NecroBones

[1.4.1] Color Coded Canisters 2.0.1 (2018-03-14)

Recommended Posts

Hi again,

the lastest iteration of the tank caps look really, really good, a bit of nitpicking though: is it just me or do the cupola elements look kind of flat, as if the curvature is flatened?

Regards

It's about the same curvature in the SpaceY tanks, and the stock 3.75m. (in fact, I started out by taking one of the SpaceY tanks and scaling it down).

You can tell how deep the curve is by the space on the inside of the rims. The center comes up and touches whatever you stack on top, and curves down that distance at the sides.

But I was considering deepening the curve. The fact that you've said something might be a good sign that I should do that. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, the curve is a little deeper, and smoother (polygon-wise) on the X200-16 and X200-32, and FL-T400. Adjusted the gradients a little, adjusted the rim holes, and found a great photography angle. :)

KSP%202014-12-27%2012-01-42-40.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey all, updated screenshots, and there are several, so I threw them into an imgur album. I'll get this out as version 0.3 pretty soon, and probably start calling it a "beta" and get it up on KerbalStuff, etc.

Made the FL-T100/T800 tanks, and the 3.75m tanks. One of the things I find amusing in the stock 3.75m tanks is that Squad designed it to be a shared texture for all three tanks. And then they did something silly and put a copy of it with each tank, so they each load their own personal copy, thereby not saving any memory, nor taking advantage of all that texture space.

I did my usual texture-sharing thing, and have some nice clean versions here, IMHO. All of the tanks in this pack are using a slightly "brushed" texture on the paint, and mirror the panels back and forth, so they can share the textures efficiently, and still get some nice detail.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hey all, updated screenshots, and there are several, so I threw them into an imgur album. I'll get this out as version 0.3 pretty soon, and probably start calling it a "beta" and get it up on KerbalStuff, etc.

Made the FL-T100/T800 tanks, and the 3.75m tanks. One of the things I find amusing in the stock 3.75m tanks is that Squad designed it to be a shared texture for all three tanks. And then they did something silly and put a copy of it with each tank, so they each load their own personal copy, thereby not saving any memory, nor taking advantage of all that texture space.

I did my usual texture-sharing thing, and have some nice clean versions here, IMHO. All of the tanks in this pack are using a slightly "brushed" texture on the paint, and mirror the panels back and forth, so they can share the textures efficiently, and still get some nice detail.

http://imgur.com/a/goA7X

0.3 is ready for download. KerbalStuff is in read-only mode right now, so I'll get it going there later.


0.3 (2014-12-29) - Beta
- Further color/texture updates
- Added FL-T100, FL-T800, completing the 1.25m lineup.
- Added all three 3.75m tanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Getting a 403 forbidden on your download link =(

Woops, fixed!

- - - Updated - - -

Also have it up on KerbalStuff now. Now that the essential tanks are usable, I'm calling it a "beta". I'm still definitely interested in feedback about the tank appearances and the like.

I haven't decided what to do about the orange/jumbo. A part of me doesn't want to mess with it. The other part wants prettier end-caps. ;) To do it right though, I think it still needs the normal maps (effectively bump mapping) and the original orange texture. It might be possible to make a new model that uses the original textures for the exterior, and a new one for the ends. It's worth considering.

The 3.75m tanks should look pretty similar to the stock tanks, but with some notable differences. For one, THE STRIPES ARE STRAIGHT. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think this was the first mod added to KerbalStuff after the revamp yesterday. I was sent a note that the automatic addition to CKAN failed, so I'm trying to follow up to get it manually added there.

BTW, any feedback on colors, usefulness of the color-coded, etc is always still useful. :) I think the tanks are looking pretty spiffy now. The good news is that if we decide to change the colors on the tank caps, it's pretty straightforward to do.

I'm toying with the Orange tank a little. Nothing set in stone, of course.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While researching real life pictures of tanks in other colors than orange, I noticed that the rims also can have color and patterns. In the below chart, I put a column for rim color based on the manufacturer logo's secondary color. This is just an idea – I am not sure about it.

The rims I'm a little more hesitant on, and here's why: At different distances and zoom levels, there are rounding errors in both the texture mapping, and the positioning of the polygons, and so sometimes the upper/lower surfaces of the rims show through for a few pixels at a time, when normally they should be hidden. This is not noticeable if those surfaces are nearly the same color as the exterior of the rim, which is why this first round on the tanks has the same dark grey all the way around that rim section. On SpaceY I mitigated it by making the rims edges use a gradient that starts dark at the edge, and is brightest in the center. But that's harder to get away with in a smaller model with a lower texel density.

Coming back to this point-- Something I noticed on the newer stock spaceplane parts, is that some of them have a yellow-tan sort of rim color, and what they did is wrap the color to the outside of the rim a little. This helps hide the Z-fighting color-clashing nonsense I was talking about (which actually isn't that huge of a deal, but still good to avoid if you're being a perfectionist). Of course, that means letting the color-coding show from outside of the tank, at the ends, by also partially color-coding the rim exteriors. This is doable, but I'm not sure how people feel about little lines of orange/green/yellow/whatever always being visible.

Or we could color-code the rims inside, and just put up with the fact that a few pixels of it will show from time to time at various distances/zooms.

And of course we can just leave it alone and stick with the grey metal. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think this was the first mod added to KerbalStuff after the revamp yesterday. I was sent a note that the automatic addition to CKAN failed, so I'm trying to follow up to get it manually added there.

BTW, any feedback on colors, usefulness of the color-coded, etc is always still useful. :) I think the tanks are looking pretty spiffy now. The good news is that if we decide to change the colors on the tank caps, it's pretty straightforward to do.

I'm toying with the Orange tank a little. Nothing set in stone, of course.

I'll try out the update. Only now has it become enough parts to actually be useful.

Now that the inside of the X200-8's outer-wall can be seen, there must be a sticker saying DKAPC. :D

Orange tank:

  1. I especially dislike how the bottom third seems off-colored.
  2. Maybe it is possible to match the 2.5m inner-tank color to the outside?
  3. Instead of the gray rings, try putting gray panels from ring and out, then match the end-curvature to begin at ring height. It will look like a inter-tank fairing on a pill-shaped tank. Alternatively, let those panels be rippled orange like the real thing.

Is it possible to adjust the curvature on the inner-tanks, so it is exactly at node height at the radius of the next smaller size? This way size-mismatched constructs without adapters will look better.

Really, all adapters should be available from the beginning. How much technology is really needed to build an empty cone? Maybe when stock aerodynamics gets an overhaul...

Which brings me to another crazy idea:

Is it possible to make "pancake fairings"? If every tank that has it's top node in use would "cover itself", it would look much less bad to mismatch sizes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'll try out the update. Only now has it become enough parts to actually be useful.

Now that the inside of the X200-8's outer-wall can be seen, there must be a sticker saying DKAPC. :D

Hah! Awesome idea. I might have to do that. :)

Orange tank:

  1. I especially dislike how the bottom third seems off-colored.
  2. Maybe it is possible to match the 2.5m inner-tank color to the outside?
  3. Instead of the gray rings, try putting gray panels from ring and out, then match the end-curvature to begin at ring height. It will look like a inter-tank fairing on a pill-shaped tank. Alternatively, let those panels be rippled orange like the real thing.

Is it possible to adjust the curvature on the inner-tanks, so it is exactly at node height at the radius of the next smaller size? This way size-mismatched constructs without adapters will look better.

Really, all adapters should be available from the beginning. How much technology is really needed to build an empty cone? Maybe when stock aerodynamics gets an overhaul...

The odd change in coloring in the bottom third bothers me to. For now, I've modeled it to use the existing texture in the existing size, so it's still there.

For the inner tank color, that's probably doable, but unless we change all of the 2.5m tanks, I can't re-use the shared texture for it. It'll need its own. It doesn't need to be huge, so it's probably fine to add a 256x256 texture for it. I doubt people will complain about the extra 0.25 MB needed. So I think the main question comes down to whther we prefer to match its own color, or the others in the same diameter.

Not sure I understand on point #3. Some vertical strips would be straightforward, unless you're talking about the wedge-shaped pieces? Those could be fairly easy too. For now, I've kept the rings, since they're included in the stock texture, but I made them a little more low-profile.

For point #4 (after the list), right now the tank ends do come up and touch the center of the attachment node, and are fairly wide there. The center circle probably isn't as wide as the next diameter down, but at least there's some width to it there.

And I agree, the adapters being so late in the tech tree is a little silly.

Current screenshot:

KSP%202014-12-30%2014-13-00-36.jpg

Which brings me to another crazy idea:

Is it possible to make "pancake fairings"? If every tank that has it's top node in use would "cover itself", it would look much less bad to mismatch sizes.

Hmmm... That's possible. It's just crazy enough that it might work. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
For the inner tank color, that's probably doable, but unless we change all of the 2.5m tanks, I can't re-use the shared texture for it. It'll need its own. It doesn't need to be huge, so it's probably fine to add a 256x256 texture for it. I doubt people will complain about the extra 0.25 MB needed. So I think the main question comes down to whther we prefer to match its own color, or the others in the same diameter.

Nah, it is probably best to keep it matching the other 2.5m tanks, and if 3.75m stays the color it is now (other mods match the existing 3.75m design), the hues will be too close. It's okay though; the SSET's inner-tanks were apparently silver.

Not sure I understand on point #3. Some vertical strips would be straightforward, unless you're talking about the wedge-shaped pieces? Those could be fairly easy too. For now, I've kept the rings, since they're included in the stock texture, but I made them a little more low-profile.

Either Lh8Lp2r.png or let that area be rippled like X200-16, but orange.

For point #4 (after the list), right now the tank ends do come up and touch the center of the attachment node, and are fairly wide there. The center circle probably isn't as wide as the next diameter down, but at least there's some width to it there.

Browsing tank pictures, I can't help noticing that inner-tanks (except for the pointy SSET upper tank) are hemispheres. Obviously you can't go that far, but how does it look if you increase 2.5m curvature to half the height of an X200-8 and 1.25m to half the height of an FL-T100, and leave a next-smaller-size area flat? (That would be a quarter of an S3-2600 at 3.75, because the smallest tank is missing. R&S Capsuledyne adds it.) This applies to SpaceY tanks too.

New points:

  1. I think the FL-T100 needs a treatment similar to the X200-32. Just as you replaced the X200-32's horizontal belt with a panel-weld, so too replace the FL-T100's vertical bars with panel-welds. The tanks don't need their distinguishing features on the outside, now that we have color coding!
  2. The FL-T800, S3-7200, and S3-14400 are nice, but considering how amazing the FL-T200 and X200-16's ripples look, they appear too "painted". How hard would it be to make the ripples real?
  3. The 3.75m parts have lost their tube connectors between the inner tank and the outer wall. When you add them, remember to turn them the right way. The stock S3-14400 is rotated 90 degrees off.
  4. Are you up for revamping the KR-1x2 and KS-25x4? The latter could include a fake fuel tank dome to make it more believable. (Yes, it is a ridiculous-looking part.)
  5. And a huge one: color coding all engines' thrust plate tops (i.e. hidden in all but the strangest builds) to indicate their size.

- - - Updated - - -

which makes them easier to identify in the VAB/SPH menus.

It would be polite to include a warning to color-blind people, something in the line of:

Warning: This mod lessens the outwards differences between similarly shaped tanks of different sizes, in favor of distinction by inner-tank color. It is likely counter-productive to those with difficulty identifying colors in the green–yellow–red section of the spectrum.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Either http://i.imgur.com/Lh8Lp2r.png or let that area be rippled like X200-16, but orange.

Hmm, OK. Something to think about. Between the two, I think I'd rather do the orange rippling. The good news is I can sort of copy-paste some of the model components (sort-of). The rippling was a bit of a pain the first time, but I can duplicate it now that it's there.

Browsing tank pictures, I can't help noticing that inner-tanks (except for the pointy SSET upper tank) are hemispheres. Obviously you can't go that far, but how does it look if you increase 2.5m curvature to half the height of an X200-8 and 1.25m to half the height of an FL-T100, and leave a next-smaller-size area flat? (That would be a quarter of an S3-2600 at 3.75, because the smallest tank is missing. R&S Capsuledyne adds it.) This applies to SpaceY tanks too.

Hard to say. I could deepen the curvature a bit, but I didn't leave much texture space available for seeing more of the interior of the fuselage. Stretching the texture somewhat might be OK, which is what I did already in slightly deepening the curvature (25% increase in the "height" of the dome last time).

New points:

  1. I think the FL-T100 needs a treatment similar to the X200-32. Just as you replaced the X200-32's horizontal belt with a panel-weld, so too replace the FL-T100's vertical bars with panel-welds. The tanks don't need their distinguishing features on the outside, now that we have color coding!
  2. The FL-T800, S3-7200, and S3-14400 are nice, but considering how amazing the FL-T200 and X200-16's ripples look, they appear too "painted". How hard would it be to make the ripples real?
  3. The 3.75m parts have lost their tube connectors between the inner tank and the outer wall. When you add them, remember to turn them the right way. The stock S3-14400 is rotated 90 degrees off.
  4. Are you up for revamping the KR-1x2 and KS-25x4? The latter could include a fake fuel tank dome to make it more believable. (Yes, it is a ridiculous-looking part.)
  5. And a huge one: color coding all engines' thrust plate tops (i.e. hidden in all but the strangest builds) to indicate their size.

OK cool,

1. Yep, I can do that. Really all I did was make the X200-32 rib more low-profile, and more blended in color. I can certainly do the same here. I think somewhere earlier in the thread, someone had asked for a low-contrast version of it anyway. :)

2. On the T800, probably not too hard. On the other two, probably a severe pain because of how they cross in and out of the black/white painted areas, and I'm rapidly using up texture space. But it's possible I may be overlooking a simple solution (sometimes that works out), so I'll think on it a bit.

3. Yep, I'll get back to those.

4. Quite possibly, because I'm bothered by two things about them:

  1. I don't like the bi-radial symmetry on the KS-25x4. It comes from older concepts for the NASA-SLS, and I'd really prefer a normal four-way radial symmetry here.
  2. I don't like how tiny the engine bells are, compared to the thrust they generate, when compared to other stock engines. I want beefier proportions on those.

5. Wow. Uhm... Remodeling all of the engines? We'll see. :) (although it might be possible to just add secondary "shrouds" that show up in the VAB/SPH menus, but that will require some experimentation)

Now, for the latest update:

The auto-shroud thing on the tanks totally works. I can always adjust the texture later, but I made one shared "plate" design that is just scaled into all of the tanks. It's super-thin, and I think I have it positioned well enough that it won't do much "Z-fighting" nor make the attached parts look sunken into it. I made it a simple circular plate, since KSP will attempt to draw it, even when completely hidden between tanks.

Also re-added some of the "smooth" sections back into the FL-T200.

KSP%202014-12-30%2018-26-27-27.jpg

KSP%202014-12-30%2018-27-00-66.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2. On the T800, probably not too hard. On the other two, probably a severe pain because of how they cross in and out of the black/white painted areas, and I'm rapidly using up texture space. But it's possible I may be overlooking a simple solution (sometimes that works out), so I'll think on it a bit.

The T800 needs it the most too. It is both higher contrast, and likely to be stacked with a T200. The 14400 is worse than the 7200 because its fake ripples are wider. Maybe just change the 14400 to match the 7200?

4. Quite possibly, because I'm bothered by two things about them:

  1. I don't like the bi-radial symmetry on the KS-25x4. It comes from older concepts for the NASA-SLS, and I'd really prefer a normal four-way radial symmetry here.
  2. I don't like how tiny the engine bells are, compared to the thrust they generate, when compared to other stock engines. I want beefier proportions on those.

Be careful with that. So far CCC is only a visual mod, and can be added and removed without any functional changes to existing builds. I don't like models either, but you should at least stay within the current bounding box, if not the same collision mesh.

5. Wow. Uhm... Remodeling all of the engines? We'll see. :) (although it might be possible to just add secondary "shrouds" that show up in the VAB/SPH menus, but that will require some experimentation)

Yes, that is a good idea. Your SpaceY adaptive structures display their "fairings" in the parts list, but engines don't. I don't know how that comes about, but if you can add flat shroud tops (like the new concept tank covers, but colored) to be displayed in the parts list, it would be really cool. You surely do not need to re-model all the engines – at most, a slight modification of current texture would be enough. (I don't know about modelling at all, but I assume that it isn't like compiled C++programs that are not readily decompiled.)

Now, for the latest update:

The auto-shroud thing on the tanks totally works. I can always adjust the texture later, but I made one shared "plate" design that is just scaled into all of the tanks. It's super-thin, and I think I have it positioned well enough that it won't do much "Z-fighting" nor make the attached parts look sunken into it. I made it a simple circular plate, since KSP will attempt to draw it, even when completely hidden between tanks.

Also re-added some of the "smooth" sections back into the FL-T200.

http://www.necrobones.net/screenshots/KSP/KSP%202014-12-30%2018-26-27-27.jpg

http://www.necrobones.net/screenshots/KSP/KSP%202014-12-30%2018-27-00-66.jpg

Aaaand we've got another fairing "first". I hereby crown NecroBones as KSP's (un)official King of the Fairings:

1. First slanted fairing

2. First multiple fairings

3. First adaptive adapter

All I have to say is: Holy shrouds!

Make that 4. First automatic tank end-caps.

It looks amazing. Definitely a GO! No more crazy-looking career stacks, and asparagus landers can be made nice-looking by adding a physics-less cubic octagonal strut to the top node and sinking it in with the Offset gizmo.

Maybe "The Emperor of Shrouds" would be a better title?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another crazy idea re: the shrouds/fairings might be to somehow mimic what SpaceY does with a couple of its heavy lift engines - it creates two stack nodes below them, and stacking something on either of them produces a different-size shroud/fairing/whatever. I wonder if it would be possible to add a node floating out from the ends of fuel tanks where, if you attach something to that node, a slanted fairing is produced, but if you attach something to the node on the surface of the ends of the tanks, either a flat fairing (as you have) or nothing (presuming you'd only put the same size tank on that lower node) would be created.

Just a thought...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The T800 needs it the most too. It is both higher contrast, and likely to be stacked with a T200. The 14400 is worse than the 7200 because its fake ripples are wider. Maybe just change the 14400 to match the 7200?

I started experimenting, and got the T800 done. For the time being, I have the 7200 with modeled insets, since the paint scheme is easier. I'll probably release with that and let people play with it, before attempting anything on the 14400. If we don't like it, we can go back to thin painted strips.

So for now, modeled insets on the 7200, corrugation on the T800, subdued the look of the T100 a bit. Reworked the Jumbo quite a lot. Screenshots below.

Be careful with that. So far CCC is only a visual mod, and can be added and removed without any functional changes to existing builds. I don't like models either, but you should at least stay within the current bounding box, if not the same collision mesh.

No worries, with this pack I would want things to still be reminiscent of the originals and fit in the correct bounding boxes. Collision meshes are slightly less important now, since we can move things around with gizmos in ways we couldn't before, but it still needs to be really close to be a drop-in replacement. I'm thinking proportions can be tweaked a little within the confines of the collision mesh. But this is still up in the air. ;)

Yes, that is a good idea. Your SpaceY adaptive structures display their "fairings" in the parts list, but engines don't. I don't know how that comes about, but if you can add flat shroud tops (like the new concept tank covers, but colored) to be displayed in the parts list, it would be really cool. You surely do not need to re-model all the engines – at most, a slight modification of current texture would be enough. (I don't know about modelling at all, but I assume that it isn't like compiled C++programs that are not readily decompiled.)

Re-textureing the existing models is certainly possible, but the downside is that it eliminates texture-sharing, since they all have their own textures, and you have to have a drop-in replacement for the entire texture, even if you change only a few pixels. That's the beauty of doing the whole model from scratch, is that you can mix and match, and exert control over how the textures are used. But of course that's a lot of work to re-create what's already there.

But I think you can add additional models via the config (and thus MM), to be displayed as part of the object simultaneously to its original meshes. If so, then adding a shroud-like mesh shouldn't be too hard. The down-side is that these new components will be drawn when the part is attached, even if hidden inside. So it would be a balancing act between making something sufficiently visible in the menus, but small enough to not stick out anywhere when the part is in use on your vehicles. I'm thinking like a half-diameter "coin" on top of the engine, so that it's flat enough to be hidden when in use.

Make that 4. First automatic tank end-caps.

It looks amazing. Definitely a GO! No more crazy-looking career stacks, and asparagus landers can be made nice-looking by adding a physics-less cubic octagonal strut to the top node and sinking it in with the Offset gizmo.

Maybe "The Emperor of Shrouds" would be a better title?

Another crazy idea re: the shrouds/fairings might be to somehow mimic what SpaceY does with a couple of its heavy lift engines - it creates two stack nodes below them, and stacking something on either of them produces a different-size shroud/fairing/whatever. I wonder if it would be possible to add a node floating out from the ends of fuel tanks where, if you attach something to that node, a slanted fairing is produced, but if you attach something to the node on the surface of the ends of the tanks, either a flat fairing (as you have) or nothing (presuming you'd only put the same size tank on that lower node) would be created.

Just a thought...

I must say, if there's one thing I've learned while doing SpaceY and CCC, is just how versatile those shrouds can be. They still have some limitations to work around (such as the fact that they stay on the decoupler if you decouple something from the part in question), but it opens up a lot of great possibilities.

OK, onto the screenshots.

Just an FYI- I'll be slowing down on modding quite a lot, starting in the coming week. I'm picking up some college courses in addition to having a full-time job, so my modding time will be a bit more limited. I wanted to get this mod functional before that happens, and I think we're there, even if there's more to be done. I'll still be working on things, but I may not be able to pound out the experiments and new updates with the quick turn-around we've gotten used to. :)

KSP%202014-12-31%2014-48-34-33.jpg

KSP%202014-12-31%2014-49-25-21.jpg

KSP%202014-12-31%2014-49-50-19.jpg

KSP%202014-12-31%2014-50-01-78.jpg

KSP%202014-12-31%2014-50-22-31.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Another crazy idea re: the shrouds/fairings might be to somehow mimic what SpaceY does with a couple of its heavy lift engines - it creates two stack nodes below them, and stacking something on either of them produces a different-size shroud/fairing/whatever. I wonder if it would be possible to add a node floating out from the ends of fuel tanks where, if you attach something to that node, a slanted fairing is produced, but if you attach something to the node on the surface of the ends of the tanks, either a flat fairing (as you have) or nothing (presuming you'd only put the same size tank on that lower node) would be created.

Just a thought...

Ingenious! However, it could be both below (no fairing/next wider size), and on top (flat end-cap/next smaller size). It would solve the problem with ugly rockets in career, and avoiding adapters for weight reasons.

But it should obsolete SpaceY A3-12, A5-123, and A5-3. (A5-3 is already made redundant by A5-123)

My only reservation to including such functionality into CCC, is that it changes gameplay. Currently it is a purely visual enhancement mod.

Necrobones, maybe you could include both this and remakes of the NASA clusters in a separate stock revamp pack – of which CCC would be a subset (like 0PIF lite)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Another crazy idea re: the shrouds/fairings might be to somehow mimic what SpaceY does with a couple of its heavy lift engines - it creates two stack nodes below them, and stacking something on either of them produces a different-size shroud/fairing/whatever. I wonder if it would be possible to add a node floating out from the ends of fuel tanks where, if you attach something to that node, a slanted fairing is produced, but if you attach something to the node on the surface of the ends of the tanks, either a flat fairing (as you have) or nothing (presuming you'd only put the same size tank on that lower node) would be created.

Just a thought...

Ingenious! However, it could be both below (no fairing/next wider size), and on top (flat end-cap/next smaller size). It would solve the problem with ugly rockets in career, and avoiding adapters for weight reasons.

But it should obsolete SpaceY A3-12, A5-123, and A5-3. (A5-3 is already made redundant by A5-123)

My only reservation to including such functionality into CCC, is that it changes gameplay. Currently it is a purely visual enhancement mod.

Necrobones, maybe you could include both this and remakes of the NASA clusters in a separate stock revamp pack – of which CCC would be a subset (like 0PIF lite)?

Yeah, I'm thinking it would need to be a separate, super-set pack or something like that.

My other concern is what I ran into with the fairing thrust plates in SpaceY. When the nodes are at distances similar to the sizes of other parts, it can become impossible to attach things where you want. Since the stock tanks are used with more than just other tanks (and probably will be used with other mod parts), it's hard to predict the sizes in use. So on one hand it's adding a cool feature, but on the other it can become frustrating, and downright game-breaking depending on what you try to use with it.

Note: This is less of a problem with the SpaceY conical/adaptive size-adapters since they're being attached at the bottom of the stack, and don't have multiple additional nodes underneath.

Edited by NecroBones

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeah, I'm thinking it would need to be a separate, super-set pack or something like that.

My other concern is what I ran into with the fairing thrust plates in SpaceY. When the nodes are at distances similar to the sizes of other parts, it can become impossible to attach things where you want. Since the stock tanks are used with more than just other tanks (and probably will be used with other mod parts), it's hard to predict the sizes in use. So on one hand it's adding a cool feature, but on the other it can become frustrating, and downright game-breaking depending on what you try to use with it.

Note: This is less of a problem with the SpaceY conical/adaptive size-adapters since they're being attached at the bottom of the stack, and don't have multiple additional nodes underneath.

Hmm, that does make sense. Maybe best just to stick with the near-flat ones, then... those are still pretty darn cool. Also, maybe one comment about SpaceY - I can't remember the name of the engine for the life of me, but there's one 2.5m engine with that multi-node system that will only do 3.75m or 5m shrouds - would it be possible to add a straight 2.5m one on that one?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So for now, modeled insets on the 7200, corrugation on the T800, subdued the look of the T100 a bit. Reworked the Jumbo quite a lot. Screenshots below.

I love the 7200! Just to nit-pick: It is obviously made of 3-slats panels, exactly beneath the 3-holes on the rim elements. On the rim, it didn't bother me that the holes were in groups of 3. I saw it as the manufacturer's interface standard. but on the side it looks a little odd when so close to being even-spaced. Would it be possible to tweak to visually be even-spaced?

So it would be a balancing act between making something sufficiently visible in the menus, but small enough to not stick out anywhere when the part is in use on your vehicles. I'm thinking like a half-diameter "coin" on top of the engine, so that it's flat enough to be hidden when in use.

If they are flush like tank's end-caps, I don't think they will cause any problems even if extended until the edge. If someone places an engine on a girder or smaller diameter tank, it will be ugly anyway. In worst case, people can add TweakableEverything to disable the "fairing" in VAB.

I must say, if there's one thing I've learned while doing SpaceY and CCC, is just how versatile those shrouds can be. They still have some limitations to work around (such as the fact that they stay on the decoupler if you decouple something from the part in question), but it opens up a lot of great possibilities.

Very unlikely that the decoupling end will face a tank, adapter, or engine. And even if, it unlikely to cause harm.

Just an FYI- I'll be slowing down on modding quite a lot, starting in the coming week. I'm picking up some college courses in addition to having a full-time job, so my modding time will be a bit more limited. I wanted to get this mod functional before that happens, and I think we're there, even if there's more to be done. I'll still be working on things, but I may not be able to pound out the experiments and new updates with the quick turn-around we've gotten used to. :)

http://www.necrobones.net/screenshots/KSP/KSP%202014-12-31%2014-48-34-33.jpg

http://www.necrobones.net/screenshots/KSP/KSP%202014-12-31%2014-49-25-21.jpg

http://www.necrobones.net/screenshots/KSP/KSP%202014-12-31%2014-49-50-19.jpg

http://www.necrobones.net/screenshots/KSP/KSP%202014-12-31%2014-50-01-78.jpg

http://www.necrobones.net/screenshots/KSP/KSP%202014-12-31%2014-50-22-31.jpg

Oh yes, real life. Good luck. I'll try to survive without having my ideas being instantly implemented. :sticktongue: Here is some more rep for you to much on while studying and working. Enjoy.

- - - Updated - - -

Hmm, that does make sense. Maybe best just to stick with the near-flat ones, then... those are still pretty darn cool. Also, maybe one comment about SpaceY - I can't remember the name of the engine for the life of me, but there's one 2.5m engine with that multi-node system that will only do 3.75m or 5m shrouds - would it be possible to add a straight 2.5m one on that one?

The "moa" engine. Think Merlin: A flightless bird with an M. – Moa.

No more than two shrouds are allowed. KSP goes bananas if you put three or more. NecroBones tried it, as described in the SpaceY thread.

NecroBones, do you want me to respond to CCC and SpaceY things like this, beginning next week?

- - - Updated - - -

corrugation on the T800, subdued the look of the T100 a bit. Reworked the Jumbo quite a lot. Screenshots below.

http://www.necrobones.net/screenshots/KSP/KSP%202014-12-31%2014-48-34-33.jpg

http://www.necrobones.net/screenshots/KSP/KSP%202014-12-31%2014-49-25-21.jpg

Forgot to comment on those three:

T800: Perfect.

T100: The verticals are good, but I think you can subdue the horizontals equally or make it match the latest iteration of the T200. In any case, leave the black only on the very thin FL-T style edge.

Jumbo: Almost perfect. I like your middle band. Can you make the two black bands orange? Especially since a little of the orange bubbly surface is visible in the ripples.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I love the 7200! Just to nit-pick: It is obviously made of 3-slats panels, exactly beneath the 3-holes on the rim elements. On the rim, it didn't bother me that the holes were in groups of 3. I saw it as the manufacturer's interface standard. but on the side it looks a little odd when so close to being even-spaced. Would it be possible to tweak to visually be even-spaced?

Short answer is "yes", longer answer is "probably after the next update" (unless I get some good time to work on it tomorrow) since I basically have to re-do the indentations from scratch, or else have to do a lot of tweaking to make sure the textures stay lined up. I went with a subtraction method to put them in, which I normally avoid because it does funky triangular distortions and doesn't give you a lot of control over where it makes cuts in the polygons, etc.

I want to get the next update out tomorrow if I can, so you guys can all play with it.

If they are flush like tank's end-caps, I don't think they will cause any problems even if extended until the edge. If someone places an engine on a girder or smaller diameter tank, it will be ugly anyway. In worst case, people can add TweakableEverything to disable the "fairing" in VAB.

The "moa" engine. Think Merlin: A flightless bird with an M. – Moa.

No more than two shrouds are allowed. KSP goes bananas if you put three or more. NecroBones tried it, as described in the SpaceY thread.

NecroBones, do you want me to respond to CCC and SpaceY things like this, beginning next week?

Oh yes, please do answer questions. In this case though, we actually can get away with more than 3 shrouds. It's the decoupler nodes that cause the problems. I had a brain-fart on that in the other thread which I later corrected (and so one of the adaptive adapters actually does have three target diameters).

Forgot to comment on those three:

T800: Perfect.

T100: The verticals are good, but I think you can subdue the horizontals equally or make it match the latest iteration of the T200. In any case, leave the black only on the very thin FL-T style edge.

Jumbo: Almost perfect. I like your middle band. Can you make the two black bands orange? Especially since a little of the orange bubbly surface is visible in the ripples.

Yep, I can look into orange-ifying the bands, and see how it looks. The black rims look spiffy to me, but I'm willing to try it. I made all of those black bands part of the end-cap meshes since the corrugated stuff requires a few more vertices to stick together nicely. So I'll probably just copy out some orange to the other texture, since the 2.5m texture does have a little spare space.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, I got a little time today. I managed to get sick, so I'm working on things sporadically today, in between naps. ;)

But I have some screenshots! For the 7200, I played around with a few different methods of making the slots, and I wasn't satisfied with the results I was getting. So I went back to my first design, and just worked out the math to get the spacing right. That meant remapping the texture on the white parts a few times, but that went pretty smoothly. Also took advantage of the opportunity to adjust the spacing of the holes around the rims (which will affect all three tanks of that diameter since they're sharing the texture).

Got some tweaks in on the FL-T100 and Orange/Jumbo.

KSP%202015-01-01%2015-17-26-80.jpg

KSP%202015-01-01%2015-17-36-30.jpg

KSP%202015-01-01%2015-18-38-52.jpg

KSP%202015-01-01%2015-19-01-81.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Necrobones,

glad to hear your RL is getting more complicated ;), but don't we all seek ne challenges?

Regarding the retextures:

Is the "starlike" reflection on the X200 tanks intentional? If so, is it possible to tone it down a bit? In my game it looks as if the whole skybox is in the VAB for a party...

Thank you and a Happy New Year!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi Necrobones,

glad to hear your RL is getting more complicated ;), but don't we all seek ne challenges?

Regarding the retextures:

Is the "starlike" reflection on the X200 tanks intentional? If so, is it possible to tone it down a bit? In my game it looks as if the whole skybox is in the VAB for a party...

Thank you and a Happy New Year!

Happy new year!

Do you have a screenshot? I'm not sure what you mean by star-like for this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This thread is quite old. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.