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llamatoes

Squad have stopped caring

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I've been playing since 0.16. In that time I've seen KSP evolve from a brilliant prototype into a bit of a mess. Back then, Squad could churn out a massive update (like 0.17 or 0.18) in a third of the time, and the updates were brilliant. KSP is one of my favorite games but its pretty bad when Squad have more community mangers than developers. The latest updates have taken massively longer than the earlier ones and were pretty much dead on arrival, I appreciate that the newer updates were more complex, but at least bugfix better. And don't get me started on 64-bit version. Instead of shoving a few more buggy and broken features onto the pile and shouting "Done!" take some time out to make the current features better. As it stands what KSP needs is a few good optomization updates and making the 64 bit version playable.

Leave new features (at the moment) to modders who can accomplish far more in a fraction of the time as a hobby no less, and with far more polish.

before people shout "Judge the game, not the developers", the game is linked to the developers. Their practices affect the game.

I love KSP, but it seems the developers don't, and I want this to change.

inb4lock

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If you know what you're posting is going to cause a lock, don't post it. I'm not saying you can't think what you think, or express what you think, but doing it like this is just bad form.

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If you know what you're posting is going to cause a lock, don't post it. I'm not saying you can't think what you think, or express what you think, but doing it like this is just bad form.

If you are getting annoyed about the inb4lock bit, than you have pretty much missed the point of the post. I am criticizing Squad as developers. That largely exists to make any overzealous mods think before silencing any dissent in their echo chamber.

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I don't think [most] of the community managers are paid. Who cares if they make a bunch of mods to patrol the forums, it isn't costing Squad any time or effort. The next update is also supposed to have lots of optimization, though I would prefer that they take it a bit slower.

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I love KSP, but it seems the developers don't, and I want this to change.

Woah. I agree that there's a legion of issues (if I made a post about everything wrong with KSP and Squad, it would probably have to be split into about ten different messages due to the length limit), but I would never doubt Squad's commitment to, and love for, this game.

Squad is totally devoted to making KSP the best game they can. They're just a bit inexperienced and have strange priorities. And thought C# was a good idea. And Unity. And they don't understand specific impulse.

Signed,

9.82IsWrong

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Last I checked, we've all gotten what we've (officially) paid for. If Squad had stopped caring, they would just stop. Full stop. Shut down the website and forums and walk away.

From what I can see, that's not what they're doing. They're continuing to create.

I'm also almost certain that just about every seasoned player will have at least one aspect of 1.0 that they hate or don't think time should have been spent on. That's to be expected but it's almost certain that 100% of seasoned players won't agree on *which* features should have been done differently.

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I love KSP, but it seems the developers don't, and I want this to change.

While I can see that you're pretty upset by the latest announcement, in my opinion, I don't think that the developers have stopped caring.

This is squad's game, akin to harvester's baby. I wouldn't go as far as saying they don't care about the game.

Although, I'm with you when you say you'd like to see this change.

I was hoping for a couple, if not more, releases before the game could be called a polished and well optimized product. I was sort of expecting it to take a good part of 2015 to get there and see the 1.0 release by the end of the year.

I'm not sure of the reason for a sudden rush to get to 1.

Let's hope squad comes through and delivers.

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Earlier updates may have seemed faster and better, but it's always easier to pick the low-hanging fruit. Once they started getting into the more complicated features, it takes longer to do and more can go wrong. As for 64-bit, that's the Unity engine, not Squad. Squad only put out a 64bit version because some modders found a way to force it to run in 64bit, but forcing something to happen is always asking for trouble.

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This forum has a reputation for not putting this kind of behavior on full display. They've stopped caring about their creation? Really? Nobody, and I mean no-freaking-body believes that in the slightest. To suggest otherwise is utterly misguided at best, and just a flat out made up butthurt accusation at worst.

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I'm not sure of the reason for a sudden rush to get to 1.

I'm not sure it's ready for 1.0 either, but I can imagine a fair bit of pressure from higher up that after 4 years of develpoment, it's time to (in the words of Alan Shepard) "Light this candle!" I'm not saying it's right, but it's certainly understandable.

Edit: It's not like they're going to destroy hundreds of millions of dollars worth of real-world hardware by having "Go Fever"

Edited by StrandedonEarth

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Soo...you got a suggestion? Anything to contribute? Something that somehow either clarify problems and maybe even some ideas for a solution? An actual sample of a bugfix patch, even? I am just seeing an opinion. And anyone has their own opinions. Which kind of make it not worth a lot.

Indeed, free speech is a wonderful thing. But to exercise it without thinking, to simply give a statement of condescension from just looking at the end result of a complicate process and from there reading the very thoughts of a group of people, it is kind of a waste of free speech.

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I've been playing since 0.16. In that time I've seen KSP evolve from a brilliant prototype into a bit of a mess. Back then, Squad could churn out a massive update (like 0.17 or 0.18) in a third of the time, and the updates were brilliant. KSP is one of my favorite games but its pretty bad when Squad have more community mangers than developers. The latest updates have taken massively longer than the earlier ones and were pretty much dead on arrival, I appreciate that the newer updates were more complex, but at least bugfix better. And don't get me started on 64-bit version. Instead of shoving a few more buggy and broken features onto the pile and shouting "Done!" take some time out to make the current features better. As it stands what KSP needs is a few good optomization updates and making the 64 bit version playable.

Leave new features (at the moment) to modders who can accomplish far more in a fraction of the time as a hobby no less, and with far more polish.

before people shout "Judge the game, not the developers", the game is linked to the developers. Their practices affect the game.

I love KSP, but it seems the developers don't, and I want this to change.

inb4lock

Sometimes i really have to wonder about some posts. At some point the house is complete and building the floors is completed. When this happens the only thing left to do on your housebuilding are cosmetical changes. The same applies to programming games. It is absolutely normal that as more the game nears completion the impact of the updates become less. At the end there will be only cosmetical stuff to fix.

Also the statement "Squad have stopped caring" is pretty much a baseless one. If they have stopped caring there wouldn't have been any update since a long time ago. They last update was in December and it changed so much stuff. The next update will be the biggest update ever and yet you are saying they stopped caring?

I strongly suggest that you think your statements over and do a reality check for your own sake.

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Locking for cleanup, will reopen in a minute.

Reopened. Please refrain from resorting to personal attacks when discussing. Further personal attacks will be met with more severe official action. Discuss the post, not the poster, please.

Also, moving this discussion of KSP's development to the development forum.

Edited by Red Iron Crown

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I think it is a bit premature to condemn Squad before seeing what 1.0 ends up looking like. I won't argue that the game is in desperate need of a polish, and that the trial-and-error nature of KSP's development (I'm not going to comment on the mismanagement and backlash regarding "project V") has many of us concerned that the game will never meet its potential. That isn't up for debate.

However, I do believe that concluding that 1.0 won't be any different that 0.9 is pure speculation, and even if it was, Squad has not indicated that they will simply wash their hands of KSP once it is released, as they have stated on multiple occasions their commitment to continuing to work on the project well beyond 1.0. Apparently people do not believe Squad is capable of producing a finished, professional product despite KSP being the only software they have ever developed.

Thus the only conclusion one can come to is that threads such as these, which will, like a star, burn brightly for the first bit before fading into the red dwarf of cyclical white knighting and criticasting, is a result of a chronic PR issue that Squad has never really addressed.

So, before we step onto that treadmill, perhaps we could examine what Squad could do to fix that problem before we get another community meltdown.

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Earlier updates may have seemed faster and better, but it's always easier to pick the low-hanging fruit. Once they started getting into the more complicated features, it takes longer to do and more can go wrong. As for 64-bit, that's the Unity engine, not Squad. Squad only put out a 64bit version because some modders found a way to force it to run in 64bit, but forcing something to happen is always asking for trouble.

Squad put it in their game. If the game is released and it crashes when a reasonable number of mods, then it's their responsibility to fix it. When its released, and reviewer is reviewing it and it isn't working, they'll tear it a new one. Either wait for Unity 5 (which I would recommend) or begin fixing it (which i also recommend)

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Honestly, I expect there to be no Win64 version for 1.0 (opinion, I have no inside info about it). Until Unity gets Win64 support working well, there's little Squad can do about it, and it does reflect poorly on a game no longer in early access.

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Squad put it in their game. If the game is released and it crashes when a reasonable number of mods, then it's their responsibility to fix it.

No it's not, imagine General Motors beeing responsible for the car YOU broke by modding it.

When its released, and reviewer is reviewing it and it isn't working, they'll tear it a new one. Either wait for Unity 5 (which I would recommend) or begin fixing it (which i also recommend)

I know when they release it will be perfectly fine. That's what the testers are here for.

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Squad put it in their game. If the game is released and it crashes when a reasonable number of mods, then it's their responsibility to fix it. When its released, and reviewer is reviewing it and it isn't working, they'll tear it a new one. Either wait for Unity 5 (which I would recommend) or begin fixing it (which i also recommend)

Do you think reviewers are going to install a bunch of mods to review the game?

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No it's not, imagine General Motors beeing responsible for the car YOU broke by modding it.

I know when they release it will be perfectly fine. That's what the testers are here for.

Those testers weren't very good when .21 and .22 both rocked up pretty much unplayable because of the bugs

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Those testers weren't very good when .21 and .22 both rocked up pretty much unplayable because of the bugs

... define unplayable.

I played just fine. There was an occasional issue, but it wasn't unplayable.

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No it's not, imagine General Motors beeing responsible for the car YOU broke by modding it.

Sometimes I wonder if SQUAD wants to say something with all these "Warranty void if..." warning with their parts.

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Those testers weren't very good when .21 and .22 both rocked up pretty much unplayable because of the bugs

what are you talking about? I started playing in .21, and I have had a CTD only twice since ive gotten ksp. I have had 3 craft destroyed due to the claw, but aside from that the game runs fine.

Edit: Stock btw, I play the game squad actually made. any mod issues are not their fault.

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Those testers weren't very good when .21 and .22 both rocked up pretty much unplayable because of the bugs

I was playing this versions also and at no point there where gamebreaking bugs. Also there are no mentioning of gamebreaking bugs in the whole forum for that versions.

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Do you think reviewers are going to install a bunch of mods to review the game?

I would honestly believe that a lot of the "review institutions" would already have a large amount of people familiar with KSP at this point. :P

It kinda has a way of being contagious.

Which way it would color the review is debatable of course, and depends on a lot of things, but I'm pretty certain that the reviewers are at the very least likely to read the various warnings stating the issues with the 64-bit build if they do decide to test it. For some reason. And with all the things available in the game now, and things that will be available in the next update(s), I honestly doubt the average new player will feel a need for mods from the outset.

The only problem I'm seeing is that they're declaring the next release the 1.0 release. Instead of the 1.0RC. I really, really think they should bring back the public experimentals for just this once. If they want to catch as many odd bugs as they can before the release day, they should get the broadest possible tester base.

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