Kerbals being more petlike

[klgraham1013]

Perhaps when a Kerbal is chillin', they'll gain a bit of science for their effort. Scientist getting a bit more. If preventative maintenance is every added, a chillin' engineer would bring your equipment back up to speed.

[Wabbit]

Yeah! If this happened, building bases might also be more fun. Especially on Laythe, where I am planning on starting a big colony campaign. Maybe, with certain mods we could make custom moving nodes (ex. map out the walkways above your base so they walk across them and don't just waddle off)

[DMSP]

Yeah! If this happened, building bases might also be more fun. Especially on Laythe, where I am planning on starting a big colony campaign. Maybe, with certain mods we could make custom moving nodes (ex. map out the walkways above your base so they walk across them and don't just waddle off)

Hah, just wondering, did I influence this campaign by any chance?

Try this: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/107459-The-Laythe-Colonisation-challenge%21

[Wabbit]

Nah, I had the Idea before.

[ceauke]

I was watching some KSP youtubes last night. There's already a lot of animations for kerbals working in the various hangars. They are randomly walking around etc. Sounds easy enough to have idle kerbals do some animations.

[klgraham1013]

The biggest problem is routing AI. Having a Kerbal walk around is probably not to much of an issue. It's having them not walk into dangerous situations, or if we want them to do things like repair broken wheels and the like.

[Pthigrivi]

I like it, but I feel like a more focused way to make this part of the gameplay would be to use a starcraft like system in which you can set waypoints; move here, collect sample there, retrieve data there, etc.

That said, pathfinding could be a real issue with ladders and rcs packs etc.. I'm no programmer but ai dealing with custom configured vessels could be a real nightmare.

[klgraham1013]

The easiest solution may be something like persistent trails. By having the player define the path a Kerbal will walk, it would eliminate any unforeseen hazards a Kerbal may come across.

Though, I don't really like this solution. I like the idea of Kerbals having a "mind of their own" and being able to wonder around a small radius without player intervention.

[av8r1]

I did find it a bit jarring that idle kerbals on EVAs just stand there like they're at attention. In the older versions, I didn't see a need to have more than one kerbal out on an EVA since there was barely enough for one kerbal to do, but now that they have specialties there's more of a gameplay emergent reason to do so.

I see two potential levels of idle kerbal behavior:

Idle animations. These should be the easiest to implement; a given kerbal stands in place and looks around, picks up rocks, looks up at the sky, plays with his suit, and does other cute little things. Maybe even they occasionally jump in place.

Some of these could be context-specific. Looking up at Kerbal with an expression of awe would make sense on the Mun, but not so much on Duna. If within a certain radius of a flag, they could salute, and so on.

AI wandering. This is where kerbals wander around. I don't like this option because there's a lot of dangerous terrain in the Kerbol system, and the last thing I need on a mission is to have my pilot wander into the Mohole. It would require pathfinding, slope detection (so they don't walk off a cliff), and take up processor power to handle something you might not be looking at. One feature might be to have them magically jetpack back to where the player last put them if their altitude or position changes too rapidly without using up propellant. Wandering off a cliff and jetpacking back up is a very kerbal thing to do. So that they don't get squished by moving craft, having them run tangent to the motion of an object approaching them would be appropriate.

That's assuming a surface EVA. A flying EVA is a whole other matter. Little things like waving are okay but I wouldn't have them change positions by themselves. Two things could happen there: the player wouldn't notice, or it would inconvenience the player. Having a kerbal tumble in space while the player isn't controlling him is fine, as long as he stops when the player resumes control.

[klgraham1013]

AI wandering. This is where kerbals wander around. I don't like this option because there's a lot of dangerous terrain in the Kerbol system, and the last thing I need on a mission is to have my pilot wander into the Mohole. It would require pathfinding, slope detection (so they don't walk off a cliff), and take up processor power to handle something you might not be looking at. One feature might be to have them magically jetpack back to where the player last put them if their altitude or position changes too rapidly without using up propellant. Wandering off a cliff and jetpacking back up is a very kerbal thing to do. So that they don't get squished by moving craft, having them run tangent to the motion of an object approaching them would be appropriate.

Again, I think it should be a toggle. Also, the Kerbals would wander in a general radius from where the command was issued. As far as back ground processing, that's not really necessary, is it? The whole point of this is so the Kerbals are more alive when you're looking at them. It doesn't really matter once you're gone.

I imagine the game would place a, sort of, marker when "chill out" is toggled. The Kerbal would wander with in, say, a ten meter radius from this marker. When you leave physics range, the game has no need to remember the Kerbals exact last location. It only needs to know where that marker is. The Kerbal will, basically, reset when you re-enter back into physics range.

Edited January 19, 2015 by klgraham1013

[Slam_Jones]

Again, I think it should be a toggle. Also, the Kerbals would wonder in a general radius from where the command was issued. As far as back ground processing, that's not really necessary, is it? The whole point of this is so the Kerbals are more alive when you're looking at them. It doesn't really matter once you're gone.

I know I'm gonna get flak for this, but it's been bothering me, so...

Please use the word "wander" instead of "wonder". I understand if English maybe isn't your first language, but it's bothering me.

Sorry and thank you!

Edit: In regards to the topic at hand, I'd love to see something like it implemented. Adding a little more "life" to the Kerbals would add a fair bit more quality to the game.

[klgraham1013]

I think making this idea to big is what's tripping people up. Keeping it simple is best. Kerbals shouldn't fly around the Mun with their jetpack. I don't even think they should be going EVA in space. For me, this idea is about making ground bases feel more alive.

- - - Updated - - -

I know I'm gonna get flak for this, but it's been bothering me, so...

Please use the word "wander" instead of "wonder". I understand if English maybe isn't your first language, but it's bothering me.

Sorry and thank you!

That's awesome! I just edited it, reloaded, and already a comment! I actually haven't left the page at all! You are fast, good sir! I hope my grammar isn't so bad that someone thinks English isn't my first language.

Edited January 19, 2015 by klgraham1013

[Slam_Jones]

I think making this idea to big is what's tripping people up. Keeping it simple is best. Kerbals shouldn't fly around the Mun with their jetpack. I don't even think they should be going EVA in space. For me, this idea is about making ground bases feel more alive.

- - - Updated - - -

That's awesome! I just edited it, reloaded, and already a comment! I actually haven't left the page at all! You are fast, good sir! I hope my grammar isn't so bad that someone thinks English isn't my first language.

Sorry >.< didn't mean to offend or anything, I'm just a bit OCD about some things

[Wabbit]

This is looking good xD

[jman508]

just imagine this actually being implemented and robbaz or scott manly turning around after fidgeting with their ship just in time to see a kerbal jump off a cliff, or do something hilariously stupid. and maybe in career/science mode the more leveled up your kerbal is the less likely he is to do something really stupid ( EXAMPLE= jumping off of a cliff) while he is in the "idle" mode and he's walking around and doing things.

[rynak]

Sorry, but i hate the proposal of the OP. I don't want to fight against my own crew - i already have to fight the physics, framerate and whatnot.

On the contrary, some of the existing animations already annoy me, because they take overly long - like falling down and standing up.

If you want to make the kerbals more "personal", then there are better ways to achieve this.... finalfrontier might have gone completely nuts with the number of achievements, but the basic idea is nice. I also wouldn't mind if the current abilities system were expanded.

Then, i'm affraid to mention this, because if SQUAD ever goes to do it, their attitude towards texture memory might ensure that no home computer has enough RAM to load KSP anymore.... but anyways, aesthetics: We're talking about a game, where almost all kerbals look the same, as well as their clothes. Heck, there not even is a variable to say if one of them is male or female, so texture replacer has the player fix everything manually.

So yeah, "more personal" sure - "more petlike" no thanks get the hell away from me.

[Voyager55]

^ ^ ^ No need to be so rude, the KSP forum is an oasis of joy compared to most other forums, let's keep it that way.

You should still be able to 3rd person control kerbals, but I really like the idea of putting them into "chill out" mode. Where they walk around, blabber to each other in Kerbish/Kerbalese and do other things.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Voyager55

[klgraham1013]

Sorry, but i hate the proposal of the OP. I don't want to fight against my own crew - i already have to fight the physics, framerate and whatnot.

It's like no one is reading the thread. I have proposed many times that it would be a toggle, and various ways to keep the Kerbals from doing something stupid.

[ceauke]

No offense taken.

In my defense, I know and mentioned that I assume AI may NEVER disrupt a mission. (This is almost as important as the three robot laws.)

AAAAND... I get it that people would rather have squad spend time elsewhere.

To put a better rules around my suggestion:

1. AI Kerbals may never be allowed to kill themselves (logically, they may prefer it to flying in my rockets :-) )

2. They may never spend resources (so even if we get animations of them doing an EVA flip, or hover, it cannot consume fuel)

3. They are probably also not allowed to enter/exit vehicle

UNLESS... it's option driven. In hard/random mode you may enable all this random stuff. But I wont insist on this functionality.

What remains is either:

A) a lot of programming to work on pathfinding and life preservation; which no-one can insist on; or

in the spot animations; probably the best to hope for at this time

To expand on B:

- We already see kerbal animations in the vehicle assembly buildings. So I dont think squad will be starting this whole endeavour from zero

- Maybe different suits (engineer, scientist, pilot) for the kerbals

- Different faces as rynak suggested (of course in graphics options you can make all look the same to save framerate). I for one, would love to see a face full of soot after a crash.

- Animations: I guess people can come up with various cool things. E.g. the suggestion of magically coming up with a golf club on a moon :-)

- Interactions: Even when animating on a spot, there can be interactions. E.g. if a ship or building is close, the kerbal can look at it or take pictures or whatever. If another kerbal is close, maybe the two can have a conversation (e.g. the engineer can argue with the scientist, or the male can chat up the female pilot). It will be sad if we get a soil analysis animation without actually collecting the science ;-)

- On the EVA snapshots on the bottom right, I think there is scope for more animations there as well. Including interactions

Finally I'll concede that I know that none of this help anyone get to the mun easier or understand physics more. But I think that it will make the single-player more entertaining. It's fun watching scott/robbaz do their youtube thing, but when I play on my own, I dont give the kerbals any personality myself. If the game fakes that, it will go a long way.

[Crimson Sunrise]

Please...

They can barely make the core game work and you want AI implementations?

I request Black & White type AI instead.

[ceauke]

I dont mind people not liking my suggesions (ala rynak)

but just saying to suggestions on a suggestions forum, that squad should rather just fix a broken game defies the raison d'être of the subforum itself and is quite insulting to my heroes imho.

Maybe I should start an informal poll on this:

For my suggesion of more petlike Kerbals, which would you prefer:

1. Nothing: just fix this broken game

2. Pointless animations: More animations for kerbals on standby. The kerbal won't change his location. No AI.

3. AI level 1 (squad hiring 10 people): Kerbals walking around cutely (albeit pointlessly) climbing on craft, kicking tyres, chasing each other around while doing eva, smoking next to the SRB etc

4. AI level 11 (squad hiring 100 people): Kerbals walking around, respond to point and click instructions (e.g. go there and fix the wheel; or go there and get soil sample)

My wish at least for number 2 at this stage.

- - - Updated - - -

I request Black & White type AI instead.

What is b&w type AI?

[Crimson Sunrise]

What is b&w type AI?

It's the AI used in Black & White, awarded by The Guinness Book of Records as the most advanced game AI.

[klgraham1013]

I dont mind people not liking my suggesions (ala rynak)

but just saying to suggestions on a suggestions forum, that squad should rather just fix a broken game defies the raison d'être of the subforum itself and is quite insulting to my heroes imho.

Maybe I should start an informal poll on this:

For my suggesion of more petlike Kerbals, which would you prefer:

1. Nothing: just fix this broken game

2. Pointless animations: More animations for kerbals on standby. The kerbal won't change his location. No AI.

3. AI level 1 (squad hiring 10 people): Kerbals walking around cutely (albeit pointlessly) climbing on craft, kicking tyres, chasing each other around while doing eva, smoking next to the SRB etc

4. AI level 11 (squad hiring 100 people): Kerbals walking around, respond to point and click instructions (e.g. go there and fix the wheel; or go there and get soil sample)

My wish at least for number 2 at this stage.

- - - Updated - - -

What is b&w type AI?

Squad hiring 100 for AI? Even 10 seems like a lot for what I'm thinking.

This is how I see it working:

At random intervals walk forward. Each interval would have a chance of walking in a different direction. The Kerbal would be restricted to a radius around the activation point.

The Kerbal has no awareness of his surrounding. If you tell him to "chill out" next to a cliff, that's your fault.

The Lego Mindstorm toys I had in the 90s could be programmed to do this. NPCs had similar code in early 90s video games. Games with small teams just like Squad. Maybe smaller. I think the development time for this is being highly exaggerated. At least for the AI I'm thinking of.

I'm not asking for this in 0.91. I just think it would be a fun idea for 0.99. Something to make Kerbals more real. Also, I've been playing with Texture Replacer for some time now. I sometimes forget Kerbals are clones until I watch a streamer who doesn't use the mod.

[Crimson Sunrise]

Squad hiring 100 for AI? Even 10 seems like a lot for what I'm thinking.

This is how I see it working:

At random intervals walk forward. Each interval would have a chance of walking in a different direction. The Kerbal would be restricted to a radius around the activation point.

The Kerbal has no awareness of his surrounding. If you tell him to "chill out" next to a cliff, that's your fault.

The Lego Mindstorm toys I had in the 90s could be programmed to do this. NPCs had similar code in early 90s video games. Games with small teams just like Squad. Maybe smaller. I think the development time for this is being highly exaggerated. At least for the AI I'm thinking of.

I'm not asking for this in 0.91. I just think it would be a fun idea for 0.99. Something to make Kerbals more real. Also, I've been playing with Texture Replacer for some time now. I sometimes forget Kerbals are clones until I watch a streamer who doesn't use the mod.

I wouldn't compare SQUAD with any other of the mentioned companies. While it's simple enough to program simple AI behavior, it takes a certain mindset to do so. Seeing as the company in question doesn't seem to [snip. Removed due to obivous 'holier than thou' violation of forum rules. Official and Unofficial]

Small teams of developers in the 90's were actually experienced programmers, as opposed to people with an 'academic degree in game design'.

[Wabbit]

Squad hiring 100 for AI? Even 10 seems like a lot for what I'm thinking.

This is how I see it working:

At random intervals walk forward. Each interval would have a chance of walking in a different direction. The Kerbal would be restricted to a radius around the activation point.

The Kerbal has no awareness of his surrounding. If you tell him to "chill out" next to a cliff, that's your fault.

This is what I was thinkin when the post was new, like every randomly picked (10-60) seconds, kerbal moves randomly picked (1-360) for a distance of (5-30), and then check if he's standing in a scenario or zone which can trigger an animation every once in a while, which can be done by checking every x-y ticks (since I have no concept of tick-based time) so it's not repetitive and flat.