online.

Even then. The videos don't teach you to think on the fly.

However should I use a SRB or a rockomax booster. Well. An SRB will get me to 10+ without using my lv-.. So why not.

Then again, why am I always flipping the vehicle even with control surfaces and reaction wheels. Well now I need another SRB to compensate the weight of the reaction wheel. Along with more batteries. Need bigger solar panels. Now I need another SRB for more weight. Now my 2nd stage needs to be bigger to finish off the orbit. Another SRB to get 2nd stage up.

and so on.

I know its a difficult task to accomplish as it is an open build game. Yet some kind of pointer that says you can make it with what you have.

Maybe something in the tech tree. A node that unlocks when by an accomplishment.

Maybe organizing the career mode to only give out contracts according to what you have unlocked. (I know it can't be that accurate as some players pick it up quicker than others. Although something that points you in the right direction.

Example

This will lift 5T into orbit.

Stage

1. 2 Rockomax Booster

2. 2 fl-t800 2 fl-t200 2 lv-45 with fuel line

3. 1 fl-t800 1 fl-t400 1 lv-30

4. Shuttle finishes orbit and just enough to deorbit unwanted parts.

Stage 1, 2, 3 fire from ground and throttle back as speed gets to 175 until 10k

This will lift 5-6 T

Stage

1. 2 Rockomax Booster

2. 4 fl-t800 stacked on 2 lv-30 with fuel line

3. 1 Rockomax 64 1 main sail

4. 1 x200-8 1 Rockomax poodle to finish orbit and just enough to deorbit unwanted parts.

Stage 1, 2, 3, fires from ground as above.

You should go to the map view and look to the right side of your screen. There is an "i" icon which gives information about the ship or planet you are focusing on and under that "i" button there is usually a small kerbal icon which shows your current ships roster and also whether they are pilot, scientist, or engineer. Hope this helps.

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Need a way to see what each kerbal's job is while in action. Not just recruitment center.

You can't remember what each kerbol's job after launching the vessel and you need to transfer a pilot from one vehicle to another.

..........................

Get the texture Replacer Mod, then download various suit packs. My favorite is J's Suit Pack as it has three colors in it. Then you can use Texture Replacer in-game to assign different suits to the different jobs. It has helped tremendously.

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Get the texture Replacer Mod, then download various suit packs. My favorite is J's Suit Pack as it has three colors in it. Then you can use Texture Replacer in-game to assign different suits to the different jobs. It has helped tremendously.

Or if you go to your map view, there is an icon with a kerbal on it which can tell you the roster of the current ship selected. This kerbal icon also indicates each kerbals job.

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