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[1.9-1.10] Throttle Controlled Avionics


allista

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Version 3.5.7 for Kerbal Space Program 1.7.2

Released on 2019-06-17

  • Only show "AutoThrottle" switch if Altitude Control or Vertical Speed Control are available.
  • Reimplemented the HUD windows using uGUI:
    • Vertical Flight Controls
    • T-SAS Controls
    • Maneuver Controls
  • Snap Desired Vertical Speed to 0 when in [-0.1, 0.1]
  • Fixed out-of-range exception in editor while trying to set empty GID
    • Closed #67
  • Fixed NRE in TCAGui.onVesselDestroy

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Edited by allista
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19 hours ago, allista said:

Looking at the code: there's literally only two cases when gimbal limit is manipulated at all (set to 0 in both cases):

  1. when the main throttle is 0; in which case gimballing doesn't do anything
  2. when an orbital maneuver is performed and the remaining dV is < 0.5m/s. Which is needed to perform the maneuver precisely. Indeed, this assumes that you have some control authority aside from the engines. But otherwise you wouldn't be able to perform any orbital maneuvering at all. 

In all other cases gimbal limit is set to 100.

So, could you elaborate: what behavior are you seeing exactly?

During the manuver, the crafts PID seems to have too mutch gain, causing quite a bit of overcorrection with the engine gimbal. (the craft doesn't normaly need other controls because it can flip in less than a second with engine gimbal).

Partway through the burn, a couple of things happen very fast... the spacecraft goes into a spin, the thrust cuts out, and the gimbal locks.

Is it possible that the oscilation causes the crafts heading to stray too far from the desired heading, causing TCA to cut thrust in order to reposition? Is there any way for me to tune the PID?

 

EDIT: After some more testing, It seems like the PID gets less agressive over time... That could cause an issue.

Edited by toric5
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5 hours ago, toric5 said:

During the manuver, the crafts PID seems to have too mutch gain, causing quite a bit of overcorrection with the engine gimbal. (the craft doesn't normaly need other controls because it can flip in less than a second with engine gimbal).

Partway through the burn, a couple of things happen very fast... the spacecraft goes into a spin, the thrust cuts out, and the gimbal locks.

Is it possible that the oscilation causes the crafts heading to stray too far from the desired heading, causing TCA to cut thrust in order to reposition? Is there any way for me to tune the PID?

 

EDIT: After some more testing, It seems like the PID gets less agressive over time... That could cause an issue.

I see.

When TCA tries to align thrust vector it deliberately ignores the gimbal (i.e. the actual thrust vector), using default thrust direction for each engine. This has to be done to prevent oscillations, as gimballing always shifts thrust away from the desired direction. However, the potential torque of gimballed engines is taken into account. What is not, is the finite speed with which gimbal changes thrust direction, and that may indeed cause oscillations on overpowered crafts with huge gimballing. It's a guess, though; I'd like to take a look at the actual .craft file and test things for myself to get the feel of what's happening.

What causes the spin I can't say without trying, but what happens next is simple: as soon as attitude error becomes > 10deg TCA shuts down the engines (so as not to mess up the maneuver) and tries to realign. And, as I said before, when engines are off, gimbal is also off.

There's no user-space way to control the PID, as it's actually a complex control system with double-PID cascades for each separate axis and parameter scheduling for different torque/MoI/thrust etc. All the parameters are in the .glob file here:

https://github.com/allista/ThrottleControlledAvionics/blob/bd9f2e9b664936b264adec1e9ec47be380cf1c46/GameData/ThrottleControlledAvionics/Plugins/PluginData/ThrottleControlledAvionics/ThrottleControlledAvionics.glob#L119

...looking at the vessel torque calculations I now see some weirdness in logic that accounts for gimbals. Have to explore this thoroughly.

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10 hours ago, allista said:

I see.

When TCA tries to align thrust vector it deliberately ignores the gimbal (i.e. the actual thrust vector), using default thrust direction for each engine. This has to be done to prevent oscillations, as gimballing always shifts thrust away from the desired direction. However, the potential torque of gimballed engines is taken into account. What is not, is the finite speed with which gimbal changes thrust direction, and that may indeed cause oscillations on overpowered crafts with huge gimballing. It's a guess, though; I'd like to take a look at the actual .craft file and test things for myself to get the feel of what's happening.

What causes the spin I can't say without trying, but what happens next is simple: as soon as attitude error becomes > 10deg TCA shuts down the engines (so as not to mess up the maneuver) and tries to realign. And, as I said before, when engines are off, gimbal is also off.

There's no user-space way to control the PID, as it's actually a complex control system with double-PID cascades for each separate axis and parameter scheduling for different torque/MoI/thrust etc. All the parameters are in the .glob file here:

https://github.com/allista/ThrottleControlledAvionics/blob/bd9f2e9b664936b264adec1e9ec47be380cf1c46/GameData/ThrottleControlledAvionics/Plugins/PluginData/ThrottleControlledAvionics/ThrottleControlledAvionics.glob#L119

...looking at the vessel torque calculations I now see some weirdness in logic that accounts for gimbals. Have to explore this thoroughly.

Ill see If I can re-create it with a stock craft...

The question is, why does the stock SAS seem to handle my craft so mutch better?

Edited by toric5
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1 hour ago, toric5 said:

Ill see If I can re-create it with a stock craft...

The question is, why does the stock SAS seem to handle my craft so mutch better?

They're completely different systems; and while both try to be as universal as possible, the accents in development must have been quite different. For one thing, stock SAS doesn't deal with torque created by thrust variations of individual engines. For that reason SAS doesn't handle well the torque that responds to control input with inertia (like torque from jets). That was the reason for creation of the T-SAS; heavens know I didn't what to do this until I was completely sure that SAS cannot work well with thrust generated torque.

1 hour ago, toric5 said:

Ill see If I can re-create it with a stock craft...

I can always install required mods, if need be.

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On 6/18/2019 at 2:57 PM, allista said:

They're completely different systems; and while both try to be as universal as possible, the accents in development must have been quite different. For one thing, stock SAS doesn't deal with torque created by thrust variations of individual engines. For that reason SAS doesn't handle well the torque that responds to control input with inertia (like torque from jets). That was the reason for creation of the T-SAS; heavens know I didn't what to do this until I was completely sure that SAS cannot work well with thrust generated torque.

I can always install required mods, if need be.

soo... try as I might, I cant recreate it in a sane craft... I swear I wasn't dreaming, but I could not get TCA to mess up during a quick mun mission using the same craft as last time...

The only weirdness I found this time is that TCA doesnt always free the gimballs again after turning TCA off.

Edited by toric5
I swear I can complete my sentences.
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im not sure if this is intended or not but early in-flight TCA is doing a really aggressive gravity turn and sometimes burns up by going over 2000 m/s while in (fairly thick) atmosphere... when it doesn't burn up my craft it does make it to orbit but im pretty sure it isn't supposed to do it like that (it seems to be acting like it cant detect the atmosphere) i dont have any screenshots but i can get some if you want them

Edited by guesswho2778
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3 hours ago, guesswho2778 said:

im not sure if this is intended or not but early in-flight TCA is doing a really aggressive gravity turn and sometimes burns up by going over 2000 m/s while in (fairly thick) atmosphere... when it doesn't burn up my craft it does make it to orbit but im pretty sure it isn't supposed to do it like that (it seems to be acting like it cant detect the atmosphere) i dont have any screenshots but i can get some if you want them

Better share the craft file for me to test. Preferably stock, but not necessary.

Normally, what TCA does is alike to what the GravityTurn does; the algorithm is actually based on their idea.

It starts vertically until a set of conditions is met, one of which is atmosphere density threshold. Then it turns the surface velocity vector 45deg to the horizon as fast, as aerodynamics allow. And then it maintains some time-distance to current ApA. This results in a very gentle trajectory that conserves a lot of fuel, even if most of it formally lies in atmosphere, because upper atmosphere is negligibly thin.

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I was looking for some advice on how to set up TCA for a "To Obit" use of TCA.  When I experiment with TCA with I can set the engine logic so that it get to orbit with no problem.  However, when I try with a stock craft that rely on solid booster to get going I can't figure out how to get a result that doesn't end up with TCA driving the craft horizontally shortly after lifting off the pad.  Since I can get a craft with all liquid fueled  rocket to fly right with the "To Orbit" function I assume its pilot error.  Any help with how to set up the engines would be very helpful.

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I have been having this problem Galland Do you have two solid fuel boosters on diagonal? With you fins on up down left and right (from top down perspective) i do and since you said when you dont have solid fuel boosters on i think (for some stupid reason) that if so it might be the problem 

Also its 3 am so im going to bed right now thats why i didn't ping you

Edited by guesswho2778
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I was experimenting with TCA's functionality by using included the stock vessels.  I set up the "KerbalX" craft the way I thought it should be and the "To Orbit" function in TCA worked like a champ.  The ship with the solid boosters that I was having issues with was "Aeroequus" stock ship.  That ship has a first stage of 4 solid boosters and a LFO stage after the booster burn out.

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15 hours ago, guesswho2778 said:

I have been having this problem Galland Do you have two solid fuel boosters on diagonal? With you fins on up down left and right (from top down perspective) i do and since you said when you dont have solid fuel boosters on i think (for some stupid reason) that if so it might be the problem 

Also its 3 am so im going to bed right now thats why i didn't ping you

14 hours ago, Galland1998 said:

I was experimenting with TCA's functionality by using included the stock vessels.  I set up the "KerbalX" craft the way I thought it should be and the "To Orbit" function in TCA worked like a champ.  The ship with the solid boosters that I was having issues with was "Aeroequus" stock ship.  That ship has a first stage of 4 solid boosters and a LFO stage after the booster burn out.

It seems simpler to just show (and explain along the way) how ToOrbit autopilot works.
Join the stream now, or watch the recording later: 

 

Edited by allista
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I'm feeling that my explanations in the stream are... well, terrible. So I'll reiterate in text:

  1. Indeed, the trajectory lies mostly within the atmosphere, but that's OK, since mostly it's upper atmosphere with negligible drag. What's more important, along such a trajectory the component of thrust that works against gravity is minimal, which allows considerable fuel conservation.
  2. Solid boosters cannot be controlled. Cannot be (de)throttled, cannot be shut down. Thus, the only thing that's left to TCA is to try to rotate surface velocity with fins (that don't give that much torque) while staying within 5deg cone from it. This results in mostly vertical ascent until the boosters are separated.
  3. When TCA at last receives control over thrust and enough control authority it quickly turns surface velocity where it should be by that time and then simply keeps ApA at some 40-70s before the craft. This also conserves fuel, as often just a fraction of the full thrust is required at that phase, and rocket engines' Isp is usually better in upper atmosphere and in space.
  4. Following this route TCA brings the ship to an almost circular sub-orbital trajectory, leaving just a few m/s of dV for circularization.

All hail @AndyMt and @Overengineer1 -- the developers of the GravityTurn -- for sharing this strategy with me!  :cool:

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I'll throw my hat into the ring of "people who have been experiencing issues with the to obrit autopilot". Like @Galland1998 was saying, many of my rockets seem to nose dive right after liftoff. I'm not entirely sure what has been causing the issue, I need to test it more thoroughly (which I unfortunately won't have time to do until sometime next week). However, I can at least offer a work around I've figured out. If you set up and run TCA to orbit autopilot, while leaving TCA disabled, then manually launch the rocket and enable TCA right after liftoff, the rest of the gravity turn should work like a charm. Hopefully that can help some people out, and maybe give @allista a place to start looking. It seems that whatever is going wrong is occuring when the rocket is either landed, or just switching from landed to flying.  

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you ive had a few rockets nose dive into the ground a few seconds after launch (rarely but it still happens) i do like the new strategy it just wasn't what i remember TCA doing in the past so i thought i should come here to see if it was a problem or not

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7 hours ago, TBenz said:

I'll throw my hat into the ring of "people who have been experiencing issues with the to obrit autopilot". Like @Galland1998 was saying, many of my rockets seem to nose dive right after liftoff. I'm not entirely sure what has been causing the issue, I need to test it more thoroughly (which I unfortunately won't have time to do until sometime next week). However, I can at least offer a work around I've figured out. If you set up and run TCA to orbit autopilot, while leaving TCA disabled, then manually launch the rocket and enable TCA right after liftoff, the rest of the gravity turn should work like a charm. Hopefully that can help some people out, and maybe give @allista a place to start looking. It seems that whatever is going wrong is occuring when the rocket is either landed, or just switching from landed to flying.  

This is extremely weird! :0.0:

The liftoff is the simplest phase of them all. As always, I would like to have a .craft file of a rocket that does what you describe.

Anyways, thanks for that observation, I'll start looking there...

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Hej @allista

Nice work &)! I've been looking for a slimmer alternative to Mechjeb for a long time and now I found it. I especially like the user interface.

ToOrbit seems to work so far here.

But rendezvous doesn't work: 

If I start a rendezvous maneuver from the ground (Lander on Mun -> mothership in orbit around Mun), KSP freezes immediately and I can only kill the task hard.
As a test I flew with the same spaceship via ToOrbit from the Mun first into an orbit close to the target mothership. That worked. After that I started a Renezvous again, which worked in the beginning. But after some manoeuvres, which were apparently not "perfect" enough for TCA and which repeated it over and over again, KSP froze again and was only killed hard.

Unfortunately I can't serve with logs, because after the freeze of KSP nothing is written into the log...last messages are normal status messages from TCA like:

$ less /.../KSP.log
.
.
.
[LOG 14:18:51.710] getObtAtUT infinite UT on elliptical orbit UT: Infinity, returning NaN
   at System.Environment.get_StackTrace()
   at Orbit.getObtAtUT(Double UT)
   at Orbit.getRelativePositionAtUT(Double UT)
   at CelestialBody.getTruePositionAtUT(Double UT)
   at Orbit.getTruePositionAtUT(Double UT)
   at ThrottleControlledAvionics.TrajectoryCalculator.SqrDistAtUT(.Orbit a, .Orbit b, Double UT)
   at ThrottleControlledAvionics.TrajectoryCalculator.NearestApproach(.Orbit a, .Orbit t, Double startUT, Double fromUT, Double toUT, Double minDist, Double ByRef ApproachUT)
   at ThrottleControlledAvionics.TrajectoryCalculator.ClosestApproach(.Orbit a, .Orbit t, Double fromUT, Double minDist, Double ByRef ApproachUT)
   at ThrottleControlledAvionics.RendezvousTrajectory.update()
   at ThrottleControlledAvionics.RendezvousTrajectory.UpdateOrbit(.Orbit current)
   at ThrottleControlledAvionics.TrajectoryCalculator`1.update_trajectory(Boolean reset)
   at ThrottleControlledAvionics.RendezvousAutopilot.update_trajectory(Boolean reset)
   at ThrottleControlledAvionics.RendezvousAutopilot.Update()
   at ThrottleControlledAvionics.TCAModule._Update(System.Action update_action)
   at ThrottleControlledAvionics.TCAModule.OnFixedUpdate()
   at ThrottleControlledAvionics.ModuleTCA+<>c.<OnPreAutopilotUpdate>b__91_0(ThrottleControlledAvionics.TCAModule m)
   at System.Collections.Generic.List`1[[ThrottleControlledAvionics.TCAModule, ThrottleControlledAvionics, Version=3.5.7.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null]].ForEach(System.Action`1 action)
   at ThrottleControlledAvionics.ModuleTCA.OnPreAutopilotUpdate(.FlightCtrlState s)
   at Vessel.FeedInputFeed()
   at FlightInputHandler.FixedUpdate()
[LOG 14:18:51.710] getObtAtUT infinite UT on elliptical orbit UT: Infinity, returning NaN
   at System.Environment.get_StackTrace()
   at Orbit.getObtAtUT(Double UT)
   at Orbit.getRelativePositionAtUT(Double UT)
   at Orbit.getTruePositionAtUT(Double UT)
   at ThrottleControlledAvionics.TrajectoryCalculator.SqrDistAtUT(.Orbit a, .Orbit b, Double UT)
   at ThrottleControlledAvionics.TrajectoryCalculator.NearestApproach(.Orbit a, .Orbit t, Double startUT, Double fromUT, Double toUT, Double minDist, Double ByRef ApproachUT)
   at ThrottleControlledAvionics.TrajectoryCalculator.ClosestApproach(.Orbit a, .Orbit t, Double fromUT, Double minDist, Double ByRef ApproachUT)
   at ThrottleControlledAvionics.RendezvousTrajectory.update()
   at ThrottleControlledAvionics.RendezvousTrajectory.UpdateOrbit(.Orbit current)
   at ThrottleControlledAvionics.TrajectoryCalculator`1.update_trajectory(Boolean reset)
   at ThrottleControlledAvionics.RendezvousAutopilot.update_trajectory(Boolean reset)
   at ThrottleControlledAvionics.RendezvousAutopilot.Update()
   at ThrottleControlledAvionics.TCAModule._Update(System.Action update_action)
   at ThrottleControlledAvionics.TCAModule.OnFixedUpdate()
   at ThrottleControlledAvionics.ModuleTCA+<>c.<OnPreAutopilotUpdate>b__91_0(ThrottleControlledAvionics.TCAModule m)
   at System.Collections.Generic.List`1[[ThrottleControlledAvionics.TCAModule, ThrottleControlledAvionics, Version=3.5.7.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null]].ForEach(System.Action`1 action)
   at ThrottleControlledAvionics.ModuleTCA.OnPreAutopilotUpdate(.FlightCtrlState s)
   at Vessel.FeedInputFeed()
   at FlightInputHandler.FixedUpdate()
(END)

 

Maybe there is a deeper debug function in TCA?

Does anyone know this behavior? Otherwise I will have to search for mod incompatibilities...this is a longer list (but without errors nor warnings). :huh:

KSP: 1.7.2

 

Edit:

Mhh. When I was just testing if the memory was running full I started KSP again. 

TCA was still active (probably because of the crash) and ... managed to play the missing rest to the rendezvous orbit with 2 maneuvers!  :cool: ?!?

 

 

 

Thanks

 

Alex

***

 

Edited by AlexO
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2 hours ago, AlexO said:

last messages are normal status messages from TCA like

@AlexO thanks for the report. There's nothing normal about THESE messages: infinite UT should not be there.

I'll investigate; but since it may be the case that I won't be able to reproduce it, I'd appreciate if you try to reproduce the situation with stock+TCA game and share the save for me to test.

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Thanks for answering.

Update from me:

I guess there is a memory leak.

After another test with the auto lander KSP stucked again. But NOW I let it running and after 2-3 minutes KSP reacts. My RAM (16 GB) was full down to 0.5 GB (KSP uses mor than 12 GB), KSP normally only uses 6-7 GB.

My test lander crashed into the Mun :cool: but I could end KSP in a definite way and it write something to the log. Relevant lines:

 

[LOG 17:43:13.374] System.OutOfMemoryException: Out of memory
  at (wrapper managed-to-native) object:__icall_wrapper_mono_array_new_specific (intptr,int)
  at System.Array.Resize[Point] (.Point[]& array, Int32 length, Int32 newSize) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at System.Array.Resize[Point] (.Point[]& array, Int32 newSize) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at System.Collections.Generic.List`1[ThrottleControlledAvionics.LandingPath+Point].set_Capacity (Int32 value) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at System.Collections.Generic.List`1[ThrottleControlledAvionics.LandingPath+Point].GrowIfNeeded (Int32 newCount) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at System.Collections.Generic.List`1[ThrottleControlledAvionics.LandingPath+Point].Add (Point item) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ThrottleControlledAvionics.LandingPath..ctor (ThrottleControlledAvionics.VesselWrapper vsl, .Orbit orb, Double target_altitude, Double startUT, Double dt, Double start_mass, Double fuel, Double brake_vel) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ThrottleControlledAvionics.LandingTrajectory.update_landing_site_after_brake () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ThrottleControlledAvionics.LandingTrajectory.update (Boolean with_brake, Boolean brake_at_fly_above) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ThrottleControlledAvionics.LandingTrajectory..ctor (ThrottleControlledAvionics.VesselWrapper vsl, Vector3d dV, Double startUT, ThrottleControlledAvionics.WayPoint target, Double target_altitude, Boolean with_brake, Boolean brake_at_fly_above) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ThrottleControlledAvionics.DeorbitAutopilot+DeorbitOptimizerBase.newT (Double startUT, Single I, Vector3d dV) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ThrottleControlledAvionics.DeorbitAutopilot+DeorbitTrajectoryCorrector+<GetEnumerator>d__3.MoveNext () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ThrottleControlledAvionics.TrajectoryCalculator`1+<create_trajecory_calculator>d__1[ThrottleControlledAvionics.LandingTrajectory].MoveNext () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at AT_Utils.ComputationBalancer.Update () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

 

Maybe it helps.

 

I'll try to reproduce this in stock. 

 

Alex

***

 

Edit:

 

I have now tried again with a stock installation (incl. Making History and Breaking Ground).

Mods only (per CKAN):

  • ThrottleControlledAvionics 3.5.7.0.1
  • ModuleManager 4.0.2 (dependency)
  • AT-Utils 1.8.1 (dependency)
  • ConfigurableContainers Core 2.4.6.0.1 (dependency)
  • HyperEdit 1.5.8.0 (to quickly recreate the situation)

KSP gets stuck again.
Situation remains the same as before:

  • Rebuild stock lander
  • set all TCA modules active in VAB for lander
  • send lander to 20000 m orbit around the mun by hyperedit
  • Try to land with TCA autolander

The lander is nothing special and stock: MK2 landing can, tank, aerospike, RCS (not perfect but there), Ladder, Large landing legs, Antenna, Solar panels, Lamps in action groups. In the original still a docking port on top of it, I had forgotten it now in the test.

Memory is visibly full, Linux is swapping to disk (doesn't do it on my system otherwise). Player.log says "OutOfMemoryException: Out of memory".

Save and Player.log: TCATest.zip or http://www.mediafire.com/file/tss8inmsmi5cyjz/TCATest.zip/file

 

I support you with testing if needed.

Edited by AlexO
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4 hours ago, AlexO said:

The lander is nothing special and stock: MK2 landing can, tank, aerospike, RCS (not perfect but there), Ladder, Large landing legs, Antenna, Solar panels, Lamps in action groups. In the original still a docking port on top of it, I had forgotten it now in the test.

Looks like you've used MH and or BG expansions in the craft, which I don't have. But if you say it's that easy to reproduce in stock, I'll just recreate the situation myself.

Thanks for thoroughness!

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If you want, I can reproduce the whole thing without MH and BG. But since I paid for these DLCs, it would be rather cool if TCA works with them.

 

I'm testing ...

 

 

Edited by AlexO
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8 hours ago, AlexO said:

If you want, I can reproduce the whole thing without MH and BG. But since I paid for these DLCs, it would be rather cool if TCA works with them.

Sure, no question here; If we find that it's DLC-specific, I'll still fix it :D

8 hours ago, AlexO said:

I'm testing ...

Same here

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On 6/22/2019 at 1:49 AM, allista said:

This is extremely weird! :0.0:

The liftoff is the simplest phase of them all. As always, I would like to have a .craft file of a rocket that does what you describe.

Anyways, thanks for that observation, I'll start looking there...

I'll try to get a stock craft for you exhibiting the bug soon, but I probably won't have the time for it until Wednesday. On the plus side, I take my testing seriously, so I should have a relatively thorough report about what seems to trigger it and what doesn't. Also, the story gets stranger. Reading over that you used GravityTurn's logic, I remembered that several patches prior I experienced the same issue with GravityTurn, when TCA was also enabled. That is to say, my rockets would flip over and crash almost immediately even when GravityTurn was the mod in primary control of flight, and TCA was just running it's stability features and not any autopilots. Unless that is just some very odd fluke, I'm lead to believe that the issue lies in some other part of TCA going haywire at launch, and not a bug in the To Orbit autopilot.

I will admit that I don't fully understand all the other bits and pieces of TCA, the VTOL assist and flight stabilization and whatnot, and I usually leave all that as defaulted to on. My guess is that one of those is causing the issue, and not the thrust balancing code either, as the aerodynamic control surfaces are always accomplices to the death flip. I'll see if I can't single out one of those as problematic, once I figure out how the replicate the issue. But if there is something that I should really have turned off during launch, and this is just Id-10T error on my end, that would be good to know too.

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