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Should SQUAD post all KSP announcements on the official forum?

Should SQUAD post all KSP announcements on the official forum  

330 members have voted

  1. 1. Should SQUAD post all KSP announcements on the official forum

    • Yes, that's sorta what the "official" thing implies
      294
    • No, it ends up n the forums anyway
      28
    • Other (please specify)
      9


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Wouldn't the original fans have been on the Orbiter forums? Just saying...

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And it honestly didn't occur to you that telling this tiny bit of information about the dV to exactly the crowd that has been asking for it the longest, the original fans of the game, would generate some good will!? Did you want the current mess instead!?

You aren't an "original fan" unless you were in the original orbiter forum threads.

Nah, but seriously we're all fans here, "original" or not. I agree that everyone should be informed.

Things mentioned offhandedly however are often forgotten or not seen as worth the trouble of mentioning to everyone.

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Aren't the original fans the Orbiter forum?

EDIT: Double ninja'd, with regex ninjaing my actual phrasing :P

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Aren't the original fans the Orbiter forum?

I would argue that the original fans were HarvesteR's brother, then Adrian and Alex, if we want people who was a fan of the project first!

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Posting on an official game forum is so last century.

Twitter and Reddit are where all the cool kids are.

All joking aside, I just think news from the developers should be posed first on their official forum before other sites.

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Posting on an official game forum is so last century.

Twitter and Reddit are where all the cool kids are.

All joking aside, I just think news from the developers should be posed first on their official forum before other sites.

I get what you're saying, but I also think we're putting a lot of weight behind the 'official' word here. Is our official twitter less or more official than the forum? If tomorrow we have a meeting with the /r/kerbalspaceprogram moderators and designated them our official subreddit, where would that be placed in the hierarchy?

I think it's much more reasonable to say 'I wish news were posted everywhere at the same time', which I can get behind.

Edited by Maxmaps

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I'm actually just happy that Max has offered a written commitment, on the official forums, no less, for Squad to use the Announcements forum more often. Hopefully when a tweet or SA post or 4Chan poast or Reddit toast is made alluding to some fantastical future features we here will be aware of said feature within mere hours of said information being made available elsewhere.

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I think it's much more reasonable to say 'I wish news were posted everywher eta the same time', which I can get behind.

Entirely. For circumstances when you value the voting system on redditEWWWfor example, then tell us about that through here and your other outlets.

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We'll make sure to use the announcement subforum sees more use for this kind of thing.

Thank you.

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Of course not... but I'm curious about your emphasis on the original fans part. Do you consider that makes the forum more worthy or better than the rest of the communities because of it?

Accepting the corrections above... certainly not less worthy. And that is the perception, intended or not.

I'll admit I'm especially angry (still!) because of the near fiasco with the .90 preview, caused by Rowsdower's incompetence/inattention/whatever in failing to communicate when I really needed it, and failing to follow up afterward. So it's a pattern with poor communication with Squad devs, and I'm probably projecting some of that onto you.

I'll go away now.

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I find a problem with this argument. Guesswork based gameplay exists because of the lack of actually useful, processed (delta v, final weight, final twr, etc) information. The fact that he calls that a gameplay element seems more like shielding himself from such an obvious thing rather than facing the truth and going "yeah we tell you to make rockets while blind and with your hands tied but we liked it that way in the end"
I think you're looking at the simulator aspects, and wanting to take that to its logical extent, while HarvesteR was speaking to the emotional investment a lack of complete information can build in the player, the nail-biting experience of "will I, or won't I succeed here." And then the feeling of success against the odds you can get, when you achieve an objective with BINGO fuel remaining ;)

Other games manifest this similar situation: information presented as a bar graph, instead of a number. How long until that last pixel goes away? I think these are valid choices for game designers to make. I may wish for "the answer," but not having a cold number can lead you to try something creative, and have an interesting experience, as opposed to not even trying, because the number says don't bother. (In before someone tells me to just turn off the dV feature, when 1.0 is released.)

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I get what you're saying, but I also think we're putting a lot of weight behind the 'official' word here. Is our official twitter less or more official than the forum? If tomorrow we have a meeting with the /r/kerbalspaceprogram moderators and designated them our official subreddit, where would that be placed in the hierarchy?

I think it's much more reasonable to say 'I wish news were posted everywher eta the same time', which I can get behind.

I don't think it's an issue of 'more official' but an issue of an evenness of info across the board. So if KSP twitter retweets your tweet, some Squad rep should repost it on the forum, make a special thread in the announcements thats locked just for providing that type of info. Do it on Reddit too, where ever you guys think you have an official enough presence, post the same info. So yeah, I wish news was posted everywhere at the same time.

Edit: Some players may be willing to tread through Reddit or SA or Twitter to get info, but I have never seen a thread quoting something said on 4chan.

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I would argue that the original fans were HarvesteR's brother, then Adrian and Alex, if we want people who was a fan of the project first!

Somehow, I suspect the original fans do get information earlier than everyone else, then, albeit for pretty good reasons :)

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I think you're looking at the simulator aspects, and wanting to take that to its logical extent, while HarvesteR was speaking to the emotional investment a lack of complete information can build in the player, the nail-biting experience of "will I, or won't I succeed here." And then the feeling of success against the odds you can get, when you achieve an objective with BINGO fuel remaining ;)

Other games manifest this similar situation: information presented as a bar graph, instead of a number. How long until that last pixel goes away? I think these are valid choices for game designers to make. I may wish for "the answer," but not having a cold number can lead you to try something creative, and have an interesting experience, as opposed to not even trying, because the number says don't bother. (In before someone tells me to just turn off the dV feature, when 1.0 is released.)

It should be said upfront if they think so, which they don't. They shield behind saying they actually planned it to be like that, when harvester didn't even plan for the game to have a third dimension or orbital mechanics at all.

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Maxmaps, thanks for taking the time to come here in the midst of all this frustration and at least try to communicate and work out a solution with the community here. I really enjoy the game and the community and want to see it succeed as much as everyone else, which is probably a big reason why people have been so ... passionate, for lack of a better term.

That said, I share many the community frustrations as of late. For me, it started with the announcement that Curse would be the official mod repository. This decision was made behind closed doors and the community was only informed once it was a done deal, appearing to indicate that Squad didn't really care what the community (who would actually be using the service) thought about it. Then there was the announcement that the next release will be 1.0. Long story short, I feel the game isn't even really ready for beta given the number of new features and systems being planned for a supposed 1.0 release. There have been many posts echoing this sentiment, and the lack of response on the issue leaves me (and likely many others based on what I've seen) feeling yet again that the devs have decided to basically do what they want, regardless of the community concerns. The devnotes that started this particular fiasco not only seemed to reinforced the point that the team is still dead set on making the next version 1.0, but went further with the infamous reddit poll, seeming to indicate that the devs aren't really interested in what the forum community has to say.

Like I said, I really want to see this game succeed, and I'm certain that the current frustrations are due more to poor communication than any kind of ill-will toward the forum community, but I would like to see Squad take a little more time to at least be a little more consistent in informing the community as to what is going on (as per the poll that started this thread) and also acknowledge the community concerns instead of appearing to ignore them. Silence from the devs on these issues unfortunately tends to make us assume the worst. Again, Maxmaps, thanks for taking the time to post here and address some of our concerns and hopefully work towards an amicable solution for everyone.

Edited by Lord Aurelius

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It should be said upfront if they think so, which they don't. They shield behind saying they actually planned it to be like that, when harvester didn't even plan for the game to have a third dimension or orbital mechanics at all.
I'm not sure I understand you fully: "should be said upfront" do you mean, how they sell the game? The main website says:
Introducing Kerbal Space Program!

KSP is a game where the players create and manage their own space program. Build spacecraft, fly them, and try to help the Kerbals to fulfill their ultimate mission of conquering space.

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I think it's much more reasonable to say 'I wish news were posted everywher eta the same time', which I can get behind.

This is all I ever wanted from this ordeal.

- - - Updated - - -

I would like to read how HarvesteR's mind changed, or was - changed, over providing delta-v info. I thought he made a very thoughtful case for not having it, whether I agree or not, it was a well-made argument.

Explaining a bad idea doesn't make it a good idea.

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I would like to read how HarvesteR's mind changed, or was - changed, over providing delta-v info. I thought he made a very thoughtful case for not having it, whether I agree or not, it was a well-made argument.
Explaining a bad idea doesn't make it a good idea.

I agree with you (and I think basic.syntax does as well) that not having dV info was a bad idea, but I'd still like to know why he changed his mind. What took him from "It'll ruin the magic!" to "Let's do this." Was it simply cowtowing to the demands? Did he try the Jool 5 mission and realize how unfun it is when you try to power your ships with magic? I am genuinely both thankful AND curious.

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Was it simply cowtowing to the demands?
^kowtowing

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I agree with you (and I think basic.syntax does as well) that not having dV info was a bad idea...
I didn't install KER until I wanted to design manned-return mission from EVE. I knew the tools existed, but I was having fun getting to kerbin's moons and as far as Duna, through Trial and Error and Reload. And the occasional napkin calculating. Then I did a spreadsheet, to try different numbers and understand the way the math worked. But EVE, well... after 15 times reworking a build that "looked cool" with lots of stages and asparagus, I gave up and went to KER.

I think dV readout is important, once the KSP honeymoon is over and you find yourself reverting 255 part or higher craft from Launchpad back to the VAB for tweak after tweak, until instability builds and the game crashes.

But, I want to see the "just try it!" lack-of-info preserved, for the early career game and first-time-player experience. I think HarvesteR is right, that there is an excitement you can have from not being completely sure something will work, and the result can be more rewarding when it does, than if you were SURE it should work.

The top comments on STEAM aren't about complex orbital mechanics, except in passing. They're mostly jazzed up about trying different things out, whether it works or explodes, and the WAAAHHH! expressions on Kerbal's faces :)

I think there's always this element of tension of trying to calculate in your head how much fuel you have left and if you're going to make it. It's like filling out the crossword puzzle for you.
I think there's a place for this gameplay experience, its common to other games that may use an abstract bar graph in places where they could put a number. I don't think it was "a bad idea" to try out. But, again, getting deeper into KSP and wanting to get to EVE... Jool... yeah. At that point, and experience level - I'm ready for dV readouts.

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^kowtowing

I knew that. I was anti-Kerbalizing it.

Yeah that's the ticket.

You learn something new every day

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Of course not... but I'm curious about your emphasis on the original fans part. Do you consider that makes the forum more worthy or better than the rest of the communities because of it?

Max, check the url, please. It is forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com. A community dedicated to freaking Kerbal Space Program, not cat gifs or racist jokes or whatever with maybe some KSP sprinkled here and there. It is not unreasonable to want to be informed at one place. If I want to know what is new with my favourite alpha game, I come here. If I want bathtub girl gifs, this is sure not the place I'll come to.

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Been on that site for ages, yeah. Downright pleasant if you stick to the right places in it.

...

Edit: If anything this proves that community intermingling has grown successfully. Outside of some offsite communities which have chosen to wall themselves off due to disdain for the others, but hey, their loss. I say go everywhere, participate in all conversations. Enrichment's good and one's never too old to learn new methods of communication.

I'm really commenting once again in this thread against my better judgement, but seriously Max, I'm having a very hard time understanding how an official representative of Squad is referring to a constant barrage of racism, homophobia, sexism, and just about every form of bigotry and base impulse known to man as "downright pleasant", and then making an implied recommendation that others here should delve into and wade around in that cesspit as some kind of enriching educational experience.

Meanwhile you guys seem committed to creating a kid friendly and generally inoffensive game that seems to be heading in the direction of promoting gender equality and general fuzzy bunny feelings. I just don't get it.

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