allista

[1.7] Throttle Controlled Avionics

Recommended Posts

allista, is there anyway you could keep crafts hovering when you switch to another craft that's within physics range?

Vertical velocity and mechjebs translatron can do this, but those require your craft to be completely balanced.

Reason i ask is because i'd love to be able to land on this thing while it's in the air :)

http://i.imgur.com/K7Vs7DR.jpg

Unfortunately, current architecture of TCA does not allow it, as TCA is an addon, meaning there's only one instance of it running that handles only the active vessel. If it was implemented as a part module, it could do it, but I don't know how several instances running at once would affect performance. I expect that 3-4 instances would already cause a frame rate drop. And there's also a compatibility problem: converting to a part would deprive all current vessels from TCA functionality.

Need to think about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wow, that thing is massive! How did you get that to Laythe???

B9 has some very efficient and powerful engines, I guess)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Need to think about it.

khEQupy.gif

Wow, that thing is massive! How did you get that to Laythe???
B9 has some very efficient and powerful engines, I guess)

It uses scaled up B9 L2 Atlas engines i made for it, they're twice as powerful as B9's HX-HPD engines :cool:

And to get it to Laythe i had to send several refueling frigates.

Edited by The Space Man

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello to all.

I am having a 'strange' problem with the new release. My KSP crashes out just prior to the display of the final screen, where you start game, or settings....

The previous version works just fine, and that is what I am having to keep reverting back to.

I am running a lot of mods and have started elimination tests to try and see who the culprit is.

Has anyone had anything like this,and if so what was the cause....

The error log(s) are not showing anything that is pointing to any type of problem(s).

This mod is fantastic and I am happy to stay with what is working, but I will need to upgrade at some point so I need to get this one figured out...

thanks in advance for any and all help...

cheers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hello to all.

I am having a 'strange' problem with the new release. My KSP crashes out just prior to the display of the final screen, where you start game, or settings....

The previous version works just fine, and that is what I am having to keep reverting back to.

I am running a lot of mods and have started elimination tests to try and see who the culprit is.

Has anyone had anything like this,and if so what was the cause....

The error log(s) are not showing anything that is pointing to any type of problem(s).

This mod is fantastic and I am happy to stay with what is working, but I will need to upgrade at some point so I need to get this one figured out...

thanks in advance for any and all help...

cheers.

It is strange that logs don't show anything. Even the output_log.txt (Player.log on linux)? This log should at least have a crash backtrace at the top somewhere.

And I can't think of a way by which TCA could crash the game at loading screen, considering the addon is started only in the flight scene.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

allista, thanks for the reply.

I have gone through the logs, output_log.txt and still have not found anything. When i get back to testing it, I will save all logs and put in my dropbox. maybe if you have a minute, you can look and find it...

I really enjoy your mod. This finally makes vtol's workable and fun....

many thanks and cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I see from your screenshots (the red dot on the icon), you have enabled TCA.

But TCA does it's work by constantly tweaking thrust limiters. No wonder it conflicts with the kOS commands. Just doable TCA during the kOS program execution and all should be fine.

*also, TCA does little for a ship with a single engine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like to add something to the conversation on converting to a part module conversation.

Firstly, there are plenty of ways to mitigate current vessels from not having it. KAS, KIS and something else I was reading, can't remember now where, that allows you to VAB edit craft and push changes to vessels in flight. Conceivably you could even EPL recycle a craft and replace it with the harvested rocket parts and an updated craft file.

Second, giving the mod a part allows other mods to play with it like DangIt! In reality they use redundant autopilot controls, in case of failures. I like being able to have MJ or TCA fail on me, makes me need to think on my feet.

Thirdly, adds value to the functionality given by this mod, as having a part means the functionality now has a cost per vessel.

And finally, just a sort of counter argument to you allista. Yes I agree that running 3 - 4 instances of the mod would be silly. And I know that people will do it. But I also think that they should EXPECT problems. Too often when first trying a mod a user tries to do something crazy, like 150 karbonite drills. In those cases I don't think the mod author can be held at fault for the reduced frame rate. However, I do see having at least the possibility of 2 instances of the mod to be quite useful, when co-coordinating two craft and needing to switch vessels. Even if you set a limit for two modules to run simultaneously. Come to think of it even capping it at one would be great, because then you could switch to a kerbal or another craft and the hovering craft wont fall out of the sky. Can anyone say target practice?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'd like to add something to the conversation on converting to a part module conversation.

Firstly, there are plenty of ways to mitigate current vessels from not having it. KAS, KIS and something else I was reading, can't remember now where, that allows you to VAB edit craft and push changes to vessels in flight. Conceivably you could even EPL recycle a craft and replace it with the harvested rocket parts and an updated craft file.

Second, giving the mod a part allows other mods to play with it like DangIt! In reality they use redundant autopilot controls, in case of failures. I like being able to have MJ or TCA fail on me, makes me need to think on my feet.

Thirdly, adds value to the functionality given by this mod, as having a part means the functionality now has a cost per vessel.

And finally, just a sort of counter argument to you allista. Yes I agree that running 3 - 4 instances of the mod would be silly. And I know that people will do it. But I also think that they should EXPECT problems. Too often when first trying a mod a user tries to do something crazy, like 150 karbonite drills. In those cases I don't think the mod author can be held at fault for the reduced frame rate. However, I do see having at least the possibility of 2 instances of the mod to be quite useful, when co-coordinating two craft and needing to switch vessels. Even if you set a limit for two modules to run simultaneously. Come to think of it even capping it at one would be great, because then you could switch to a kerbal or another craft and the hovering craft wont fall out of the sky. Can anyone say target practice?

Well... I have to say, I'm almost convinced :)

But this will be a serious overhaul which will take time...

Ah, well, not almost, apparently :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm still happy either. I'm mostly glad you took over maintenance/development.

You can also physical damage to the tca unit to the DangIt! support argument as further failures for fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First, this is the best mod I've seen for controlling my horribly balanced craft. I LOVE this mod; it is so great. I am many steps closer to developing my flying fortress/ giant exploration ship.

might i suggest a few options?

Davon throttle control systems is a mod similar to this, but it handles awkwardly, is difficult to use and seems (to me) very bad at balancing the engines of my vessel. i read the faq and still my ship lifts off and fly's, usually backwards, to its death. however it brings up some very cool and interesting mechanics. one is auxiliary throttles that control engines bound to those throttles. this is mostly unnecessary in your mod with the vertical control system, but my point is this: I need to control certain engines very differently from my main forward engines. while i can set those engines to manual control, if i throttle down because i want to slow my craft or hover in place, my upward engines no longer have throttle to make them work. so, now i have a ship, slowed down in the forward direction (yay), but now it is falling out of the sky (boo).

with this point I bring up the suggestion of a "full control" option. maybe another window pops up out of the main window that lets me control this option. The "full control" option would take, as suggested by the name, full control of the engines assigned to be under it(the option), with an alternate throttle assigned to those engines.

the throttle would be set to 100% so the thrust limiters your system works with would have all the thrust it needs to work. the user, then, could control vertical velocity with those engines and still steer with the main engines forward/backward/whatever direction, without worry of falling out of the sky when throttled down.

Another suggestion would be pitch based altitude control where pitching up, while this option is active, would cause the upward engines to increase in power and attempt to make the craft ascend. this would also affect pitching down where doing so would not propel the craft down but decrease the thrust so the craft descended in a slower controlled manner. another addition to this option would be max pitch control, if you so choose to add, and max ascent/descent velocity control where when the user pitches up the maximum upward velocity that can be achieved is set, and anywhere within the min/max pitch that the user can rotate is a gradient of the max upward/downward velocity. For example the max pitch is set to 20 degrees and the minimum is set to -20 degrees and the max vertical velocity is set to 10 m/s and -10 m/s. at 0 degrees (flatly oriented) the vertical velocity attempts to rest at 0. at a 20 degree pitch the vertical velocity rests at 10 m/s. at -20 degrees the velocity rests at -10 m/s. at 10 degrees the vertical velocity goes to 5 m/s because the angle is half of it's max so the velocity is half of its max.

That's all, thanks for reading. i hope you implement these abilities. it would make piloting huge hovering vehicles much easier, especially those that must maintain a certain pitch and roll like heli-carriers, so that other vehicles don't fall off.

P.S. the multiple instances of the system, I believe, is a good idea. it would make take off and landing on a larger hovering vehicle certainly easier and I believe that my computer could easily handle many instances of it.

Ok, thanks again. I look forward to your reply.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't upgraded my KSP installation yet, so I don't know how much time will it take to fix all compatibility issues. Depending on the extent of the API changes I may be able to update TCA in a couple of days, up to a week maybe. Sorry for the delay, too much work(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
First, this is the best mod I've seen for controlling my horribly balanced craft. I LOVE this mod; it is so great. I am many steps closer to developing my flying fortress/ giant exploration ship.

might i suggest a few options?

Davon throttle control systems is a mod similar to this, but it handles awkwardly, is difficult to use and seems (to me) very bad at balancing the engines of my vessel. i read the faq and still my ship lifts off and fly's, usually backwards, to its death. however it brings up some very cool and interesting mechanics. one is auxiliary throttles that control engines bound to those throttles. this is mostly unnecessary in your mod with the vertical control system, but my point is this: I need to control certain engines very differently from my main forward engines. while i can set those engines to manual control, if i throttle down because i want to slow my craft or hover in place, my upward engines no longer have throttle to make them work. so, now i have a ship, slowed down in the forward direction (yay), but now it is falling out of the sky (boo).

with this point I bring up the suggestion of a "full control" option. maybe another window pops up out of the main window that lets me control this option. The "full control" option would take, as suggested by the name, full control of the engines assigned to be under it(the option), with an alternate throttle assigned to those engines.

the throttle would be set to 100% so the thrust limiters your system works with would have all the thrust it needs to work. the user, then, could control vertical velocity with those engines and still steer with the main engines forward/backward/whatever direction, without worry of falling out of the sky when throttled down.

I'm not sure I understand your proposal. Could you post a picture or a .craft file of the vessel in question and describe which engines you want to control differently and how in particular?

Another suggestion would be pitch based altitude control where pitching up, while this option is active, would cause the upward engines to increase in power and attempt to make the craft ascend. this would also affect pitching down where doing so would not propel the craft down but decrease the thrust so the craft descended in a slower controlled manner. another addition to this option would be max pitch control, if you so choose to add, and max ascent/descent velocity control where when the user pitches up the maximum upward velocity that can be achieved is set, and anywhere within the min/max pitch that the user can rotate is a gradient of the max upward/downward velocity. For example the max pitch is set to 20 degrees and the minimum is set to -20 degrees and the max vertical velocity is set to 10 m/s and -10 m/s. at 0 degrees (flatly oriented) the vertical velocity attempts to rest at 0. at a 20 degree pitch the vertical velocity rests at 10 m/s. at -20 degrees the velocity rests at -10 m/s. at 10 degrees the vertical velocity goes to 5 m/s because the angle is half of it's max so the velocity is half of its max.

That's all, thanks for reading. i hope you implement these abilities. it would make piloting huge hovering vehicles much easier, especially those that must maintain a certain pitch and roll like heli-carriers, so that other vehicles don't fall off.

So basically you propose the same mechanism that exists now with the MainThrottle that controls vertical speed, but instead of the MT you want to use Pitch value. If I have understood you correctly, that's pretty easy to implement.

P.S. the multiple instances of the system, I believe, is a good idea. it would make take off and landing on a larger hovering vehicle certainly easier and I believe that my computer could easily handle many instances of it.

Ok, thanks again. I look forward to your reply.

I gave some more thought to this idea and see only one, but serious issue: KSP does not allow you to switch vessels while flying in the atmosphere. So even with multiple TCA instances you simply cannot switch from your hovering carrier to another vessel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I gave some more thought to this idea and see only one, but serious issue: KSP does not allow you to switch vessels while flying in the atmosphere. So even with multiple TCA instances you simply cannot switch from your hovering carrier to another vessel.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this.... Because you CAN switch to other vessels while flying in KSP, with the [ and ] keys (default)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm not quite sure what you mean by this.... Because you CAN switch to other vessels while flying in KSP, with the [ and ] keys (default)

Not while in the atmosphere, at least in .90 and before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Um.... have you tried? Because you can... you always have been able to.

Proof (This is in version 0.90):

You can even switch through all the pieces of debris if there was an.... accident

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is kind of weird what KSP will let you do.

You can not leave a flying vessel in atmosphere and return to the space center.

You can switch between nearby vessels in atmosphere, and while throttled up, with the [ and ] keys.

Here's a test of some formation flying where I do that.

c5uvFLj.jpg

D.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.