If Laythe was real

[Commander Jebidiah]

So if Laythe were real what would its tides be like with interference from Vall, Tylo and Jool

[Dkmdlb]

It would make Miller's planet look like a reflection pond.

[Bill Phil]

It would be a very salty place.

Quick question: is earth dependent on the salinity of oceans to keep them at suitable temperature?

[Armchair Rocket Scientist]

It would be a very salty place.

Quick question: is earth dependent on the salinity of oceans to keep them at suitable temperature?

Not really. The amount of salt in our oceans is only enough to lower the freezing point by about 2 degrees centigrade. This combined with density effects definitely affects our climate, but it's not required for planetary habitability.

What really stops the oceans from freezing is the fact that water ice (at least ice Ih, which is the phase encountered at temperatures and pressures found on Earth's surface) is less dense than liquid water, making the oceans take much, MUCH longer to freeze than if sea ice sank and exposed the warmest water on the top of the water column.

There is, however, an effect where fresh water has a density maximum at 4-5 *C above freezing, which effectively prevents ice from forming on freshwater until the entire water column is that cold. This is not the case for seawater, which is densest at its freezing point. This makes it even harder to get bodies of freshwater down to 0 *C, but as mentioned saltwater has a lower freezing point.

These phenomena almost certainly have huge effects on the pattern of currents in our oceans, but Earth is warm enough that our oceans would remain liquid at basically any salinity.

[Brotoro]

The difference in gravitational acceleration caused by our Moon across the diameter of the Earth is about 2.2x10^-6 (which is about twice the value caused by our Sun).

The difference in gravitational acceleration caused by Vall across the diameter of the Laythe during closest approach is about 1.02x10^-4 ...which is about 46 times larger than the Moon's tides on the Earth.

The difference in gravitational acceleration caused by Tylo across the diameter of the Laythe during closest approach is about 8.01x10^-5 ...which is about 36 times larger than the Moon's tides on the Earth.

So things would be REALLY fun on Laythe if Vall and Tylo align in the sky opposite Jool (but if Squad has the orbital resonances of Laythe, Vall, and Tylo set up the same way as Io, Europa, and Ganymede, then Vall and Tylo could never both be in opposition to Jool at the same time, so the worst-case scenario could not occur).

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Also note that tides in Laythe's oceans would not be like the high/low tides we see on Earth. On Earth, the oceans bulge upward on the sides of the Earth facing toward and away from the Moon (let's ignore the solar tides for now...also, the tidal bulges do not face directly toward or away from the direction of the Moon because the rotation of the Earth carries them to an equilibrium position off to the side of the direct Earth-Moon line). Places on Earth experience high and low tides as the Earth's rotation carries those places through the tidal bulges and the low tide areas 90 degrees from the bulges. The alignment line of the bulges slowly shifts as our Moon moves in its orbit.

On Laythe, which is tidally locked to Jool, the highest tide bulges would form (during oppositions of Vall and Tylo; opposition relative to Jool, that is...when each moon is directly opposite from Jool in the sky of Laythe) at the same places on Laythe all the time: the sub-Jool location and the spot 180 degrees away from Jool. The belt on Laythe 90 degrees away from the Jool-Laythe line would only experience massive LOW tides during oppositions with Vall and Tylo. This belt of lowest tides runs all the way around Laythe from the north pole, to the forward facing point relative to Laythe's orbital motion on Laythe's equator, to the south pole, and back up through the equator at the trailing point.

The high tide points will move from east to west along Laythe's equator as the outer moons approach opposition, but they'll grow to their maximum size quite quickly at the points directly toward and away from Jool when the outer moon passes through opposition.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Brotoro

[DMSP]

If Laythe was real.....

I would go crazy. A habitable world!

[smartech]

Tides would make a wonderful gaming experience. Imagine being safe to land only above 500m ASL because otherwise your lander/rover/base gets washed away and destroyed by a giant tidal wave. Must collect the beach science very quickly before the next one comes. Maybe wait for a particularly large ebb so that more science from the bottom can be collected. Extra science for surf-boarding.

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Maybe even once in a while a dead Kraken would wash up and you can study it only before the next tide collects it back into the ocean.

[NovaSilisko]

A habitable world!

Kinda. Didn't have the chance to bring it to fruition, but my original future plans for Laythe were to make it intensely volcanic, with lots and lots of radiation from the van allen belts around Jool. Basically Io if Io had oceans and an atmosphere over top of its hideous volcanic surface.

[lajoswinkler]

Kinda. Didn't have the chance to bring it to fruition, but my original future plans for Laythe were to make it intensely volcanic, with lots and lots of radiation from the van allen belts around Jool. Basically Io if Io had oceans and an atmosphere over top of its hideous volcanic surface.

So why was such plan abandoned? It's a great plan and players obviously want it.

[Brotoro]

Volcanism? Yes, that would be excellent. Active caldera, geysers, mudpots, bubbling ocean areas from sub-surface vents...that would be fantastic.

Lots and lots of radiation? Do NOT want. What fun would it be to have an inviting celestial body to play on, only to have it be awash in deadly radiation that would fry your poor kerbals. This would NOT be fun.

Huge tides that change in a systematic way would also be fun.