Should remote tech now be integrated into stock KSP?

[Grover]

No, whilst those that enjoy it would probably keep it as a permanent mod, those that dont wouldnt get any benefits, and the poor newbies would be at ends.

It works well as a mod. And you know the saying: if it aint broke, keep the kerbals away from it! I mean... Dont fix it...

[RCgothic]

Remote Tech is one of my favourite mods, and I rarely play without it. But it is a level of difficulty that's not for everyone.

Deadly re-entry on the other hand... I find it hard to believe that would be too difficult for newbies to grasp. Just about EVERYONE knows that re-entry requires a heatshield. And the thing is - even unshielded parts can survive re-entry if the angle is shallow enough.

[eddiew]

I played with RT2 in 0.25, and I can see where it's coming from with the realism aspect, but in the end I haven't kept it for my new 0.90 game. Short version is that it adds a whole lot of new problems (line of sight, range, connection targets, signal delay) without offering viable solutions for them.

- Signal delay; there's nothing in RT2 to help you with getting a probe down onto Duna or Eve, let alone places without atmosphere. Really needs a lot of timing devices and integrated smart autopilots to make this work. And just forget probe-rovers. You can however turn signal delay off, so we're left with things like:

- Line of sight; fair and realistic. Unfortunately I never found the flight computer reliable at performing manoeuvres, and it was too hit and miss to consider aerobraking, which pumped up my fuel requirements massively.

- The geostationary issue; never once did I manage to get two satellites into sync. They always needed maintenance every few weeks to nudge them around and stop them bunching up. Maybe RT2 could have a 'station keeping' device that would have a satellite hold it's own position, even when not focussed, as long as it's within say 50m of the ideal altitude?

- Connection targets; oh the frustration of having forgotten to point your dish at 'Kerbin' instead of mission control. Surely all probes could have a 'try to stay connected' mode where they search the sky for anything that's listening? Or the basic omni antenna could be allowed to receive 'open your main dish' signals.

- Power issues; those dishes suck so much juice! Keeping them powered through the dark bits of orbits is remarkably hard.

- Range; this was a minor irk for me, but I always felt mission control should be automatically upgraded as you unlocked more antennae. The power problem prevented me from putting a ground-relay next to mission control until I had RTGs, because the battery requirement was so enormous to get through a 3 hour night.

- Lack of ground stations; this felt harsh. Ideally, RT2 could provide the option to purchase more ground installations at the equator and poles, upgrading to full-sky coverage without the need for a Kerbin-SOI relay network.

- Save file size; when you're upwards of 50 missions in flight, saving becomes a chore. Every switch to the VAB, SPH, or any other building was starting to take ages as the game saved in the background. (This is not RT2's fault, but it is a problem.)

Despite this, I have nothing against RT2. I can certainly see why some people really enjoy it - it's a great realism mod, and if that's your thing, you'll love it, and maybe in a few months I'll have a playthrough with RSS and RT2 and DRE, etc, just to see how realistic, and hard, I can make the game.

But, IMHO, RT2 is not a mod for 'fun', and it's not at all newbie friendly, and therefore needs not to be Stock.

[Oafman]

It would have to be optional, because it's kind of hard at first, and KSP already offers more than enough challenge for newbies.

And if it needs to be optional, then it might as well remain a mod. I think RT is fantastic btw, I never play without it, but it shouldn't be forced on people.

Scansat has a better case, because it presents challenges but doesn't prevent you doing other things when you're starting out.

[SmashBrown]

Good to see i kicked off a bit of a discussion. We definately need a point to these satellites though. Maybe get rid of signal delay, or as some have said, antennarange.

[Random Tank]

"Sending Kerballed missions is already more useful in nearly every application... lets nerf probes!" No thanks... it's alright modded as you can give Kerbals Life Support, making probes have the advantage of infinite lifespan, but until they add a form of (optional) LS into Stock, RT is just gonna make probes even worse....

[eddiew]

DMagic's Orbital Science and Scansat combine to give a good reason for satellites. The techs unlock slowly enough that you'll end up launching several to get a full slew of reports from Kerbin, Mun and Minmus at least.

That said, I think it would be totally fair if contract satellites became unowned objects, or disappeared, once they're in place. Your job was to put one there then turn it over to a private company, after all... it's a bit cheaty that you can then re-route it ten seconds later, or route your ​communications through it

[Tw1]

"Sending Kerballed missions is already more useful in nearly every application... lets nerf probes!" No thanks... it's alright modded as you can give Kerbals Life Support, making probes have the advantage of infinite lifespan, but until they add a form of (optional) LS into Stock, RT is just gonna make probes even worse....

Agreed. Probes aren't that useful when playing a career game atm. Some simple, easy, yet ballance changing life support would be good.

Single resource, able to be topped up from the right places, etc.

Remote tech is pretty cool, but I'm not sure it's quite right for pure stock games. A more simple set of range limit, or perhaps varying levels of data loss could be a way to differentiate between the antennas. You could do networks that way. Simpler than remote tech, but still promotes setting up your own satellite network -this gets you thinking and planning, not just passively following the contracts.

That said, I think it would be totally fair if contract satellites became unowned objects, or disappeared, once they're in place. Your job was to put one there then turn it over to a private company, after all... it's a bit cheaty that you can then re-route it ten seconds later, or route your ​communications through it

Agreed, it would make sense, and would allow you to take them more frequently without cluttering the map or save file. Unless the contracts are modified to give satellites life spans, after which you must deorbit the satellite, or face some penalty. Though making them disappear should be optional- done with a stop tracking button.

Edited December 23, 2014 by Tw1

[eddiew]

I've just been terminating them from the tracking screen, or crashing them into the local planet to get rid of them. Effective, but shouldn't be allowed...

As for life support, a combination of TAC and MKS does a fine job, and indeed makes me prefer to send probes for anything that's not a landing. And even some landings The down side is my kerbals may never get to level 5 unless I create some sort of training scenario for them...

Hey, wait, why doesn't the top tier astronaut complex have a training facility in it?

Edited December 23, 2014 by eddiew

[rkman]

Adding my support for "RT is to complex but something like antennarange would be nice to have".

[SmashBrown]

I've just been terminating them from the tracking screen, or crashing them into the local planet to get rid of them. Effective, but shouldn't be allowed...

As for life support, a combination of TAC and MKS does a fine job, and indeed makes me prefer to send probes for anything that's not a landing. And even some landings The down side is my kerbals may never get to level 5 unless I create some sort of training scenario for them...

Hey, wait, why doesn't the top tier astronaut complex have a training facility in it?

Orbital training facility anyone? Build a station, keep some kerbals up there, transfer them in and out of kerbin SOI on a training ship to level them up! Jebediah would definitely be the CO there 😃

- - - Updated - - -

I've just been terminating them from the tracking screen, or crashing them into the local planet to get rid of them. Effective, but shouldn't be allowed...

As for life support, a combination of TAC and MKS does a fine job, and indeed makes me prefer to send probes for anything that's not a landing. And even some landings The down side is my kerbals may never get to level 5 unless I create some sort of training scenario for them...

Hey, wait, why doesn't the top tier astronaut complex have a training facility in it?

Orbital training facility anyone? Build a station, keep some kerbals up there, transfer them in and out of kerbin SOI on a training ship to level them up! Jebediah would definitely be the CO there 😃

[SmashBrown]

Stupid phone double posting

[Drethon]

I'd like to see Remote Tech and Life Support (with some sort of expensive greenhouse capability) added as an option, rather than a default setting.

[Nathair]

I'd like to see Remote Tech and Life Support (with some sort of expensive greenhouse capability) added as an option

^This^ although I would change "like" to "LOVE!".

[eddiew]

Thing is that while life support and remote connections with signal delay are realistic, realism doesn't always equate to fun. I think Squad is better focussing on new things you can do and explore (bigger ships, better planes, new planets, new reasons to build specific things in specific places) than on restricting play. Let mods add realistic restrictions, and let players choose whether they want them - or not

AntennaRange however, not a bad idea - gives you a reason to use the bigger dishes, which actually broadens play, rather than narrowing it down.

[John FX]

I`d like it in the difficulty settings along with Deadly Reentry. I will assume we will get something like FAR as standard.

We currently have a blank `advanced difficulty settings` section, they should go there.

I support the idea of Scansat being stock. We should have to scan to discover biomes, not have all of them just displayed on the first day...

[EladDv]

I`d like it in the difficulty settings along with Deadly Reentry. I will assume we will get something like FAR as standard.

We currently have a blank `advanced difficulty settings` section, they should go there.

I support the idea of Scansat being stock. We should have to scan to discover biomes, not have all of them just displayed on the first day...

really for the basics- Reentery heat,comms networks,even more complicated Aero and life support should go on advanced but the rest should stay at mod forms

[MartGonzo]

There's about a dozen mods I think would be good additions to stock

Remotetech isn't one of them

And as much as I love scansat I really don't think that should be stock as every single career I've started so far has fallen apart at the seams once I get a few scansats around other bodies.

weird stuff starts happening then increasing crashes followed by starting yet another new career.

[klgraham1013]

"Fun" is a dangerous term here. RemoteTech may not always be fun, but the overwhelming reward, the sense of accomplishment is well worth the effort. Playing early KSP wasn't always fun, but the first time you landed on the Mun? So, I'd be wary when throwing the word "fun" around. Anyway...

It should only be stock at the higher difficulties, if at all.

Life support should only be added if Alarm Clock and Transfer Planner are as well. Otherwise, planning such a mission could, more often than not, lead to dead Kerbals.

[lajoswinkler]

Many people are missing the point on this issue. Some mods are better left as mods. If these mods (RemoteTech, Life Support, Deadly Reentry) were integrated into the stock game. It would make the game less enjoyable for some people.

Perhaps they could be included in a DLC, but certainly should not be forced down the throat of everyone.

I don't know why are some people against Deadly Reentry. It is not hard (and it has easy, medium, hard option) even in hard option. All it takes is adding a heat shield and having a common sense that says: "Don't plunge the vessel at the planet like a bullet into a target board".

It does allow aerobraking. Unlike RemoteTech, DRE is not hardcore, and yet it gives a sensible level of realism.

If it would make the game less enjoyable for people who play KSP like they play some flash game on Facebook, well... *uck them. Most players don't.

[annallia]

If it would make the game less enjoyable for people who play KSP like they play some flash game on Facebook, well... *uck them. Most players don't.

Should always use caution when speaking for other people...

[MGCJerry]

I'd like to be able to have Remote Tech, Scansat, & have life support(stock, Snacks!, or TAC) as a difficulty option. This would allow me to run a "Kerbal Space program" or a "Space Program".

[klgraham1013]

...life support(stock, Snacks!, or TAC) as a difficulty option.

I really think this is what Squad should do.

[Franklin]

Squad thinks life support is too much of a fun barrier for players, I can't imagine they'd support having to explain satellite networks and signal delay in a way that isn't frustrating/exhausting.

[MrCynical]

Much as I enjoy the mod, I think a lot of people might find building the comsat network necessary to do much with remote tech to be more tedious that fun. Limiting the antennae ranges would be a good idea though. Simple enough and would actually give a purpose to the larger transmitters.