Engines will not fire...

[LordFerret]

I've built a ship up in orbit, docking sections together. I can move the ship using RCS thrusters, but I cannot get the engines to fire. I'm stumped. I've checked all the Clamp-o-tron Sr.s, and none of them have crossfeed disabled. All the fuel tanks are full. The solar panels are not shown in the image below, but they're there (retracted)... and there's plenty of battery power onboard. There are 3 Kerbals onboard also. The engines are LV-T30's, 4 of them attached to a TVR-400L Stack Quad adapter... I've right-clicked each engine and 'activated' them. I still can't get them to fire. The staging indicator shows they have no fuel... yes, it's docking mode in the image, from testing the thrusters... still doesn't fire from staging mode. When I try to fire, or right-click deactive/reactivate, all the engines do is 'hiss'... and it's indicated there's no fuel flow. What's going on here? This thing should fly - no?

Edited December 22, 2014 by LordFerret
Answered as best as it's going to get. Thanks all.

[Anquietas314]

I'm not certain, but I think those kerbodyne structural adaptors you have there don't allow (automatic) fuel cross-feed. That would most likely be your problem. If that's the case, one solution to this would be to swap the engine component for one that has its own (small) tank, and then use resource transfer (which does work with those adaptors) to feed it.

Edited December 22, 2014 by armagheddonsgw

[LordFerret]

Humm... I'll look in the Wiki, the parts list in-game doesn't declare anything.

*edit* - Wiki doesn't say anything about cross-feed. :/

Edited December 22, 2014 by LordFerret

[Anquietas314]

Humm... I'll look in the Wiki, the parts list in-game doesn't declare anything.

http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Kerbodyne_ADTP-2-3 it doesn't really tell you any more than the tooltip ingame

Give me a minute or two to get the game loaded up and I'll test it.

[LordFerret]

Ok, I just threw something together out on the launchpad... those adapters allow cross-feed... engines fired.

[Anquietas314]

Ok, I just threw something together out on the launchpad... those adapters allow cross-feed... engines fired.

In that case, mind posting your save file so I can get a good look at the thing?

[LordFerret]

I'll try. Let me see if I can find it. lol

[Anquietas314]

I'll try. Let me see if I can find it. lol

it should be under <KSP>\saves\<career name>\; it's the "persistence.sfs" file.

[LordFerret]

It appears I have no way to do that... don't have Dropbox or whatever. Cut/paste... well... that was a disaster. lol

[Anquietas314]

You could try using this: http://expirebox.com/ (found via a very quick google search) Otherwise maybe a better screenshot of the engine section up close?

[LordFerret]

I'm downloading and installing DropBox... slow connection. :/

I'll post it here when it finishes.

[Anquietas314]

Not a problem. I'm still waiting for KSP to actually load too - I had to install active texture management because stock was using far too much memory

[LordFerret]

Ok, here's the link to the persistent file...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jk4t5k5oqq0f5q3/persistent.sfs?dl=0

The mods I have installed are Lazor (docking cam) and SCANsat. That's it.

One thing I'm pondering (as a reason why?)... the way I launched and docked the sections. The engine section for example, was atop the launcher... when I met up with the tank section, I undocked it and then hooked the other ship (tanks) to it... but that made it 'debris' when I undocked it (no command module on it). I just noticed that in the persistent file, parts still hold labels of 'debris'. Does that have anything to do with it???

*edit* The ship(s) are 'Voyager'.

Edited December 22, 2014 by LordFerret

[Anquietas314]

One thing I'm pondering (as a reason why?)... the way I launched and docked the sections. The engine section for example, was atop the launcher... when I met up with the tank section, I undocked it and then hooked the other ship (tanks) to it... but that made it 'debris' when I undocked it (no command module on it). I just noticed that in the persistent file, parts still hold labels of 'debris'. Does that have anything to do with it???

I doubt it. The game tracks ship names after docking so that the names are restored when you undock. Also, damnit. Now I have to go installing mods. lol

[Mesons]

I've built a ship up in orbit, docking sections together. I can move the ship using RCS thrusters, but I cannot get the engines to fire. I'm stumped. I've checked all the Clamp-o-tron Sr.s, and none of them have crossfeed disabled. All the fuel tanks are full. The solar panels are not shown in the image below, but they're there (retracted)... and there's plenty of battery power onboard. There are 3 Kerbals onboard also. The engines are LV-T30's, 4 of them attached to a TVR-400L Stack Quad adapter... I've right-clicked each engine and 'activated' them. I still can't get them to fire. The staging indicator shows they have no fuel... yes, it's docking mode in the image, from testing the thrusters... still doesn't fire from staging mode. When I try to fire, or right-click deactive/reactivate, all the engines do is 'hiss'... and it's indicated there's no fuel flow. What's going on here? This thing should fly - no?

http://i.imgur.com/RioXGmv.png?1

The bottom left of your screen shows the docking mode controls, so you are in docking mode. I think the default thrust controls are inactive in docking mode (so that you don't accidentally blast right through your target's docking port, I assume). If I remember correctly, toggling docking mode is done by default with Insert/Delete. Try going to staging mode (thereby exiting docking mode) and see if that helps.

Edit: oops, didn't read all the way through your message, I guess. I'd still make sure you are testing your ideas in staging mode. Were the engines firing before you docked the ships? If not, showing no fuel on the staging list indicates to me that you do not have fuel piped to the engines. The engines need to either be attached directly onto a fuel tank or have a fuel pipe connecting to them. It looks like you have adapters connected to the engines in the image you attached.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Mesons

[Anquietas314]

The bottom left of your screen shows the docking mode controls, so you are in docking mode. I think the default thrust controls are inactive in docking mode (so that you don't accidentally blast right through your target's docking port, I assume). If I remember correctly, toggling docking mode is done by default with Insert/Delete. Try going to staging mode (thereby exiting docking mode) and see if that helps.

Try actually reading the OP. It specifically mentions that is not the problem.

[Anquietas314]

Hmm okay, having managed to open your persistence file, finally... Lazor actually modifies the stock docking ports? That could well be your problem; perhaps in doing so the fuel cross-feed is messed with.

[Mesons]

Try actually reading the OP. It specifically mentions that is not the problem.

Manners, please.

Ok, here's the link to the persistent file...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jk4t5k5oqq0f5q3/persistent.sfs?dl=0

The mods I have installed are Lazor (docking cam) and SCANsat. That's it.

One thing I'm pondering (as a reason why?)... the way I launched and docked the sections. The engine section for example, was atop the launcher... when I met up with the tank section, I undocked it and then hooked the other ship (tanks) to it... but that made it 'debris' when I undocked it (no command module on it). I just noticed that in the persistent file, parts still hold labels of 'debris'. Does that have anything to do with it???

*edit* The ship(s) are 'Voyager'.

I had some funny business docking/undocking with base sections landed on the Mun with a rover, when the base sections had no probe/command module on them. They were attached to a controlled part, then I docked the rover, then detached from the lander, so that rover+section were a vessel, then undocked the section. I wasn't able to dock with the base section again, even after moving a great distance away and coming back. If your engines are connected directly to a fuel source, there could be some issues with this, but since you were able to dock it's probably not related.

[Anquietas314]

So I just tried to undock the engine with the intention of redocking to see if that would work. Interesting problem: the ship stays docked, with no option to decouple the ports. Can you replicate this on your end ferret? (quicksave first, of course)

[LordFerret]

Here's the 'test' I ran... it's essentially the same thing I've got up in orbit...

And, as you can see, the engines fire...

As far as undocking and redocking, I'll go try that. However, I've done it before. I have seen some issues mentioned here in the forums of people having problems with the Clamp-O-Tron Sr, so that could be an issue. Whether or not it's related to Lazor? Don't know. If it is, and I can narrow it down as such, I'll have to report it to Romfarer on the Lazor thread. Let me go try.....

[buzz66boy]

Late to the party but here's a possible idea.

In the past I have experienced this while docking (mind you this was in previous versions). I found I needed a small fuel tank as part of the docked section in order for fuel tanks in other docked sections to feed to the engines.

Mind you this was also docked in space, not made in the editor. I think making it in the editor it usually worked, but docked from different launches it would not. Good luck anyhow!

buzzboy

[Mesons]

So I just tried to undock the engine with the intention of redocking to see if that would work. Interesting problem: the ship stays docked, with no option to decouple the ports. Can you replicate this on your end ferret? (quicksave first, of course)

This is consistent with the docking issues I saw on the non-command sections I mentioned in my previous post. The solution: slap on a probe core, LordFerret.

[Anquietas314]

The solution: slap on a probe core, LordFerret.

The problem there is the ship is already complete, and the engines - at least on my end - can't be undocked at all. You can undock the entire fuel tank it's attached to, but I somehow think deorbiting/replacing that is not going to be much fun.

[LordFerret]

I was trying to avoid having (what? 3?) probe cores on this manned vessel.

It appears the issue is with the Clamp-O-Tron Sr. With Lazor installed, right-clicking on the inboard docking port brought up the menu with the 'undock' option... selecting it did not undock however. With Lazor removed, same issue.

I notice in the persistent.sfs file, entries for a few of the docked sections have a 'debris' tag on them... and I notice that 'vesselType = 0' ... where on the other sections not tagged 'debris', 'vesselType = 6'. That's what I was asking about earlier, if that attribute had anything to do with it.

If a probe core IS the answer... that sucks... because now I have 3 Kerbals to rescue and a ship to again Terminate and start all over. I would think my plan should have worked. The "Frustration Kraken" strikes again.

Thanks all. Mod, I'm going to leave this as unanswered until a firm definitive answer is found.

[Mesons]

Have a look at the docking state listed in the persistence file--I think this problem is caused by one of the docked ports not updating its docked status. You can probably solve the problem by correcting where the docking status is incorrect. I read that in a thread devoted to this problem somewhere a long time ago when I had my related problem.