Kerbodyne Touch & Go Racing League

[Merandix]

Sounds nice, I like how you sort of include your other race at the end of this one. I'm just afraid that I'll get lost when behind the mountains lol... I'm notorious for getting lost in games. Thank the heavens for the navball.

Should we just turn around at the end of the runway? Or go past the shores and include a crew report?

edit: also, rep for thinking up fun challenges

[Wanderfound]

Sounds nice, I like how you sort of include your other race at the end of this one. I'm just afraid that I'll get lost when behind the mountains lol... I'm notorious for getting lost in games. Thank the heavens for the navball.

Should we just turn around at the end of the runway? Or go past the shores and include a crew report?

I think do it like in the Loop & Land Challenge: out past the "shores" biome, take a crew report over the "water" biome (set an action group to do it), then turn around (an Immelmann is usually quickest) and land.

It's a good idea to take a scouting flight over the mountains before your first real run, but it's not too hard to find your way once you're there.

Through the big gap hugging the left-hand side, pull up and hard left as soon as you're through, look for the highest peak at the top. Once you find the highest peak (skinny pointy thing), you'll see two narrow gaps to the right of it. Go through the right-hand one of those gaps, then hard left back to KSC.

So, the full race is:

1) Take off heading east.

2) Turn around, fly west to the mountains.

3) Go over the big pass, then come back through the skinny pass.

4) Bump & go at KSC.

5) Crew report over the "water" biome.

6) Turn around, land.

[Merandix]

Kinda lost my patience with this one, sorry... The swing around the mountains has the craft decelerating to below 250 m/s in the standard souposphere, so it misses a bit of excitement... The majority of my attempts were spent in that little short flight section behind the mountains. I'm sure it's much more exciting when at supersonic speed, but I fear in stock, we're simply flying too low for that.

I did find a solution to that in the second narrow pass you have us flying through.

So here's an alternative variant. Dunno if it's possible in FAR/NEAR, but it's sure as hell exciting in stock:

If you fly straight for the tallest spire in the mountains you see, after a while, you start seeing more detail, and you see this pass (first picture below). Immediately after, you have to make a VERY sharp turn, and swing straight around the mountain, through the second pass you had us fly through. This turn is VERY tight, but I got it on my second try, and it DOES give that feeling of 'BOOYAH I just did that!'. If you're too fast, or turn too wide... boom into mountain side. Then you return back to KSC, do a touch and go, and as soon as you reach the water (crew report needed). Basically exactly the same as yours, just the bit in the mountains changed.

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Edited January 19, 2015 by Merandix

[Wanderfound]

Looks good.

It might be challenging from an aerodynamic failures POV for FAR; 15+ G's sustained for too long and you start ripping wings off. I'll give it a try later on and see how it goes.

But for now, your version is the "official" stock aero track; start posting times.

[Merandix]

I made some pictures for clarity on where to go and how to fly both tracks.

- I edited this post past this point -

The images were for a different concept, but the routes still apply. Wherever it reads 'FAR/NEAR' you should read 'Race 2a'. Wherever it says 'Stock' you should read 'Race 2b'.

The route-information is still correct!

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Edited January 20, 2015 by Merandix

[Wanderfound]

Verdict on flying the stock track in FAR: definitely possible, but very much not novice-friendly unless taken at a very conservative speed.

See http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/craigmotbey/Kerbal/Challenges/Kerbodyne%20Air%20Race/Track%202%20hard/story for a 5 minute 41 second demonstration. No video, because it did take a few quicksave/quickload cycles to get it right....

[Merandix]

Maybe rename it to 'hard mode' or something? I've yet to try an official speedrun myself.

edit:

5:41??? yikes... 7:20 here Not even worth posting...

Edited January 19, 2015 by Merandix

[ValCab33]

My entry to the Open class, stock aero, no chutes, in 4 minutes and 44 seconds:

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Lost control near the end (Dunno why, the CoM was still in front of CoL) and loss around 10 secs, but that's okay

[Lhathron the Elf]

I might do this, but I have a quick question first: how many wheels have to touch down on the island runway? (I'm sorry if you already specified this: I didn't see it anywhere.) What I mean is, do I have to put all my gear down on the runway and then take off again, or can I just tap it with one wheel and then turn around? I feel as though this would change things a bit.

[Merandix]

If you can count the number of wheels you get on the ground when you do this I'm seriously impressed. It's literally 'touch and go'. You touch the ground, and go. Problem is, since it's a time run, you will be wanting to touch the ground at a VERY high rate of speed, while making sure the touch won't prevent the go (aka, crash).

@ValCab33... if you can manage that time while almost standing still at landing at the old airfield, you can do MUCH better... Most of us do the touch at 250+ m/s, that's over 3,5 times as fast as you, and you STILL have a good 4 minute time!

@Wanderfound

I also just realised that I'm doing a stock Aero Formula one attempt and you aren't... so another try at this! With the fully fuelled stock Formula One craft! My new time: 6:48

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Edited January 19, 2015 by Merandix

[Wanderfound]

Maybe rename it to 'hard mode' or something? I've yet to try an official speedrun myself.

edit:

5:41??? yikes... 7:20 here Not even worth posting...

FAR vs Stock, different physics; times aren't comparable.

I'm spending 90% of the run at over 600m/s. For all we know, 7:20 is going to be the winning stock time...

Edited January 19, 2015 by Wanderfound

[Volcanix]

After reading that someone broke my record, I realized that I just can't stand this. I felt the need to break the record by Merandix, so I developed a new plane capable of reaching really high speeds. I also changed my flight path.

I think I should call it "Bolt", because it is almost as fast as a lightning bolt

Well, here you go!

3 minutes 41 seconds!

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[Wanderfound]

The leaderboard is starting to look like an Asterix comic; Volcanix, Merandix. Now all we need is Cacaphonix, Dogmatix and Unhygeinix...

[ValCab33]

So, my previous attempt was a bit too slow on the touch&go, and i lost control, all of that made me loss some time. Sot I tried again.

And I did 4 mins 11 secs

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I don't think I could do better...

[Merandix]

NICE! And Volcanix, awesome attempt!

@Wanderfound, making the leaderboard look like an Asterix & Obelix comic? Awesome!

Also, yeah, I kind of forgot I was flying your Formula One craft for those attempts I now have one that's significantly faster. And even your original flight plan may be quite fun with this one. Maybe it's a better idea to rename them to Race 2A and Race 2B (hard mode). Because yes, the one I came up with is in fact quite newbie unfriendly, though incredibly fun when you DO succeed. At that, it is definitely a good exercise at piloting.

Anyway, an attempt at Race 2a (my variant/extra challenge), final time 5:07

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Edited January 20, 2015 by Merandix

[hoioh]

Ok, about your plane, MAYBE I should've done the Formula One first, and the open class afterwards. Because yes, it will feel like you're flying an airliner compared to the likely performance of crafts of the open class. I fully agree with you on a level playing field though. Therefore I kind of feel like tweaking fuel (and thus take-off mass) is one step too far. I think it SHOULD be allowed to tweak anything you can tweak as a pilot, but she's fuelled up in the SPH... so that's mechanics work in my mind. Also I feel like allowing fuel to be tweaked is a bit more (Sorry hoioh, not that I want to disagree so much, but I honestly believe this is a more straightforward ruling).

I'm still out on the parachutes. They do add mass and drag. But especially in the single engine category, they do make a significant difference in getting the plane to stop. Because again, that little plane really REALLY liked to fly, and didn't want to stop

You're perfectly well allowed to disagree, I'm sure we can make some new land where there previously was water to find a compromise, as is the Dutch way

- - - Updated - - -

Here's a video of my Formula Stock fully fueled attempt at the mountain run. Time: 7:51 (got to find a better trajectory, but I gotta eat first ;-)

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[Merandix]

When I read Volcanix' awesome attempt on my previous record in Stock Aero Open - Race 1 I couldn't let this slide obviously. It's becoming seriously hard to capture that touch and go now. Also... I thought going supersonic was scary... seeing the ground get closer at way over half a km per second is even scarier O.o

Anyway, completed the course in 3:19... But AGAIN, this is SERIOUSLY scary flying. I honestly thought I was joking with those sub 3 minute times, but they do seem possible... Maybe not by me, but I'm sure someone will break the 3 minute mark now!

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Obviously, Touch & Go - Stock Aero Open - Race 2A (Wanderfound edition) couldn't be left untouched either. I discovered a new issue I ran into... going TOO fast I could easily accelerate past 1200 m/s... but stopping at 1000 or 1100 is far more sensible... At 1200 I regularly overshoot the runway for the touch and go...

Time: 5:09... in such a quick aircraft, that race is not only fun, but also surprisingly scenic!

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Edited January 20, 2015 by Merandix

[hoioh]

At those speeds your "shorter" course really doesn't work anymore does it, Merandix?

I kept hitting that mountainside even with a slowdown...

[Merandix]

It should work, but the trick really is that you should slow the heck down. But you should be able to pull it off at 400 plus entry speed in the first gap. Secret is that you START the turn BEFORE you enter the gap! And I usually fly most of that manoeuvre without power! Just as I line up for the second gap I hit the gas again.

Just as in racing, some corners have a maximum speed Formula 1 drivers don't take the winding bits of the circuit at top speed either. It's not so much that the course doesn't work, it's more that if you want to make it, you HAVE to slow down. And that's where the piloting test comes in; getting in at the highest speed possible, as well as getting out... but 'the highest speed possible' isn't necessarily 'as fast as you can go'. Also, you -need- a manoeuvrable aircraft with a tight turning radius. And even then you need to judge a safe speed.

Once you've got the hang of it, you'll rarely crash into that mountainside again. But to help you a bit:

- start your turn a few moments BEFORE you pass the first gap.

- Make sure you don't go too fast

- As you go through, cut power (Yes, I'm crazy)

- keep turning

- As you are nearly lined up with the second gap; hit the gas!

If you do it right, you might notice that your turn is actually TOO tight, that means you can go in faster!

As I said, the more I've flown it, the more I'm convinced that Wanderfound's race should be Race 2... and mine perhaps a B option for when you like a bit of extra challenge. But I can promise you that the first time you make it, you'll feel awesome.

BTW @Wanderfound. Hitting those VAB helicopter pads is REALLY hard. Never pulled it off in my own craft. This may be a bit too much for 'advanced pilot training'.

[Wanderfound]

Just as in racing, some corners have a maximum speed Formula 1 drivers don't take the winding bits of the circuit at top speed either. It's not so much that the course doesn't work, it's more that if you want to make it, you HAVE to slow down. And that's where the piloting test comes in; getting in at the highest speed possible, as well as getting out... but 'the highest speed possible' isn't necessarily 'as fast as you can go'. Also, you -need- a manoeuvrable aircraft with a tight turning radius. And even then you need to judge a safe speed.

Once you've got the hang of it, you'll rarely crash into that mountainside again. But to help you a bit:

- start your turn a few moments BEFORE you pass the first gap.

- Make sure you don't go too fast

- As you go through, cut power (Yes, I'm crazy)

- keep turning

- As you are nearly lined up with the second gap; hit the gas!

If you do it right, you might notice that your turn is actually TOO tight, that means you can go in faster!

As I said, the more I've flown it, the more I'm convinced that Wanderfound's race should be Race 2... and mine perhaps a B option for when you like a bit of extra challenge. But I can promise you that the first time you make it, you'll feel awesome.

BTW @Wanderfound. Hitting those VAB helicopter pads is REALLY hard. Never pulled it off in my own craft. This may be a bit too much for 'advanced pilot training'.

Ditto for FAR, BTW: you'll never make that turn unless you drop to subsonic on the way in. I cut throttle and hit the airbrakes while in the near-vertical climb up to the pass, taking the turn at around 250m/s. The tight version as race 2a sounds fine to me.

Think you could manage a touch & go that passes under one of the KSC bridges?

[Starhawk]

I've been trying out the Island Touch and Go (or Race 1). Over and over. As Merandix said on the first page, the real challenge here is hitting that F1 key at the moment of bounce without splashing or splattering your craft and crew.

It has certainly given me a few interesting shots of Rapid Unplanned Disassembly in progress:

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Anyway, here's my best successful run so far. Nothing to write home about at 4:13 for the stock open class. I call this craft the FLJ.

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It has been huge fun doing this challenge! Thanks!

Edited January 20, 2015 by Starhawk
typo

[Merandix]

[...]Think you could manage a touch & go that passes under one of the KSC bridges?

I'll try to do that. Seems tricky.

@Starhawk

Rapid Unplanned Disassemblies happen rather often. I only post my successful endeavours, but I think the guys at the Old Airfield control tower scream in terror when I'm lining up for the runway by now.

In other news, I noticed that I didn't enter in the Stock Aero Formula One - Race 2b yet, a blasphemy that cannot be allowed to exist, so threw Bill into the cockpit and had him fly the course in the fully fuelled stock plane in 6:33.

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Note, I edited many previous posts to refer to the races as mentioned in the opening post.

I'm missing a good description for races 2a and 2b in the starting post... maybe a good idea to put those in for people new to the topic? Saves them from reading the entire thing.

[Starhawk]

@Starhawk

Rapid Unplanned Disassemblies happen rather often. I only post my successful endeavours

Well yeah, but I don't usually have the presence of mind to take screenshots.

Also, sorry about your name. I was tired.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Starhawk

[ValCab33]

[...]Hitting those VAB helicopter pads is REALLY hard. Never pulled it off in my own craft. This may be a bit too much for 'advanced pilot training'.

Yup, really hard, never made it with my own plane either. But after many rapid unplanned disassemblies I did it with the Kerboracer

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125 m/s is not as fast as the race, but I think it's not that bad.

[...]Think you could manage a touch & go that passes under one of the KSC bridges?

Well this is REALLY harder than the VAB helipads...

[zarakon]

Stock Formula 1 (no chutes, fully fueled)

5:14

- - - Updated - - -

Of course, the one time I forget to hit record is when I end up breaking the 3 minute mark...

- - - Updated - - -

Stock Open (no chutes)

2:56

The box in the upper left that's just showing a zoomed in image of the timewarp chevrons is supposed to be a zoomed-in shot of the MET, but I didn't notice it was wrong until right after I was stopped. I'll get it right for the next one! Planning on trying out NEAR or FAR.