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[1.9-1.10] Throttle Controlled Avionics


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I'm still trying to get MechJeb and TCA to play nicely with each other, and still having a few issues. Or rather, one issue. I don't know if there is workaround, or if this would have to be added, or if I'm just doing something wrong. TCA is an awesome enough mod (Thank you!) that I'm willing to get fiddly if needed.

TCA prevents MechJeb from changing the craft's orientation. Most of the time I can solve this by turning off all of the navigation options (Level, Stop, Anchor, etc) and turning off "Stabilizer" and "VTOL Assist" in "Advanced Settings" does the trick, but sometimes MechJeb just rotate the craft. I know it's TCA because disabling TCA instantly fixes the problem. But in some instances TCA still totally prevents other mods from rotating the craft, even with all of those functions disabled..

What I'm trying to accomplish is some way to have TCA _only_ balance engine thrust and gimbaling and not craft orientation. Is this possible? I figure I might be missing something, or there might be some technical reason why this isn't feasible.

(Additionally, I just checked and it also interferes with RemoteTech's Flight Computer, meaning I can't use TCA if I want to do a burn on an unbalanced craft with a non-negligible time delay.)

 

The short version is: Can I tell TCA to *totally* let other mods manage actual rotation, and have TCA only deal with balancing thrust. At which job it is *amazing*.

--

Completely skippable aside:

Just because someone is likely to ask, the reason why I use MechJeb even though TCA has some functionality overlap is that TCA's advanced functions like landing seem to work very well on VTOL aircraft, but appear to be really not optimized for my use-cases. An example being that its landing function does nice careful soft landings like you'd want for a VTOL aircraft, that drink up fuel like crazy with rockets, but usually I need a fuel-efficient hoverslam/suicide burn, which seems not to be what TCA was designed for. Hence using MechJeb.

TCA is *AMAZING* at balancing an unbalanced craft. It's also good with functions like hovering, slow gentle landings, and other things that drink up rocket fuel like crazy but are great with jets, or when you have a lot of extra fuel.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...

It may be a stupid question, but how do I get TCA to show up after I launch my VTOL drone on the runway? My main TCA window does not show up in flight no matter what I try. In editor I see the window, I can configure profile with my engine group, I see balance percentages and such but as soon as I click launch I do not see any of TCA windows and toolbar button just shows the manual. Pressing Y does nothing. I can see TCA true on a probe core, I can click Activate TCA but nothing happens. And when I revent to SPH the TCA window is gone there as well. Toolbar just shows the manual. I am in 1.10.1 career save and my science tree is fully explored.

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19 hours ago, martianrock said:

It may be a stupid question, but how do I get TCA to show up after I launch my VTOL drone on the runway? My main TCA window does not show up in flight no matter what I try. In editor I see the window, I can configure profile with my engine group, I see balance percentages and such but as soon as I click launch I do not see any of TCA windows and toolbar button just shows the manual. Pressing Y does nothing. I can see TCA true on a probe core, I can click Activate TCA but nothing happens. And when I revent to SPH the TCA window is gone there as well. Toolbar just shows the manual. I am in 1.10.1 career save and my science tree is fully explored.

Somethign similar just happened to me as well. TCA worked fine for th elast 2 months, and now when i launch my ship the Y key does noting. Neither can i activate it by ricght clicking on a acommand component.

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I think i have a clue to this bug.

Every time i use this part on my ship (SPL Heavy-Duty Landing Leg - Mk2 expansion mod) tca refuses to work any more. I've tested this like 10 times now. 
As you can see from the picture, the same ship, without said landing legs has tca working perfectly. With those legs attached tca cannot be enabled in any way.

I have also tested this using a simple ship. (comand pod, fuel tank, engine). Same effect.

I've tried looking at the config file of those legs, but nothing draws my attention.

 

log: https://easyupload.io/wxxqak

pics: https://imgur.com/a/aOL8hcZ
 

 

Please note that this is not the first time i've encountered this bug; i've seen it in action a few years back but at that time I had no idea a part was triggering this.

Edited by Nicky21
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20 hours ago, Nicky21 said:

I think i have a clue to this bug.

Every time i use this part on my ship (SPL Heavy-Duty Landing Leg - Mk2 expansion mod) tca refuses to work any more. I've tested this like 10 times now. 
As you can see from the picture, the same ship, without said landing legs has tca working perfectly. With those legs attached tca cannot be enabled in any way.

I have also tested this using a simple ship. (comand pod, fuel tank, engine). Same effect.

I've tried looking at the config file of those legs, but nothing draws my attention.

 

log: https://easyupload.io/wxxqak

pics: https://imgur.com/a/aOL8hcZ
 

 

Please note that this is not the first time i've encountered this bug; i've seen it in action a few years back but at that time I had no idea a part was triggering this.

Good hint, thanks! For me it was M2-FR Multirole Deployable Wheel from one of the Near Future <something, don't remember which one> mods. TCA works when I replace them with stock rover wheels. My Laythe drone project is back in progress.

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@martianrock

 Post the CFG file here for the faulty wheel, in code brakets. We maybe able to find some similarities.

Here is the cfg for : SPL Heavy-Duty Landing Leg

PART
{
	name = M2X_RadialLeg
	module = Part
	author = SuicidalInsanity
	
	MODEL
	{
		model = Mk2Expansion/Parts/Utility/LandingLeg/Model
		texture = Wings, Squad/Parts/Aero/wings/Wings
		texture = landingLeg, Squad/Parts/Utility/landingLegLT-2/landingLeg
		texture = model000, Squad/Parts/Wheel/roverWheelS2/model000
	}

	scale = 1
	rescaleFactor = 1.25
	node_attach = 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1, 0
	TechRequired = advLanding
	entryCost = 4900
	cost = 1500
	category = Ground
	subcategory = 0
	title = #LOC_M2X_LandingLeg_title
	manufacturer = #LOC_M2X_manufacturer_IA_title
	description = #LOC_M2X_LandingLeg_description
	attachRules = 0,1,0,0,0
	mass = 0.25
	dragModelType = default
	maximum_drag = 0.3
	minimum_drag = 0.2
	angularDrag = 1
	//crashTolerance = 7
	maxTemp = 2000 // = 3600
	crashTolerance = 35
	breakingForce = 250
	breakingTorque = 250
	bulkheadProfiles = srf
	tags = #autoLOC_500881 //#autoLOC_500881 = ground land leg support

EFFECTS
	{
		deploy
		{
			AUDIO
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = Squad/Sounds/elev_start
				volume = 0 0
				volume = 1 0.5
				pitch = 0.9
			}
			AUDIO_LOOP
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = Squad/Sounds/elev_loop
				volume = 0 0
				volume = 1 0.5
				pitch = 0.65
			}
		}
		deployed
		{
			AUDIO
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = Squad/Sounds/elev_stop
				volume = 0 0
				volume = 1 0.5
				pitch = 0.8
			}
		}
		retract
		{
			AUDIO
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = Squad/Sounds/elev_stop
				volume = 0 0
				volume = 1 0.5
				pitch = 0.9
			}
			AUDIO_LOOP
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = Squad/Sounds/elev_loop
				volume = 0 0
				volume = 1 0.5
				pitch = 0.65
			}
		}
		retracted
		{
			AUDIO
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = Squad/Sounds/elev_start
				volume = 0 0
				volume = 1 0.5
				pitch = 0.9
			}
		}
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleWheelBase
		
		wheelColliderTransformName = WheelCollider		
		
		wheelType = LEG
		adherentStart = 0.01
		frictionAdherent = 3.9
		peakStart = 0.02
		frictionPeak = 4.0
		limitStart = 7.0
		frictionLimit = 4.0
		// setting this to true will override the radius and center parameters
		FitWheelColliderToMesh = False		
		radius = 0.285
		center = 0,0,0
		mass = 0.040
		autoFrictionAvailable = False
		clipObject = Suspension_Collider
				
		TooltipTitle = #autoLOC_502076 //#autoLOC_502076 = Landing Leg
		TooltipPrimaryField = 
		
		groundHeightOffset = 1.5
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleWheelSuspension
		baseModuleIndex = 0
		suspensionTransformName = Suspension
		suspensionColliderName = Suspension_Collider
		
		suspensionDistance = 0.384//This needs to be whatever the anim distance for the piston is
		suspensionOffset = -0.384
		maximumLoad = 75.0
		targetPosition = 1.0			
		springRatio = 6
		damperRatio = 1.5
		boostRatio = 0.7
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleWheelDeployment
		baseModuleIndex = 0
		
		animationTrfName = Mk2LandingLeg
		animationStateName = ShroudedLeg
		deployedPosition = 1
		deployTargetTransformName = deployTgt
		retractTransformName = Suspension
		
		TsubSys = 0.83

		fxDeploy = deploy
		fxRetract = retract
		fxDeployed = deployed
		fxRetracted = retracted
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleWheelLock
		maxTorque = 500
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleWheelBogey
		baseModuleIndex = 0
		
		bogeyTransformName = Foot
		deployModuleIndex = 2
		
		maxPitch = 85
		minPitch = -85
		restPitch = 0
		pitchResponse = 100
		
		bogeyAxis = 0, 0, 1
		bogeyUpAxis = 0, 0, 1
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleWheelDamage
		baseModuleIndex = 0
		
		stressTolerance = 99999999
		impactTolerance = 1200
		deflectionMagnitude = 1
		deflectionSharpness = 2.0
		slipMagnitude = 0
		slipSharpness = 2.0
		explodeMultiplier = 1.0
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleTestSubject
		environments = 15
		useStaging = False
		useEvent = True
	}	
}

 

Edited by Nicky21
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11 hours ago, Nicky21 said:

@martianrock

 Post the CFG file here for the faulty wheel, in code brakets. We maybe able to find some similarities.

Here is the cfg for : SPL Heavy-Duty Landing Leg
...

 

As I looked a bit deeper my bad part looks to be from the same mod! So I assume there should be some similarities, I am not familiar with KSP enough to figure out which ones are relevant:

PART
{
	name = SMX_PoddedDeployableWheelS
	module = Part
	author = SuicidalInsanity
	
	MODEL
	{
		model = MiningExpansion/Parts/DeployableWheel/DeployableGearInlineS
		texture = Mk1Structural, Squad/Parts/Structural/mk1Parts/Mk1Structural
		texture = LandingGear, Squad/Parts/Wheel/LandingGear/LandingGear
		texture = mk2CargoBay, Squad/Parts/Utility/mk2CargoBay/mk2CargoBay
		texture = ksp_r_medWheel_diff, Squad/Parts/Wheel/roverWheelTR-2L/ksp_r_medWheel_diff
		texture = ksp_r_medWheel_wheel_diff, Squad/Parts/Wheel/roverWheelTR-2L/ksp_r_medWheel_wheel_diff
	}

	scale = 1
	rescaleFactor = 1.0
	node_stack_top = 0.0, 0.0, 0.364, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0
	node_stack_bottom = 0.0, 0.0, -0.364, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0
	node_attach = 0.0, 0.312, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 1
	TechRequired = fieldScience
	entryCost = 5200
	cost = 550
	category = Ground
	subcategory = 0
	title = #LOC_SMX_InlineWheelS
	manufacturer = #LOC_SMX_manufacturer_title
	description = #LOC_SMX_InlineWheelS_desc
	attachRules = 1,1,1,1,0
	mass = 0.15
	dragModelType = default
	maximum_drag = 0.3
	minimum_drag = 0.2
	angularDrag = 1
	//crashTolerance = 7
	maxTemp = 2600 // = 3600
	crashTolerance = 30
	breakingForce = 50
	breakingTorque = 50
	bulkheadProfiles = srf, size1
	tags = #autoLOC_8310131 //#autoLOC_8310131 = )car drive ground roll rover wheel

EFFECTS
	{
		deploy
		{
			AUDIO
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = Squad/Sounds/elev_start
				volume = 0 0
				volume = 1 0.5
				pitch = 0.9
			}
			AUDIO_LOOP
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = Squad/Sounds/elev_loop
				volume = 0 0
				volume = 1 0.5
				pitch = 0.65
			}
		}
		deployed
		{
			AUDIO
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = Squad/Sounds/elev_stop
				volume = 0 0
				volume = 1 0.5
				pitch = 0.8
			}
		}
		retract
		{
			AUDIO
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = Squad/Sounds/elev_stop
				volume = 0 0
				volume = 1 0.5
				pitch = 0.9
			}
			AUDIO_LOOP
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = Squad/Sounds/elev_loop
				volume = 0 0
				volume = 1 0.5
				pitch = 0.65
			}
		}
		retracted
		{
			AUDIO
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = Squad/Sounds/elev_start
				volume = 0 0
				volume = 1 0.5
				pitch = 0.9
			}
		}
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleWheelBase
		
		wheelColliderTransformName = wheelCollider		
		wheelTransformName = WheelPivot
		
		wheelType = MOTORIZED

		// setting this to true will override the radius and center parameters
		FitWheelColliderToMesh = False		
		radius = 0.235
		center = 0,0,0
		mass = 0.40
		groundHeightOffset = 1
				
		TooltipTitle = #autoLOC_502081 //#autoLOC_502081 = Rover Wheel
		TooltipPrimaryField = #autoLOC_6004045 //#autoLOC_6004045 = Motorized
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleWheelSuspension
		baseModuleIndex = 0
		suspensionTransformName = SuspensionPivot
		maximumLoad = 50.0
		suspensionDistance = 0.15
		targetPosition = 0.0
		springRatio = 12
		damperRatio = 1.0
		maximumLoad = 5.0
	}	
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleWheelSteering
		baseModuleIndex = 0
		
		caliperTransformName = SteeringPivot
		
		steeringResponse = 1
		steeringCurve
		{
			key = 0 20
			key = 10 9
			key = 30 3.0
		}
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleWheelMotor
		baseModuleIndex = 0
		
		wheelSpeedMax = 30//37 208 kph
		driveResponse = 2
		
		torqueCurve
		{
			key = 0 20 0 0
			key = 15 16 0 0//2.5 2.0 0 0
			key = 27 1 0 0//36 0.5 0 0
			key = 30 0 0 0//38 0 0 0
		}
		RESOURCE
		{
			name = ElectricCharge
			rate = 2//7
		}		
		idleDrain = 0.0//0.1////0.5
	}	
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleWheelBrakes
		baseModuleIndex = 0
		
		maxBrakeTorque = 6
		brakeResponse = 1
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleWheelDamage
		baseModuleIndex = 0
		
		damagedTransformName = BustedWheel
		undamagedTransformName = Wheel
		
		stressTolerance = 450
		impactTolerance = 150
		deflectionMagnitude = 1.0
		deflectionSharpness = 2.0
		slipMagnitude = 15
		slipSharpness = 2.0
	}	
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleWheelDeployment
		baseModuleIndex = 0
		
		animationTrfName = DeployableWheel
		animationStateName = InlineDeployWheel
		deployedPosition = 1
		deployTargetTransformName = deployTgt
		
		TsubSys = 1.0
		useStandInCollider = False
		slaveModules = 8
		
		fxDeploy = deploy
		fxRetract = retract
		fxDeployed = deployed
		fxRetracted = retracted
	}	
MODULE
	{
		name = FXModuleConstrainPosition		// match rotation of the upper scissor link to the steered section
		matchRotation = true
		matchPosition = false
		CONSTRAINFX
		{
			targetName = SteeringPivot
			moversName = SteeringActuator
		}
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = FXModuleLookAtConstraint			// scissor links
		CONSTRAINLOOKFX
		{
			targetName = Anchor2
			rotatorsName = Link1
		}
		CONSTRAINLOOKFX
		{
			targetName = Anchor1
			rotatorsName = Link2
		}
		CONSTRAINLOOKFX
		{
			targetName = UpperExtender
			rotatorsName = LowerExtender
		}
		CONSTRAINLOOKFX
		{
			targetName = LowerExtender
			rotatorsName = UpperExtender
		}
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleTestSubject
		environments = 15
		useStaging = False
		useEvent = True
	}	
}
Edited by martianrock
typo
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  • 1 month later...

I've been playing around with TCA lately and I'm having some trouble. I'm trying to replicate the behavior from the "Harrier" video on the first page, where you first take off using TCA VTOL modules, then gain some horizontal speed using TCA cruise mode before switching off TCA and using stock controls to keep flying. Granted, it's an old video, so the details might have changed since then.

The VTOL part works, but I can't get TCA to spin up my main engine (set to manual control) once I get to the "cruise mode" part of the video. In theory it seems that TCA should use that engine for horizontal thrust, but instead TCA only tilts the plane forward and tries to get some speed using the VTOL engines, which predictably leads to a semi-controlled descent and eventual unscheduled rapid disassembly upon landing. 

I noted that the thrust limiter of the main engine is always set to zero or close to zero, in flight and in SPH. If I adjust it manually it spins up the engine but TCA does not control it, and things don't go well in that case (for example, if I tell TCA to kill horizontal velocity, the main engine is still running, and TCA points the plane up into the sky, until it stalls).

Here is my setup, does anything come to mind? I've tried to play around with all the settings but haven't had success so far. I'm new to TCA so chances are I'm missing something fairly basic.

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Hi all, @allista

I've always seen this mod, and tried to use it several times... without success.

I've watched almost all videos, but no way, I'm still screwing up the flight whatever happens.

If anyone can point me to any video link explaining how this beast works that would be great!

Ideally, a Walthrough Video from A-Z, enough digestible for newbies.

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Its a a bit of a pain to have to remember to load all modules on every ship, as well as not being able to use TCA on any ship that existed before the mod installation. Have you given any thought to being able to install new modules over commnet?

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On 11/5/2020 at 10:50 PM, Grimmas said:

I can't get TCA to spin up my main engine (set to manual control) once I get to the "cruise mode" part of the video. In theory it seems that TCA should use that engine for horizontal thrust...

...I noted that the thrust limiter of the main engine is always set to zero or close to zero, in flight and in SPH. If I adjust it manually it spins up the engine but TCA does not control it.

You're right.  TCA has since been fixed to address that issue.  It fixes this by letting you assign a "Mode" to the engine when its "Role" is set to Maneuver only.

So with your setup, your JE1 Turbofan must be assigned its own engine group - e.g. G2. Its "Role" set to Maneuver instead of Manual Control.  Once you set it to Role=Manuever, Mode becomes available.  Set Mode to Rotation and Translation.

With engine group 1, G1, leave them at Thrust and Maneuver.  Hint: once you get the hang of crusing around and stopping, try experimenting with setting them to Thrust only.

In TCA parlance, Thrust means the engine is focused on providing lift, keeping your craft hovering.  Maneuver is directed in the horizontal, either for moving laterally or rotating, moving your craft around.

It would also be nice to put some RCS thrusters on your craft so that it can easily rotate and translate rather than relying on tilting the entire craft to redirect thrust.  You might need some mods that provide you with RCS thrusters that share the same fuel with your engines.

Once you've set it up that way, "cruising" around will be possible using TCA.  Don't forget to set your maximum horizontal speed to get your craft moving in cruise mode.  And remember that Stop means ALL STOP.  Your craft will refuse to budge.  If you want to nudge your aircraft around, Stop, then once stopped, toggle Stop off.

But if you want to use Manual Control for horizontal engines instead...

A note when setting Role=Manual Control.  TCA uses Thrust Limiter to control engine output.  To do this, TCA will set the throttle for that engine to 100% (Full Throttle) then fiddle with the Thrust Limiter to control engine output.

For manual control engines, always set the their Thrust Limiter to zero in the editor or in the TCA Engine Profile.  You don't want your horizontal engines in full burn when you turn on TCA.  To control the manually controlled engines, bring up the TCA window, click on Engines Control, and toggle Show Manual Engines.  It would be nice to be able to assign manual engines to a custom Axis Control Group - hint,hint @allista :)

Edited by bcqJC
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  • 1 month later...

Okay, so I'm having a bit of an annoying time with TCA. OPT has an engine called the ARI-73, in which it's a multimode nuclear jet/rocket. Though (I think) due to an oversight, the air-breathing mode works in vacuum. Now the part where this is a problem...TCA recognizes each mode as a separate engine, and activates both at the same time...which is a major problem because jet engines are terrible for space. I managed to get a VTOL craft to work, but upon going back to horizontal mode, well, I found out the hard way TCA activates both engine modes at the same time, and so long as TCA is active I can't force the air-breathing mode off as TCA just reactivates it almost immediately.

Is there a way to make TCA ignore engines that you don't want it to touch? Or is it not possible?

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11 hours ago, Caerfinon said:

Assign the engines to a different tca group and then change that groups behaviour. Perhaps manual and set the thrust to off?

Unable. TCA is activating both engine modes of a single engine at the same time. Setting the engine to its own group doesn't fix the issue of it activating both Air-Augmented Mode and Closed-Cycle Mode at the same time.

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When I use a multi-mode engine TCA uses only the mode that I have active. When I switch modes it operates only the mode I've selected. As seen below;

Air BreathingpNukoRw.png

The two modes are never active at the same time.

How does your engine display from OPT display in the TCA edit engine groups?

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2 minutes ago, chaoseclipse01 said:

make TCA ignore certain engines and never touch them

can you change the ones you want off to manual and the set thrust on them to zero?

or do you get better results by turning smart engines off? I don't use this setting in my example.

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5 minutes ago, Caerfinon said:

can you change the ones you want off to manual and the set thrust on them to zero?

or do you get better results by turning smart engines off? I don't use this setting in my example.

I see now, Smart Engines kept on activating both engine modes at the same time and kept them on at all times. I just disabled Smart Engines and it finally stopped keeping both modes on at the same time at all times.

I haven't tried doing a vertical landing without smart engines on. I'll have to try that out right quick and see how well everything works now.

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On 12/20/2020 at 2:35 PM, chaoseclipse01 said:

I see now, Smart Engines kept on activating both engine modes at the same time and kept them on at all times. I just disabled Smart Engines and it finally stopped keeping both modes on at the same time at all times.

I haven't tried doing a vertical landing without smart engines on. I'll have to try that out right quick and see how well everything works now.

Smart Engines is for use in space.  It is not compatible with VTOLs.  You’ll want to keep that turned off in atmospheric flight.

 

Quote

##Smart Engines

This mode of operation is dedicated to orbital flight, so it is not recommended to enable it while flying on a planet, especially in VTOL-type ship.

When Smart Engines are enabled, all the non-Maneuver, non-Manual engines are grouped (internally) by their thrust direction, so that all engines in a group are pointed more-or-less the same way. To be precise, thrust derections of engines in a group always lie within a 90-degree cone.

The groups are mutually exclusive, so only one group is active at a time. There are three algorithms available that deside, which group should be active:

  • Rotation: minimizes amount of rotation needed to achive desired total thrust direction.
  • Time: minimizes both rotation and thrusting time, so a group with the more powerfull engines may be chosen if there's enough time to turn the ship.
  • Efficiency: minimizes rotation, then the fuel needed for the maneuver, then thrusting time, so that if there's enough time to turn the ship and perform the maneuver, a most fuel-efficient group will be chosen.

Note, that if you set up an Engines Profile with explicit engine groups, these may conflict with the Smart Engines internal grouping, so be carefull when grouping engines manually.

 

Edited by MaxPeck
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