pmoffitt

Take a look at taniwha's post to this discussion on Sept 16th. There are things you can do to limit some of this but no real fix. This is really a limitation / feature of the Physics Engine and not actually an issue with this mod. Basically, unless you figure out a way to actually attach things to the ground, they are always moving. Actually, even if connected to the ground, they are still moving relative to something else. Robotics are even worse and is related to how they connect and I haven't really found a fix for it, they are just slowly going to move.

I find if I can get my periapsis down to something like 45km the air drag will eventually bring the vessel to landing on Kerbin. It will need plenty of heat protection as it tries to burn up in the atmosphere. It will take a few orbits but it works. I have had to do this lately with several vessels in a new career mode game that just didn't have enough fuel left after leaving one of the moons. You get so much more change of periapsis way out there at apoapsis for less fuel burn. Just hope they are lucky enough not to hit a mountain on the way down, I haven't done so yet. The Experiment Storage Unit allows you to store all the Science Information you pick up in it and has an action to collect it all. It will not store duplicates of the same experiment from the same biome. I find it very handy and if you have a Scientist that can restore experiments, allows you to run them multiple times to gather even more science in a single launch. It could also be used like you suggested so you could remove the experiments to save fuel / increase dV by reducing weight at some point. But, as I find that I may be able to collect more science with them even during decent for landing, they usually come back with the vessel for me. I may need to look at that again as keeping enough fuel to get back home has been an issue. Getting rid of the extra weight prior to opening chutes would allow me to have less weight in chutes. Reducing dry weight of the payload is the best way to reduce fuel needs.

1.4 should be enough to get you into orbit. So, I assume that isn't an issue. I have had some issues if I was running too low on TWR.

I don't see your TWR in those pictures. What is it like?

@taniwhaEasy enough to test that out. Not the real issue however, may still be a problem. The issue is that Resources are case sensitive. It is RocketParts not Rocketparts. My latest test didn't delete the MaterialKits and it appears to be putting the value of MaterialKits from the previous node into RocketParts for the current node. Oh, it is working fine. There appear to be 2.5 times as many MaterialKits as RocketParts. That is because MaterialKits have a density of 0.001 and RocketParts have a density of 0.025. If your code doesn't already, ensure that it checks that the Resource being added to a Recipe is valid and throw a meaningful error if not (or something). The Object not set to an instance of an Object errors cause bad things to happen if one puts an invalid Resource into a Recipe. @PART[*]:HAS[@OSE_PartRecipe]:NEEDS[Workshop,ExtraplanetaryLaunchpads]:Final { @OSE_PartRecipe:HAS[#MaterialKits] //[1]] { RocketParts = #$MaterialKits$ //1 -MaterialKits //= 1 } // @OSE_PartRecipe:HAS[#MaterialKits[2]] // { // RocketParts = 2 // -MaterialKits = 2 // } } Given that this cfg didn't delete the MaterialKits, I think your statement that it needs a value so that MM recognizes MaterialKits as a value instead of a node is correct. BTW, the commented out version of the cfg seemed to work fine but I am trying to be more generic incase the OSE Recipes ever change to use MaterialKits values other than just 1 or 2. More testing.... Seems to be working. Final cfg: // Modify OSE to use RocketParts // I tried using #$MaterialKits$ to change set the vaule of RocketParts // Currently this appears to pull the wrong value from MaterialKits - works fine density difference between MaterialKits and RocketParts @OSE_DefaultRecipe:NEEDS[Workshop,ExtraplanetaryLaunchpads]:Final { @RESOURCES:HAS[#MaterialKits[*]] { RocketParts = #$MaterialKits$ -MaterialKits = #$MaterialKits$ } } @PART[*]:HAS[@OSE_PartRecipe]:NEEDS[Workshop,ExtraplanetaryLaunchpads]:Final { @OSE_PartRecipe:HAS[#MaterialKits[*]] { RocketParts = #$MaterialKits$ -MaterialKits = #$MaterialKits$ } }

And if you go into the DEV Branch and grab the CFG for the light globe, it will work just fine in 1.10 again. @RoverDudeMaybe you should push that change out to the release version. It is such a minor change but would fix the compatibility issue for KSP 1.10.

I attempted to replace MaterialKits with RocketPart in the Default recipe and also for every part that had MaterialKits in their recipe. I went to my base and opened the GUI for the OSE Workstation, none of the parts that use to require MaterialKits were there. If I tried to switch back to the Space Center or Tracking Station nothing would happen when I clicked on the buttons (after hitting esc). Then when I tried to exit the game it would just hang. Lots of null pointer exceptions in the logs I just really don't want to have to build both Material Kits and Rocket Parts. I only have the Workshop mod installed as there seem to be issues if I install some of the others or they get rid of features in EL that I want. This is the config I tried: // Modify OSE to use Rocketparts @OSE_DefaultRecipe:NEEDS[Workshop,ExtraplanetaryLaunchpads]:Final { @RESOURCES:HAS[#MaterialKits] { Rocketparts = 1 -MaterialKits } } @PART[*]:HAS[@OSE_PartRecipe]:NEEDS[Workshop,ExtraplanetaryLaunchpads]:Final { @OSE_PartRecipe:HAS[#MaterialKits] { Rocketparts = #$MaterialKits$ -MaterialKits } }

Transfer seems a bit slow. I am so tempted to increase the max transfer rate by say an order of magnitude. Can this be done by resource or is it global? I haven't looked at the cfgs for this yet. I was looking at the dev branch on gethub. How is the update going? I still haven't figured out how to convert all the OSE Recipes over to use RocketParts yet. The last thing I tried actually seemed to cause KSP to break. Any good ideas on how to do that other than just going in and directly changing the cfg files for Workshop (seems like it might be easier than using Module Manager)?

If you set the connection mode to Docked, then yes. Otherwise, you have to use the GUI to transfer materials. Once docked, they are the same vessel. However, you have to be careful about what happens when you switch to this vessel as things may jump around as the physics engine places the parts based on where they the were supposed to be with respect to the root of the new vessel. If that root has moved (sunk in or whatever), it can create some spectacular results. Much discussion around about how to avoid this.

@AlphaMensae , @Hohmannson As taniwha told me on 9/9/2020: The Diamond Grid mod has a clamp that is not staged and other structure that makes using clamps for ground bases nicer. Just a patch of parts. I have been using it since taniwha's post to me.

Looks like there are settings for for Rocketparts in the configs for the B9 Modules in the Station Parts mod. Also see some mm patches for workshop settings for the habitation modules. So, it seems it supports EL. I don't believe that I have had Tweakscale installed and haven't gotten any of the config settings in KIS/settings.cfg to allow those parts to be stackable again. I tried making sure that the KIS mm settings (KAS/MM-KIS.cfg) were rerun by adding them in again in my own mm patches as :Final but it didn't seem to help. The parts that don't seem to stack only have Module KASLinkTargetBase and yet that is included in KAS/MM-KIS.cfg as part of @stackable for KISConfig. Unless there is a property for stackable in that module that I don't know about (there is much I don't know about).

B9PartSwitch is correct according to CKAN. (I am also using StockLike Station Parts Expansion Redux.) However, is there something that is breaking the modifications that allow RocketParts to be stored? Do you have 2 different mods that modify containers installed? I have been avoiding mods that require Interstellar Fuel Switch as I already have FireSpitter and B8PartSwitch installed as I hear they can cause conflicts. (Or is that not true?) USI mods seem to break a some things. USI mods want to change all the recipes to Material Kits and Specialty Parts. And one of them (maybe Konstruction) breaks KAS.JS1 and KAS.CH1 (maybe others) from being stackable in the KIS Inventories. (I haven't found an easy way to make it come back short of mm patches that add in another module to the parts such as ModuleKISItem.)

Wait a minute, we can build on a ELMicroPad at the Kerbin Launch Pad?

My frist (working) MM patches to help with orientation issues when adding onto a vessel using a ELMicroPad. Seems to help a bit with adding Clamps to vessels after the fact. I added an attachment node to the bottom of the Radial Attachment Point and rotated the Diamond Grid Truss Adapter 90 degrees on the x axes (creating a new part). // Add an attachment point to the bottom to allow better placing using LaunchPad @PART[stackPoint1]:Needs[ExtraplanetaryLaunchpads] { node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -0.08, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 1 //Same Position as node_attach property } // Flip orientation on X axes to allow better conneting using lauchpad // creates a new DGT-Adapter-125-2 +PART[DiamondGridTrussAdapter]:Needs[ExtraplanetaryLaunchpads] { @name = DiamondGridTrussAdapter2 @title = DGT-Adapter-125-2 @MODEL { @rotation = 90, 0, 0 } }

Exactly, and that is what I was trying to point out with my post. You have to have some sort of goal or plan in mind or you get stuck in the "Now what do I do?" mindset. At first, one is just trying to figure out how to do things such as make a rocket ship and fly it. I am still in this process as I am trying to figure out how to make things I want to make. Eventually, you start working on goals, how to get to the Mun, how to get to other planets, making bases, etc. At this point, you start to develop our own style of playing (which will change as you progress). My current plan, design bases (both ground and then orbital) to provide resources, way points and launch sites to make it easier to explore outside the SOI of Kerban. I hate making rocket ships that have to burn up most of their resources just to get out of the gravity well. For the most part, I have been trying to see what I can do on my own. I have looked at a few designs for inspiration or how to deal with some specific thing I was having issues with. But, I want to see what I can come up with first. There are so many things to play with. Eventually, I will look at what others have done to tweak my style. But for now, I am mostly figuring out how parts go together and what mods I really want to use. Once I have that under control (they will release KSP 2.0 and change everything), I will start another Career Mode or maybe a Science Mode game. I had gone a long way with a Career Mode game before I even started installing mods. Hint for newbies, just install Kerbal Alarm Clock, it is very handy for running multi missions at the same time, I waited too long before finding and installing that mod. I didn't install MechJeb until I was able to do most maneuvers myself without much issue (they were time consuming and tedious after awhile). Docking for the most part had become routine and easy if not time consuming. Finding good spots to do transfers to moons and planets was still a pain, but MechJeb fixed that for me. Much less tedious and time consuming doing routine maneuvers with MechJeb.

I have half tried to mode things to allow production of either Rocket Parts or Material Kits, I haven't gotten it to work. But then, I don't really know MM well enough (yet). I haven't tried filling up a KIS container and building it onsite. I didn't think that would work since tanks are built empty. I will have to try that. I have been sticking extra heat management devices on sections I am building as it appears I have a heat management issue. Still learning what I need and don't need and how to use the parts. (Wish I could get Xenon production to work, it seems to be producing but getting nowhere.) Today, I have been having issues with crashing KSP. Seems to wipe out all part references producing null references. I had to go back to an old persistent.sfs and then load my latest save. And it just crashed again, I had just tried to switch to the Space Center and then a unity error. Player Log is full of parts with null reference again. Subassemblies full of one-shots is becoming a thing. I have just started using one called temp. So, what you working on? So how does one put a quantity of stackable items in to the config for preloading chair inventory slots? I can put a single object in but I would love to set it for say a dozen ELSurveyStakes?

First, yes, I was admiring the heck out of that base last night. I want to be able to build bases like that. I like how compact things are. What is the longest distance between anchor points from end to end? Are you having any issues with things moving or falling apart (Kraken attacks)? It seems that the people with good overall base designs actually prebuild them prior to putting them into production. I have been just bootstrapping mine and then adding on what was needed. Now I am trying to clean up the mess that has created. (You should have seen some of the explosions that blew up the whole base when some part I took off decided it was in the ground when I dropped it or something major fell over.) As of yet, I have not found a good way of creating a cargo rocket that can unload sections of a base and put them in place. (I keep breaking cranes by disconnecting the cable with tension on it. One would think I would have learned after the first time that happened.)

@HansAcker Thanks, that helps and works much better.

I did a thing. First I removed the Persistent Thrust and Parking Break mods. That didn't instantly correct the issue but I didn't expect it to until the locations were corrected. Then I edited the persistent.sfs file by setting the x and z position of the moved parts to that of the sspx-hub-25-1 (6-way connector) above them. I then loaded the game and as I could now select the ladder that got sucked into the parts and reattached it using KAS where I wanted it. I switched vessels a bit, went back to Space Center. Then switched back to Ground Base Root. All the parts but the ladder stayed were they were supposed to. Ok, one of the heavy pieces of the base jumps a bit without parking brake but so far not too bad. This is beginning to feel like the location set when I attach the part via KAS isn't right or changes very quickly for some reason (I can't imagine why as I can't tell in the sfs file that a part was attached via KAS). I should have saved a few games so I could have looked at the location of the ladder before I switched vessels but I didn't think of that at the time. But, it isn't happening to every part, just some. I haven't noticed the pattern to that yet. Any idea what launchID is used for? The parts connected via KAS are not changing launchID, not sure if that is good, bad or indifferent. I have actually been building on my Minimus Base again (instead of trying to figure out why things were not working they way I wish). It seems that I am not having random part movements anymore. I kind of miss parking brake but it isn't the end of the world. And bonus, I can now time warp without issue. So the problems I was having appear to be associated with one or more of the modes I have removed: Kerbal Joint Reinforcement Continued, Persistent Thrust, Parking Break (probably one or both of the last 2). Maybe I should reinstall Parking Break and see what happens.

Oh nice, the selected pad (or survey stake) between vessel switches was annoying but not a show stopper. I have seen an issue with ReStock / ReStock+ where some parts are no longer stackable (oh wait, that's is probably a conflict with KIS). I stopped using ReStock for now. I begin to think the no longer stackable issue wih KAS.CH1 and KAS.JS1 are actually caused by one of the USI mods (konstruction maybe). And just removing the mods doesn't fix it.

I have never noticed a difference using that key. Any easy way to tell which mode you are in? Never mind, open eyes, it tells you when you have the part in your hand which node is being used. I have removed the joint reinforcement mode. I got the parts reattached (even right side up this time cause R works). https://drive.google.com/file/d/1erW8dnS12vrmOhKFMuYwiwI86ZTbO-3f/view?usp=sharing Let's see if they stay that way. And it already has moved. I stopped after putting those parts back into place and now just started the game again and they have already moved. https://drive.google.com/file/d/15zp_YOceZUg-UZmF7fS_aucRNGsJmCJg/view?usp=sharing

And that is also one of the problems I have at times with KSP: Hmm, what do I want to do now? It seems best if you have some goal or plan in mind.

When I first installed MechJeb (like a month ago now) I laughed several times as I watched my ship crash into the moon. I think this is an odd behavior, but I have gotten used to adjusting the PE (using MechJeb) shortly after the Hohmann transfer maneuver nodes have completed. I have also learned to turn off RCS for that adjustment as it is enough to mess up the intercept distance (usually shoot for a PE of 50k as that seems to be a good orbit distance for Minimus). I suppose if Sarbian wished, a closest approach distance could be added to the settings for the transfer. But, frankly, I would prefer they keep working on some of the other code such as the rover autopilot. It would be nice if one could set the rover auto pilot to stop at a the target instead of hitting it at whatever max velocity you had set (like the docking function does?). Crashing a rover into my mining ship on Minimus at 10 kps was worth a laugh or two (yes, I had saved just before trying the rover autopilot).

Excuse my ignorance, but, how does one switch modes? Is it just a matter of where you are trying to attach the parts? I was attempting to attach to the standard connection nodes at the bottom of the part above it using KAS as I had removed the parts from a separate ship and was attaching them to the new location (trying to save RocketParts for other things). (Grab and remove then attach with H.) I was cleaning up and trying to make the base not look like a bunch of separate ships that I landed there and then connected using RTS1 (which it kind of was/is). I was hoping to reduce or control relative movement of the base and also see if I could reduce some the the physics latency that was starting to show up. Oh, I wonder if this laptop is getting warm and slowing down the video card causing some of the lag. (You try to figure out a good way to remove heat off an RTX-2060 that's in a laptop, it isn't easy. Yes, I was once a thermal analysist.) More things to look at.

I am not sure if you can catch it moving in these logs. Here is a link to the Google drive folder containing logs, save files etc. related to this Sandbox game if you really want to dig into it: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/18RqHToXs1bbFKRMgzHVxfVkut7foSUNH?usp=sharing CKANList.txt is an exported list of the mods I have installed right now. I am running Kerbal Space Program - 1.10.1.2939 (WindowsPlayer x64) en-us as reported in the KSP Log. Do you want to unity or player logs? Please ignore errors related to ZZZZPatch as I am playing with modifying the OSE Workshop to get the converter to make RocketParts as well as MaterialKits. Just seems a shame that OSE Workshop and ExtraplanetaryLaunchpads use 2 different materials to create essentially the same process. I am trying to see if I can correct that. It isn't working at all yet. (Ok, I can't seem to keep myself from looking under the hood with KSP and mods.) I suspect, if this is not normal behavior for KAS / KIS then, it is probably caused by another mod I have installed. I don't believe I have seen it move. It just seems to move between loads or when switching focus to the the ground base (Ground Base Root). I swear I can see the Harvester Move, it has popped the RTS connection at least once. I have had issues with the ELRocketBuilder, it once threw all the Kerbals I had on it into space (that sucked). I think I should try a clean install of KSP and just put in the minimum modes for running KAS/KIS and see if that has the same issues.