A Sneak Peek at Resources

[Yellowburn10]

I still see nothing.

And then there's people like Brotoro who are colorblind and can't see the reddish color of the mun. :/

Keep in mind that that might not end up as red in the final version though.

[Brotoro]

I'm a big fan of cross-hatching.

[PDCWolf]

I still see nothing.

See that horrendously selected and then recolored yelowish-green thing? well, that's red on the image, red with about 60% transparency, so that it works as an overlay.

[Brotoro]

THAT I can see.

Wow...it's huge. I was just looking for patches of red.

[PDCWolf]

THAT I can see.

Wow...it's huge. I was just looking for patches of red.

Yeah, they probably (i actually hope) turned the spawn rates up for the screenshot so that it is easier to see (for people that can already see red that is).

[BudgetHedgehog]

I should point out that RoverDude (who is doing the resources thingy) has already informed Max about the inaccessibility of it to colourblind people. Not to mention that red will be hard to see on Duna, purple will be hard to see on Eve, white will be hard on Eeloo etc etc.. They should hopefully come up with a nice solution amenable to everyone

[RedPine]

Is the endgame purpose of resources to allow constructing vessels, repairing vessels, or merely to fuel vessels?

Will the collection of offplanet resources be required to build specialized parts in the VAB?

Can resources be shipped to Kerbin to make money without doing any contracts?

How are you going to construct a resource system that is simple enough to be used by newbie stock players, but complex enough to interest players familiar with resource mods?

Will rovers FINALLY be useful? When using existing mods I find short hopes on L+O engines to be safer and more efficient than wheels.

[NecroBones]

Red by itself shouldn't be too bad for colorblindness, in the sense that the most common form is red/green colorblindness, where reds and greens become difficult to distinguish. That is, if they're having to pick out red against a green background (such as on Kerbin or Minmus), then that could really suck for some people, but it might not be so bad in other places, such as Mun or Dres where the background is grey.

But this is a problem with color-coding in general. It works great for people with normal color vision, but opens a whole can of worms for accessibility for the minority who have various color sensitivity deficiencies.

[Vanamonde]

Merged into the existing thread for this news.

[Hyomoto]

I didn't realize this was even on the menu for 1.0. I am still a bit confused on the matter.

[Aragosnat]

I didn't realize this was even on the menu for 1.0. I am still a bit confused on the matter.

Enjoy in your confusion. Be happy we are getting food from our Münions to supply the ever hungry craft called the Kracken. But, in short. None of us where aware it was back on the menu either. Just think. At some point we will not have need to farry up fuel.

[Superfluous J]

Yeah, they probably (i actually hope) turned the spawn rates up for the screenshot so that it is easier to see (for people that can already see red that is).

It also may have a limiting factor set of 0.1 percent. In the current Karbonite system I ignore anything less than 5 or 6 percent (at least, as far as I've gotten so far) and those maps are pretty patchy indeed. However the 1% map tends to cover most of the planet.

[KerbMav]

Here’s a very brief sneak peek at you can expect from the upcoming resource system in 1.0. This is very much a work in progress and may not be indicative of the final product, but we thought you might enjoy an very early look.

Now what?

Well, I am now expecting to get:

a. scanning equipment - maybe equivalent to SCANsat or not

b. overlays in map mode

c. something completely different

[Jarin]

1. Is the endgame purpose of resources to allow constructing vessels, repairing vessels, or merely to fuel vessels?

2. Will the collection of offplanet resources be required to build specialized parts in the VAB?

3. Can resources be shipped to Kerbin to make money without doing any contracts?

4. How are you going to construct a resource system that is simple enough to be used by newbie stock players, but complex enough to interest players familiar with resource mods?

5. Will rovers FINALLY be useful? When using existing mods I find short hopes on L+O engines to be safer and more efficient than wheels.

1: It sounds like stock will just be for refueling, but RoverDude's making sure there's a robust system for resource mods to link into, so I suspect mods like Extraplanetary Launchpads will have an easier time of it.

2. Probably not stock. Likely outside scope even for modding at the moment.

3. Doesn't sound efficient, but maybe with EPL manufacturing cheap orbital-delivery drop-tanks? Otherwise, probably spending more on the transport ship and fuel to move it than you'd get back. (Keeping in mind the unrefined resource probably weighs more than the fuel you'd make from it).

4. They probably aren't going to. Thankfully, as stated before, RoverDude, a champion of mod-interoperability, is working closely with the development of the new resource system.

5. God, I hope so, but I wouldn't count on it.

[RoverDude]

I prefer Karbonite to Kethane, and thank goodness Nova's (Is it Nova? I wasn't around for the 1st resources foray) parts are in.

Kethane had a cooler UI like the hex overlay, as well as the depletable reserves, but there were barely any BIG deposits, and on kerbin and Eve half of them were underwater.

Karbonite has always had the cooler parts as well, courtesy of Roverdude. You're the best!!

Just hopping in for clarity

The Karbonite parts are almost all by Nertea and nli2work - so go give them kudos if you like 'em

As noted above, already addressing the whole color-blind issue, and am pretty happy with the results. Lastly, as Max noted in SquadCast, lots of moddability under the hood - so if for whatever reason this is not the perfect resource system for you, you can take the lego pieces and craft something that better fits what you're looking for. I for one am pretty excited about using it and twisting it to my will with my different mods, both current and some new ones I am cooking up

[Errol]

Karbonite has much lower relative concentrations that take longer to recover and process, but the areas don't deplete with use. You can do the processing "on rails" while you're not controlling the active ship, but there's a real time/efficiency advantage to finding a reasonably high concentration area to set everything up.

I don't think this is true with the latest regolith. I can't find the proper release notes at the moment, but check out the OP:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/100162-0-90-Regolith-an-open-ISRU-and-Resource-framework-0-1-3-2015-01-27

EDIT: further reading:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/108671-WIP-Karbonite-Hard-Mode-P?p=1696359#post1696359

Edited February 2, 2015 by Errol

[RoverDude]

It's true of the latest Karbonite (meaning, there is no depletion), but Regolith has had depletion built in as an optional mechanic for a bit now as I needed it for another mod.

For clarity - the above comment reflects an observation on mods I make and does not confirm/deny the way something will/will not be done with stock.

[KerbMav]

.

You really are a double agent, heh?

[Errol]

It's true of the latest Karbonite (meaning, there is no depletion), but Regolith has had depletion built in as an optional mechanic for a bit now as I needed it for another mod.

For clarity - the above comment reflects an observation on mods I make and does not confirm/deny the way something will/will not be done with stock.

My mistake, I was unaware it was an optional feature. How can we enable that in our saves rover?

[RoverDude]

It's tied to the part itself - so you can just module manager it in. Idea is that not all things deplete

[basic.syntax]

Is the endgame purpose of resources to allow constructing vessels, repairing vessels, or merely to fuel vessels?

Will the collection of offplanet resources be required to build specialized parts in the VAB?

Can resources be shipped to Kerbin to make money without doing any contracts?

How are you going to construct a resource system that is simple enough to be used by newbie stock players, but complex enough to interest players familiar with resource mods?

Will rovers FINALLY be useful? When using existing mods I find short hopes on L+O engines to be safer and more efficient than wheels.

These are fantastic questions. It addresses the developer's statement from a year ago, that Resource mining should not be the career-mode end-game objective, by itself. That post did not say much else about their ideas about end-game activities. But, in the recent 1.0 goals post, the "Game Over" bullet point says it will be possible to fail. Which implies, perhaps - a goal, or some way, to win?

Does (or will) mining replace the chore of lifting load after load of fuel into Kerbin orbit and moving it around the solar system,

with a new chore, of setting up mining and processing plants all over the solar system?

I would like mining to serve more purposes than topping off fuel tanks near a planet, where I just got a contract.

Some have observed that KSP is aiming towards becoming "Space Tycoon," (referring to various other Tycoon games: Zoo, Roller Coaster, Airport, etc.) and I think that would be cool. The goals in those sorts of games are usually to expand your "empire" while finding a balance that makes everyone happy, steady income, expenses under control.

What if, as your reputation grows, the mysterious Kerbal government starts getting tired of supplying you with infinite fuel?

How about separating SPH/VAB fuel cost, from parts cost? As your reputation score increases, the cost of fuel increases. That would give new benefit to Administration strategies that reduce reputation. And financial incentive to 'get mining'

[Technical Ben]

It's tied to the part itself - so you can just module manager it in. Idea is that not all things deplete

Nice to see that is understood. It's not like we will run out of "ocean" any time soon. Though digging water out of the ground on the Moon requires movement/mining continuously, so it "depletes" in that it gets harder to reach from the base/vehicles location. Likewise an atmospheric scoop is unlikely to run out of air, but a nuclear fuel drill will probably drill up all you can get in a small area (but take years/decades/centuries for all surface deposits on a moon/planet).

So having a varied but almost unlimited resource seems to be both interesting (can move things about) and realistic (does not run out instantly).

[RoverDude]

Yup, that was precisely the design choice.

[Errol]

Right, I remember a post talking about certain drills causing depletion while other harvesting parts don't.

Now, what I have been wondering, is how will this update to stock ISRU integrate with the existing USI mods and their save games? Because if I have to start over again, I'm just going to hyperedit an RT comm net into place and edit my persistence file to give me 10 000 starting science points to get somewhat back to where I'm at.

[RoverDude]

I have no answer on that one