[1.3.x] SETI, Unmanned before Manned [Patreon]

[Lord Aurelius]

For anyone who is interested, I managed to get a full SETI install working with Astronomer's Interstellar v2 pack without having to use ATM.

Here's what I did:

1. Install SETI

2. Use autopruner as per the instructions

3. Use the opengl tweak (append -force-opengl to the shortcut or to the launch options in steam)

4. If you're using an nvidia gpu (like I am) force antialiasing in the nvidia control panel

5. Install Astronomer's pack (and all dependencies) and test after each step (I was able to get it to load with all the essential features, had to use the lower res clouds for eve and jool, was able to install a few extras as well like the better sun)

6. Enjoy

Edited February 12, 2015 by Lord Aurelius

[SwGustav]

Liquid tank cone is bugged in career - wrong node position and no settings.

By the way, I figured that Compartment Tubes would be a great addition to KAS and Universal Storage.

Also, Pilot Assistant

Edited February 12, 2015 by SwGustav

[Assassin215k]

Liquid tank cone is bugged in career - wrong node position and no settings.

When you research next step, this will work normal. But yes, first step bugged

[SwGustav]

Lately, my progress has been incredibly slow. Oh well, that's what I get for playing on moderate..

Currently using these cheap rockets to put up a basic network (remote tech is hard). Career desperately needs bigger engine choice. It's not really fun to use LV-909 as a satellite engine, so this makes me want RLA stockalike support even more

Edited February 13, 2015 by SwGustav

[Superfluous J]

I started a fresh run on this today with everything all updated it's even better than the very impressive run I had last time. I love the starting contracts and how they actually work and just not having all those parts cluttering up the VAB is a sheer joy.

I wish I could fly planes in FAR. Maybe some day I'll complete that "Explore the island runway" contract without using a booster/parachute to get there.

[Yemo]

For anyone who is interested, I managed to get a full SETI install working with Astronomer's Interstellar v2 pack without having to use ATM.

Here's what I did:

1. Install SETI

2. Use autopruner as per the instructions

3. Use the opengl tweak (append -force-opengl to the shortcut or to the launch options in steam)

4. If you're using an nvidia gpu (like I am) force antialiasing in the nvidia control panel

5. Install Astronomer's pack (and all dependencies) and test after each step (I was able to get it to load with all the essential features, had to use the lower res clouds for eve and jool, was able to install a few extras as well like the better sun)

6. Enjoy

I consider this a challenge to support more part mods .

Liquid tank cone is bugged in career - wrong node position and no settings.

By the way, I figured that Compartment Tubes would be a great addition to KAS and Universal Storage.

Also, Pilot Assistant

When you research next step, this will work normal. But yes, first step bugged

Thank you! Will be fixed in the next update.

edit: Compartment Tubes looks straight forward, Pilot Assistant can just be added to the OP, thank you!

I started a fresh run on this today with everything all updated it's even better than the very impressive run I had last time. I love the starting contracts and how they actually work and just not having all those parts cluttering up the VAB is a sheer joy.

I wish I could fly planes in FAR. Maybe some day I'll complete that "Explore the island runway" contract without using a booster/parachute to get there.

Thanks!

Flying planes in FAR is like swimming, once you know how, it is easy.

First you should design the craft using the stability analysis (not everything has to be green, but for a start, it helps).

Second, it is incredibly important to restrict the control surfaces using Tweakable Everything!

Try setting the control surfaces to 50 for their job (yaw for rudder, pitch and roll for elevons) and very low for the other ones (pitch and roll for rudder, yaw for elevons).

After installing Tweakscale and Tweakable Everything, try the 2 aircraft I provided (Tweakscale is not behaving nicely with procedural parts attached, you have to reattach the engines on the Basic Jet).

After a bit of training, you can reliably start them on the mud runway, but I suggest landing somewhere else, or just use the parachutes for vertical landing.

Lately, my progress has been incredibly slow. Oh well, that's what I get for playing on moderate..

Currently using these cheap rockets to put up a basic network (remote tech is hard). Career desperately needs bigger engine choice. It's not really fun to use LV-909 as a satellite engine, so this makes me want RLA stockalike support even more

If you use Remote Tech, the Contract Pack for it should provide enough credits to build up a basic network. Will have to check out the progression requirements.

+1 for RLA Stockalike. I used them in my SETI run as well due to not liking TweakScale. TweakScale isn't really balanced and I've had bugs that break the craft when reloading. Not a good experience when you have a > 50 parts craft and you have to redo half of them due to TweakScale behaving badly.

Tweakscale is currently not developed/in limbo, it especially does not like the (stack) attachment of some engines (eg jets) to procedural parts, if TS is used on the engines. I investigated this issue, but did not find a solution, yet.

About the RLA Stockalike support:

Karbonite/Kolonization is still stalled mainly due to the lack of procedural parts and a little because MCM 0.4.2 is not officially released.

I ll give it another week or so and then start to implement the required procedural parts (based on the configs of Atrius129, with his permission), regardless of their implementation into the main Procedural Parts mod...

That stall and the progress/CTT support of KSP Interstellar Expanded by FreeThinker, coupled with the RLA Stockalike requests over here, lead to another option:

Karbonite/Kolonization shifted back (again) to 0.9.0.

0.8.0 support for KSP Interstellar Expanded and RLA Stockalike, as well as KAX (the firespitter.dll is merged with the one compatible to USI, but the KAX prop engines still throw exceptions on the runway, regardless of the used firespitter).

edit: KAX is already done, might as well release it now, together with some small fixes...

Edited February 13, 2015 by Yemo

[SwGustav]

0.8.0 support for KSP Interstellar Expanded and RLA Stockalike, as well as KAX (the firespitter.dll is merged with the one compatible to USI, but the KAX prop engines still throw exceptions on the runway, regardless of the used firespitter).

That is amazing! Thank you!

I wanted to try Interstellar for a long time, finally this will be my chance.

[Arachnidek]

While working on integrating your Initial Contracts mod into my Adios Tech Tree i found a bug. Every time i tried to test Initial Contracts (with a clean install-no other mods except CC,MM and Initial Contracts) it gave me errors ( Error:input is null ).

After a while i managed to find that the bug is with the minaltitude parameter. Not sure if Contract Configurator changed the parameters definition with the latest version but Initial Contracts didn't work for me and caused the game to hang. Some trial and error later i found a quick fix:

    PARAMETER
    {
        name = ReachState
        type = ReachState

        minAltitude = 18000
    }

It should be:

    PARAMETER
    {
        name = ReachState
        type = ReachState

        Altitude = 18000
    }

After that change Initial Contracts worked fine for me.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Arachnidek

[nightingale]

While working on integrating your Initial Contracts mod into my Adios Tech Tree i found a bug. Every time i tried to test Initial Contracts (with a clean install-no other mods except CC,MM and Initial Contracts) it gave me errors ( Error:input is null ).

After a while i managed to find that the bug is with the minaltitude parameter. Not sure if Contract Configurator changed the parameters definition with the latest version but Initial Contracts didn't work for me and caused the game to hang. Some trial and error later i found a quick fix:

    PARAMETER
    {
        name = ReachState
        type = ReachState

        minAltitude = 18000
    }

It should be:

    PARAMETER
    {
        name = ReachState
        type = ReachState

        Altitude = 18000
    }

After that change Initial Contracts worked fine for me.

The Error: Input is null is from Contract Configurator, but I have not been able to figure out for the life of me where from (and it has never caused any issues that I'm aware of, other than the log spam). As such, I've been putting off digging into it (if anyone has any clue what it means, let me know).

I double checked the code, and it definitely should be minAltitude and not Altitude. In fact I probably should change it so that it validates that there's at least one of the expected parameters (altitude, speed, etc.). If you put Altitude, it should ignore it, and then the parameter would succeed for *any* vessel state. So it seems there's something very weird going on (and I won't have time to look into it until later tonight). Are you able to provide some screen shots of the contract working with that? Also, hit alt-f10 to go into the Contract Configurator debug window - you'll be able to inspect any errors/warnings related to the contract there (if any).

[Yemo]

That is amazing! Thank you!

I wanted to try Interstellar for a long time, finally this will be my chance.

I talked to FreeThinker and as I understand it, there will be rather significant changes for KSPI extended config.

Which means the current version is soon outdated, thus making it rather uneconomical to put time into supporting it, before the changes are made.

So I do not know what to do for 0.8.0...

@Narval:

I went back to checking the fuel capacity of the procedural parts.

The stock liquid fuel parts are all over the place in terms of dry weight/density/fuel capacity.

Thus I decided to just leave the mixed fuel balance and for the non-mixed tank setting, I gave the room for the not used resource to the one which is selectec.

This greatly increases non-mixed fuel capacity for procedural parts, making aircraft much more economical in terms of dry weight/fuel tank space requirements.

@Arachnidek, nightingale:

I have no idea how/why the "Altitude = 18000" works and what to do about the null errors. I will investigate further, to deal with that issue.

I use the minAltitude since the first contract implementation for the SETI-BalanceMod and other than the log entries, there were no indications of problems.

New Version 0.7.6

Extended Mod Support

• Kerbal Aircraft Expansion - prop and heli engines, overwrite with this Firespitter.dll for compatibility, atm throws exceptions after staging while still on launch position
  
• 6S Service Compartment Tubes - 2 compartment fuselage fairings, requires this Firespitter.dll for compatibility, same one as above
  
• 2-Kerbal Command Pod - A new command pod for 2 Kerbals and working, integrated RCS
  

Rebalances and Adjustments

• Procedural Fuel Tanks can now hold much more fuel in the non-mixed modes (eg aircraft fuel)
  
• Mk1 Cockpit lighter (from 1.2 tons to 1.1 tons)
  
• Command Pod Mk1 heavier (from 1 ton to 1.1 tons)
  
• Mk1 Lander Can heavier (from 1 ton to 1.1 tons), can store 40 units of monoprop, integrated 40 unit KAS container
  
• Mk2 Lander Can weaker reaction wheel (from 4 to 2.4), can store 80 units of monoprop, integrated 60 unit KAS container
  
• Mk2 Clamp-o-tron renamed to Clamp-o-tron Mk2 Shielded for sorting
  
• Landing gears renamed
  
• Mk3 Cockpit reaction wheel balanced
  
• KR-8 RemoteTech dish (introduced by SETI), now uses different, smaller model
  
• Earlier Radial Engine Body and Small Hardpoint
  

Minor Changes and Fixes

Edited February 14, 2015 by Yemo

[Lord Aurelius]

Another update, nice. Looking forward to using the KAX parts.

One suggestion if you're looking for more to add, take a look at the stock part revamp [link]. It adds some nice replacement models for stock parts and makes some nice improvements like working RCS on the Mk2 Pod and animated fan blades on the circular intakes.

Edit: The game won't load with the newest update, it hangs loading KAXelectricprop. I installed the exception detector plugin and it shows an exception is thrown when that part is loaded:

Unknown

Partloader+.MoveNext: 1

The last few lines of the alt-f12 debug log are:

[Log]: PartLoader: Compiling Part "KAX/Parts/KAX_electricProp/KAXelectricprop

[Error]: [shipTemplate]: No Resource definition found for RESOURCE

[Log]: FSCoolant not found in resource database. Propellant Setup has failed.

[Exception]: NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

[Log]: [AS] removing 0 unused target parts

The game never actually crashes, it just hangs indefinitely at this point occasionally adding duplicates of the last line in the log until I kill it.

Edit: Found the issue, didn't notice that there was a resource config file tucked away in the Firespitter folder in the KAX download. I had skipped that folder since I already had a firespitter folder with the specific dll mentioned.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Lord Aurelius

[Yemo]

Did you install the Firespitter folder from KAX?

You have to first install that, and then overwrite the dll with the compatibility firespitter.dll, until KAX is updated to incorporate the right one itself.

edit: changed the update notes and the OP to "overwrite"

Also, the KR-8 dish is much too small, it will be made larger again in the next update.

- - - Updated - - -

When I saw the 2 Kerbal command pod, I was instantly thinking about the StockPartRevamp.

Then I started balancing the 2 Kerbal pod and adjusted some other pods in the process. When I got to the stock Mk1-2 pod, I had to check whether I used ATM on aggressive or something...

I then decided to leave the Mk1-2, and take a look at Vens mod again .

Well, with 0.8.0 that uncertain in terms of content, I m not sure when, but it will come. Most likely together with RLA stockalike and KSPI.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Yemo

[Lord Aurelius]

RLA stockalike and KSPI definitely look like worthy additions to this mod. I need more parts to fill up my RAM.

One more quick comment: you could probably bump the basic jet engine and circular intake a little farther up in the tree if KAX is installed, the radial engine fills the early aircraft niche pretty well. Right now they're both available at the same time.

[Papa_Joe]

Hey Yemo,

I would like to suggest the gameplay mod Connected Living Space (CLS) for those that want a realistic crew transfer and hatches on their docking ports. Link: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/70161

[nightingale]

The Error: Input is null is from Contract Configurator, but I have not been able to figure out for the life of me where from (and it has never caused any issues that I'm aware of, other than the log spam). As such, I've been putting off digging into it (if anyone has any clue what it means, let me know).

I double checked the code, and it definitely should be minAltitude and not Altitude. In fact I probably should change it so that it validates that there's at least one of the expected parameters (altitude, speed, etc.). If you put Altitude, it should ignore it, and then the parameter would succeed for *any* vessel state. So it seems there's something very weird going on (and I won't have time to look into it until later tonight). Are you able to provide some screen shots of the contract working with that? Also, hit alt-f10 to go into the Contract Configurator debug window - you'll be able to inspect any errors/warnings related to the contract there (if any).

More on this one - I had a look and if you change it to Altitude, you get the following errors:

[ERR 21:14:59.167] ContractConfigurator.ReachStateFactory: CONTRACT_TYPE 'Altitude18km', PARAMETER 'ReachState' of type 'ReachState': One of targetBody, biome, situation, minAltitude, maxAltitude, minSpeed or maxSpeed is required.

[WRN 21:14:59.169] ContractConfigurator.ReachStateFactory: CONTRACT_TYPE 'Altitude18km', PARAMETER 'ReachState' of type 'ReachState': unexpected entry 'Altitude' found, ignored.

Which is exactly what I would've hoped would happen. The contract is then disabled, which shuts up the 'Input is null' error messages (by removing the contract from existence).

Anyway, I did take a closer look, and my best guess is it's the contract system access some field or other from the contract, and then complaining because the value is null. I'll have a look and see if I can make a change to shut it up, although it's never cause any problems that I'm aware of.

- - - Updated - - -

Aha! It happens whenever you save a null value into a config node. The "problem" is that it comes out on load as an empty string instead of a null one (which I've always just accepted as how it works and dealt with it on load). Anyway, now that I know what the "error" (should be a warning) is about, I can shut it up.

That being said, it is nothing that will hurt anything, and can be safely ignored.

[SwGustav]

Great update, didn't expect that command pod & lander KAS storage

Well, with 0.8.0 that uncertain in terms of content, I m not sure when, but it will come.

Now that you say that, I remember someone proposed BoxSat and you said to take a look after 0.8.0. SInce things have changed, may be worth to take look earlier?

As we're on a stockalike vibe currently, I'd like to post this list of small stockalike part mods which I'd love to see supported in the tech tree in the future:

Taurus HCV - late game behemoth

Mk2 Essentials - you can't make procedurals in this shape

Mk3 Mini Expansion - amazing nose for shuttles and cabin for planes

Kerbonov Parts - great Mk1 stuff, probe RCS and seat

Nuclear Engine Clusters - self-explanatory, easier construction for heavy ships

GingerCorp Station Hubs - additional hubs

Inflatable Habitat Pack - self-explanatory, great for KOS and bases

Surface Lights - I know SETI has B9 lights, but these may be better

Starshine Industries - take a look at stockalike pack below, mainly engines and separatron, probably unneeded with RLA stockalike

ALCOR - not that stockalike, but very useful and cool

Edited February 14, 2015 by SwGustav

[Stalkov]

Hi Guys,

I have an issue with this mods. I installed SETI and all the requried mods and I don't have any contracts showing up in career (even when using time warp), there is also no parts showing up (in career, science, sandbox), everything is empty and therefore I cannot build anything.

This is what my GameData folder looks like:

Does anybody have any idea what's going on? Why is nothing showing up? Thanks.

[SwGustav]

Does anybody have any idea what's going on? Why is nothing showing up? Thanks.

Where is your Squad folder?

[Stalkov]

Where is your Squad folder?

Well... I had installed a bunch of other mods prior to SETI so I moved those mods to another folders before installing SETI but I moved the Squad folder as well... what an idiot Thanks SwGustav everything is working now!

[SwGustav]

Well... I had installed a bunch of other mods prior to SETI so I moved those mods to another folders before installing SETI but I moved the Squad folder as well... what an idiot Thanks SwGustav everything is working now!

You are welcome:) Don't forget to move NASAmission back as well (It's a stock folder too, SETI uses few parts from it)

[Yemo]

RLA stockalike and KSPI definitely look like worthy additions to this mod. I need more parts to fill up my RAM.

One more quick comment: you could probably bump the basic jet engine and circular intake a little farther up in the tree if KAX is installed, the radial engine fills the early aircraft niche pretty well. Right now they're both available at the same time.

Will do what I can to support more RAM demanding mods ;-).

While it would make sense from a progression point of view, it would be a nightmare to keep track which mods leads to what tech change. I had the same issue with solar panels. TACls and RemoteTech need them earlier, UniversalStorage has the alkaline fuel cell, but that does not count for contracts, and so on...

So I try to avoid part shifting based on mod installs wherever I can.

On a related note, the KAX prop engines seem too strong now, with FAR. Also I wonder why FAR did not half the thrust on the basic jet, like it does with the turbo jets. Will take a look at that balance again, probably nerfing the props for FAR back down (though I feel like 50% was too low).

Hey Yemo,

I would like to suggest the gameplay mod Connected Living Space (CLS) for those that want a realistic crew transfer and hatches on their docking ports. Link: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/70161

Added to the mod recommendations.

I was also browsing through the mods which support CLS, thank you for the suggestion!

[...]

Aha! It happens whenever you save a null value into a config node. The "problem" is that it comes out on load as an empty string instead of a null one (which I've always just accepted as how it works and dealt with it on load). Anyway, now that I know what the "error" (should be a warning) is about, I can shut it up.

That being said, it is nothing that will hurt anything, and can be safely ignored.

Very nice, thank you!

Great update, didn't expect that command pod & lander KAS storage

Now that you say that, I remember someone proposed BoxSat and you said to take a look after 0.8.0. SInce things have changed, may be worth to take look earlier?

As we're on a stockalike vibe currently, I'd like to post this list of small stockalike part mods which I'd love to see supported in the tech tree in the future:

Taurus HCV - late game behemoth

Mk2 Essentials - you can't make procedurals in this shape

Mk3 Mini Expansion - amazing nose for shuttles and cabin for planes

Kerbonov Parts - great Mk1 stuff, probe RCS and seat

Nuclear Engine Clusters - self-explanatory, easier construction for heavy ships

GingerCorp Station Hubs - additional hubs

Inflatable Habitat Pack - self-explanatory, great for KOS and bases

Surface Lights - I know SETI has B9 lights, but these may be better

Starshine Industries - take a look at stockalike pack below, mainly engines and separatron, probably unneeded with RLA stockalike

ALCOR - not that stockalike, but very useful and cool

KSPI extended for 0.8.0 is not totally off the table, I m digging through it and weighing the options/workload.

Since KSPI extended already uses the CTT, basic support for the current version would take limited effort in terms of techtree, while the parts are "beyond" the nodes I use, so part "rebalancing" would be minimal as well.

Will keep BoxSat in mind, though I would like to balance that together with other small parts/solar panel/etc mods (eg USI Exploration).

I will take a look at the other mods you suggested!

Also planning to release a minor 7.7 with some fixes/FAR engine adjustments before aiming for the next big update.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Yemo

[PeterPan]

I share your impression, that the KAX Turboprop Engines are too strong. They should have less power than the jet engines and it should not be possible to reach supersonic speeds with them imo.

[SwGustav]

I'm confused, are you doing interstellar extended or interstellar near future integration? Or both?? (sorry, I don't fully understand all these versions and variations)

[Yemo]

I share your impression, that the KAX Turboprop Engines are too strong. They should have less power than the jet engines and it should not be possible to reach supersonic speeds with them imo.

I m not sure about the whole mechanics, but I think it is also a game mechanic issue. In the KSP 1.0 update it is announced that atmospheric pressure will influence thrust, instead of ISP. So the current balancing is temporary anyway.

I'm confused, are you doing interstellar extended or interstellar near future integration? Or both?? (sorry, I don't fully understand all these versions and variations)

As far as I understand it:

"Interstellar Near Future Integration" is the original aim from FreeThinker.

Then FreeThinker "took over" KSPI 0.90 development from Boris (who could not continue due to rl), creating "KSPI 0.90 extended configuration".

So "KSPI 0.90 extended configuration" is the current focus, but will be/is a part of "Interstellar Near Future Integration".

Thus I want to support "KSPI 0.90 extended configuration" in the short run, and "Interstellar Near Future Integration" in the long run.

[SwGustav]

Thus I want to support "KSPI 0.90 extended configuration" in the short run, and "Interstellar Near Future Integration" in the long run.

So, first add Interstellar, and then Near Future + its integration into Interstellar.

How about creating a showcase KAX craft? At least something like this (my remake of SETI advanced jet)

Now that I've remembered BoxSat, I also remember now you haven't done anything about proposed Better Buoyancy. Just a reminder