Yemo

[1.3.x] SETI, Unmanned before Manned [Patreon]

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Seems im unable to complete the objectives for contracts. Well... atleast for the first one. I get my craft up and past 18km, but it doesn't register. Now again im using parts that are not in the suggested mods list that goes with SETI. So I don't know if maybe SETI is looking for a specific part I don't have or something else is going on. I figure this would be the best place to start.

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I have encountered some issues, which I need to fix before publishing.

Also, looking at the length of the accumulated changelog, I will release the update as version 0.8.0, instead of 0.7.7.

No new mod supports, but a massive amount of rebalances...

Better to catch bugs and squish them whilst missing a release than to releae and have us wondering what's going on Yemo :) We shall wait patiently :)

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I miss stock decouplers a little, mostly due to hazard stripes, and decided to create this: Hazard Stripes procedural texture (from left to right: default fillet, no fillet, cylinder)

Would Yemo be interested in this texture? I think it fits better than a default simple white color.

Update: I just made separator version (blue and white stripes). Will provide a screenshot later. Edit: Screenshot (from left to right: default fillet, no fillet, cylinder)

I also noticed procedural decouplers have fillet tweaking turned off. I really dislike that fillet so I turned it on right away. Is there a reason for this? Could this at least be put into SETI-Settings? Because if not for this texture I would never find that out.

Edited by SwGustav

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gimme gimme dat texture! )

The first reason why I don't use the procedural decoupler is because it didn't have that hazard texture. The second reason... the heck it's not hollow?

Edited by Enceos

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Well, I wanted to hear Yemo's opinion first and wait for 0.8.0 release, but since you request I guess I can release it now.

Download (includes both textures)

Put all 3 files into SETI/0ProceduralTextures (overwriting cfg).

Default texture and fillet change are not included because procedural part file (MM-PartModding/SETI-PartMod-ProceduralParts.cfg) has a probability to change in upcoming update. So do it yourself if you want it right away.

I also agree there should be a "ring" shape. Shapeable like a cylinder, but with a hole inside, diameter of which can be changed.

Edited by SwGustav

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Is it possible to make separators using the procedural decouplers? I've been putting 2 back to back to achieve the same effect since I didn't see any options to enable separator behavior.

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Is it possible to make separators using the procedural decouplers? I've been putting 2 back to back to achieve the same effect since I didn't see any options to enable separator behavior.

There's option to switch between decoupler/separator functionality in right-click menu

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Seems im unable to complete the objectives for contracts. Well... atleast for the first one. I get my craft up and past 18km, but it doesn't register. Now again im using parts that are not in the suggested mods list that goes with SETI. So I don't know if maybe SETI is looking for a specific part I don't have or something else is going on. I figure this would be the best place to start.

LOG

OUTPUT_LOG

Hm, I see that exceptions are thrown around the contracts, but I have very limited understanding of those. Nightingale, the author of ContractConfigurator, is the most likely person to help you out. The contracts are pretty standard, so you might want to ask in the ContractConfigurator thread.

I miss stock decouplers a little, mostly due to hazard stripes, and decided to create this: Hazard Stripes procedural texture (from left to right: default fillet, no fillet, cylinder)

Would Yemo be interested in this texture? I think it fits better than a default simple white color.

Update: I just made separator version (blue and white stripes). Will provide a screenshot later. Edit: Screenshot (from left to right: default fillet, no fillet, cylinder)

I also noticed procedural decouplers have fillet tweaking turned off. I really dislike that fillet so I turned it on right away. Is there a reason for this? Could this at least be put into SETI-Settings? Because if not for this texture I would never find that out.

Those look great. However the thing I miss most is the red arrow, pointing in the "decoupling" direction. Will have a look at them ingame after the update.

About the fillet tweaking, never notices, turned it on in the patch.

Well, I wanted to hear Yemo's opinion first and wait for 0.8.0 release, but since you request I guess I can release it now.

Download (includes both textures)

Put all 3 files into SETI/0ProceduralTextures (overwriting cfg).

Default texture and fillet change are not included because procedural part file (MM-PartModding/SETI-PartMod-ProceduralParts.cfg) has a probability to change in upcoming update. So do it yourself if you want it right away.

I also agree there should be a "ring" shape. Shapeable like a cylinder, but with a hole inside, diameter of which can be changed.

Yeah, ProceduralParts development is rather slow (read: non-existent at the moment).

And the SETI procedural parts config will see massive changes in the update...

- - - Updated - - -

What a pity. HOpefully you won't encounter more issues

So can we expect a giant amount of mod supports for the next version? Will it be numbered 0.8.5?

Well, I had little time except for thursday, so the encountered ones took some time.

Except for the likely fixes, 8.1 and most likely the following patches will concentrate on mod support.

- - - Updated - - -

What are your preferences regarding the general part support direction?

Planes, general SpaceParts, Colonization, future techs (KSPI/NearFuture), somthing else?

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Just as you wanted, I think it couldn't turn out better.

Blame procedural decoupler for squishing that arrow (or rather, inability to increase length). There's no way to make it better without sacrificing visibility. Edit: I should've made a screenshot of 1.25 decoupler :rolleyes:

Included in original download now.

What are your preferences regarding the general part support direction?

Planes, general SpaceParts, Colonization, future techs (KSPI/NearFuture), somthing else?

Right now I'm waiting for RLA stockalike and basic KSPI so I can start a new career. I'm kinda preferencing for more stock like parts (general SpaceParts), but also want to try colonization.

Edited by SwGustav

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Wasnt the arrow pointing downward on the decoupler?

Will plan it in for 0.8.1, I ve already finished testing 0.8.0 for most KSP mod versions, dont want to spoil it by changing even small things now.

And I already worked on some minor part integrations before releasing 0.7.6, but didnt finish.

So 0.8.1 should take considerably less time than this update.

I guess you could start a new career with 0.8.0, looking at the changelog.

And if you are not too fast, KSPI might be in time when you get to the relevant nodes (in the 0.90 ports of KSPI, the solar panels produce not enough heat around kerbin to need radiators...).

Edited by Yemo

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Thanks Yemo for the reply. I'm eager to get this working asap so I can start a new playthrough. I did inquire about the null reference errors in the CC thread. There's alot I know. I suspect hotrockets is the culprit to most, but there is that one that occurs directly after CC loads the contract when launching a vessel. Which brings me to a question. It says here in debug MANNED altitude? If so there's my issue. I dont have a pod to man in the start node. I would add one, but that defeats the purpose. I want unmanned then manned. It didn't specify this however and the tech tree more or less is the same.

Edit: I'm using all the suggested mods and then some. So I guess the structure this mod goes for is all out the window at that point. I get the FASA Mercury capsule in basic rocketry for instance. So... I guess the purpose of even trying this mod has long been defeated lol.

Atleast when it comes to the part layout in the tech tree with alot of mods. Thats a lost cause without hours of work. But I love the contract tree and that's what I really need to work. So when it comes to the 18km contract not working with my unmanned probe I'm gonna have to wait and ser what they say in the CC thread about that null reference.

Edited by Motokid600

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@Motokid600

You might want to start a new career with 0.8.0 only with the supported mods. When you are a bit further down, like getting to the 90 science nodes, add the other mods.

That would give you the early progression feeling without sacrificing the diversity of the other mods. Also, HotRockets is not working nicely with some other mods as of late, maybe try without it?

Anyway, the contracts are very "open" regarding parts, if nothing else is specified within the contract. And they certainly should not throw exceptions.

New Version 0.8.0

WARNING: TAC life support requires a compatibility file, link below "Download" in forum post

WARNING: This patch introduces massive balancing changes

New & Unused Parts

  • New 0.625m Jet Engine derived from the Basic Jet Engine
  • New 3.75m reaction wheel version
  • New 2.5m TACLS Water Splitter
  • New Procedural Life Support TankTypeOption: Hydrogen
  • New Universal Storage Processor: Carbon Extractor
  • C7 Brand Adapter (unslated version) removed (not per autopruner, since textures are needed for slated version)

Life Support and Universal Storage Rebalances & Adjustments

  • US and TACls recyclers moved around in the tech tree (eg to recycling branch in the CTT)
  • Rebalanced weights and densities for Procedural Life Support Parts
  • TAC life support Sabatier Recyclers changed to Sabatier Reactors, with appropriate resource process including Hydrogen
  • Drastically rebalanced recyclers for life support, 3 kerbal (1.25m) and 9 kerbal (2.5m) versions, all much lighter now
  • Universal Storage Recyclers/Converters now at 160kg and in line with TACls, providing resources for 1 Kerbal
  • US Food and Water wedges now weigh 80kg instead of 40kg, provide 200 days life support
  • US Oxygen wedge changed a little (400 days of life support oxygen)
  • US Hydrogen wedge now weighs 20kg (balanced with oxygen tank)
  • US Waste/WasteWater/CarbonDioxide tanks rebalanced as well
  • US fuel wedges now at 80kg instead of 120kg (density balancing), with appropriate fuel levels
  • US miniFuel Cell now has 2 fuel cells for 1 and 2 ec/s (which can be turned on and off separately), for 3 ec/s total output
  • US standard Fuel Cell now weighs 160kg instead of 120kg, but 3 times the internal fuel
  • US standard Fuel Cell now has 2 fuel cells for 4 and 8 ec/s (which can be turned on and off separately), total 12 instead of 16 ec/s

Command and Cockpit Rebalances & Adjustments

  • All probe cores have SAS and an integrated 160km always-on OmniAntenna (including HECS)
  • Mk1 Command Pod weaker reaction wheel from 1.5 to 0.9 torque, only food and water for 1 day, but oxygen for 3 days
  • Mk1-1 Command Pod, food and water for 10 days, oxygen for 12
  • Mk1-2 Command Pod from 3.6 to 3.4 tons, 40unit KAS storage, 80 unit monoprop, food and water for 10 days, oxygen for 12
  • Lander Cans have oxygen for 5 days instead of 3, increased monoprop by factor 1.5 and is filled as default
  • Mk1 Lander Can increased KAS storage to 60 units
  • Mk2 Cockpits heavier at 2.2 tons, gets 40 units of KAS storage
  • Mk3 Cockpit a lot heavier, 4.0 tons instead of 3.5tons, 40 KAS storage, optional 60 unit monoprop
  • KAX Cockpit now at 3.2 tons and 80 units of KAS storage

Aircraft Parts Rebalances & Adjustments

  • All Intakes have rebalanced (increased) mass, especially the non structural ones weigh a lot more
  • Rebalanced aircraft engines based on B9Aerospace configs by Taverius
  • KAX engines rebalanced (vague guesstimates, but much better than before)
  • Added TweakScale support for Intake: Mk1 Fuselage, Engine Nacelle and Radial Engine Body
  • Increased liquid fuel capacity for Intake: Engine Nacelle and Radial Engine Body (from 40 to 180)
  • Basic Jet Engine (1.25m version) back to Aerodynamics (New 0.625m Jet @stability)
  • TurboJet Engine back to SupersonicFlight

Craft Files

  • 2 versions, minMods and FAR, Jets and FAR designs use TweakScale
  • Redesigned Basic Jet, which can easily be transformed into a prop plane
  • Just swap circular intakes (front) and jet engines (rear) for props (front) and nose cones (rear)
  • Redesigned Advanced Jet
  • Redesigned Manned Rocket, uses decoupler and nose chute due to tech tree changes

Other Rebalances & Adjustments

  • Drastically rebalanced SRBs and Procedural Structural Elements (esp reduced costs)
  • Stock Radial Parachute has increased diameter, when used with RealChute (from 17m to 18m)
  • Procedural "Nose" Fairings to generalConstruction
  • Mk16 and Mk2-R parachutes swapped in the tech tree
  • Modular Girder Segment and Modular Girder Adapter to generalRocketry
  • 6S 1m Service Compartment Tube earlier @basicRocketry
  • Landertrons have 20% more thrust

Minor Changes and Fixes

  • Corrected KR-8 dish dimensions
  • Added CLS support to Mk1-1 A2 Command Pod and Mk3 Cockpit and Cargo bays
  • 2.5m Cockpits (eg KAX) use large connection node instead of medium one

Edited by Yemo

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I just started KSP to try some changes and saw this was updated.

"When you are a bit further down, like getting to the 90 science nodes, add the other mods."

That's a fine idea. Thanks again. And yea HotRockets is gone for now.

Edit: How is it I can swap the Mk1 pod with the FASA Mercury when I get to it? Is it as simple as replacing techrequired as usual or is there something I have to specify with SETI?

Edited by Motokid600

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Thanks for the great update Yemo!

Just a total curious question, what all mods do you use personally for your own game?

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Awesome balance update :D

I thought I'd see Procedural Fairings base decoupler in this, but oh well, next version then?

Also expected Mk3 Cockpit to be much heavier, like 6 or 7 tonnes.

Everything else is good

Wasnt the arrow pointing downward on the decoupler?

No, the arrow must point in the direction from which stuff will detach (so, to top)

Here's the screenshot that I wanted to make. Look how smooth it is.

Edit: Thinking of creating more stock textures, but the only thing that comes to mind is 0.625 decoupler texture (which is probably unneeded). Is there something particular you want Yemo?

Edit 2: I tried to make a stock X200 fuel tank and failed miserably. ;.;

Note: at least it's shiny.

UPDATE: Decided not to throw that away and tweak some more. Results: Screenshot 1, Screenshot 2, Screenshot 3

Not as shiny, but hey, it looks better, isn't it?

I forgot to screenshot, but it also has gray end caps (like a stock tank).

Edit 3: I put it into previous download which I also renamed - New Download Link

Edited by SwGustav

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Yemo blow it out a mod pack before what is good with 32 bit sparks like a good fit with your reblance. is it Snacks compatible i hate tac (make rockets to big) love snacks ( is more realistic and rockts look loke rockts)

Edited by Prismatech

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Yemo blow it out a mod pack before what is good with 32 bit sparks like a good fit with your reblance. is it Snacks compatible i hate tac (make rockets to big) love snacks ( is more realistic and rockts look loke rockts)

Use Universal Storage or procedural TAC containers (for which you can change textures) for better looks

But no, Snacks isn't supported

Edited by SwGustav

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my problem ist to found mod set what good to use with 32 bit. Will play with ,far ,remotetech 2, deadly reentry,mj(if not the man),with planet and orbit base ,planetary lunchpats.

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There are no part in tech node "hydroponics"?! i'm probably just missing a mod or part there of, but what should be in there?

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There are no part in tech node "hydroponics"?! i'm probably just missing a mod or part there of, but what should be in there?

Probably reserved for colonization mods

Edit: Is this possible to allow procedural decoupler length tweaking with tech levels? Because a 5m flat pancake doesn't look right.

Edited by SwGustav

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I just started KSP to try some changes and saw this was updated.

"When you are a bit further down, like getting to the 90 science nodes, add the other mods."

That's a fine idea. Thanks again. And yea HotRockets is gone for now.

Edit: How is it I can swap the Mk1 pod with the FASA Mercury when I get to it? Is it as simple as replacing techrequired as usual or is there something I have to specify with SETI?

Well, the Mercury/FASA parts have different balances.

Eg the mercury pod only weighs 0.76t while the Mk1CommandPod weighs now 1.1t. Also FASA uses much less potent reaction wheels which use monoprop. So be prepared to rethink your designs.

For the inclusion: Since you are "changing" in the beginning, I would make sure to have no active vessels at some point (if you have RT sats on, roleplay it as a meteor/radiation storm wiping them out :wink:) and then simply swap the GameData content.

It is simply the techrequired, if you want to have it at the different node (eg flight control). But imho if you have researched flight control, it does not matter whether the part is under basicRocketry or flightControl, will stay unlocked anyway.

Thanks for the great update Yemo!

Just a total curious question, what all mods do you use personally for your own game?

I do not have an "epic" career game at the moment.

In game I fly "missions".

Eg when developing 0.8.0, I just "debugged" me science and cash and flew a mission profile with the KAX prop variant of the SETI Basic Jet.

Which meant reliably reaching an altitude of 20km without boosters above a predetermined point and then landing in the small desert on the western shore of the starting land mass.

If I would start an epic/progression game, I would use my maxMods testing folder as a basis, which contains all mods listed in the OP.

Then I would probably add the major mods, like

some version of KSPI, eg KSPI NF Integration

Karbonite,

MCM/MKS/OKS,

ExtraPlanetaryLaunchpads

and some parts/part mods depending on personal preference, like

Airbrakes from B9,

various other parts from B9,

inline goo container from STX,

Cargo Transportation Solutions fairings,

USI Exploration and Survivability,

Mark IV Spaceplane System,

Universal Docking Port Set,

and so on...

Linux KSP64bit or ATM required...

Awesome balance update :D

I thought I'd see Procedural Fairings base decoupler in this, but oh well, next version then?

Also expected Mk3 Cockpit to be much heavier, like 6 or 7 tonnes.

Everything else is good

No, the arrow must point in the direction from which stuff will detach (so, to top)

Here's the screenshot that I wanted to make. Look how smooth it is.

Edit: Thinking of creating more stock textures, but the only thing that comes to mind is 0.625 decoupler texture (which is probably unneeded). Is there something particular you want Yemo?

Edit 2: I tried to make a stock X200 fuel tank and failed miserably. ;.;

Note: at least it's shiny.

UPDATE: Decided not to throw that away and tweak some more. Results: Screenshot 1, Screenshot 2, Screenshot 3

Not as shiny, but hey, it looks better, isn't it?

I forgot to screenshot, but it also has gray end caps (like a stock tank).

Edit 3: I put it into previous download which I also renamed - New Download Link

That decoupler looks great, will plan it for 0.8.1.

I m hesitant to put in many more procedural textures. In the first days of planning SETI, I installed multiple texture packs for ProceduralParts. The main result was, that it took a while to find the texture I wanted to use from within the right-click menu when assembling the craft. It would be great if there was another slider in that context menu, allowing us to select the texture pack, which would act as a parent selction to the actual texture children.

So not sure about the X200 ramake, especially details like the round parts tend to not stretch well, eg for 1.25m * 8m tanks.

Which isnt a problem for decouplers, since their aspect ratio is fixed.

The texture issue that bothered me from the beginning, was something that fits in with stock fuselage parts. My "fuselageWhite" was intended as a stop gap. It does not use a normal map, so it only fits with the stock fuselage parts "on average". Thus if the lighting is changed, its appearance does not change in the same way as normal fuselage parts.

Yemo blow it out a mod pack before what is good with 32 bit sparks like a good fit with your reblance. is it Snacks compatible i hate tac (make rockets to big) love snacks ( is more realistic and rockts look loke rockts)
Use Universal Storage or procedural TAC containers (for which you can change textures) for better looks

But no, Snacks isn't supported

Nope, not specifically Snacks compatible, might work, I do not know.

It is balanced for TAC and Universal Storage, as SwGustav pointed out. Even more so since 0.8.0. Use recyclers/water splitters if you want to bring less supplies with you. It has a learning curve, but if you get there, it works really well now!

my problem ist to found mod set what good to use with 32 bit. Will play with ,far ,remotetech 2, deadly reentry,mj(if not the man),with planet and orbit base ,planetary lunchpats.

I recommend playing with all mods listed in the OP. It works for 32bit without Active Texture Management. Even better when you use Auto Pruner! There is even room for additions. Also, maybe you want to play with KAX in the beginning, but later uninstall it (make sure no vessel uses parts from it) and replace it with Planetary Launch pads for the later game.

There are no part in tech node "hydroponics"?! i'm probably just missing a mod or part there of, but what should be in there?
Probably reserved for colonization mods

Yes, I do not like this part of the CTT progression. Anyway just regard it as "fundamental research" for the time being. It will lead to SabatierReactors (at ShortTermHabitation) and then even CarbonExtractors (at LongTermHabitation) for life support.

Edited by Yemo

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I totally agree with you on a texture mess, even though I installed all available packs (for bigger choice of design. Often hard to find the right texture, but in the end rockets are more beautiful (Like my test rocket here)).

I'm ok about X200 given how awful it is, however I'd really love if separator (and maybe simple hazard, it's just versatile) was included too.

Has plans been changed? RLA Stockalike and KSPI still in next update? If so, I shall start preparations for my career (already made a flag and some insignias in this style)

Edited by SwGustav

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I totally agree with you on a texture mess, even though I installed all available packs (for bigger choice of design. Often hard to find the right texture, but in the end rockets are more beautiful (Like my test rocket here)).

I'm ok about X200 given how awful it is, however I'd really love if separator (and maybe simple hazard, it's just versatile) was included too.

Has plans been changed? RLA Stockalike and KSPI still in next update? If so, I shall start preparations for my career (already made a flag and some insignias in this style)

Forgot the fairing base in my last reply. The problem was, that there was a massive difference in mass between the fairing base and a decoupler/separator.

Either it would make the decouplers obsolete (in terms of mass) or it would drastically increase fairing base mass, even if no decoupler function is needed. Eg if a multi adapter is used after the fairing base (for mass sat launches), it would make sense to have the separators beneath the individual sats (if arranged side by side). So the fairing base would become unnecessarily heavy without need for the decoupler function.

I m just discussing KSPI with FreeThinker.

It seems I misunderstood the development plans...

KSPIextended is going even further into 6.4 scale direction, while KSPI NF integration is intended to be more stock compatible in terms of engine/reactor performance.

So it would make much more sense to support KSPI NF integration for SETI.

Unfortunately, KSPIextended is the version which is currently developed and which has the CTT support...

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Just give it a very low decoupling force? (like, 30-20 or even lower) I don't know why would you use bases in other places, i.e. in between launcher stages. There's also a rare game-breaking bug (experienced myself) because of using bases without fairings.

Or at least give it to the base with raised surface only. Would make more sense as this one is best used for sat launches.

Edit: I can see your point. That people will use bases instead of decouplers for weight saving (but not the one with raised surface due to FAR). Is weight that seriously different? I find that kinda silly

Welp, sad news, but I didn't really need KSPI that much honestly. It just adds some gameplay aspects that would be better to experience from a new career. SO that's why I was waiting (2 mods worth starting a new career in one update - bingo). I'm ok with RLA only for now.

Edit 2: What's your view on achievement mods like Final Frontier or Achievements?

Edited by SwGustav

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