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[1.4.*] [2.5.3] (2018-04-06) UbioZur Welding Ltd. Continued


girka2k
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Is it a glitch, or expected behavior when using the "part tree" button in the Welding UI and control-clicking on a the root part of what you want to weld together? (i.e. this might be PEBKAC issue)

Link to the .craft files:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8opBfkYYvf3YnZLMGxQdWZkNXM&usp=sharing

It was an accepted risk I took when implementing it, as the solution was not totally clear at that moment.

But as I said, I'm working on it.

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It was an accepted risk I took when implementing it, as the solution was not totally clear at that moment.

But as I said, I'm working on it.

Ah, so PEBKAC on my part -- that's a good thing. I keep forgetting that in 0.90 you no longer have to start building with a command pod or probe core.

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Could you add some way to weld in the flight scene?
Lower station part count without having to redo the entire thing.

This kind of thing is way way way more complex than just enabling the same kind of functionality in the flight scene. To achieve this effect would require extensive editing of the save file, and a much much much more intelligent process to do the actual welding itself, it would have to accurately place the parts every time, effectively decide what MODULEs to include/delete/combine, among a nu,ber of other things that would be very difficult to achieve.

Anything that involves extensive editing of the save file is definitely best left to do by hand, and even then the results are never 100% predictable.

To achieve the desired effect I would recommend reconstructing the station in the editor, welding it together as a whole or a few separate chunks, edit the part file because anything this big is going to end up really messy and need some touching up, and then hyperediting them into the same orbit as the original, this can't really be considered as cheating since you did already launch and construct the station :wink:

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After putting the EL_CONFIG.cfg from MKS/OKS back into place, I tried welding a couple of the parts that it modifies. The welding process gets a bit further, but does not allow me to continue.

Also, when exiting the VAB I am once again in the odd camera angle next to the VAB facing the SPH.

welding-211-unresearchable-nobuttons.png

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After putting the EL_CONFIG.cfg from MKS/OKS back into place, I tried welding a couple of the parts that it modifies. The welding process gets a bit further, but does not allow me to continue.

Also, when exiting the VAB I am once again in the odd camera angle next to the VAB facing the SPH.

Well, thank you for testing!

It looks like it's time for me to install RoverDude's MKS/OKS and test it myself.

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Well, thank you for testing!

It looks like it's time for me to install RoverDude's MKS/OKS and test it myself.

Keep in mind that I think I first got those parts from EPL+Karbonite:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/89774-90-%28V-25%29-ExtraPlanetary-Launchpads%28EPL%29-Regolith-Adaptation-%281-10-15%29

I don't know if that will make a difference.

On another note, I welded together this part (click for link to .cfg file):

welded-SS-thrust-structure.png

And then discovered that the attachment nodes on the ends have problems.

* Symmetrical placement does not work. I tried putting Clamp-O-Tron Sr. ports on the tops and bottoms of the ends of the 'arms' (where you see the appropriate-sized adapters), and had to place them one-by-one instead of being able to place one and replicate it with 4-way symmetry. The same applies to normal Clamp-O-Tron ports attached to the outermost nodes on the very ends of the arms - they had to be placed one at a time.

* I could not attach anything to the sides of the ends. The 'green balls' appear there, but dragging a part near them does not cause the usual 'snap' to that point. I can sometimes get a part to attach by placing it near the desired point and then using the Offset and Rotate tools to 'push' it into place, but sometimes those aren't enough.

This is the original craft, from which I stripped all but one of the docking ports, the struts, and the solar panels (click here for craft file).

screenshot41.png

On the original I had no problems using symmetry or placing docking ports on the sides of the ends of the 'arms'.

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List of things that I have welded so far:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8opBfkYYvf3YnZLMGxQdWZkNXM&usp=sharing

Some of these require mods like MRS or MKS/OKS or TAC Life Support.

MRS end-cap designs with integrated docking ports, both with and without RCS thrusters.

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Created a station "spine" with MKS/OKS mod along with some "end caps" that contain docking ports, lights and other useful goodies. This drastically reduces the part count on large stations (each end cap usually had 5-10 individual parts, now welded into a single part per end cap).

Javascript is disabled. View full album

I'm also testing out a "tug core" which holds LF/O fuel, RCS fuel, electricity and has mounting points on radial trusses for NERVA engines and RCS ports.

Interestingly, the RCS thrusters can be radially attached on symmetry mode on the trusses, but not the NERFA engines (which have to be placed one by one and then rotated into position).

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Keep in mind that I think I first got those parts from EPL+Karbonite:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/89774-90-%28V-25%29-ExtraPlanetary-Launchpads%28EPL%29-Regolith-Adaptation-%281-10-15%29

I don't know if that will make a difference.

Never mind, I made a stupid mistake in the previous attempt, but now I have corrected it. Fix will be included in the next release.

On another note, I welded together this part (click for link to .cfg file):

(IMG)

And then discovered that the attachment nodes on the ends have problems.

* Symmetrical placement does not work. I tried putting Clamp-O-Tron Sr. ports on the tops and bottoms of the ends of the 'arms' (where you see the appropriate-sized adapters), and had to place them one-by-one instead of being able to place one and replicate it with 4-way symmetry. The same applies to normal Clamp-O-Tron ports attached to the outermost nodes on the very ends of the arms - they had to be placed one at a time.

I can't place stock Docking port (or any other part) on stock HubMax Multi-Point Connector in symmetry mode!!! I have place it one after other and I have always thought it is normal behavior (uncomfortable, but stock)... (Yes, symmetry mode works on your craft you uploaded, but it is another situation. In the center is two horizontal symmetrical tank attached to the vertical tank in surface mode. In case when symmetrical parts are attached to the surface, it is also possible to attach the parts to them in the symmetric mode. Don't know what it is, but seems for me it is stock behavior.)

* I could not attach anything to the sides of the ends. The 'green balls' appear there, but dragging a part near them does not cause the usual 'snap' to that point. I can sometimes get a part to attach by placing it near the desired point and then using the Offset and Rotate tools to 'push' it into place, but sometimes those aren't enough.

I have no problems with it... On image below (I used your part form cfg) you can see three ports, one placed in surface attachment mode (left one), two others connected to nodes. I just rotated last two before placing using W,A,S,D keys, as I always do.

AnPgsUE.png

- - - Updated - - -

List of things that I have welded so far:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8opBfkYYvf3YnZLMGxQdWZkNXM&usp=sharing

Some of these require mods like MRS or MKS/OKS or TAC Life Support.

(skip)

It looks interesting! Thank you for posting it!

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On the original UbioZur Welding thread a question was asked as follows: “Is there an easy way in the editor to select which nodes to keep and which to delete?â€Â

On an average build I end up with around 200 nodes which cause considerable lag when loading the final part in VAB or the SPH. So how do you get rid of the unwanted nodes and keep only the ones that are required?

Here is a short description of how I reduce the node count for my builds.

Step 1 - Create your part and weld it.

Step 2 - Reload your part and attach all the parts that you want for your final craft, save the craft file.

Step 3 - Exit KSP and make a copy of your “Part†file (Prevents a lot of pain should accidently delete a node that you wanted to keep)

Step 4 - Open your “Craft†and “Part†files in NotePad++ or your preferred text editor.

If you look at your craft file you will see the lines as follows: â€ÂattN = rightStructureCube27,ModIonEngine_4294406880â€Â

highlight the â€ÂrightStructureCube27†this is your corresponding node on your part.

Click on “Find†then switch to your part and click “Find Next†this will find your node, which will look like this:

"node_stack_rightStructureCube27 = -6.83029,-1.78369,-3.02379,0,1,0,1â€Â

Now delete all the nodes above the node you want to keep.

Repeat this process for the rest of your “attN†lines in the craft and part files.

When you have finished save your Part file, load it into VAB or SPH and build your final craft with just the nodes wanted.

I hope this helps, if you would like a more detailed tutorial on this? Please let me know and I will attempt to create a short video or picture presentation for it.

Cheers

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Does this play nice with FAR? No mention of it in the thread so far as I can see. I had heard that the previous incarnation had strange interactions with that FAR's aerodynamics. Perhaps not weld anything that has lift properties? Guess I could try it out and report back.

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Incompatible mods:

  • Procedural parts
  • Infernal Robotics

Edit, I should read the entire thread...

Does this mean you cannot use the welding mod if you use these others, or does it mean don't try to weld procedural parts or anything from IR?

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/107273-0-90-UbioZur-Welding-Ltd-Continued-2-1-1-%282015-01-14%29?p=1670371&viewfull=1#post1670371

Edited by klesh
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I'm also testing out a "tug core" which holds LF/O fuel, RCS fuel, electricity and has mounting points on radial trusses for NERVA engines and RCS ports.

Interestingly, the RCS thrusters can be radially attached on symmetry mode on the trusses, but not the NERFA engines (which have to be placed one by one and then rotated into position).

Got a screenshot of this? I'm curious if we can discern a pattern between the symmetry/placement issues I see and the ones you see.

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How about a .cfg file and .craft file? Tug-Core-II-1.cfg demonstrates the issue if you attempt to attach NERVAs to the outside struts. But the regular white RCS 4-way thruster gladly attaches to the end with 4-way symmetry. (These .craft/.cfg files use all stock parts.)

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8opBfkYYvf3T0Vnb25ENGg5UzA&usp=sharing

In my particular case, I am guessing this is because the attachment points are on the radial and I always have to swing the engines into place? The engines work fine in the unwelded version and can be placed in 4-way symmetry on the trusses.

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Edit, I should read the entire thread...

Does this mean you cannot use the welding mod if you use these others, or does it mean don't try to weld procedural parts or anything from IR?

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/107273-0-90-UbioZur-Welding-Ltd-Continued-2-1-1-%282015-01-14%29?p=1670371&viewfull=1#post1670371

You can have all the mods installed, and will have no Problems. But welding the parts from the mods that are maked as incompatible, will break the result or simple not appear.

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So far, my answer is: "everything is possible". The more you tell about your problems, the more detailed answer you can expect.

erm, i am welding biiiiiigggg ships, they are made out of wings using tweeks scale and stock the first part was fine but then i duplicated the bottom ship and added on more and now when i weld all the positions are NaN and it wont load i need help

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Looks like I found another limitation. I tried to weld a quad LV-N assembly from a 2.5m-to-quad-1.25m adapter and, well, four LV-Ns. The result was strange, and not actually usable as an engine.

To find out whether this is possible at all, I took the weld result .cfg and hacked at it, and actually managed to produced a working part, except for one thing: the fairings won't come off, no matter what I do, at most I could get rid of fairing on one of the engines.

Other than that, I managed to weld some parts, including one quite similar to the tug core posted by WuphonsReach above. It seems that more complicated parts require some .cfg tweaking on the attachment nodes to get them right. On the tug core, I had to add stackSymmetry = 3 to get the quad symmetry working right. On other part, I had to change the order of the node_stack* properties to get the part to attach correctly (I was able to attach it to top and bottom nodes, but not the side node I needed, it would snap but wouldn't connect).

It seems that building the part to be welded from scratch in a clean VAB produces much more predictable results than cutting of parts from complete design and welding that.

Anyway, with this tool I might finally be able to fly my creations without turning the game into a slideshow, keep up the good work!

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I tried welding the octagonal cargobay 8m + 8m octagonal fuel tank with an adapter going to 2.5m round end.

that resulted in some weird textures. tomorrow I can make a screenshot to illustrate.

Thanks, we'll wait. It will be better if you provide a .craft file for further testing.

erm, i am welding biiiiiigggg ships, they are made out of wings using tweeks scale and stock the first part was fine but then i duplicated the bottom ship and added on more and now when i weld all the positions are NaN and it wont load i need help

.........

errm is there a part number hthat it wont work over, i have 1278 parts and it keeps giving me NaN in the cofig posions

You, sir, just a maniac! :P

Personally I have not tried to weld together more than 40-50 parts. However, it would be interesting to look at your creation. :confused:

So far, all I can suggest is to divide it into two parts.

Looks like I found another limitation. I tried to weld a quad LV-N assembly from a 2.5m-to-quad-1.25m adapter and, well, four LV-Ns. The result was strange, and not actually usable as an engine.

To find out whether this is possible at all, I took the weld result .cfg and hacked at it, and actually managed to produced a working part, except for one thing: the fairings won't come off, no matter what I do, at most I could get rid of fairing on one of the engines.

Yes, this is game limitation. Now I've supplemented "Known limitations" section on OP with this info.

Other than that, I managed to weld some parts, including one quite similar to the tug core posted by WuphonsReach above. It seems that more complicated parts require some .cfg tweaking on the attachment nodes to get them right. On the tug core, I had to add stackSymmetry = 3 to get the quad symmetry working right.

Last one is very interesting. Can I ask for more details? May be .cfg file?

On other part, I had to change the order of the node_stack* properties to get the part to attach correctly (I was able to attach it to top and bottom nodes, but not the side node I needed, it would snap but wouldn't connect).

Unfortunately, when welding something a little bit complicated, you should always assume the possibility of having to manually rework weldment... Sorry. :(

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