[1.2.1] Outer Planets Mod (2.1) - Active development has moved, see first post for new thread

[Spacepetscompany]

Any further plans after Pock BTW? Maybe a Tyche analog?

In any case, what do you plan to do once you finish with Neidon and Plocks moons (After Urlum of course)?

Edited March 18, 2015 by Spacepetscompany

[Whirligig Girl]

I found that when you make Urlum's rotation 0, it works fine. THe moons work, the roation doesn't go around and reset, it's all good. And it can still go backwards, because EnvironmentalVisualEnhancements works fine with reverse rotations!

[_Augustus_]

Any further plans after Pock BTW? Maybe a Tyche analog?

In any case, what do you plan to do once you finish with Neidon and Plocks moons (After Urlum of course)?

A Tyche analog would be really fun.

[CaptRobau]

Could you give me a detailed rundown of the problems that you seem to have tracked down to the reverse rotation. Want to test it for myself and I need to know what exactly to look out for.

[Whirligig Girl]

Hey wait a minute, how can Slate have ever been like Kerbin if it's orbiting cold, distant Sarnus? That doesn't make any sense. And besides, I think that piece of lore is a bit too detailed anyway. I think we should be able to draw our on conclusions as to planetary histories from what they look like and their science reports.

But yeah, no. Slate was never like Kerbin.

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Oh, and also, a Tyche analog would be really really cool. It should enter the inner solar system at a predefined date so you have only a tiny chance to get to it. And make it go in below Neidon, but on the other side of the solar system at the time.

A Brown Dwarf might be a tad bit out of the scope of the mod though. Maybe as an official expansion pack to OPM.

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It was postponed at the last moment. I doubt we'll need to wait months. Eudae55 however is quite busy at the moment, so that makes small changes take longer than before.

What is the fourth moon like?

Also, there might be a problem with the Tritonalike if you want to add an atmosphere. Atmospheres don't work very well visually much smaller than Duna, which is why Eeloo didn't have an atmosphere. It was supposed to, but it wouldn't work without a rewrite of the atmosphere shader which was not part of the scope of the little 0.18.2 Christmas update. I believe, hwoever, if you have E.V.E. producing a haze layer with no fade distance, it works on the surface. (Source: Early versions of E.V.E. with glowing Mun becoming an "atmosphere" on Mun)

Edited March 19, 2015 by GregroxMun

[Svm420]

I found that when you make Urlum's rotation 0, it works fine. THe moons work, the roation doesn't go around and reset, it's all good. And it can still go backwards, because EnvironmentalVisualEnhancements works fine with reverse rotations!

So what exactly did you change to on Urlum?

[Whirligig Girl]

Could you give me a detailed rundown of the problems that you seem to have tracked down to the reverse rotation. Want to test it for myself and I need to know what exactly to look out for.

Every time Urlum rotates it then skips back to default rotation and again. Then you have issues where timewarping causes your on-rails velocity to be different than with physics. I'm sure you will see the problems if you bring a lander out there and play around for a while. But like I said, setting rotation to 0 fixes this, and with E.V.E. allows the planet to seem to rotate backwards.

[CaptRobau]

Hey wait a minute, how can Slate have ever been like Kerbin if it's orbiting cold, distant Sarnus? That doesn't make any sense. And besides, I think that piece of lore is a bit too detailed anyway. I think we should be able to draw our on conclusions as to planetary histories from what they look like and their science reports.

But yeah, no. Slate was never like Kerbin.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, and also, a Tyche analog would be really really cool. It should enter the inner solar system at a predefined date so you have only a tiny chance to get to it. And make it go in below Neidon, but on the other side of the solar system at the time.

A Brown Dwarf might be a tad bit out of the scope of the mod though. Maybe as an official expansion pack to OPM.

- - - Updated - - -

What is the fourth moon like?

Also, there might be a problem with the Tritonalike if you want to add an atmosphere. Atmospheres don't work very well visually much smaller than Duna, which is why Eeloo didn't have an atmosphere. It was supposed to, but it wouldn't work without a rewrite of the atmosphere shader which was not part of the scope of the little 0.18.2 Christmas update. I believe, hwoever, if you have E.V.E. producing a haze layer with no fade distance, it works on the surface. (Source: Early versions of E.V.E. with glowing Mun becoming an "atmosphere" on Mun)

Slate was like Kerbin in the same way as Titan is one of the most similar bodies to Earth. Atmosphere and liquid water, but the first was stripped away through some unknown cataclysm and the second evaporated due to a lack of the former.

You'll see what the fourth moon is like in the future.

The Triton analog is slightly smaller than Duna to make the atmosphere work well. In KSPs moons are often the size of planets, so that's not that unusual.

Every time Urlum rotates it then skips back to default rotation and again. Then you have issues where timewarping causes your on-rails velocity to be different than with physics. I'm sure you will see the problems if you bring a lander out there and play around for a while. But like I said, setting rotation to 0 fixes this, and with E.V.E. allows the planet to seem to rotate backwards.

If it turns out that a non-negative rotation fixes stuff, then it'll just have a positive rotation not zero as that would look weird without EVE's backward rotation fix. The backward rotation was added to make the planet more interesting when it was moonless, but now with the moons it's more than interesting enough.

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

FYI, delta-V map updated. There are a couple of values missing but I'll have to call it a day and come back tomorrow because... well, because life.

[Jodo42]

A Tyche analog would be essentially impossible for a couple reasons:

-Tyche doesn't exist

-Even if it did exist, its orbit was predicted to be 500 times that of Neptune's orbit

There's no way you could get anything resembling a realistic orbit for that kind of object in KSP. That's well beyond Sedna (over 160 times farther), and even Sedna's been ruled out as having too unfeasible an orbit in a previous discussion on this thread.

A non rotating Urlum would be silly. There's no planets like that that we know of. The probability circumstances to eliminate a planet's angular momentum completely are essentially 0.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Jodo42

[hazard-ish]

I think we're close enough to Neidon's moons to say that one of them will indeed be the one to have an atmosphere, not the remaining moon of Urlum. This Neidon moon will have a thin atmosphere and will be based mostly on Triton. Aerodynamic flight will be possible, but it won't be easy (which is the challenge of course).

It was postponed at the last moment. I doubt we'll need to wait months. Eudae55 however is quite busy at the moment, so that makes small changes take longer than before.

Aww, it's a shame that my favorite gs giant will be the only one without an atmospheric moon. However, it is great to know that such plans are still likely to be implemented for Neidon's system. I would be literally and figuratively 'over the moon' if it was oxygenated or had about 0.5g on the surface but that's just me

Good to hear that the wait for Urlum's last moon will not be too long, I hope that whatever Eudae55 is doing in the mean time goes well

[CaptRobau]

You can always edit the configs to put the atmospheric moon around Urlum It's not hard.

Going to burst your bubble already but those two things are in all likelihood not going to happen. Triton is an icy moon, not an oceanic one aka no photosynthesis. Without photosynthesis you can't have a atmosphere with oxygen a la Kerbin or Laythe. A 0.5g moon is also far too high for something that's the size of Duna, which has 0.3g. It'd be unrealistically heavy.

[_Augustus_]

You can always edit the configs to put the atmospheric moon around Urlum It's not hard.

Going to burst your bubble already but those two things are in all likelihood not going to happen. Triton is an icy moon, not an oceanic one aka no photosynthesis. Without photosynthesis you can't have a atmosphere with oxygen a la Kerbin or Laythe. A 0.5g moon is also far too high for something that's the size of Duna, which has 0.3g. It'd be unrealistically heavy.

Isn't KSP already filled with unrealistically heavy planets? 0.5g would make sense if it was made out of denser materials than Duna.

[CaptRobau]

To get a gravity of 0.5g with a size a little bit under Duna's it'd need a density around 60000, which would make it more dense than Kerbin and the second densest body after Eve. That's way to dense for something based on Triton, inconsistent with other bodies and way too unrealistic. So 0.5g is not going to happen.

[Commissioner Tadpole]

I'm interested in downloading this mod, but my computer's already too fragile - I'm dependent on ActiveTextureManager to keep it at playable framerates - thus this would make it lag beyond oblivion...

[hazard-ish]

You can always edit the configs to put the atmospheric moon around Urlum It's not hard.

Going to burst your bubble already but those two things are in all likelihood not going to happen. Triton is an icy moon, not an oceanic one aka no photosynthesis. Without photosynthesis you can't have a atmosphere with oxygen a la Kerbin or Laythe. A 0.5g moon is also far too high for something that's the size of Duna, which has 0.3g. It'd be unrealistically heavy.

To get a gravity of 0.5g with a size a little bit under Duna's it'd need a density around 60000, which would make it more dense than Kerbin and the second densest body after Eve. That's way to dense for something based on Triton, inconsistent with other bodies and way too unrealistic. So 0.5g is not going to happen.

Don't worry, I wasn't suggesting that should happen as such, or even hoping that it would in this mod, it's just what would be my ideal situation if realism wasn't a concern . Also, I wasn't suggesting that the Triton analogue which you have said will be slightly smaller than Duna to have 0.5g, I was just saying that something around that level of gravity would be interesting as the surface gravity of celestial bodies in order of sizr (even including OPM) goes from Wal with 0.37g (I think?) to Laythe/Tylo with 0.85g so it would be nice to have some middle-ground.

I hope that has cleared things up and I have to say, I am still very much looking forward to seeing what is in store for Neidon in the future .

[Elowiny]

What's your secret to avoid the "texture bug" ? You know, this bug that turns your planet into stock planets...

And also, how do you avoid the "Scaled space fading" bug ?

[hazard-ish]

Also, you said the Triton analogue for Neidon will have a thin atmosphere (just enough for flight) but, just out of interest, how thin are we talking? I don't know how thin the atmosphere can get whilst sustaining flight, especially since it depends on the gravity that will likely be less than Dunas, but can we expect something like 70% the thickness of Duna? If this hasn't been decided yet, then forgive me for intruding too far - I'll let you get to finishing up the Urlum system first!

[CaptRobau]

What's your secret to avoid the "texture bug" ? You know, this bug that turns your planet into stock planets...

And also, how do you avoid the "Scaled space fading" bug ?

Don't know about the texture bug. And ScaledSpace fading is easily fixed be exporting the ScaledSpace and including the .bin it creates into your mod and using the exported terrain texture (which combines your height map with the various terrain detail increase PQSMods) to make your normal map. That way you have a perfect transition.

Also, you said the Triton analogue for Neidon will have a thin atmosphere (just enough for flight) but, just out of interest, how thin are we talking? I don't know how thin the atmosphere can get whilst sustaining flight, especially since it depends on the gravity that will likely be less than Dunas, but can we expect something like 70% the thickness of Duna? If this hasn't been decided yet, then forgive me for intruding too far - I'll let you get to finishing up the Urlum system first!

I did tests a long, long time ago and I remember 1/4 the Dunan atmosphere worked. But whether that's still through for the current size, concept I don't know. I'll just have to try it out once I get to it.

[Elowiny]

The texture bug is when you come close to the planet and POOF it turns into it's template.

Also, do you use http://cpetry.github.io/NormalMap-Online/ for normal maps ?

How to export the scaled space ? Do I use "scaled space updater" ? And where do it put the exported textures ?

[CaptRobau]

I've never had that bug reliably, so if I fixed it somehow I don't know how. I know that site, but I personally use Photoshop's normal map generator.

ScaledSpace update with Export checked. Then you get a normal, height and color map somewhere in KittopiaSpace/Textures/... (don't know the exact path). The color and normal map can be discarded. Use the height map to generate the normal map from through Photoshop, that site or some other means. This will give you a normal map with more detail. Throw that Kittopia generated height map away too and put the normal map you just created with all your other textures (in my case OPM/KopernicusConfigs/SarnusMoons/Textures for example).

[Sigma88]

I've never had that bug reliably, so if I fixed it somehow I don't know how. I know that site, but I personally use Photoshop's normal map generator.

ScaledSpace update with Export checked. Then you get a normal, height and color map somewhere in KittopiaSpace/Textures/... (don't know the exact path). The color and normal map can be discarded. Use the height map to generate the normal map from through Photoshop, that site or some other means. This will give you a normal map with more detail. Throw that Kittopia generated height map away too and put the normal map you just created with all your other textures (in my case OPM/KopernicusConfigs/SarnusMoons/Textures for example).

So I shouldnt use the normal map generated by kittopia? Interesting

[CaptRobau]

No, that's just a quickly auto-generated thing for demonstration purposes.

[Sigma88]

No, that's just a quickly auto-generated thing for demonstration purposes.

Ok thanks,

There was a tutorial that said to use that one, I'll try to make one frombthe kittopia heightmap then

[Whirligig Girl]

A non rotating Urlum would be silly. There's no planets like that that we know of. The probability circumstances to eliminate a planet's angular momentum completely are essentially 0.

The idea is that it IS rotating backwards, but only with E.V.E. installed. Or maybe it could have a very small prograde rotation. Point is, it can't have a retrograde rotation in-game, because then bugginess happens.