Kethane vs Karbonite

[Right]

Whats your favorite resource mining tool? If something other than Kethane or Karbonite, post what it is.

[Axelord FTW]

Kethane is easier, neat and non-intrusive with other stuff (no compatibility problems, usually).

Karbonite has the whole 'it works with everything' and 'everybody and their third cat are making content for it' shtick.

I've used Kethane for the longest time but I switched to Karbonite.

[NWDogg]

Kethane has that cool hex-grid-based map view, but past that Karbonite is in every way more fully featured, easier to use, and flat out better, in my humble opinion.

I never could really get into using Kethane, even though I had it installed for over a year before Karbonite was released. As soon as it was, though, Karbonite quickly replaced Kethane for me and I haven't looked back. The only major problem with Karbonite originally, the ugly orange blobs, was solved quite a while ago and replaced with a much more elegant biome-based system. So Karbonite for me, definitely. Are there even any other options besides these 2? I can't think of any.

[Superfluous J]

I switched from Kethane to Karbonite. I like how it doesn't deplete and how it works in the background. Those were my two biggest gripes with Kethane.

I think they're of roughly equal difficulties for a new person who's never dealt with ISRU before.

[Slam_Jones]

I prefer the simplicity of Kethane, but the mods I play with require Karbonite, soo... Karbonite.

Though for the record, I would actually much, MUCH prefer to use Kethane.

[Axelord FTW]

and how it works in the background.

It does what now?

Tell me you said what I hope you said.

[maltesh]

It does what now?

Tell me you said what I hope you said.

It works in the background.

So if you've built a Karbonite miner or refiner that can operate without any action from the player once started, it will fill its tanks and/or refine its fuels while you go do something else.

[Superfluous J]

It does what now?

Tell me you said what I hope you said.

It works in the background.

So if you've built a Karbonite miner or refiner that can operate without any action from the player once started, it will fill its tanks and/or refine its fuels while you go do something else.

What he said

Karbonite (or more accurately Regolith) has background processing. Actually what happens is, when the ship comes into focus it instantly does all the drilling and processing it WOULD have done during all the time it was out of focus.

Note this also works for Extraplanetary Launchpads if you use it with Regolith instead of Kethane.

And because RoverDude is doing resources for the stock game, I expect the same from that as well.

[Axelord FTW]

Actually what happens is, when the ship comes into focus it instantly does all the drilling and processing it WOULD have done during all the time it was out of focus.

That actually explains a lot of stuff I thought odd at times.

I was like, do I have Alzheimer or something?

[Alshain]

Karbonite is bloated. It has a bunch of large tanks and other parts you can't use because you are just going to convert straight to LFO or Monoprop anyway and you don't need to store Karbonite. Attempting to transport raw Karbonite ends up being a net loss due to it's high mass.

Kethane is balanced. It's mass is less than the LFO it produces so it's beneficial to transport the Kethane rather than the refined fuels. This means those large tanks and other parts become useful and the gameplay is more strategically engaging.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Alshain

[Right]

Karbonite is bloated. It has a bunch of large tanks and other parts you can't use because you are just going to convert straight to LFO or Monoprop anyway and you don't need to store Karbonite. Attempting to transport raw Karbonite ends up being a net loss due to it's high mass.

Kethane is balanced. It's mass is less than the LFO it produces so it's beneficial to transport the Kethane rather than the refined fuels. This means those large tanks and other parts become useful and the gameplay is more strategically engaging.

Maybe, but karbonite engines compensate for this a bit. If you construct two ships with a TWR: 2, one on Karbonite and one on LFO, they will have similar dVs though the karbonite one will be much heavier. It makes sense that a raw material would weigh more before refinement too.

Besides, I delete parts from every part mod I download (maybe except ScanSAT). Theres almost always stuff you don't need.

[RoverDude]

Kethane is balanced. It's mass is less than the LFO it produces so it's beneficial to transport the Kethane rather than the refined fuels. This means those large tanks and other parts become useful and the gameplay is more strategically engaging.

Had to quote that bit.

Having your end product weigh more than your raw material violates conservation of mass. As FC noted, loss of mass during the refining period makes perfect sense.. it's how science works. Shipping a raw material to orbit for refining is like flying iron ore on a 747 to the smelter/refinery.

[Captain Sierra]

Shipping a raw material to orbit for refining is like flying iron ore on a 747 to the smelter/refinery.

lol if I had room, that'd be a sig quote.

TBH the lack of depletability and the background mining are the two selling points for me. Also the support for NFP (albeit hard to make worthwhile at times, hint hint) is a key factor too. Went to Karbonite shortly after its release and quite happy.

[regex]

Can I have a "Your resource mod of magical fairy poop with no connection to actual chemistry is terrible" option in the poll? Arguing the merits of two fictional, magical resources that you can mine literally anywhere is ... well, it's internet-arguing.

[SmashingKirby148]

I like Karbonite better. To me, it's easier. And also, it's for 0.90.

[Fun1k]

If I weren't very lazy I would use Kethane, since it doesn't have infinite resources, thus forcing me to make big drilling vehicles to drill from elsewhere and refuel my EPL base. But Karbonite is enough for me as of now, I managed to build a self-sufficient base on Minmus and I am starting to do the same for Duna. If I ever go really hardcore (Realism Overhaul), then I could use Kethane to make it even more so.

[Red Iron Crown]

Can I have a "Your resource mod of magical fairy poop with no connection to actual chemistry is terrible" option in the poll?

It's right there, the third option. Vote away.

Arguing the merits of two fictional, magical resources that you can mine literally anywhere is ... well, it's internet-arguing.

New to the forums, are we?

[sal_vager]

Interestingly, real world off-planet ISRU proposals don't seem to be focusing on huge mining operations or trying to dig for specific materials, and are instead developing methods to extract all the materials they need straight from the surface regolith using a variety of chemical processes.

It's no too hard to imagine all these processes being handled by one machine, like the swiss army knife of materials processing.

It makes stuff like Kethane and Karbonite a lot less magical

[Alshain]

Had to quote that bit.

Having your end product weigh more than your raw material violates conservation of mass. As FC noted, loss of mass during the refining period makes perfect sense.. it's how science works. Shipping a raw material to orbit for refining is like flying iron ore on a 747 to the smelter/refinery.

It's a good thing this is a game then, well good for Kethane users anyway. I don't care if it's scientifically accurate, it's a bloated waste of memory with a bunch of parts that serve no use. Why have all those parts that can't be used (or don't need to be used anyway)?

Why have Karbonite at all? Why not just mine LFO and Monoprop directly, I mean that's basically what your doing anyway.

Edited February 16, 2015 by Alshain

[cicatrix]

Karbonite goes with some kool parts and besides, models in Karbonite are better.

[keeper]

I've been playing with kethane since i started playing ksp at .18 or 19 - im probably not going to update till v1. and then i'll switch to karbonite.

Kethane satelites dont scan when your busy elsewhere - and things dont mine aswell, as well as forever having to move the kethane base is alot to do to keep it going :/

[RoverDude]

It's a good thing this is a game then, well good for Kethane users anyway. I don't care if it's scientifically accurate, it's a bloated waste of memory with a bunch of parts that serve no use. Why have all those parts that can't be used (or don't need to be used anyway)?

Why have Karbonite at all? Why not just mine LFO and Monoprop directly, I mean that's basically what your doing anyway.

Wow... angry much? I am sorry if you find science offensive in a.. I dunno.. game that involves science. And yes, while Karbonite and Kethane are both 'magical', there's real precedent for the idea of extracting resources into fuel (whether it be hydrates, methane, alumina, etc.) - and in no universe is there any refining process that lets you extract more mass than you take in.

Now following your second point - why have any resource mod at all? Save all of those Kethane converters and such.. would not even need Kethane tanks, because you can mine LFO/Monoprop directly. Kinda a silly argument, yes?

[Alshain]

Wow... angry much? I am sorry if you find science offensive in a.. I dunno.. game that involves science. And yes, while Karbonite and Kethane are both 'magical', there's real precedent for the idea of extracting resources into fuel (whether it be hydrates, methane, alumina, etc.) - and in no universe is there any refining process that lets you extract more mass than you take in.

No one is angry. Just making the same point that Squad has all along... it's a game. Science doesn't offend me, but I don't want to see my game full parts that aren't useful. I'd rather use that memory for mods that are useful.

Now following your second point - why have any resource mod at all? Save all of those Kethane converters and such.. would not even need Kethane tanks, because you can mine LFO/Monoprop directly. Kinda a silly argument, yes?

Kethane adds a gameplay element. It's worthwhile to transport Kethane and convert it where you need it because LFO has more mass, which is a strategy that is fun to play and gives reason for the converters and the big tanks. Karbonite pretty much MUST be converted the moment it comes out of the ground, which destroys that gameplay element and might as well be pulling LFO out of the ground directly. It makes the parts useless.

Don't get me wrong, I hate the way Kethane scans. It's certainly not perfect. But it's still the better choice. Unfortunately Squad has decided to ram Karbonite down our throats.

Edited February 17, 2015 by Alshain

[RoverDude]

What's funny... is that your argument for one style forcing you to use land bases while another encourages you to move it into orbit is exactly the same argument for the other mod reversed.

i.e. Kethane 'forces' you to do your conversion in orbit because if you do it on the ground, the end product is too heavy to transfer to orbit. Same way that Karbonite 'forces' you to do your refining on the ground because the raw material is too heavy to transfer to orbit. See what I did there?

And you do sound pretty angry. You may want to eat a snickers or something

So yeah... what it really boils down to is you like to convert stuff in orbit, and that's your playstyle - that's about it. Also - comparing part quantity / memory usage vs. breaking the laws of physics is apples and tractors. Hell, a raw material that weighs less than it's output does not just violate the laws of physics, it beats it up, takes it's wallet, and leaves it in a gutter. I can only imagine the outcry if any implementation by Squad broke the rules of conservation of mass.

But no worries, you will still be able to play Kethane in 1.0... well, assuming someone picks it up since by all indications it's rapidly becoming a dead/abandoned mod.

[Norpo]

Kethane adds a gameplay element. It's worthwhile to transport Kethane and convert it where you need it because LFO has more mass, which is a strategy that is fun to play and gives reason for the converters and the big tanks. Karbonite pretty much MUST be converted the moment it comes out of the ground, which destroys that gameplay element and might as well be pulling LFO out of the ground directly. It makes the parts useless.

This gives me an idea; what about a Module Manager config that makes Karbonite lighter or equal to in weight to it's LFO equivalent?

Maybe I should make one and release it, as I've heard this argument for Kethane being better in that regard more than one time.

EDIT: The Karbonite engines would probably have to be rebalanced with the config as well, I imagine, though.