Ramjet hybrid SSTO challenge

[GoSlash27]

All,

I made a "new" part to try to rebalance the game a bit by converting the stock turbojet into a ramjet.

It works pretty much the same as it always has with one important difference: The engine won't produce thrust below Mach 1.

The download and additional info here

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/106156-I-made-a-ramjet!?p=1649423#post1649423

So now the challenge:

Build the best hybrid SSTO spaceplane you can without the RAPIER or turbojet.

Tha rulez:

-No dropping parts

-No RAPIERS and no turbojets

-No standard "cheaty" stuff.

-No intake spamming. This is defined as clipping to fit more intakes.

-I don't think FAR will know what to do with this part, but you're welcome to try.

-Entries should be able to orbit, dock, transfer payload, deorbit, and return to KSC runway.

Entries will be scored by price, economy (cost in supplies/ mass of payload to orbit), and overall "cool factor". All entrants are encouraged to rate other entries in cool factor.

Good luck!

-Slashy

Leaderboards

Bargain Basement

1)

2)

3)

Cheap Hauler

1)

2)

3)

Cool Factor

1)

2)

3)

[chengong]

define "best"

the stock turbo jet is OP enough to make SSTOs easily, blindfolded, so I don't quite understand this.

Edited January 4, 2015 by chengong

[GoSlash27]

define "best"

See the rules.

the stock turbo jet is OP enough to make SSTOs easily, blindfolded, so I don't quite understand this.

Exactly. That's why I did this; it's too easy with the stock turbojet. What can you do when the stock turbojet and RAPIER are off limits?

Best,

-Slashy

[numerobis]

It's actually a bit tricky to get a large plane up to speed on basic jets. I built a 2-engine, 32-passenger plane but going to Mach 1 is beyond its abilities. Maybe I need a third engine.

[GoSlash27]

It's actually a bit tricky to get a large plane up to speed on basic jets. I built a 2-engine, 32-passenger plane but going to Mach 1 is beyond its abilities. Maybe I need a third engine.

This is harder than I expected it to be.... Still trying to establish orbit.

[numerobis]

I'm landing. But I forgot to bring solar panels, so I only have a sub-orbit (Pe at high atmosphere, but not above it).

- - - Updated - - -

I also didn't sell any seats on my plane, so it's the pilot, co-pilot, flight engineer, and flight attendant -- but no passengers. I can't imagine why.

[GoSlash27]

Orbit established. I have my proof of concept, so hopefully I'll have a complete mission tomorrow. I've got room for 8 passengers and it'll probably be over $40,000 before it's ready.

/That *sucked* !

-Slashy

Edited January 5, 2015 by GoSlash27

[numerobis]

Docking? Not so much. But it's a pretty bird, so I share it with you:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

I had to mostly empty the Mk3 adapter, and I had to remove 150 units from each of the basic jet. Also, I needed two big control wheels to counter the off-axis thrust from the Poodle out back. This is not my most practical jet ever (heck, it's got a nose cone!) -- however, it's definitely my prettiest ever.

The power plants are: two basic jets, two ramjets, and the poodle. Fly on basic jets to about 12km, 275 m/s. Then you top out and are about to fall; light the poodle to boost yourself to 300 m/s, ramjet ignition time. Then turn the poodle back off.

Turn off the basic jets at about 600 m/s, fly on ramjets to about 40 km, 1700 m/s, then use the poodle to finish it up.

Edited January 5, 2015 by numerobis

[GoSlash27]

Docking? Not so much. But it's a pretty bird, so I share it with you:

http://imgur.com/a/4okTU

Much more difficult this way. The RAPIER is actually attractive.

I look forward to seeing you complete a shuttle mission with it!

Best,

-Slashy

[numerobis]

I like the ramjet concept, so you need a lot of thrust from basic jets before lighting it. Slapping two turbojets on that plane would have been so easy by comparison.

Mostly I just wanted to try out the Mk3 parts. The plane is about 37t on the runway after draining the mono prop tank, most of the Mk3 adapter, and half the short Mk2 that the basic jets are on (for a second run I'd drain the ramjet tanks too, and add solar panels). So getting just a pair of jets to power it is a nice trick.

[GoSlash27]

First attempt was a bust.

I established orbit and deorbited/landed fine, but it really doesn't have the DV necessary for orbital intercept and rendezvous. I need to deliver my Kerbals to the station, not just take them sight-seeing.

I have room to plug in more oxidizer and fuel, but it's also right on the edge as it is for t/w and wing loading, so I may need a complete redesign.

Best,

-Slashy

[Pds314]

Problem is that damned-near anything is an SSTO in stock. I've gotten pure-aerospike, no ions, no nukes, no jets, planes to orbit stock, and with FAR, I even got very... ahem.... "special" plane into orbit. (By special, I mean it was basically a Mk 3 cockpit, a long Mk3 tank, 2 LFBs, 3 mainsails, some little wings, a nosecone and some landing gears) into orbit. It had a takeoff speed of around Mach 1, and after that, I actually had to throttle down to prevent the utterly insane 8.5 MegaNewtons of thrust from causing aerodynamic failures, even with prograde locked. In the air, 'Z' is essentially the self-destruct button.

[GoSlash27]

Problem is that damned-near anything is an SSTO in stock. I've gotten pure-aerospike, no ions, no nukes, no jets, planes to orbit stock, and with FAR, I even got very... ahem.... "special" plane into orbit. (By special, I mean it was basically a Mk 3 cockpit, a long Mk3 tank, 2 LFBs, 3 mainsails, some little wings, a nosecone and some landing gears) into orbit. It had a takeoff speed of around Mach 1, and after that, I actually had to throttle down to prevent the utterly insane 8.5 MegaNewtons of thrust from causing aerodynamic failures, even with prograde locked. In the air, 'Z' is essentially the self-destruct button.

This is all true, but this competition isn't about merely making an SSTO. It's about making an affordable , safe, and economical SSTO that's useful for delivering payload to orbit.

The difficulty is in not using turbojets or RAPIERs to do it.

I have supplied a ramjet (which is proving difficult so far), but nobody says you have to use it. If you'd prefer to use aerospikes or mainsails/ whatever, I'm curious to see what you come up with.

Best,

-Slashy

[chengong]

No SSTO is useful for deliverer cargo to orbit because you never need to deliver cargo to orbit. And all designs are safe with the revert button.

[Hodo]

I built a working SSTO in RO that was a pure rocket design, it was powered by 6 linear aerospike engines and weighed in at over 300tons sitting on the runway.

I am sure I could repeat the design in a stock Kerbin size with FAR. Honestly it isn't that hard to make an SSTO in stock KSP because of the small scale of the atmosphere. I have built quite a few SSTOs that dont use RAPIERs/SABREs. And they were quite cost affective. Total mission cost would be measured in the hundreds vs the cost of thousands to launch a satellite. I think my low cost SSTO challange the total cost to put a space station in orbit that weighed in over 200 tons when done was less than a few thousand. Not including the cost of the station itself.

- - - Updated - - -

No SSTO is useful for deliverer cargo to orbit because you never need to deliver cargo to orbit. And all designs are safe with the revert button.

I removed my revert button. Killed 4 kerbals so far... one catastrophic failure of a wing in a test flight. One crewman survived the bailout and deployed his chute to live 4 others did not make it.

[Kesa]

even without FAR, stock ssto are doable with purely rocket engine. Aeorspike is probably the best choice, but a tier 0 SSTO is doable with the lvt30, and the good amount of fuel. and with 3 chutes it can safely land on water. I'll put pic if I find the save.

And my SSTOs using basic jets go at at least 400 m/s on flameout (one engine for 6 to 8 t, but I guess I *can* put more), so using the scramjet shouldn't be a problem, but I'll stay on the basic jet way.

btw, I was precisely searching a challenge like this one, thanks!

Edited January 8, 2015 by Kesa
forgot one word (can)

[GoSlash27]

even without FAR, stock ssto are doable with purely rocket engine. Aeorspike is probably the best choice, but a tier 0 SSTO is doable with the lvt30, and the good amount of fuel. and with 3 chutes it can safely land on water. I'll put pic if I find the save.

And my SSTOs using basic jets go at at least 400 m/s on flameout (one engine for 6 to 8 t, but I guess I put more), so using the scramjet shouldn't be a problem, but I'll stay on the basic jet way.

btw, I was precisely searching a challenge like this one, thanks!

Kesa,

Pure rocket SSTOs are very do-able; I've made plenty.

I look forward to seeing what you come up with. Remember that it will be ranked by cost to produce and operate, and must be capable of delivery to a station in LKO with return to KSC.

Best,

-Slashy

[Kesa]

Kesa,

Pure rocket SSTOs are very do-able; I've made plenty.

I look forward to seeing what you come up with. Remember that it will be ranked by cost to produce and operate, and must be capable of delivery to a station in LKO with return to KSC.

Best,

-Slashy

How, I missed the part about playload and such. You should clarify the scoring system. If I well understand it, bargain basement is about just getting to orbit and cheap hauler is having the most cost effective cargo ssto? Bargain basement should at least require the ssto to be manned, or the challenge will be very limited (a probe core, a champotron jr, a rocko 48 7s and just the good amount of fuel. Maybe a chute, maybe not, and a spoon more fuel to say it's a refueling SSTO).

Anyway, here are two of my SSTOs I find cool :

Can put 1.7 t of fuel into orbit, or 1.2t tons of cargo. no docking port yet. 20 parts, and <18t fully loaaded

No docking port yet, no playload, but has just what it takes to rescue/retrieve a Kerbal from LKO.

I do not intend to push them as entries until I know more precisely what kind of SSTO you had in mind. I guess mine are more for bargain basement (unless one can build a station with 1.2t modules )

Edited January 8, 2015 by Kesa

[bhauth]

Here's what I got:

http://imgur.com/a/vQI52

(Mechjeb wasn't needed at all.)

[GoSlash27]

How, I missed the part about playload and such. You should clarify the scoring system. If I well understand it, bargain basement is about just getting to orbit and cheap hauler is having the most cost effective cargo ssto? Bargain basement should at least require the ssto to be manned, or the challenge will be very limited (a probe core, a champotron jr, a rocko 48 7s and just the good amount of fuel. Maybe a chute, maybe not, and a spoon more fuel to say it's a refueling SSTO).

Anyway, here are two of my SSTOs I find cool :

http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/544139766577619939/E2FAA0F5BDF8832EE356FF9E4121525F78B0FCCE/

Can put 1.7 t of fuel into orbit, or 1.2t tons of cargo. no docking port yet. 20 parts, and <18t fully loaaded

http://i.imgur.com/phxpZTK.png

No docking port yet, no playload, but has just what it takes to rescue/retrieve a Kerbal from LKO.

I do not intend to push them as entries until I know more precisely what kind of SSTO you had in mind. I guess mine are more for bargain basement (unless one can build a station with 1.2t modules )

Kesa,

Both categories are about delivering cargo to a space station in orbit. "Bargain basement" scores them by cost to build, while "cheap hauler" scores them by cost to operate.

The first entry would be disqualified on the grounds of infinigliding, but it certainly looks like it could be upgraded to fit within the rules.

Best,

-Slashy

- - - Updated - - -

Here's what I got:

http://imgur.com/a/vQI52

(Mechjeb wasn't needed at all.)

bhauth,

I like the minimalist approach you've taken here

Remember, it needs to be able to dock with a station in orbit and deliver cargo.

Best,

-Slashy