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[1.3.x] SETI, Unmanned before Manned [Patreon]


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Yeah, instead of lightning fast, comfortable and a little dirty (in terms of licences), the community now seems to favor still quick, less comfortable but clean (in terms of licenses).

There are opportunities in the second ("cleanish slate") approach as well.

We will have to wait and see.

I'm not too sure about the capabilities or availability of the server linked by Borisbee, so won't set the OP links to it. But it is fine with me as an interim source for the mods.

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Spacedock.info is the new kerbalstuff.

Website: http://spacedock.info

All downloads are (manually) available again from spacedock.info (except for "InitialContracts", which is discontinued).
The greenhouse still needs the update for USI Life support and UnmannedBeforeManned could use some checkup as well.

There will be some quirks, like mod banners not working at the moment (the mods with blank banners tried to upload a banner, the ones with default space background found out about them not working in chat :wink:) and it will take some time to fill in the information again (the descriptions on kerbalstuff were lost).again.
As I write this, there seem to be some issues with the registration emails and ckan will take some time to adjust, but at least the manual downloads are working.
If you register at spacedock.info, my new username over there is "Y3mo" (which is my username on github), if you want to follow those mods.

This is the spacedock.info chat, were people will help you with any issues:

IRC: https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.esper.net  #spacedock

 

If you want to contribute to my "coffee fund" this is my patreon page, I'm very grateful for every contribution and would like to thank my six patrons (one preferred a one time donation last month)!
 https://www.patreon.com/Yemo

Spacedock.info does not have a patreon page yet, they said in chat that for the time being all is well on th funding side and thus they concentrate on making spacedock.info and ckan work again.
If anything changes in that department, I will post a link to their patreon page here in this thread as well.

edit: This is the patreon page of @pjf, who is responsible for CKAN (only about 2$ left for his next milestone):
https://www.patreon.com/pjf0

 

SETI-Rebalance instead of SETI-BalanceMod

The change to spacedock.info gave me the opportunity to rename the SETI-BalanceMod into SETI-Rebalance (was already renamed in the file structure and so on, kerbalstuff just did not allow renaming mods). Since the now existing modules SETI-Rebalance, SETI-CommunityTechTree, SETI-Contracts and SETI-Greenhouse are the shards of the original ksp 0.90 all-in-one SETI-BalanceMod.

 

My current priority is the ckan reintegration and after that bringing the descriptions, pictures and so on back on spaceport.info.

Edited by Yemo
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CKAN reintegration done.

(the update below is not available on ckan as of this moment)

 

SETI CommunityTechTree v0.9.6.2 (for KSP 1.0.5)

Please support continued SETI maintenance & development via Patreon

SETIctt is now technically independent from CommunityTechTree

  • Thus it is now irrelevant whether CTT is installed or not
  • So changes to CTT do not automatically throw off SETIctt anymore

Node changes

  • specializedFairings attached to stability instead of advConstruction
  • Survivability more expensive - 24 science instead of 18
  • expNuclearPropulsion cheaper - 1500 science instead of 2250

Mod Support for Universal Storage

Part stat changes

  • STACK probe core lighter - now only 60kg
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On 2/12/2016 at 0:10 AM, Yemo said:

 

SETI BalanceMod v0.9.6.1 (for KSP 1.0.5)

CKAN Mod Recommendations and Suggestions

  • Additional recommendations like FilterExtensions & MechJeb+Engineer for all

@Yemo hope all is well with you. I have waited out on commenting on the recent changes whilst the community handles the loss of Kerbal stuff. We don't have to worry too much about this as CKAN scrape bot is already redirected.

I noticed that you where going to add a recommendation for MechJeb+Engineer for all. This is indeed highly recommended as it protects .craft files if Mechjeb is later removed or corrupted because it does not use any extra parts. 

It might be worth me mentioning again that this overwrites the standard Mechjeb progression using a FINAL statement. So the recent removal of Mechjeb technology progression will be undone by users that install this. It will take Mechjeb back out of sandbox mode and restore tech tree unlocking. 

I don't see a problem with this for users that understand the progression system. It is very easy to use this mod to tweak Mechjeb progression config file to personal taste. However those that still want the unrestricted access that we put into SETI as default. Whilst not wishing to change the config file. Might find easier to avoid  MechJeb+Engineer for all.

 

Edited by nobodyhasthis2
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2 hours ago, nobodyhasthis2 said:

@Yemo hope all is well with you. I have waited out on commenting on the recent changes whilst the community handles the loss of Kerbal stuff. We don't have to worry too much about this as CKAN scrape bot is already redirected.

I noticed that you where going to add a recommendation for MechJeb+Engineer for all. This is indeed highly recommended as it protects .craft files if Mechjeb is later removed or corrupted because it does not use any extra parts. 

It might be worth me mentioning again that this overwrites the standard Mechjeb progression using a FINAL statement. So the recent removal of Mechjeb technology progression will be undone by users that install this. It will take Mechjeb back out of sandbox mode and restore tech tree unlocking. 

I don't see a problem with this for users that understand the progression system. It is very easy to use this mod to tweak Mechjeb progression config file to personal taste. However those that still want the unrestricted access that we put into SETI as default. Whilst not wishing to change the config file. Might find easier to avoid  MechJeb+Engineer for all.

All is well, due to the fast reaction of the community, the kerbalstuff crisis was a short one. However the effects on ckan and thus meta-mod-packs will last much longer.

Hm, those are some very good points. I removed the recommendation and will incorporate those configs into SETIrebalance. Makes sense anyway, as you wrote. We could then also hide the mech jeb and kerbal engineer cases, thus preventing people from using them while keeping them working on existing craft. The AR-202 is not very balanced anyway, since it also works as an extremely light and energy-efficient probe core.

 

edit: Oh, and I will link the ckan recommendations and suggestions and so in the OP, so that everyone can see them.

 

Hotfix for SETIctt because I forgot to include a remote tech patch for the stack probe core:

 

SETI CommunityTechTree v0.9.6.3 (for KSP 1.0.5)

Fixes

  • STACK probe core remote tech patch included
Edited by Yemo
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A quick observation in regard to procedural probe cores. Mine also appear to be fuel tanks. Now I don't know if this down to having interstellar fuel switch or just down to procedural parts.This means I could either make them batteries or store fuel in them. Now this does add weight but feels a bit odd. I normally leave them as structural parts only but wonder if the was intentional use in SETI?

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16 hours ago, nobodyhasthis2 said:

A quick observation in regard to procedural probe cores. Mine also appear to be fuel tanks. Now I don't know if this down to having interstellar fuel switch or just down to procedural parts.This means I could either make them batteries or store fuel in them. Now this does add weight but feels a bit odd. I normally leave them as structural parts only but wonder if the was intentional use in SETI?

Hm, that must be something interstellar fuel switch does, there should only be the structural and battery option. I guess that the dry mass is totally off for a fuel tank, it is definately not intentional.

 

Spacedock.info descriptions were augmented by some images and text again.

Also I just asked for closure of the SETI-Greenhouse thread and moved support over here. I guess at some point I ll have to fix that USI LifeSupport config...

And in addition to the small update for SETIrebalance regarding mech jeb and engineer, I could take another look at UnmannedBeforeManned. Especially before the more radical changes to SETIctt...

 

But overall it looks like SETI (with the SETIrebalance CKAN mod pack) is as good (though somewhat different) as SETI was just before 1.0 crushed it, so I guess it is time for 1.1 to crush it again ;-)...

Edited by Yemo
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It is most probably faulty install somewhere. I was just make a quick run from last update, so I didn't checked everything in game.

If you have installed trough CKAN, try to deinstall SETI and all dependencies, check out that you have properly deleted all mod folder that you have installed. If some mod write config file in folder or similar CKAN is unable to properly uninstall it and can sometimes be a source of issue.

After you have checked that everything is uninstalled properly, you can install everything again trough CKAN or manual install.

Another issue you might get is that you have already started career with previous version of SETIctt or even stock tech tree and that may cause to have odd part placements trough tech tree.

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7 hours ago, Lan_Morehell said:

Hi everyone!

I have a small problem with SETI in 1.0.5..

I don't see neither RT-10 hammer nor MechJeb which should be available at the start according to the tech tree... The only engine available for me is KESTES-1. I also don't see batteries :( What could it be?

Yep, as @kcs123 said it is most likely an install issue and his solution will most likely fix it.

If it does not go away, please provide a screenshot of your GameData folder.

 

The SETIgreenhouse update is nearly ready as well.

 

SETI Rebalance v0.9.6.2 (for KSP 1.0.5)

Mech Jeb & Engineer partless, thank you @nobodyhasthis2

  • Please uninstall the mod "MechJeb and Engineer for all!"
  • SETIrebalance now provides those MM patches as well
  • The MechJeb and KerbalEngineer parts are hidden in VAB/SPH, since their function is no longer required
  • They are still available at start, so previous designs continue to work
Edited by Yemo
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One minor bug report. The attachment nodes on the stackable Science Jr materials bay are wrong when both SETI & Ven's are installed. Stock has:

        node_stack_top = 0.0, 4.9, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0
        node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -4.10, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0

Ven's changes the model and has:

        @node_stack_top = 0.0, .49, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0
        @node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -.41, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0

But SETI overwrites the Y coordinates back to the stock values when adding size parameter so attachment nodes end up far from the part.

//---SC-9001 Science Jr.
@PART[science_module]:FOR[SETIrebalance]
{
   @node_stack_top = 0.0, 4.9, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0
   @node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -4.10, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 0

Was easy enough to fix up in my install but flagging it since Ven's is on the recommended list.

Edited by bos
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@bos: Thank you very much! I did not check my configs, because I knew there was a problem with VenStockRevamp itself. But that only affected the radial attachment.

It seems like Ven changed the model parameters since I last looked at it (I prefer the radial version). It should work now (I also fixed the radial issue since Ven probably does not release an update before 1.1).

 

Also included were some changes which were meant for the next major update. And while at it I also updated SETIctt, the affected parts are now unlocked roughly in the order which is planned for the next major SETIctt version (but without the new nodes and node shifts, eg PrecisionPropulsion is scheduled to be moved to the 45 science level and thus right after the new LV-1 unlock).

 

SETI CommunityTechTree v0.9.6.4 (for KSP 1.0.5)

Part Position Changes

  • LV-1 much earlier @generalRocketry
  • LV-T45 earlier @generalRocketry
  • LV-900 later @advRocketry
  • Sepratron & SnubOTron earlier @generalRocketry

 

SETI Rebalance v0.9.6.3 (for KSP 1.0.5)

Fixed materials bay, thank you very much, bos

Rebalances

  • Command pod masses rebalanced again (mainly lander cans lighter)
  • Reaction Wheels on lander cans nerfed
  • Battery costs reduced in line with procedural battery
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Whoops, made a mistake with the SETIctt 0.9.6.4 packaging, thank you twitch streamer CaptainCook86 for noticing!

It is fixed in the next version, but everyone who installed SETIctt 0.9.6.4 has to delete the SETIctt folder in their GameData folder before updating.

SETI CommunityTechTree v0.9.6.5 (for KSP 1.0.5)

ATTENTION: Please delete your SETIctt folder before updating, there was a left over dev version in 0.9.6.4, which messes things up

 

DEV version of new tech tree

And for everyone interested, the packaging mistake was, that I left a dev version of the planned new SETIctt tech tree in the directory. If you want to take a look at it, download SETIctt 0.9.6.4 (SETIctt on spacedock.info go to changelog, where you can download older versions). Directly within the SETIctt folder you find a "SETI-CommunityTechTree.cfg" (80KB). Cut and paste that into the MM-CTT subfolder and replace the file in there (71KB).

It is just the latest dev version of the planned new tech tree structure. No parts are reassigned so far.

 

edit: And that is how the dev tech tree looks like:

* starts with 5 instead of 3 options, batteries and experiments have their own node, as well as decouplers
* continues with 7 instead of 3 options, LV-1 & Sepratrons, Fairings, additional aero parts, and mystery goo + solar have own nodes
* precisionPropulsion moved from 160 science to 45 science
* Ion engine line starts from nukes instead of an electric node
* rover wheels and landing lines are merged
* the whole space stations and colonization line is below the command pods line and after life support
* the storage nodes (which were at the very bottom) are now 1 science nodes from the fuel tanks
* other 1 science nodes fitted in between to extend from the fuel tank nodes (when released, they will be hidden if empty)

jF9YVVr.png

Edited by Yemo
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20 hours ago, Yemo said:

ATTENTION: Please delete your SETIctt folder before updating, there was a left over dev version in 0.9.6.4, which messes things up

@Yemo thanks for the fast update. That was awesome.

May I please ask a question that is a non SETI related. What would happen if the end user does not delete the folder prior updating in CKAN?

The reason I am asking is I have just raised an issue in CKAN asking about this. As user error may be giving mod authors unwelcomed problems. See https://github.com/KSP-CKAN/CKAN/issues/1610. In the past where users have reported errors. I feel we frequently have to advise users properly uninstall the old folders. I know @kcs123 has just recently just done this. Could you please have a look at the issue report and see if it has any value from the point of view of a mod author?

Thank you :)   

Edited by nobodyhasthis2
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It is offtopic for SETI, but it is on topic for above comment. I think it will be better to remove uninstalled folder. Main concern from CKAN staff were to be carefull to not delete any user custom settings for regarding that mod. But that cause more issues than it solves.

Some compromise might be to instead of deleting folder, CKAN move that folder in <KSP_install>\CKAN\ModBackups\ or something similar.

If user install same mod again it can prompt a question to user that he have some backed up data for that mod and ask user to manually install this. That way everybody will be happy - less likely that something will be broke due to faulty uninstall and user still have his own personal data backed up. Although I will be happy even without backup, if I have some complicated mod files that I want to re-apply, I will back up that by myself.

Might be a good idea to create new thread for self help in cases of faulty installs. Recently I come across to numerous cases of faulty installs - both, by CKAN and trough manual installs with various mods.

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@nobodyhasthis2, @kcs123: I will have to think about that issue, will then write in the linked github "thread".

 

And finally a new version of the greenhouse, with totally reworked USI Life Support. Might not be too balanced, please provide feedback!

 

SETI Greenhouse v0.9.5 (for KSP 1.0.5)

USI Life Support

  • Total rework for USI Life Support after the big change
  • Now contains recycler for 1 or 3 kerbals, cutting supply needs in half
  • Agroponics module is able to reuse the mulch of 1 or 3 kerbals + 10% margin

Some EC/s adjustments

 

I already looked at Unmanned before Manned again and found it to be just differently confusing than stock. Since SETIctt is becoming more "specialized" with the control progression and the planned new tech tree layout, I think UbM could fill in the gap between stock and SETIctt. But that would require a real rework of UbM both in terms of scope and actual part placement.

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SETI Rebalance v0.9.6.4 (for KSP 1.0.5)

Special compatibility with Unmanned Before Manned

  • Mystery goo and materials bay are collectible when UbM is installed
  • MechJeb and Kerbal Engineer parts are not hidden when UbM is installed
  • Though they are still not necessary, just to avoid questions if someone misses them...

Probe Core compatibility

  • Early probe cores have SAS based on installed mods
  • Nothing changes for SETIctt, but for UbM and in case neither is installed

Rudimentary compatibility with FASA

  • Mainly concerning early pods and probes
  • Though the early probes still have reaction wheels if UbM is installed

 

Unmanned before Manned v1.0.5 (for KSP 1.0.5)

Complete reboot of the mod

  • CKAN meta mod packs (recommendations and suggestions)
  • 3 clutter nodes for structural parts, modular wings and TAC Life Support
  • It adjusts parts from many mods for the early career (eg RemoteTech)

Special SETIrebalance compatibility

  • Mystery goo and materials bay are still collectible if you install SETIrebalance

 

HbE4VJH.png

.

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On 2/10/2016 at 11:34 AM, Yemo said:

 

While the "struggle for control" in the early career is intentional, it is not intended to be this long/problematic.

The intended progression is:

1. start: No control, but fins for stability
2. earlyAviation 6 science: (TweakScaleable) control surfaces, like winglets
3. stability 16 science: RCS thrusters, stock linear RCS port and the all inclusive block from VenStockRevamp
4. generalRocketry 20 science: Gimbal on upper stage engine LV-900 from VenStockRevamp
5. advancedRocketry 45 science: Gimbal on lower stage engine LV-T45
6. advFlightControl 90 science: Reaction wheels

I guess you do not have VenStockRevamp installed (which is recommended since it fills many gaps in the stock part catalogue) and missed the stock linear RCS port in the stability tech node?

The tumble at 200m/s is a sign of asymmetric rockets and/or improper thrust to weight ratio combined with a lack of fins. Some early real life rockets used spin-stabilisation, which can be induced by slightly tilting the fins, though fins alone should be sufficient to keep the rocket flying straight. The fins are tweakscaleable. though even a rocket without fins with a small gimbal should be ok, as long as the thrust to weight ratio is not too extreme in either direction.

So it is not that bad, but I kind of envy you for the experience of trying to grind to 45 science without any control ;-).

A couple things that might help here. Is this the mod that takes away mono-propellant from command pods? If so, it should be add back especially for providing early reentry control.  

Onto VenStockRevamp. I really love how VenStockRevamp looks, however, it is fairly buggy in terms of attachment nodes, rover bodies, etc. Maybe it shouldn't be relied upon to "fill in the gaps" in seti-rebalance.

Thoughts?

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20 minutes ago, blnk2007 said:

A couple things that might help here. Is this the mod that takes away mono-propellant from command pods? If so, it should be add back especially for providing early reentry control.  

Onto VenStockRevamp. I really love how VenStockRevamp looks, however, it is fairly buggy in terms of attachment nodes, rover bodies, etc. Maybe it shouldn't be relied upon to "fill in the gaps" in seti-rebalance.

Thoughts?

It takes away the monoprop from the Mk1 command pod, since VenStockRevamp adds a special monoprop tank + RCS all-in-one part intended to go on top of it (like the real life mercury capsule).

Many other command pods have increased monoprop.

There are so many gaps filled by VenStockRevamp and the graphics are so much better, that I regard it as "standard" as StockBugFixModules and KerbalEngineer.
Mk1 all-in-one rcs block, working RCS thrusters on the Mk1-2 pod, 0.625m heat shield for probes, the early LV-T15 engine, a surface attachable LV-1, 0.625m boosters, longer ladders, and so on...

I did not encounter severe bugs with the current version, though I have not used the rover body in a long time...

Edited by Yemo
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4 minutes ago, Yemo said:

It takes away the monoprop from the Mk1 command pod, since VenStockRevamp adds a special monoprop tank + RCS all-in-one part intended to go on top of it (like the real life mercury capsule).

Many other comamnd pods have increased monoprop.

There are so many gaps filled by VenStockRevamp and the graphics are so much better, that I regard it as "standard" as StockBugFixModules and KerbalEngineer.
Mk1 all-in-one rcs block, working RCS thrusters on the Mk1-2 pod, 0.625m heat shield for probes, the early LV-T15 engine, a surface attachable LV-1, 0.625m boosters, longer ladders, and so on...

I did not encounter severe bugs with the current version, though I have not used the rover body in a long time...

That does sound good. I just feel like I am being forced into using Ven's.

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10 minutes ago, Yemo said:

It takes away the monoprop from the Mk1 command pod, since VenStockRevamp adds a special monoprop tank + RCS all-in-one part intended to go on top of it (like the real life mercury capsule).

Many other comamnd pods have increased monoprop.

There are so many gaps filled by VenStockRevamp and the graphics are so much better, that I regard it as "standard" as StockBugFixModules and KerbalEngineer.
Mk1 all-in-one rcs block, working RCS thrusters on the Mk1-2 pod, 0.625m heat shield for probes, the early LV-T15 engine, a surface attachable LV-1, 0.625m boosters, longer ladders, and so on...

I did not encounter severe bugs with the current version, though I have not used the rover body in a long time...

5 minutes ago, blnk2007 said:

That does sound good. I just feel like I am being forced into using Ven's.

Rover body bug coming in from  Dr. Jet's Chop Shop v0.8.0.1. but caused by a mistake in Ven's Stock Revamp. There is a detailed explanation on the Dr. Jet's Chop Shop thread on a fix. 

Same kind of problem that we had with 9001 Science bay really. Easy solution is to take out the corrupted part of Ven's Stock Revamp but leave the rest. It is rather good.

Edited by nobodyhasthis2
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1 minute ago, nobodyhasthis2 said:

Rover body bug coming in from  Dr. Jet's Chop Shop v0.8.0.1. but caused by a mistake in Ven's Stock Revamp. There is a detailed explanation on the Dr. Jet's Chop Shop thread on a fix. 

Same kind of problem that we had with 9001 Science bay really. Easy solution is to take out the corrupted part of Ven's Stock Revamp but leave the rest. It is rather good.

What is the science bay bug? 

OFF TOPIC: Does anyone know if Ven's and RLA stockalike are compatible?

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7 minutes ago, blnk2007 said:

That does sound good. I just feel like I am being forced into using Ven's.

It is less the actual SETIctt forcing you into Ven's it is more your choice of using a tech tree which starts with probes and squads choice to not provide suitable parts for that.

Makes no sense to not have a 0.625m heat shield, surface attachable LV-1 and 0.625m boosters.

edit:

3 minutes ago, nobodyhasthis2 said:

Rover body bug coming in from  Dr. Jet's Chop Shop v0.8.0.1. but caused by a mistake in Ven's Stock Revamp. There is a detailed explanation on the Dr. Jet's Chop Shop thread on a fix. 

Same kind of problem that we had with 9001 Science bay really. Easy solution is to take out the corrupted part of Ven's Stock Revamp but leave the rest. It is rather good.

Ah, did not know that, thank you!

 

1 minute ago, blnk2007 said:

What is the science bay bug? 

OFF TOPIC: Does anyone know if Ven's and RLA stockalike are compatible?

There was a major problem with the attachment after VenStockRevamp changed the model, especially with SETIrebalance. It was fixed one or two pages before this one.

RLA stockalike has many really nice parts, unfortunately some of them are so unbalanced that it just breaks gameplay balance. Especially those monoprop engines are ridiculous with their ISP values...

Edited by Yemo
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I require a bit of help here, please. So, I am not sure how to fix the Science Jr. observation bay, i read the previous post where the guy had the issue too but i can't find the fix anywhere. And also, can I revert the new (old) Mk1 Inline cockpit to the default one ? I like the newer one and TAC life support can't find any resources in the retro Mk1 Inline cockpit, so how can i change it to the vanilla one ? EDIT: Ok I found the fix for the Science bay.

Edited by Antonio432
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