Do ANY females/girl gamers play KSP?

[Tw1]

There are genuine physiological differences between "male" and "female" in our species, I think the assumption that each gender should represent "50%" of any activity or game, or class, or whatever is, perhaps well intentioned, but likely not a realistic assumption.

This is certainly true, but interestingly, the don't amount to much. I read a fascinating book on the subject a few years back, which focused on childhood development.

There are some strange small differences, like girls having greater numbers of colour sensitive eye cells, and boys starting out relying more on the amygdala, and where as girls start to use the frontal cortex more. Though what was interesting was the books focus- childrens' education. It suggested that the way science is taught could have something to do with why there is still greater numbers of males doing the subject. It was a very interesting read, even for someone like me who tends to take anything talking about the differences between genders with a grain of salt.

I don't recall the details of the recommendation, but something like KSP which introduces the intriguing phenomena first, rather than explaining cause, then effect, then result, does seem something a long the lines of what the author was talking about.

While more features on planet definitelly would be a plus, and more sciencey things to do, I'm hesitant to fill the kerbol system with life. That would be a bit of an immersion breaker maybe.

Edited February 1, 2015 by Tw1

[numerobis]

Whales on Laythe, gardens on Eve -- that would be fantastic! More than one facial structure on Kerbals would up the visual appeal too.

A more inclusive game is a more fun game. I spend at least 5x as much time on the forums as in-game; the community is what gets me coming back. A homogenous community is boring.

One minor nitpick: I find it exceedingly unlikely that anything will get my cats to really enjoy KSP themselves (though one enjoys when I play, since that's a time for her to sleep in my lap). So when you say "females", I'm assuming you mean women in particular.

[razark]

So when you say "females", I'm assuming you mean women in particular.

Well, if it was just "women", that would exclude younger female players.

[Dispatcher]

Just some trivia: perhaps the poll is skewed. The people participating in the poll are some fraction of the registered forum members; many members of either gender might feel no reason to respond to the poll, or probably don't even know it exists. We don't know the gender ratio of non registered forum guests or of those KSP players who don't visit the forum. While one could assume that the forum ratio would extend beyond the forum itself, we simply would not know with certainty. The net result is that the percentage of woman/ girl KSP players might be at, or more, or less than the approximate 7.5% here at the forum. Any families playing KSP may imply a higher percentage than the 7.5% figure.

[Charzy]

I can't understand the train of thought that could lead somebody to believe that there isn't a single woman playing a game as well known as this. I mean, I get that there's fewer women who play video games than there are men, but it'd be like wondering if even a single person from, say, Ireland plays KSP. After all, Irish people make up far less of the gaming community than women do.

[Norpo]

Just some trivia: perhaps the poll is skewed.

All polls, in all of history, for all of time before, and perhaps forever, has been, and will be skewed.

They've always been skewed towards "people who actually vote in polls and found the polls interesting", one could argue there's the possibility that the average non-poller has different opinions than the average poll-voter, due to generalized differences, (e.g on average those who don't take polls like pie more because of (reason). ) but those differences can't be quantified, because you won't get them to take a poll. There's also the possibility it's not, though.. Accessability of polls (in this case, having a registered account on the forums) is also a factor here.

Of course, due to the inherent nature of it (see: getting people who don't take polls to take a poll), there's really no way to know. Even if you held someone at knifepoint and threatened to get them to vote, you'd get the result of "someone who doesn't vote in polls and is currently being held at knifepoint", so you can't really get accurate results from that either. Even if you did, you'd probably be arrested before you could get a good database. It will remain a mystery. Simply put, if you successfully identify someone who doesn't take polls, and ask them to take a poll, what do you think will happen? (Hint: they don't take polls)

Perhaps we should call the results the "gender of people who have a registered account on the KSP forums and actually were curious about this thread and voted when having to choose between "male" and "female" on an anonymous poll"? That's what it is when you get right down to it.

Of course, as soon as you get to this point, you've realized you've spent 10 minutes writing a post on this subject, and that time could of been better spent. Playing KSP, for example.

[Xavven]

I can't understand the train of thought that could lead somebody to believe that there isn't a single woman playing a game as well known as this. I mean, I get that there's fewer women who play video games than there are men, but it'd be like wondering if even a single person from, say, Ireland plays KSP. After all, Irish people make up far less of the gaming community than women do.

I think I saw a poll that found that half the general gaming population is female, but women tend to play more casual games (along the lines of Peggle and Candy Crush) and MMORPGs. Men tend towards the FPSs.

[Aloriel]

<- Female (as name might suggest)

Not only am I a space nerd, I am also a computer nerd. I write (that is to say, program) video games for a living, and am currently writing a 4X space game. (Oddly, I think we're using the same space graphics toolkit as KSP)

I am also a massive gamer geek. If you tally up all the games I have had over the years, I am probably well past the 200 mark (maybe 300?). I've been video gaming literally since 1979, and a board gamer since before that. I will play almost anything that isn't overtly sexist, but focus on strategy games mostly.

Many of the comments here are exactly why we are quiet. Many are why we are becoming more vocal. The KSP community has been rather exceptional in this regard, as far as not being overtly sexist, that is. I have had minor unwelcoming moments, but they weren't overtly because of my gender.

[Axelord FTW]

I will play almost anything that isn't overtly sexist,

Now, see there. You are shutting yourself away from a lot of good games by doing that.

Some of the best games I played were sexist as hell.

[KerbMav]

I think discussing genetically defined preferences for games of the different genders is like arguing if homosexuals can be good at sports or take interest in cars besides the color of the seats.

My amateur psychology knowledge tells me that a girl with three brothers might take more interest in football as a boy with three sisters might become more successful with the ladies. *shrug*

Not only am I a space nerd, I am also a computer nerd. I write (that is to say, program) video games for a living, and am currently writing a 4X space game.

Which one and where???

Some of the best games I played were sexist as hell.

This leaves me with to many questions to even begin asking them.

But a question to both of you: What is overtly sexist? The role the female characters are playing, there demeanor or them wearing bikini-mail?

(No idea why I just had to think of it, but I believe that Alien would not have been the same with a male protagonist.)

Edited February 2, 2015 by KerbMav

[steve_v]

I'm not, but I don't really care if you are. If you like to play, play on.

Aside from the somewhat skewed poll title, I'm not really grokking why is this such a contentious topic. If you like the game, just play it.

Who cares whether you're female, male, or purple with blue spots?

Sure there's going to be variation, different people are into different things for a whole swag of reasons, no generalisations or stereotypes required.

I know plenty of females who could kick my ass at any game I'd care to name, or code rings around me.

Half the males I work with don't know how to work a mouse.

Makes no difference to me, I'll still play KSP - because it's a game I enjoy.

I suspect the whole 'bikini-mail' thing should probably go away, but by that logic so should overly-ripped testosterone fueled kill everything in sight male characters. By no means do all games do it, so if it troubles you, you really can just play something else.

Fortunately KSP contains niether

It's an unfortunate fact that some 'gamers' are just obnoxious, maladjusted or both, whether in a sexist sense or otherwise. Solution: simply not to engage those communities or individuals.

If it's fun to play, play the game and stop worring that it doesen't appeal to everyone, the dog and cat included.

Fully agree on the Alien comment BTW, (for totally non sexist reasons of course) that movie is awesome

[Umlüx]

one game i like to bring up in such a discussion is Final Fantasy 14.

yes, there is bikini mail armor, but there is also a conan the barbarian like (non)armor for males.

you can dress your female avatar in full plate armor too if you so desire. nothing wrong with a little skin, as long as you have the choice. with both genders.

or look at bayonetta. you can say this game is somewhat sexist with the skimpy outfits the heroine is wearing. but this is her personality. she knows she is strong and s.exy she uses it, lives it. and totally kicks butt while looking good.

besides, even girls like a nice rendered butt i know my GF does!

[Axelord FTW]

besides, even girls like a nice rendered butt i know my GF does!

Yours must be angular and pixelated.

What is overtly sexist? The role the female characters are playing, there demeanor or them wearing bikini-mail?

(No idea why I just had to think of it, but I believe that Alien would not have been the same with a male protagonist.)

To be honest, I'm not sure.

Some might say some outfit or behaviors are too overt and explicits.

Others might point the other way and tell you it's not up to you to judge characters and decide what they should wear or do.

You can find sexism in everything. It doesn't mean that everything is bad or even that sexism is unwanted or without value. It can certainly add a lot to video games or movies or, er, tabletop games and whatnot. Otherwise, you'd be playing a grey blob, in a grey world, doing nothing. Gender roles are self reinforcing, I think, for a few reasons and since they aren't going away, might as well use them and tweak them and mold them around and see what you get. You know, the artist's prerogative.

The example you use, Alien. No, the movie would not have been the same if Sigourney hadn't been in the lead role. Another woman and it would have been different, lest a man or an android (applicable).

Edited February 2, 2015 by Axelord FTW

[Umlüx]

not with AMD VSR

[Streetwind]

or look at bayonetta. you can say this game is somewhat sexist with the skimpy outfits the heroine is wearing. but this is her personality. she knows she is strong and s.exy she uses it, lives it. and totally kicks butt while looking good.

To expand on this, here's a fun fact: Bayonetta is a prime example of cultural bias in perception.

In Japan, you could ask any person whether they find Bayonetta's portrayal to be objectifying or degrading, and they'd simply look at you in pure confusion. Within the Japanese culture, which enjoys a strange and borderline schizophrenic duality of extreme politeness and prudery together with a very liberated view of sexuality as a whole, suggesting such a thing makes absolutely no sense. Much to the contrary, Bayonetta is drawn the way she is because to the average Japanese, she represents the exact opposite of female objectification. She is designed to represent the epitome of a woman who is strong, self-realized, and free from very classical submissive female roles like geishas, schoolgirls, stereotypical housewives or adult manga moe-bombs. Believe me, if you want a female reduced to a ... object in Japan, you can get that in the nearby corner store's magazine section... and it'll look completely different from Bayonetta.

Then along comes western media and goes "omg a pantyshot in a videogame, clearly this is a cheap ploy to pander to sexist gamers!" Which might well be true if this game had been produced in the west, because that is a thing that exists over here. But it wasn't, and it's this cultural difference which so often gets swept under the rug when discussing this kind of thing.

In other news, I'm surprised this thread is still alive! I had thought it got its premise completely dismantled on page 1 already...

Edited February 2, 2015 by Streetwind

[steve_v]

I write (that is to say, program) video games for a living, and am currently writing a 4X space game.

As someone actively looking for a good 4X, or recommendations thereof, I suggest you spill the beans on this project of yours

[vexx32]

This thread is, to be frank, all over the place. The answer to OP's question is, of course, a resounding "yes". It would be an astonishing surprise if it were not, in truth.

This was perhaps not the most thoughtfully begun discussion, and it's gone far off track several times, not to mention that it doesn't seem to be going anywhere useful. As such, we're closing this one down for now, folks.