Stevie_D
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KSP2 Release Notes
Posts posted by Stevie_D
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With the closure of the studio and the staff layoff the simple matter of the fact is that the Steam page for Kerbal Space Program 2 is now fraudulent and deceptive advertising at best. With Intercept Games still listed as the developer and the Road Map still up and promises of "Key Features to come during Early Access" this is deceiving potential customers into believing the game is currently in active development.
But did you know that on that Steam page there is a wonderful little button called "Report this Product"?
On the right hand side of the steam page, if you scroll down, you will find Steam Deck compatibility, Content, and then the basic details of the game from Name, Genre, Developer...etc And at the very bottom of that you will see "SHARE, EMBED and a FLAG"That flag is the "Report this Product" button. Upon clicking it, you can select fraudulent behaviour and give your reasons. For those that do utilize this feature, please be constructive and show them that us Kerbal fans have class.
Thank you for reading this public service announcement.
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That's probably because, until the 28th, which will be their last day on the job , people are still working at Intercept Games, even if the game is about to die. Their last duty will probably be to update the store page. If not, then after the 28th that's when it will become 100% fraudulent and misleading to customers.
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as @DeadJohn said, you best not expect or hope for an answer. Take 2 have shown on multiple occasions that when they close a studio or a game they never make a public statement to either confirm or deny, they just let it die, silently, until everyone works it out themselves. (Google "Take 2 Marin" for quickest example)
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On 5/30/2024 at 1:10 PM, gluckez said:
- we are a team... no you're not, you're about to get laid off and already looking for another job
- we ship great games for our players.. you mean the buggy mess you didn't finish?
- we are true to our word... what word? I hear a deafening silence. or did you mean the promise you made to finish the game?
- we are improving every day... I'm not seeing any progress and you'll get laid off any day now
It's especially sad because if you have to say those things it usually means you haven't done any of them, so you have to convince people by telling them. That's why people use the phrase "Those who do, do. Those who can't, talk."
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The moment I saw the words "Take 2" I knew a billion-dollar gaming corporation wouldn't treat this game with the love, dedication, and respect that Squad did. The moment I saw a billion-dollar gaming corporation charge --->£50<--- for Early Access, after already being years behind schedule,... that's when alarm bells rang and I saw a cash grab and knew my fears were proving true. I never gave them a penny because a billion-dollar gaming corporation doesn't need to use Early Access, regardless of if you want to call them Take 2 or Private Division. The moment things turned sour they would drop it like a rotten egg, and they did.
I'm not pessimistic, I'm actually one of the most optimistic people you could hope to meet - but above all I'm a realist, and when you examine the facts of who people are and why people do things, you soon learn to trust in reading their intentions and the percentages of what they're most likely to do.
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I imagine the Youtubers who focused on KSP2 are the most out of pocket and distraught. Back to KSP1 and, thanks to the KSP2 debacle, with a burned and dwindling audience not wanting to hear the word "Kerbal" much at the moment.
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The problem with being too optimistic with this news is one simple fact - Take2's history when it comes to shuttering studios and / or selling them.
Largely, they buy things but never manage to sell ANYthing, they just close them. One of the rumours from IGN was that they just tried to sell Private Division to Paradox but their demands were simply too high, which fits with that MO of not being able to sell.
I can easily find a list of Take 2 acquisitions over the years, but its insanely hard to find a reference to anything they've ever sold. That is why they have a tried and trusted practice of just closing studios without ever publicly admitting they ever did so (Take 2 Marin, to name but one.) So those hoping for a public announcement from Take 2 over KSP2 are living in cuckoo land now.
And, considering the gaming industry is a chaotic and toxic landscape right now, with profits struggling across the board, along with high expenditure, expecting a tight-fisted and stubborn Take 2 to make a sale out of Private Division isn't something we should get too hopeful about. -
@ShadowZone I tried to help the algorithm by leaving a comment on your channel, but ill say it again here.
Thank you very much for the time, effort, dedication, impartiality, and integrity you gave to making that video. It is, without doubt (and very sadly), the best video I've ever watched for KSP2, including gameplay videos.
You gave a very professional and reasoned account and it must've been hard to do, considering how much love and passion we hold for this game and how bitterly disappointed we all are with how it's turned out.
I always love watching your videos and I subscribed years ago. So thanks again for your content, it really is top quality stuff. -
2 hours ago, Vl3d said:
And it will turn out as one of the greatest games ever made. I have not the slimmest shadow of a doubt.
Great positivity, but reality kicks naive positive thinkers in the nuts, like @Meecrob said. That's why the wisest saying is "to hope for the best but expect the worst."
Believing in Nate is great, but belief doesn't get you anywhere. For all we know, Nate might not even be creative director when we finally get news in 2034.
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Whenever I see the title of this thread, my mind goes back to The Dark Knight and, instead of Harvey Dent, the cop saying : "If Nate's got any sense, he's halfway to Mexico by now."
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June twenty... eighth... is it, that the current devs contracts run to, until they leave for their final day of work? Yeah,... sheesh. If the earnings call didn't produce anything and the best Take 2 and PD can do is put out an idle "nothing to see here" from their overlord Zelnik, then I don't hold out hope to hear anything official until start of July now. If there is a newly formed skeleton team being installed at PD HQ, then they'll want everything transferred over and make sure they're up and running before boasting about their "streamlining" process.
I don't think the higher ups know about or even care about what little reputation this game had is now going down the toilet into sewer levels. The steam review damage won't recover from another month or so of this. 92% negative reviews over the last 30 days is going to start hitting its overall score soon (which at Mixed was already bad). Those recent reviews already account for -10%- of the overall reviews made.
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TLDR version -
Strauss Zelnick, the boss of Take 2, when asked, said "We didn't shutter those studios." (meaning Intercept and Roll7)
"And we are always looking at our release schedule across all of our studios to make sure that it makes sense. So we are being very judicious because we are in the middle of a cost reduction program that we've already concluded and are now fully rolling out. We've announced that we're saving $165m in existing and future costs, but we haven't shuttered anything.""In the 8-K filing that we put out we talked about the cost reduction plan is approximately 5 percent reduction in headcount worldwide, but we did not give a label-by-label breakdown of what that looks like."
Following IGN's third attempt to determine if the studios still existed, the PR responded, "We have not provided any additional colour beyond what I just said."
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Even the eurogamer journalist thought this statement beggared belief, since it goes contrary to the confirmed and physical facts we know of 70 people having lost their jobs and the reason given to the state was filed as "closure" of the office. That is way, way higher than 5%. My guess is that, being the boss of Take 2, he doesn't even know nor care much about the test projects at Private Division, and the only crib-note his PR gave him for Intercept and Roll7 was "not closed, just reduced" and failed to tell him by how much.
Looks like that is the best we're going to get for now. Hope I'm wrong but meh... -
I personally don't know what anyone is hoping for from ANY announcement... be it from Take 2, PD, or Nate - it will all amount to a nothing burger.
You know why?
Because words do not define who you are or what you are doing, only actions do. And T2/PD's actions were made very clear when they closed the IG studio.They didn't simply reduce the staff by 5%, like the rest of their corporation, they closed the studio. That action speaks volumes.
[Snip]
This is why people say "actions speak louder than words." It is not simply a trite, cliched platitude, actions speak the truth of your intentions. Words do not.
- Take 2 can come out with a statement and say, with corporate speak words, that they are still "Fully Committed" and "100% support" KSP2's continued development to "completion." But we know for a fact that is not with a 70 person strong team, because of their actions. And, unless they specifically state "to complete the roadmap" then "completion" could mean ANYthing that they deem "completed." It could mean anything, even as little as going down to a 4 person team that keeps selling you a dream of a completed game that stays in Early Access for the next 8 years until the last of you finally realize they are preying upon peoples' love of the franchise making them gullible enough to throw 50 bucks at them for a glorified, never-finished beta.
- Private Division may come out and say that members (obvs not all) of Intercept have been "absorbed" into PD and they will assume direct control over the project. But, again, it will never be a 70 strong team, maybe not even a quarter of that, as we know due to so many layoffs. Their main goal is to serve their Take 2 overlord daddy. They will at best say they still back Nate and the project, and probably "remain committed" and perhaps use the words "a restructured team" or "reprioritized infrastructure" that will not speak the truth of "we sacked 70 people and rehired 10 because we culled the weakest performing IPs on our books." They may even say that they can "reassure" us as a community that KSP2 "will be finished" but without ever specifying what that means.
- Nate Simpson is a frontman. Nothing more. He is there to put a warm and reassuring face to you, the customer, that he and the company "are fans" and "have your best interests at heart." It is a time old corporate way of connecting to you on an emotional, one-to-one scale because human beings relate to other human beings and naturally want to believe them. Some of you *want* to trust him. That is a part of their corporate game and sales technique. He told you he was a fan, and that he loved and was involved in the community LONG, LONG before KSP2, but ...somehow... NEVER noticed over those YEARs of community involvement that nearly everyone universally HATED wobbly rockets,... and he even thought that we loved them and that was part of KSP's "Dna" and "charm." Then acted SURPRISED when we were all aghast at how bad wet noodle time in KSP2 was. That, among other glaring oddities, hints at a truer perspective - he is a corporate front man, the face of the project, pretending to be your friend and to keep you assured that he is one of you. That is *how* corporate businesses work. If you don't understand that then you are seriously naive. Any statement from him will say that he is "elated" or "so pleased" to still be keeping this project going after the "restructuring" at Take 2. He will tell you that "as promised" this project is going to be seen through to completion. He will tell you it has been a turbulent time but their love for KSP2 remains and he looks forward to proving all the naysayers wrong (so that the fanboy stans will stay onside.) He may say his love for the project gets stronger, or has been reinvigorated, or he looks forward to the dream coming true. He may promise "improved communication," now that he is allowed to speak again, and that things will be different from now on. "Lessons will have been learned" (an old doozy,) new ways of doing things will be implemented or their "work pipeline" has been "streamlined" - to make the "process" faster and smoother. Everything will point to positivity and a bright future.
Words. All words. Then, look at the history of their *actions* over the last 7 years, and ask yourself where their true priorities lie.
You will not get closure. They will not tell you the game is being shut down, because they never do something like that when there is currently a furore or the public media and spotlight is on a project. At best, if it is cancelled they will wait a year or so and then quietly announce it is one of a number of games being removed from steam. -
I love how people who lost out on a small, insignificant gamble with their own money on a video game are still prepared to lose a lot of their own money on a gamble in a court of law, against a multi-national corporation that can stack the deck against you far more by throwing dozens of their lawyers at you to defeat you. And even then, find it as easy as shooting fish in a barrel because the law is literally on their side in this case - due to you all essentially signing a contract when you clicked the button "buy Early Access game." AND they will have dozens of precedents from other Early Access games that did the exact same thing with which to show the judge.
With sincerity, you folks need to google "the sunken cost fallacy" and read up on it. Gamblers who don't know when to quit are the ones who lose the most.
But hey, you wanna burn more cash? I wish you all the luck in the world.
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I can understand why emotions are high and folk are looking for help from anywhere... but I don't know why people are desperately throwing crackpot ideas around of asking space industry experts to save a video game... it's a wishful fantasy.
Business people who are not in a certain industry rarely move into that industry. I'm not saying it's unheard of, but the vast majority of business people who are in an industry and know it inside out are the ones that are most likely to invest in that same industry.
So you're better off throwing out proposals to publishers and game studios with a history of producing space or scifi games.
But the biggest problem of all is that they'd have to negotiate with Take 2 for the rights to KSP. And, to put it frankly, despite the lay offs, Take 2 don't *need* to sell and KSP doesnt represent a big enough franchise that would recoup them a lot of money. If they did, they would've already. That means they can ask any ridiculous price they want and be as annoying as they want in any negotiations. Take 2 aren't known for playing friendly and, like Disney, can just let an IP sit on their back catalogue dead for years... just to be safe that no competitor made a better product with the IP and make the money they should have done. -
16 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:
Whatever happens, KSP 1 doesn't have much to stand on now being out of development and KSP 2 having become a pillar of the brand's identity.
If I were the KSP franchise owner I wouldn't want KSP2's reputation to be the pillar of the brand's identity.
That reputation right now is for late, buggy, cold garbage with disingenuous publishers and silent devs.
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Regardless of whether it continues development or not, this is the death knell of the game.
It will never have a staff of 70 people ever again. With a hugely reduced staff it will therefore take far longer to complete than the already glacially slow pace it's already going at ....which was part of the reason it has garnered such a bad reputation in the first place. And the only way they can avoid it taking forever is to cut items off the road map. A hugely reduced staff will also mean less bug catches and fixes, so quality will undoubtably suffer... to a game already beset with bugs and basic missing features KSP1 has.
Worse is the fact this is a hammer blow to the game's reputation, status, and profile online and among gamers. Many who came back month-to-month and stopped in just to check on the progress will now never come back, or if they do, yearly or worse. The community, already angered at the complete silence on this project, are unlikely to get *more* communication and updates with *less* staff. No offence to Nate, but he's promised time and time again communication would increase, upped it for a couple months, then fell back down to silence again. It is clear the team are either incapable of working out a communication strategy or they are hamstrung by Private Division guidelines. Nothing will change in that regard. It will certainly not improve with reduced staff.
Player numbers on the steam charts were already almost back to rock bottom, even before this news. That, coupled with the above, means the worst part - decreasing internet and social media engagement numbers, less people interested, less people clicking, less people taking notice of a product that Take 2 wants to sell. Take 2 are run by numbers... the very reason this entire debacle happened was because they are run by numbers. And, with an already niche game played by less than 300 or so people a day with a destroyed reputation from burning the gamers more than once, well... take a look at previous games in gaming history with development cycles as catastrophically bad as this and devs or publishers as bad as this and it will tell you time and time again it never leads to a successful product. Most times it leads to a cancelled product.
No Man's Sky is an aberration, there is no point using that as a hopeful beacon upon with which to hang your hopes. Hello Games *needed* NMS to be turned around because their entire company's reputation rested on NMS's success. It was a 1 game company.
Private Division was specifically set up by Take 2 to be their "throw a tiny bit of cash that we can easily spare at indie projects and see if any turn out to be the next Minecraft. If they don't, then we haven't lost anything."
If Take 2 as a company ever took a hit, then the "flip-a-coin" test projects in Private Divison would be the first to be easily jettisoned or easiest targets to reduce costs. And that's almost exactly what happened. Private Division are the games T2 cares *the least* about.
Take 2 use Private Division to spend the *bare minimum* to see if *test projects* work out. They will not chuck money at KSP2 to turn it around ...because, unlike Hello Games, it simply doesn't matter to their company's future if it doesn't succeed.
So they will, at best, let it limp on and see if a tiny reduced team can bring it to fruition and make a few more bucks. But if the metrics and numbers continue dropping (and they will due to the events of the last few days and the lasting damage to the Steam review page) then I would be surprised if development did not stop at some point. Spending millions on a game with an almost rock-bottom reputation that only garners a bare minimum of players... due to its bad reputation... and at best only had scope as a niche game they hoped to grow?... The moment they realize they will never *reach* even that niche market anymore they will pull the plug.
And as for any corporate statements that you pin your hopes on?... just remember Nate said this project was fully funded and everything was fine and would be fine from here on... only 5 months ago. Look how iron-clad THAT statement was.
Star Theory - destroyed.Intercept Games - destroyed.
Putting your faith in any statement Take 2 related when all they care about is the AAA titles is foolhardy. Corporate statements are put out to lie and deceive or to sucker you into continuing to believe in their product or buy their product. They do not have your best intentions at heart, they only care about parting you with your cash. And you know what they say about a fool and their money...
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1 hour ago, Jaypeg said:
Mike said something cool on twitter though: They are ""handing the game off"" to another group. So someone will work on it apparently.
As Pulstar says, you shouldn't get your hopes up by that. It's the same difference between "developing" a game and "supporting" a game (the terminology the corporate press release used). Just because you support a game it does not mean that game is actively being worked on.
Handing off the game to another group could be handing it over to 2 people who just manage the steam account for it. I'm not saying that will be the case, but it's an example of why you shouldn't read too much into that term.
Whatever happens, one thing is certain - this game is not going to continue on in the same manner it has been up to now. The 5% layoff by Take 2 included nearly *all* Intercept employees - that tells you something. If they laid off 5% of their workforce evenly then only 5% of Intercept Games employees would've been affected. 90% is the region we're looking at for Intercept, and that's a conservative estimate. Even if they rehire some of them, you wouldn't close the entire studio if you had a similar workforce. You close the physical building because you do not need a building for that many people anymore. Half the size? A quarter? 1 single office room in Private Division's HQ because only 5 people will now work on the game? Who knows. But if any future development does happen on this game, it will be *greatly* reduced. I'd be highly surprised if the road map stays the same as it is at the very least. -
I imagine he doesn't know himself. All he's doing is being a nice and courteous person and cleaning up files and writing notes as to what he was working on and where it was at, so that if someone comes after then they can pick it back up easier. That shows real class, btw. Many lesser people having been sacked would just do the bare minimum and clock out.
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Yep, right now we're all quietly wishing we were sat around a little campfire together, clinking our mugs in comradery, sharing sympathies, telling tales of our fun times in KSP, our hopes and dreams for KSP2, our bitterness towards corporate greed, our continued bemusement at how Bill ever graduated to become an Engineer in the first place...
...but how about a little light-hearted positive speculation about the future? Based off of what we know.
What we know...- Most of the people working on KSP2 have been laid off and Intercept's office studio closed.
- Nate hasn't been laid off, and perhaps a few key individuals that he said he can't live without.
- Corporate / Private Division / The devi... *cough* .. I mean Take 2, says it continues to "support" KSP2 (but the word "support" does not mean development! Support could be as simple as keeping the game online in its current form, indefinitely.)
- Private Division / Satan's Arseho... *cough* ... I mean Take 2, are unlikely to sell the game as it is to another company. At best they would sell the rights to the Kerbal franchise later down the line.
So what do you think the future holds, if KSP2 isn't cancelled? Serious or funny.
Me, personally, I have a picture in my head...
Well, it's rather a dim picture, because you see it involves a dimly-lit janitor's closet in Private Division's Headquarters. It USED to be the janitor's closet, but that was the best space PD's budget could allocate for an office for KSP2's continued development.It has a (obviously) yellow POST-IT note covering the Janitor's door sign, reading "KSP 2 DEV STUDIO"
One tiny light-bulb barely illuminates the room.
Nate's desk is an upturned bucket with a second-hand laptop on top of it as he squats on the floor to work.
He complains whenever Nertea's butt rubs up against his face whenever they shift in their positions.
Nertea gets a -proper- desk, you see, because he's the talent. He's currently busy making every-single-art-asset for the game... until the end of time.
He has to, his ankle is chained to a pipe.
Matt Lowne is tied up in the corner, gagged. His pennance for daring to speak out against the devs, PD, and Take 2.
His head is held in place by wooden stakes in the wall. His eyes held open by those same restraints in A Clockwork Orange. He's forced to stare at a poster of Scott Manley all day long.
Roverdude's skeleton is in the other corner... "Coding." The bones of his arm and index finger rise as the water pump it's attached to fills a tank and then falls to hit the keyboard every thirteen seconds when the water spills over.
Meanwhile, back on these forums, our new community moderator "AI_Dakota" keeps repeating the same message to every post with "I can promise and guarantee that the game is still being worked on and development continues. Is there any other way I can help you today? Please rate this AI_bot experience if not. For customer support on this AI_bot, please email [email protected]" -
Totally understandable response and reaction, mate. Don't blame you one bit. If I was still modding I would be doing exactly the same.
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Chris Nertea Adderley could've created all the parts they'd ever need by now, all on his own.
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1 minute ago, Flush Foot said:
I wonder what project lead to the other $200M in losses...
Maybe they're funding Disney and Marvel movies...
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Damned supernovas....
...being all arrogant and creating the heavier chemical elements.What?!? HYDROGEN AND HELIUM WEREN'T GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU?!?!?
For those that wish to explain their frustration to Steam
in KSP2 Discussion
Posted · Edited by Stevie_D
@atomontage
Because people are allowed to know their consumer rights. And, possibly, if enough people do it then there is a chance that Steam can force Private Division into altering it's steam page - and removing deceptive material that currently misleads potential customers into thinking the game is currently being worked on when it is not. That statement you gave is useless because it is all about implying you need to be patient for a developer who is ACTIVELY working on the game but may not have posted an update in a while. This game *has* no developer.
All I have given in my OP is information to people that they may not have known. I didn't know that flag existed until I searched for it. Why is informing people of an option they may not know about offensive to you? I have to question. People are entitled to know their consumer rights and the right to complain is one of them.