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[1.2.2] Realistic Progression Zero (RP-0) - Lightweight RealismOverhaul career v0.53 June 12

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On 06/10/2016 at 10:29 PM, Luciano said:

Hello everyone, I have a bit of a problem, when using the F1 engine my rocket start spining a lot, really a lot, and also it doesn't have a configuration for it to fail (don't recall the mod that adds that). Can someone confirm that it doesn't have that configuration. Algo anyone had the same problem with the F1??

Thanks a lot to all of you

Well since no flown F1 ever had a failure (that I can find) what would you set the TestFlight values to?

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I'm trying to build a shroud around my cockpit (because they keep exploding as I go too quickly) but none of the fuel tanks are large enough to fit under the shroud base.

Is it normal that the procedural fuel tank won't grow any bigger than 2m?  Is this something I can upgrade in the tech tree over time?  Or is it a bug?

KSP_proceedural.png

Edited by PTNLemay

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1 hour ago, PTNLemay said:

I'm trying to build a shroud around my cockpit (because they keep exploding as I go too quickly) but none of the fuel tanks are large enough to fit under the shroud base.

Is it normal that the procedural fuel tank won't grow any bigger than 2m?  Is this something I can upgrade in the tech tree over time?  Or is it a bug?

You need to unlock higher levels of Construction in the science tech tree.  That's what limits your part sizes.

Edited by MatBailie

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Thanks for the quick reply Mat!

Here's another one that's really stumping me.  I remember I ran into it a while back, when I was trying to do another career run earlier in the year, but I never figured out how I solved it.  One day it just started working.  The problem is that my RCS won't do anything. I have an electric charge, the A-4 guidance unit, I have RCS turned on.  I've tried different fuel tanks to hold it in. I've tried HTP, Nitrous Oxide, MON20.  I don't have access to Hydrazine, but I think that that's because I haven't reached the needed tech level.  

I have RCS nozzles though, so there must be some fuel that I can use on them.  Am I missing something evident, or is it a bug?  I'm tapping WASD but there's no puffs nor is the fuel level going down.

EDIT:
It was pressure!  The tank wasn't pressurized.  Flicked that switch, now the little sucker's puffing.

RCS_Bugs.png

Edited by PTNLemay

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12 hours ago, Aelfhe1m said:

Well since no flown F1 ever had a failure (that I can find) what would you set the TestFlight values to?

I was just asking if it was ok that my F1 don't have any value for testflight. If this is the case then everything is allrigth except for the uncontrolable rotation.

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18 hours ago, Luciano said:

Stock F1. 

Oh, it's strange because i don't have this problem with the same F-1. A bad installation of RO maybe ?

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On 6. 10. 2016 at 11:29 PM, Luciano said:

Hello everyone, I have a bit of a problem, when using the F1 engine my rocket start spining a lot, really a lot, and also it doesn't have a configuration for it to fail (don't recall the mod that adds that). Can someone confirm that it doesn't have that configuration. Algo anyone had the same problem with the F1??

Thanks a lot to all of you

If I used a single F1 on my rocket, it also started to spin increasingly as it flew.

Clustered setups eliminate that problem, either by balancing out the inconsistency or just correcting it with gimbal.

If you want a single F1, a pair of LR-101s can keep the roll in check.

The Test Flight data really isn't there. I would welcome it. Surely the F1 has a rated burn time? A reasonable failure rate can be probably guessed too.

Edited by MarvinCZ

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10 hours ago, MarvinCZ said:

If I used a single F1 on my rocket, it also started to spin increasingly as it flew.

Clustered setups eliminate that problem, either by balancing out the inconsistency or just correcting it with gimbal.

If you want a single F1, a pair of LR-101s can keep the roll in check.

The Test Flight data really isn't there. I would welcome it. Surely the F1 has a rated burn time? A reasonable failure rate can be probably guessed too.

Thank you! I tried a pair of lr 101, but the peoblem continued. I never tried a cluster of F1. A single one is enougth for my lounch vehicle. As for the test fligth data i will look for info and then post it here? O where? In the tread of test flight?

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On 11. 10. 2016 at 0:59 AM, Luciano said:

Thank you! I tried a pair of lr 101, but the peoblem continued. I never tried a cluster of F1. A single one is enougth for my lounch vehicle. As for the test fligth data i will look for info and then post it here? O where? In the tread of test flight?

How did you place the LR-101s? They should be on the side of your fuel tank to have as much roll input as possible.

Like on the Atlas, where the engine comes from: http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/yj4f06d4f1.jpg

Also - sorry if this is obvious - this won't remove the natural tendency to roll. It will just give you a way to correct it in flight. You will need to either have SAS turned on or apply roll corrections manually.

The Test flight data is for rp-0, it uses its own engine configs.

Edited by MarvinCZ

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So after a short hiatus, I decided to start a new game.  1.1.3 (started like a week before 1.2 was introduced) clean install with RSS/RO/RP-0, all their required and suggested mods, plus a couple parts mods (FASA, SSTU, some raidernick mods, etc).  Game started off just fine with launching sounding rockets higher and higher.  Then got the contract to put my first satellite into orbit.  After a bunch of test launches, I finally succeeded.  But now my available contracts have bloated.  Keeping in mind that I barely managed to put a satellite into orbit and have just the most basic of guidance control right now, my current list of available contracts includes Lunar Flyby (Uncrewed), Lunar Impactor (Uncrewed), Lunar Orbit (Uncrewed), Successful Reentry, Position Satellite into Molniya Orbit of Mars, two "position satellite in polar/specific orbit of Earth", and two "position satellite in specific orbit of Moon".

Shouldn't we get the "Lunar Orbit (Uncrewed)" contract after we've successfully completed the Lunar Flyby and/or Lunar Impactor?

Shouldn't "Successful Reentry" contracts only become available after we've learned the "Survivability" tech node since before then we don't have heat shields?

Shouldn't all these "position satellite into specific orbit of Earth" contracts be waiting until we have "Stability/Early Probes" since that looks like the first tech node where you can build controllable upper stages?  Or at the very least, shouldn't the orbit specifications be limited just to min/max inclinations?

Shouldn't "position satellite into specific orbit of Moon" contracts be waiting until after we completing "Lunar Orbit (Uncrewed)"?

Shouldn't "position satellite into specific (or any) orbit of Mars" (or any other planet) be waiting until we have a contract to first leave Earth's SOI?

And shouldn't we get a couple contracts just to put up satellites, without specific orbits (except maybe inclination) while we are researching things like "Stability/Early Probes" and "Survivability"?  It really seems like there is a large gap here.  With the upgrade points I've spent so far (Kerbal Construction Time) I'm looking at around 560 days of research to get those two tech nodes (and their requirements) assuming I focus strictly on those.  Closer to 1000 days if I also research important nodes like Basic Construction and Basic Orbital Rocketry.  I don't have an issue with the research time.  My problem is, funds are extremely limited at this point in the game so launching rockets without contracts really isn't feasible, but there really aren't any contracts I can continue to use other than just sending up more sounding rockets.  Just feels like you spend a fair bit of time on sounding rockets, then get teased with your first satellite, then have to go back to sounding rockets instead of having the option to do both.

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@chrisl: I also recently started a new RP-0 campaign on 1.1.3, and have had similar thoughts as well. After some investigation, this is what I came up with:

The "Position satellite in a specific/(geo|helio)synchronous/(geo|helio)stationary/polar/molniya/kolniya/tundra orbit of <object>" contracts are stock contracts, with only minor modifications for RP-0. The logic for what orbit around which body to offer is from stock, and as such isn't very well balanced for RP-0, but there isn't much that can be done about that (except getting rid of them entirely).  There is a series of simpler (weather) satellite contracts starting with "Atmospheric Analysis" that should show up in parallel to the stock contracts. If it doesn't show up immediately, try dismissing some trivial (one star) contracts until it does.

The re-entry contract already require you to have the prerequisites for Survivability (so you can start researching it as soon as you get the contract). Personally I think that is enough, but I can understand how others could disagree.

I fully agree that the Lunar orbit contract should depend on the Lunar flyby contract. It is enough to be able to get Lunar flyby and Lunar impactor simultaneously.

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@Jonno  Odd about the re-entry contract because I am still 251 days away from having Survivability.  I'd think the contract shouldn't become available until you actually have the tech node available.

I do have the "Atmospheric Analysis" contract.  Just haven't tried it because it's orbit requirements seem a bit stricter than I can do at this point.  Ap +2200km, Pe between 549km and 599km.  My first satellite barely made it to 155km x 502km orbit so trying for a 549km x 2200km orbit seems like a big jump.  At least when all you really have is Early Orbital Rocketry.  Once I finish researching Basic Orbital Rocketry, Basic Solids, Basic Construction and Basic Avionics, that orbit won't be so out of reach but just seems like we need a satellite contract to help "pay the bills" while we finish all that research.

As for the stock contracts, it's too bad there isn't at least a way to restrict the target body to only those we've actually been to.  I may not be able to complete the "position satellite into specific orbit of Earth" contracts just yet because the requirements require more avionics control than I have at this point, but at least they are in reach.

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43 minutes ago, chrisl said:

@Jonno  Odd about the re-entry contract because I am still 251 days away from having Survivability.  I'd think the contract shouldn't become available until you actually have the tech node available.

You can complete those contracts by building a vessel that fires retrograde on re-entry, to slow down enough that a heat shield isn't required.  It's even possible to build such a vessel with an aircraft cockpit and complete the manned missions.  Whether or not that was a sensible move on my part, I did enjoy the challenge :)

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52 minutes ago, chrisl said:

@Jonno  Odd about the re-entry contract because I am still 251 days away from having Survivability.  I'd think the contract shouldn't become available until you actually have the tech node available.

I do have the "Atmospheric Analysis" contract.  Just haven't tried it because it's orbit requirements seem a bit stricter than I can do at this point.  Ap +2200km, Pe between 549km and 599km.  My first satellite barely made it to 155km x 502km orbit so trying for a 549km x 2200km orbit seems like a big jump.  At least when all you really have is Early Orbital Rocketry.

Funny. My first satellite ended up in a ~200kmx2.5Mm orbit, and that's without as big of a kick stage as I was originally planning on using.

That said, I still tend to avoid those contracts until I have BOR, because it feels hit-or-miss with TestFlight whether the AJ-10 or the solids will actually do what I want them to.

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Just came across another surprise.  It's been so long since I'd started a new game, I completely forgot that you can't target anything with the level 1 tracking station.  So doing the Lunar Flyby and Lunar Impactor contracts is basically not possible.  I'm likely going to start over again since I'm such a short way into this game but it got me thinking.  The tracking station costs 150k to upgrade but I'd question whether I'd earned much more than 150k since I started my game.  And most of that went towards entry costs (though I know I spent about 50k on KCT upgrades).  Since you basically don't get to do much beyond sounding rockets (or planes which I can't do so I don't do those contracts but also don't pay entry cost for those parts) in the early game, maybe the sounding rocket contracts should reward a bit more than they do. 

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@MatBailie: Yea, it is possible, just like it is possible to hit the Moon with a sounding rocket, but that is not the intended/recommended way to play the game, as evidenced by the "have the pre-requisites of Survivability" prerequisite.

@chrisl: The point is that once you have the pre-requisites of Survivability getting there is within reach, if you prioritize doing so. As I haven't it has cluttered my control centre list for about 2 years in-game, but I don't begrudge it that, because I know if I had focused on that instead of the lunar contracts (that has been available even longer), I could have done it long ago.

I did remember the tracking station requirement, and I managed to upgrade the tracking station, the mission control centre and the launch pad, as well as reaching 41 KCT upgrade points, all without going to the moon (or doing planes, or crewed rockets), though I've completed 6 contracts in the weather satellite series. Sure, I have sent up about a dozen pure sounding rockets since I reached orbit, but that was mostly my own fault (I spent everything I had on KCT upgrade points to research faster, only having to spend time milking sounding rocket contracts to be able to afford the part unlock cost to actually use what I researched).

Increasing the reward for sounding rocket contracts is not the answer, as it is it is already possible to milk over £3000 (one medium and one high contract) by spending less than £300 on launching a sounding rocket, but doing so quickly becomes tedious. If anything the weather satellite contracts should pay more, so you don't have to do so many sounding rockets. Or even better: add more early satellite contracts...

Edited by Jonno

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@Jonno For the Re-entry contracts, I just think you shouldn't get them until after you've completed research on Survivability.  If you don't have that tech node, you shouldn't get the contracts.  Though looking at the contract, I see that you start getting the contract once you have the ability to research Survivability, so I guess it's supposed to be an enticement to finish that research.  I guess looking at it that way, it makes sense.

Before starting over, I have 38KCT upgrade points.  I'd guess about half of those had been put into R&D.  I'd also launched about a dozen sounding rockets but only two "satellite" rockets.  I suppose my main issue was that I couldn't launch a £300 sounding rocket that could succeed a "High" contract.  My sounding rockets (built using RN_US_Rockets: Aerobee) cost more line £900 and if I made it to 800km, I felt lucky.  Only rockets I could launch that could complete the "High" contracts was my Juno I/II (from FASA and RN_US_Rockets) and that cost closer to £2000 per launch.  I must be wasting funds somewhere.  I'll have to pay more attention to exactly what I'm spending this run through.

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Curious, are SpaceX's engines included or planned on being included in RP-0? Figure once you can build rockets like SpaceX's indevelopment ITS rocket with that Raptor engine, the possibilities for manned solar system exploration in RSS would be amazing. Also curious if the experimental fuel free EmDrive will make an appearance...

Apologies if this has been discussed before.

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1 hour ago, EliasDanger said:

Curious, are SpaceX's engines included or planned on being included in RP-0? Figure once you can build rockets like SpaceX's indevelopment ITS rocket with that Raptor engine, the possibilities for manned solar system exploration in RSS would be amazing. Also curious if the experimental fuel free EmDrive will make an appearance...

Apologies if this has been discussed before.

The Merlin's already included. About the Raptor, there's a preliminary general MM patch for it in RO, but no part packs that provide it. So for it to make an appearance in RP-0 it needs some parts pack to make it and then for someone to make an MM patch for it in RO and finally someone needs to guess the cost and place it in the tech tree in RP-0. Of course, some of these feats are quite difficult as it hasn't actually been made yet.

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Kartoffelkuchen had a Raptor over here about three weeks ago now, not sure about its current release status however >

 

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@chrisl: Oh, my sounding rocket high capable rocket cost about £1900, I just got almost £1700 back once I parachute recovered the first stage...

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23 minutes ago, Jonno said:

@chrisl: Oh, my sounding rocket high capable rocket cost about £1900, I just got almost £1700 back once I parachute recovered the first stage...

Out of curiosity, are you using a parts pack for your high capable sounding rocket?  What engine are you using?  I've been limited to the small WAC-Corporal until just recently when I get the AJ11 (from RN_US_Rockets) but my three stage Aerobee 300 can only get just above 400km.  I'm looking at something using the A-6, A-7 or X405 (will 2nd stage AJ10) but those are basically my only engines right now.

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1 hour ago, chrisl said:

Out of curiosity, are you using a parts pack for your high capable sounding rocket?  What engine are you using?  I've been limited to the small WAC-Corporal until just recently when I get the AJ11 (from RN_US_Rockets) but my three stage Aerobee 300 can only get just above 400km.  I'm looking at something using the A-6, A-7 or X405 (will 2nd stage AJ10) but those are basically my only engines right now.

NathanKell showed something like that in his tutorial (youtube->"RP0 tutorial") and you can get high sounding for less than $1500. 3 sergeants + 11-12 sergeants + AJ10 + RD103 with some spin/ullage solids added and it gets me easily to 7500-7700km (most of the time due to failures) even with some offset to make sure stages drops into Atlantic (I basically end up climbing at about 60deg when spin stabilises it fully) .

If you have RN-US probes (or something like that) - you can use explorer probe - it's light and aerodynamic. Just recreate Explorer-Juno. I've been able to put it on 160/8000km orbit and whole rocket (including avionics) cost below $1200. If you can strip avionics and spin stabilise it you should get 8000km+ with rocket that cost around $1000

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2 hours ago, przybysz86 said:

NathanKell showed something like that in his tutorial (youtube->"RP0 tutorial") and you can get high sounding for less than $1500. 3 sergeants + 11-12 sergeants + AJ10 + RD103 with some spin/ullage solids added and it gets me easily to 7500-7700km (most of the time due to failures) even with some offset to make sure stages drops into Atlantic (I basically end up climbing at about 60deg when spin stabilises it fully) .

If you have RN-US probes (or something like that) - you can use explorer probe - it's light and aerodynamic. Just recreate Explorer-Juno. I've been able to put it on 160/8000km orbit and whole rocket (including avionics) cost below $1200. If you can strip avionics and spin stabilise it you should get 8000km+ with rocket that cost around $1000

Nothing to contribute here but you guys are the coolest nerds ever and you're making it so hard to wait for RO et al to stabilize for 1.2 :D

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4 hours ago, troyfawkes said:

Nothing to contribute here but you guys are the coolest nerds ever and you're making it so hard to wait for RO et al to stabilize for 1.2 :D

That's why knowing 1.2 is inbound I made a copy of my 1.1.3 before steam decided to update it for me. :wink:


EDIT:
@chrisl
The cheapest 5000km class sounding rocket that use only early technology I can make cost me just below $1150 which means that medium sounding rocket contract will pay you for your launch (and when I checked actually make $650 profit) and high contract would be all profit:
 

Spoiler

lzxHmIk.png

I used Sergeants(15x), Vanguard (1x), Aerobee in Aj10-27 config (4x) and small solid kick motors (2x). All is using only sounding rocket avionics, is spin stabilised and offset by 1.5deg toward east to prevent falling back on cape.

I've not cheated with 100% utilisation. It have 100% domes on both ends but core is at 90%. Boosters are standard - 86% if memory serves.
Test I've made shows that if all goes right (no failure) it will reach just above 5000km.
Price as you can see is above $1150 but you always recover clamps so it will go below that.

I'm sure some "rocket design magicians" here can do much better. That one was just a quick design to make sure I've not lied to you because say prices changed since I've last checked.

Of course the main idea of sounding rocket contracts is to use them to test launch system but if you want to make them just for profit and only have basic nodes then feel free to build something like mine design.

Edited by przybysz86

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