[1.2.2] Realistic Progression Zero (RP-0) - Lightweight RealismOverhaul career v0.53 June 12

[Chatz]

Chatz: You can use the rotation gizmo, or Part Angle Display, for finer rotation. Regarding Highlands, though, that sounds like a biome issue. Do you have CustomBiomes installed? I recall there was a bug in a prior CKAN client (if you installed via CKAN) so you might need to check that out.

I don't have CustomBiomes installed. I installed TechManager by hand and then used CKAN to install RP-0 and its dependencies automatically, I also installed all recommended mods. The only non-standard mods I have are Active Texture Management, Science Alert, and Kerbal Engineer (instead of Mechjeb). Should I avoid using CKAN?

[ZaPPPa]

@Zapppa: I tried the parachute thing but it doesn't work for me. I can't seem to select 55000m pre-deployment (slider only goes up to 20000) and when I did try to predeploy, they got ripped out cause I'm moving too fast. Which is about what I expected to happen but figured I'd at least try.

You'll need to use the RealChutes configuration window for that, which pops up when you apply an action group to a RealChute. This is why you'll need ActionGroupsExtended otherwise a level 1 VAB will not allow you to set actiongroups and there is no other way to reconfigure RealChutes.

Here are the steps to set up a RealChute for a save landing from high altitude (works on both RSS and 10xKerbin)

• Add 'Action Groups Extended' to your Blizzy toolbar.
  
• In the VAB click on the 'AGX' button in the toolbar
  
• click on the Real Chute you want to modify
  
• Go to 'Calculations Mode' and set to 'Manual'
  
• For any return vehicle under 1t you can use the predeployment diameter of 6m and deployment diameter of 20m to 25m
  
• Set 'predeployment altitude' to 55000.
  
• 
  

Now, if you want to absolutely optimize the parameter and find the ideal deployment diameter, you can do the following:

• Weigh the craft that will be returning (using Mechjeb for example)
  
• Set 'calculations mode' to automatic.
  
• Set to 'Input craft mass'
  
• Enter the craft mass you found earlier
  
• Click 'Apply Settings'
  
• Right-click on the RealChute part you modified and read the 'deployment diameter' value
  
• Now go back to Manual Calculations mode and that value for the deployment diameter
  
• 
  

The reason for these extra steps are because the automatic calculations always generate a much too small predeployment diameter which will cause you craft to burn up at around 20K or so.

For ultra-realism you should really use a drogue chute at high-altitude, then cut that chute and deploy the real one, but if you can a nose-cone chute and nowhere to put a radial, this is a good compromise.

[chrisl]

Not sure if the part is from RP-0 or another mod but the "Vanguard X-405 Booster" doesn't seem to produce flame/smoke and when you first launch with it, your rocket sort of flies sidesways for a moment.

[Agathorn]

Not sure if the part is from RP-0 or another mod but the "Vanguard X-405 Booster" doesn't seem to produce flame/smoke and when you first launch with it, your rocket sort of flies sidesways for a moment.

Make sure you have installed smoke screen and real plume.

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I don't have CustomBiomes installed. I installed TechManager by hand and then used CKAN to install RP-0 and its dependencies automatically, I also installed all recommended mods. The only non-standard mods I have are Active Texture Management, Science Alert, and Kerbal Engineer (instead of Mechjeb). Should I avoid using CKAN?

You need to install custom biomes, as otherwise you basically have Kerbin biomes on Earth and nothing will line up.

[NathanKell]

chrisl: RP-0 uses RSS to disable all science on Kerbin/Earth. I will need to tweak the cfg to ensure that happens for 10x Kerbin too, but as it stands you've currently gotten about 10x the science you should have.

As I recently explained on the RO thread, the range model RO uses in Remotetech is not limited to the range of your antenna, but to a calculation invovling both your antenna and the antenna of what you're talking to (in the case of KSC, a very *large* antenna).

Up to 200km or so in height, your sounding rockets should be under a ton in mass--probably well under a ton. I think you're making essentially orbital-class rockets and shooting them up, as BevoLJ inquired. :]

(KSP calls them funds, the community calls them roots. It's yet another thing RO/RP-0 changes. We should probably change the icon too at some point, if we can ~hardcoding~ >.> ).

NEAR is simplified FAR. That does not, contrary to the community's

misconception, mean easier. Have you considered just not opening the windows, if the data is not something you want to see?

Chatz: Are you, too, using something other than RSS? Like 10x Kerbol? If not, then something is seriously wrong, since whether you install RSS via CKAN or manually, it *does* come with Custom Biomes. CKAN is fine, please do use it, and shortly even Tech Manager should be working via it.

[chrisl]

Make sure you have installed smoke screen and real plume.

I didn't see either of those listed as requirements but ok. I've got smoke screen now but can't seem to find real plume.

chrisl: RP-0 uses RSS to disable all science on Kerbin/Earth. I will need to tweak the cfg to ensure that happens for 10x Kerbin too, but as it stands you've currently gotten about 10x the science you should have.

As I recently explained on the RO thread, the range model RO uses in Remotetech is not limited to the range of your antenna, but to a calculation invovling both your antenna and the antenna of what you're talking to (in the case of KSC, a very *large* antenna).

Up to 200km or so in height, your sounding rockets should be under a ton in mass--probably well under a ton. I think you're making essentially orbital-class rockets and shooting them up, as BevoLJ inquired. :]

(KSP calls them funds, the community calls them roots. It's yet another thing RO/RP-0 changes. We should probably change the icon too at some point, if we can ~hardcoding~ >.> ).

NEAR is simplified FAR. That does not, contrary to the community's

misconception, mean easier. Have you considered just not opening the windows, if the data is not something you want to see?

Hmm. The only science I had available at the start were the three you originally mentioned in an earlier post: temperature, pressure and probe report. Once I got "Early Orbital Rocketry" (which is where I got the Vanguard X-405 engine & Explorer Probe Core), I picked up mystery goo and the geiger counter (I know the latter is from DMagic). I've only been launching from KSC so between Water, Shore & Grassland biomes (did pick up a couple scans in Tundra though I'm not sure how) and Low Fly, High Fly and Low Space, I've gathered about 140 science so far. Not sure exactly how many flights I've done but my current contract is to get a sounding rocket up to 980km. How much science should I have at this stage?

My original sounding rockets were usually under 1t until I got Early Orbital Rocketry. Then they were usually 2-4t but mostly because I was trying to hit 160km & 250km altitude records and using the procedural SRB which is a bit heavier then the fueled procedural fuel tank + Vanguard X-405. Now I'm up to just shy of 10t which is definitely orbital weight but I'm also trying to hit 980km for my current contract and can't think of a way to do that with a lighter craft. I also can't do a proper orbit yet because I don't have any control of these ships once they leave the atmosphere.

As for FAR, yeah, I'm just not opening the confusing windows to look at the data they provide.

[chrisl]

So are sounding rockets eventually supposed to be put into Orbit? I ask because my current contract is to get a sounding rocket past 980km and I'm really having trouble doing it with the tech I have.

[Chatz]

Chatz: Are you, too, using something other than RSS? Like 10x Kerbol? If not, then something is seriously wrong, since whether you install RSS via CKAN or manually, it *does* come with Custom Biomes. CKAN is fine, please do use it, and shortly even Tech Manager should be working via it.

I install RP-0 from CKAN and did not get Custom Biomes, after selecting it in CKAN it seems to have fixed the biome issues.

[NathanKell]

chrisl: yes, but even so you shouldn't have been getting any science from the ground/ocean anywhere on your home planet. That's an oversight in the patch, it assume regular RSS rather than a different config. That said, on non-RSS you already get 1.5x the biomes (addition of shore biome) so there's that too. If you've gotten 140 science total, that would mean that you should have a bunch of satellite in orbit and either a lunar flyby or impact probe, or a crewed suborbital flight.

As to the broader question...uh, yes, Basic Orbital Rocketry is for, y'know, orbit. While it's possible to not go for orbit then, keep flying sounding rockets until you unlock the next rocketry node, you certainly should be going for orbit then--that's why we disabled science on the surface, so you would need to actually put stuff in the sky to get science. :]

Note that an orbital rocket with the tech from Basic Orbital Rocketry is only ~10 tons and ~1500 funds, it's really not that bad. You *should* be able to launch into a 1000x200km orbit on 10 tons, really...that's one way to get the altitude record. And for control--uh, the X-405 gimbals, as does the AJ10. The AJ10 also has built-in RCS, so you can use it to align for third stage burn before separation and third stage ignition. You will also find spin-stabilization useful (align with the horizon and then ~30s before apogee start spinning, and fire the decoupler and kick stage while spinning, that will keep you aligned with 0 pitch 90 heading due to gyroscopic forces).

You can, however, certainly make even GEO as a sounding rocket shot, just use moar boosters. (say, a tank with 2x X-405s on them, a second stage of 3 Altairs, and a third stage of one).

[chrisl]

I'm not able to get science from the ground/ocean. At least not from landed/splashed. Sure, I can try to but I get 0 for it and it screws up my Science Archives panel until I hack the savegame file and remove all the "sci = 0" entries. I reported that issue a couple days ago and you mentioned you needed to change the science to something like 0.000001 to avoid the divide by 0 problem that is likely causing the glitch I'm seeing. Anyway, since figuring out that glitch, I've not been gathering any science from the ground/ocean. Only from the four (since I keep finding Tundra) nearby biomes while flying at low and high altitude and while in space.

AJ10? I didn't even see that engine. I'm blinde. I'll pay the entry cost for it and give it a try.

[NathanKell]

Ah, ok. I thought you saying you were (i.e. all the KSC biomes). The NaN is fixed in git and will be out soon.

AJ10-early is pretty crappy, but it *does* give you gimbal and RCS and shutoff capability.

[chrisl]

Well that did the trick. Just have to start paying more attention to the various options and start using them more. Paid the entry cost for the AJ10 and X248 then build the equivalent of the Vanguard. Had to time it right because Mechjeb (even with the FAR plugin) didn't want to aim for my orbit altitude correctly. Plus even I kept brushing the edge of the 1km comm range before I wanted to hit the x248, but finally mangaed to put the explorer probe core into a 10Mmx230Km orbit. Can't jettison the spent X248 or the fairings that protected the probe core since I'm outside of comm range, but I finally managed to fill the contract. Thanks Nathan.

[romanasul]

I have a question about the mass of the cryogenic and default tanks. It seems to me like they are lighter than real world parts in terms of empty mass. I'm comparing a Soviet R-7 rocket first stage with one made to similar dimensions in Realism Overhaul. I apologize if i'm making a mistake here I just wanted to know if i'm doing something wrong in the construction or choice of tanks.

[NathanKell]

chrisl: great!

romanasul: You're quite right! The problem is this. Consider Titan I, it had a propellant mass fraction that is unheard of today despite being designed in the 1950s, whereas the Able/Delta stage had incredibly heavy tanks (R-7 too). How do you handle that? Well, if you're me, you add LeadBallast as needed...you can't just say "all early tanks are heavy" because then you cannot replicate early rockets. Now, part of the difference is that the R-7's engines were fairly heavy, and the R-7 tank strength was considerable compared to Titan (built by an aircraft manufacturing company), and that can be reflected by reliability when Testflight is integrated....but for now, feel free to judiciously add leadballast.

Oh, and make sure you don't use one of the Balloon tank types--those are even lighter, because of Atlas/Centaur.

EDIT: v0.21 is out!

This release made possible by a ton of help from Agathorn! Thanks so much!

*Available on CKAN again (all dependencies updated).

*Fix HSF contracts spawning too early.

*Finally, RP-0 will tag parts that it does not yet support, or does not yet fully support. No more cheaty mccheaters! (Or at least cheaters unaware they are cheating.)

*Add support for blackheart's fairings (thanks bax!).

*Fix problems from zeroing surface science. They now have a multiplier of 0.00001 rather than 0.

*Add WIP AIES support (fairings, engines, satellite busses).

*Support FASA LMDE/LMAE too.

*Move remaining RealChute chutes to start node.

[romanasul]

Thank you for making me understand. Sorry but what is leadballast? Is there a way of making the tanks heavier?

[Agathorn]

Thank you for making me understand. Sorry but what is leadballast? Is there a way of making the tanks heavier?

LeadBallast is a "fuel" you can put in the tanks just to make them heavier.

[NathanKell]

romanasul: Yep! Whenever you right-click on a tank and choose 'Show GUI', or are in Action Group Editor mode and click on a tank, the tank GUI will appear. That's how you set up what resources you want the part to contain. One resource all tanktypes can hold is LeadBallast. Just add how many liters of it you want. For my Vanguard I had like at least half a ton in the second stage....

[romanasul]

Ok thanks for letting me know.

[chrisl]

Nathan, what seperation rockets are you using on the first stage of your Vanguard? I ended up not using any because the choices I had were huge. Even the S-II Ulage and Thiokol Baby engines (which only produce 8kN) are huge compared to what I'm looking for. Or did you just create tiny procedural SRBs?

[NathanKell]

The inline seps from Ven's Stock Revamp.

[chrisl]

I know this isn't technically an RP-0 issue, but anyone know what is causing the "Launch a new vessel" contract to constantly turn up? I've completed it 7 times now and basically every time I load up the game, it's available again. It's been useful to keep my funds up, but now it's just getting weird.

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When you're using RemoteTech, does the KSC antenna start with less then a 4km range? I ask because I have the Communotron 16 mounted on a rocket but I keep losing comms at just about 1.5Mm (174km altitude).

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One more thing I wanted to note. In the OP there's a suggestion: "When starting the game, the balance should be similar to KSP's normal career, so we recommend "Moderate" or "Hard" settings, though you might want to keep science progression at a higher value than Hard's default.". I have to say, science hasn't been an issue for me (at least not once I realized the sounding probe could take readings). I'm playing on "Hard" but with science progression turned up to 80% and I've got more science then I can actually make use of right now. Admittedly, I'm using DMagic (a suggested mod for RO) but even without the Geiger Counter, I'm pretty confidant that I'd have plenty of science available. The issue I keep running into is not having enough funds to pay the part Entry Cost. Have to say if I start this game over, I'd probably increase funds to 80% and leave science progression at default.

[NathanKell]

It totally is an RP-0 issue. I just don't know why it exists. Unless you've seen it without RP-0 installed.

The KSC antenna has a 75Mm range--are you sure it's range and not going over the horizon? (Well, check RemoteTech_Settings.cfg to see what the actual range is).

Yeah, the issue with science balancing is that three new instruments will *double* your science intake early on.

[romanasul]

Does anybody here know how to get the orbit manipulator mod to work with the newest KSP? I have it installed and can see the toggles in Toolbar but I can't use the engine thrusting feature.

[ClLaw]

One more thing I wanted to note. In the OP there's a suggestion: "When starting the game, the balance should be similar to KSP's normal career, so we recommend "Moderate" or "Hard" settings, though you might want to keep science progression at a higher value than Hard's default.". I have to say, science hasn't been an issue for me (at least not once I realized the sounding probe could take readings). I'm playing on "Hard" but with science progression turned up to 80% and I've got more science then I can actually make use of right now. Admittedly, I'm using DMagic (a suggested mod for RO) but even without the Geiger Counter, I'm pretty confidant that I'd have plenty of science available. The issue I keep running into is not having enough funds to pay the part Entry Cost. Have to say if I start this game over, I'd probably increase funds to 80% and leave science progression at default.

I've recently restarted my RO career but this time I installed Kerbal Construction Time which uses your science or funds to decrease the time it takes to construct craft or research new tech nodes(assuming you're not using KCT and not sure what it is). Maybe worth a try?

[chrisl]

It totally is an RP-0 issue. I just don't know why it exists. Unless you've seen it without RP-0 installed.

No, I've not seen it before but wasn't sure if it was specific to RP-0. I'll just force myself to ignore it from now on.

The KSC antenna has a 75Mm range--are you sure it's range and not going over the horizon? (Well, check RemoteTech_Settings.cfg to see what the actual range is).

It's possible. I was working on sounding rocket altitude records so was aiming for an initial apoapsis of around 150km. It looked like I still have LOS to KSC but it's possible I'm just passing over the horizon at that altitude and don't realize it.

Yeah, the issue with science balancing is that three new instruments will *double* your science intake early on.

I've recently restarted my RO career but this time I installed Kerbal Construction Time which uses your science or funds to decrease the time it takes to construct craft or research new tech nodes(assuming you're not using KCT and not sure what it is). Maybe worth a try?

I actually thought I had KCT. I thought it came bundled with RP-0. Maybe I just don't have the full version of it. I'll download the full mod and see if it makes any difference. Though at this point I'm still leaning towards reduced science and increase funds. Admitedly, some of the components I can buy are from the FASA mod, but it still feels like I've got tons of science and no funds to make use of that science.