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[Stock Helicopters & Turboprops] Non DLC Will Always Be More Fun!


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Ok, I have a question for the helicopter and tuboprop gods - Say I have an engine. How do I get it to mirror properly?

Often times, when using the mirror tool, it only duplicates the engine on the other side without properly mirroring it and changing the direction of spin.

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47 minutes ago, qzgy said:

Ok, I have a question for the helicopter and tuboprop gods - Say I have an engine. How do I get it to mirror properly?

Often times, when using the mirror tool, it only duplicates the engine on the other side without properly mirroring it and changing the direction of spin.

When mirroring engines and props, the radial symmetry property has to be removed to be able to mirror it without glitching. I think editor extensions has a "strip symmetry" tool, but I haven't been able to find it. What I end up doing is building the engine on its own, then go into the craft file and manually delete all the "sym = blah blah blah" lines. It's tedious, so I tend towards making my engines coaxial or (best for helicopters) with few blowers and snappable blade angles, so I can reproduce them with negligible differences.

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Just now, EpicSpaceTroll139 said:

When mirroring engines and props, the radial symmetry property has to be removed to be able to mirror it without glitching. I think editor extensions has a "strip symmetry" tool, but I haven't been able to find it. What I end up doing is building the engine on its own, then go into the craft file and manually delete all the "sym = blah blah blah" lines. It's tedious, so I tend towards making my engines coaxial or (best for helicopters) with few blowers and snappable blade angles, so I can reproduce them with negligible differences.

Ah, ok. Might give that a try sometime.

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1 hour ago, qzgy said:

Ok, I have a question for the helicopter and tuboprop gods - Say I have an engine. How do I get it to mirror properly?

Often times, when using the mirror tool, it only duplicates the engine on the other side without properly mirroring it and changing the direction of spin.

I build the whole engine, I make sure I place and rotate junos and props using snap symmetry. I place one engine, then copy and place second engine, then I can move and rotate exactly, I can usually even edit both engines in place, without re-mirroring

Edited by selfish_meme
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3 hours ago, qzgy said:

Ok, I have a question for the helicopter and tuboprop gods - Say I have an engine. How do I get it to mirror properly?

Often times, when using the mirror tool, it only duplicates the engine on the other side without properly mirroring it and changing the direction of spin.

I build my engine first then turn the whole thing into a subassembly. then i can just mirror that which works really well.

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@selfish_meme @Azimech If i want to increase top speed of my fighter do you think i should try to reduce weight even further or add blowers to the engine? Not able to access game right now so i cant do any trial-error testing.

On 9/8/2017 at 3:53 PM, Azimech said:

Little current project:

 

Does the flywheel on the front of that beast actually do anything for the drivetrain? Or does it just look good? I tried a couple of car engine designs that used flywheels to ease clutch engagement and vibrations but i always found them to just increase weight without doing anything useful.

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14 minutes ago, Gman_builder said:

@selfish_meme @Azimech If i want to increase top speed of my fighter do you think i should try to reduce weight even further or add blowers to the engine? Not able to access game right now so i cant do any trial-error testing.

Whether building a turboprop or a jet, I generally go for trimming down the airframe to be as light and aerodynamic as possible, so as to take full advantage of the installed powerplant, and then add more engine if it's not fast enough for my liking.

But that's just me, others might just go for more power. Because more blowers --> more redundancy --> greater survivability.

 

BTW @Azimech I propose that we use FAR for the aero during competitions because I recall that it allows much better speed retention in turns than even modified stock aero. It's no fun decelerating to 50% speed every time a turn is made haha.

Edited by EpicSpaceTroll139
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38 minutes ago, Gman_builder said:

@selfish_meme @Azimech If i want to increase top speed of my fighter do you think i should try to reduce weight even further or add blowers to the engine? Not able to access game right now so i cant do any trial-error testing.

@Azimech may know better than me, but this is what I have found so far

  1. a graph of forward speed would show a relationship between speed of rotor, number and size of blades and pitch of blades
  2. maintaining rotor speed with more blades and pitch require more torque
  3. increasing blowers increases torque and heat
  4. increasing torque and blades and pitch increases load
  5. increasing distance of components from center of bearing also increases load
  6. increased load and heat makes bearing failure more likely

so to go faster add more blades and pitch until your rotor slows down then add more blowers, repeat until bearing fails, then back it off. There are some upper limits on blades, when it's better to go to a bigger size than add more, also your bearing needs to be closest to failure at maximum speed. If you are turning over 40 rads on the ground it's probably going to blow at max speed and shows you are probably under loaded.

Edited by selfish_meme
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On 09/01/2017 at 10:16 PM, Azimech said:

It's actually not about the precise engineering, using snap and the collider visualization tool you can have the most precise adjustment possible.

My statement was correct good sir. Using the tools available to you IS engineering. The fact is, you make a craft for certain purpose and it is designed to take the stresses for that purpose. As I said, I have seen and made RCS, thermo, antenna hinges that do not fail under normal use. As any real machine does. Any fool can break something. :D

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3 hours ago, Gman_builder said:

@EpicSpaceTroll139 @selfish_meme Yeah i agree with all that except for the FAR dealio. My planes don't work in FAR. I dont know what your doing that i'm not but they can never get enough engine RPM to get off the ground.

I've actually been doing all my testing in stock aero, and I think the performance is pretty good

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6 hours ago, Gman_builder said:

@selfish_meme @Azimech If i want to increase top speed of my fighter do you think i should try to reduce weight even further or add blowers to the engine? Not able to access game right now so i cant do any trial-error testing.

Does the flywheel on the front of that beast actually do anything for the drivetrain? Or does it just look good? I tried a couple of car engine designs that used flywheels to ease clutch engagement and vibrations but i always found them to just increase weight without doing anything useful.

I agree with what the others have written. I also want to note that the largest and heaviest fighter of WW2 was also one of the fastest: the P-47, because of its incredibly powerful engine. Not a great turn fighter though, pure boom & zoom. I don't know if the BDA AI likes B&Z, has anyone ever tested this?

The flywheel on the front: you're right, it doesn't do anything for the drivetrain. Instead it acts as a driver for my rover wheel so I can enjoy the sound of a diesel at home. It also has another purpose, check my new topic in the Spacecraft Exchange.

5 hours ago, EpicSpaceTroll139 said:

BTW @Azimech I propose that we use FAR for the aero during competitions because I recall that it allows much better speed retention in turns than even modified stock aero. It's no fun decelerating to 50% speed every time a turn is made haha.

I tend to agree, it also makes designing a proper airplane much more of a challenge. My old trick of stacking ailerons doesn't work but that's no biggy. Maybe we should help Gman_builder with his speed problem.

Also, @Gman_builder, you asked me if it would be better to use standard cockpits or design our own. If/when anyone is going to host the challenge, I wonder how great it would be to have to cope with the sometimes weird behaviour of the Take Command mod.

 

57 minutes ago, Majorjim! said:

My statement was correct good sir. Using the tools available to you IS engineering. The fact is, you make a craft for certain purpose and it is designed to take the stresses for that purpose. As I said, I have seen and made RCS, thermo, antenna hinges that do not fail under normal use. As any real machine does. Any fool can break something. :D

Meanwhile we're all waiting for your first turboprop :-P

Or is that endeavour too foolish for you? ;-)

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Did a little work towards the speed record today for stock turboprops

Stock Aero

CPfr3jr.png

Adjusted Aero

pWiwpT5.png

She was getting a bit too high in the rev range with adjusted Aero, would need to tune her better for it

Edit: topped out at 115.5ms, goodnight!

Edited by selfish_meme
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Worked on making the quitessa engined fighter more reliable (i.e. so the engine does not fall out of the nose) now makes 45rads reliably, increased speed marginally, but need to put some control surfaces I removed back, BD autopilot does not have a chance in heck of getting it off the ground

YGcfaYg.png

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1 hour ago, Gman_builder said:

As am I

 

@Azimech Someone feeling cocky? :wink: 

Not really, I tested my speed record plane in adjusted Aero and could see it would need quite a bit of adjustment to get the best speed, the first thing is because of the faster speeds the bearing is at it's limit in different places, as compared to stock Aero. I'm 70ms behind you guys in adjusted Aero, I might be even closer in FAR thanks to the streamlining, but the craft would need quite a few changes to get the best out of it.

I'm concentrating more on a stock speed record because it will probably be easier for others to compete against, if I have to use adjusted Aero or FAR for the dogfight challenge then so be it, but I don't think I will specifically tune the speed record for those regimes.

Edit: @Gman_builder @Azimech By the way I am claiming the 1.3.0,1.3.1 stock turboprop speed record in stock Aero and adjusted Aero :0.0: of 115.5ms and 206.6ms respectively, I'm sure it will only stand long enough for you guys to drag your old record holders out and show me my place! :wink:

Edited by selfish_meme
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