Having a really hard time connecting things with the strut connector

[Lucky Spacer]

Ok I have just spent 2 and a half hours trying to strengthen two stages so they don't flop on the launch pad. The top stage has four LV-n Motors attached to a TVRL400 Quad adapter. I then use 4 tr-18a decouplers attached to another TVRL400 quad adapters Which is then connected to the bottom stage. When I send this to the launch pad it flops. I guess the quad adapters are not strong? So I think no Problem I will go add three trusses to each side of the weak point and drag the strut connector between them. Can not get them to connect. Is there some magic point on the modular girdle segment I am supposed to attach to? I have tried all four sides of the end square and the thin x like cables. I have tried symmetry three and 4.

So I go: forget the strut connector I will just use the big girdle segments. Can't get them to connect back to the rocket. I have attached a picture. I know there has to be something simple that I am missing but my frustration level is off the chart right now. Any ideas about why I am having such a hard time besides that I am just dumb would be appreciated.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Lucky Spacer

[klesh]

The problem with the above is that when you are connecting the lower 4x adapter, it really is only connecting on one node, not 4. The entire top bit is then leaning on an off-center 1.25m connection = Floptown.

Additionally, those big girders aren't helping because you can't actually close a loop like that.

Try: placing 4x small girders off the side like you have them, then strut connect them to the other half of the flopmobile. Standby for diagram.

Edit: red is structural girders like you have them, blue is strut connectors, right to the side of the ship.

Also, dont get too frustrated. It took me awhile to figure out stuff like this too. It's just quirks of the game/ build facility. There aren't too many, and you'll have them figured out soon enough. Chin up, trooper!

Edited January 30, 2015 by klesh

[Lucky Spacer]

Ok so how do you create a 4 engine stage? Or what do I do to make it connect on all 4 decouplers?

[klesh]

Ok so how do you create a 4 engine stage? Or what do I do to make it connect on all 4 decouplers?

Good questions!

1. You don't.

2. You can't.

That is, in stock.

There are fairing mods that would allow a 4-engine stage (I've done it), but thats mod territory. Maybe you're comfortable trying that.

The multi-decoupler thing is kind of the same weirdness that didn't allow you to loop those structural girders like you wanted. Some stuff just doesn't make sense.

Were I building that, I would chose to put the nukes radially and use standard big decouplers for dropping stage 1. Also, the less nukes, the more efficient. I would potentially only use 2.

[Lucky Spacer]

Ok I just keep trying this time with small girders. After multiple attempts I got a strut to attach to both sides. I am not at all sure what I did differently.

- - - Updated - - -

Thank you, Thank you, thank you. I thought I was just losing my mind. Still not sure why I'm having such trouble with struts. See my next post. I was using more engines because I just don't like waiting through long burns.

[AlexinTokyo]

You can see the responses to this thread for some ideas on how to go about this.

Kasuha's post, in particular, is excellent.

[klesh]

Thats the stuff, buddy. Indeed, the struts wont work when there are parts between them, so raising the connector points just a little off the surface with the tiny girders allows you to attach both sides! At this point, that should be rock solid (if not, moar struts!) and the staging will work as you intended, look the part, and hopefully stay together.

This was an alternative design I cooked up real quick for you:

http://i.imgur.com/PJDLeGL.jpg

- - - Updated - - -

You can see the responses to this thread for some ideas on how to go about this.

Kasuha's post, in particular, is excellent.

Ooh, that is a swanky way of doing it, to be sure. I was trying to give the OP the basics version.

Also of note is the post below Kasuha's, where the poster is also advocating a no-more-than-two nuke setup. It's about the efficiency, baby!

Edited January 30, 2015 by klesh

[Lucky Spacer]

I really like the idea of radially attaching the engines. I think I will try that.

[panzer1b]

the game uses a tree format for craft, and as much as id rather have multi-connecting redundancy (then i could loose a tiny chunk of a ship and not have half fall off), for now and most likely for a long time we will have to deal with the tree system. basically there is a root part (normally ur starting part, but it can be now swapped to any part that is rootable), and everything else branches off from it or another part. You cannot have any closed loops there, so a 4 tank setup like yours is actually ONLY connecting the top to the bottom with one fo the 4 tanks. It is still able to be structurally sound, provided you strut it correctly, but it is still only connected by one of the tanks and the struts can make that connection exponentially stronger.

[Kryxal]

I seem to recall something about using decoupler - clamp-o-tron - clamp-o-tron to get around this sort of thing. Only one of the port pairs will be attached initially, but on physics load, the others will at least form a structural connection.

[Chewy]

The procedural fairing mod has parts that allow multi engine stages (the thrust plate adapter combined with the inter-stage fairing base)

[cicatrix]

KSP internally uses tree structure to organize parts of your craft. So you have the root part and branches. What you are trying to do is to create a loop - to connect one 'branch' to another one. Even if your parts seem attached actually they aren't. There is only one part type that allows this type of connection (connection of two different 'branches') - a strut.

Girders won't work here. Moreover, even if this was possible, they won't come undone when your stages separate. Use struts as it's been said already.

[eddiew]

Can you run a girder down the centre (between the engines) and connect a single decoupler to that, rather than trying to connect one to each engine? Some spacetape (struts) around the edges should keep it strong enough for launch

[Skorpychan]

Also, LV-Ns are a poor choice for a lander. Heavy and low thrust means you'll be best off packing smaller engines and lander, especially with the sheer length of the things. ESPECIALLY if you're using FOUR of them.

I do interplanetary burns on two, with a lot of cargo. You're losing efficiency by packing more heavy engines.

[chrisb2e9]

the original idea can work, if you use docking ports. Only one engine will be attached at first, but when the ship loads, the docking ports all attach and then all 4 engines would be attached.

Hope that makes sense, usually I would add a picture but I'm at work and don't have any to add.

Having said that, I would just attach them radially. Less work.

[Lucky Spacer]

So First off I really appreciate the help and Ideas.

I have found flying my little contraption that it does have a problem when I execute the 4 seperators at the same time. Over half the time it just explodes. With these kinds of results I am just going to go Radially attaching multi engine stages. They are reliable and a heck of a lot easier to build.

On a side note I like using multiple LV-Ns because I just hate supper long burn times. I find them a lot like watching paint dry.

[Skorpychan]

But why not just use an engine with worse ISP but better TWR and higher thrust? The more engines you add, the longer the burn times get.