[1.3] [Kopernicus] New Horizons v2.0.1 [2JUN17] - It's Back!

[KillAshley]

This mod has made me do a double take and 'wow' out loud too many times already.

beautiful! love the shots dude!

[eddiew]

Best I have from today - mostly spent it faffing around making an SSTO out of turbojets and T45s to send crew to my LKO science station, but did have time for a simulation with a new Munlander concept. Contract Configurator popped up a mission worth 226 science for finding the crashed UFO on Mun. So Bob bet Jeb a bottle of scotch that he couldn't do it solo. Contraptions happened.

[eddiew]

...I think I just wasted my entire weekend playing KSP...

Anyhoo, paid a visit to two of the warm worlds in the NH system with a pair of twin probes. Eve looks particularly radiant with rings, while Arin turns all your heat indicators yellow just by being in orbit. Maybe I should have thought about radiators xD

I've given up with default atmo heating and dialled it down to allow interplanetary aerobraking once again, because small and delicate is where I get my kicks and I have no desire to have to make huge monstrosities whose only goal is to avoid the atmosphere ^^;

There was also

, which wasn't explicitly NH based, but did get a few beauty shots of Sonnah, and certainly wasn't made any easier by the alternate location for Mun! Probably the only time I've bothered to have a separate lander and orbiter.

[Tellion]

...I think I just wasted my entire weekend playing KSP...

Grab your pitchforks everyone

[KillAshley]

...I think I just wasted my entire weekend playing KSP...

Anyhoo, paid a visit to two of the warm worlds in the NH system with a pair of twin probes. Eve looks particularly radiant with rings, while Arin turns all your heat indicators yellow just by being in orbit. Maybe I should have thought about radiators xD

I've given up with default atmo heating and dialled it down to allow interplanetary aerobraking once again, because small and delicate is where I get my kicks and I have no desire to have to make huge monstrosities whose only goal is to avoid the atmosphere ^^;

There was also

http://i.imgur.com/c0ggvMd.jpg

, which wasn't explicitly NH based, but did get a few beauty shots of Sonnah, and certainly wasn't made any easier by the alternate location for Mun! Probably the only time I've bothered to have a separate lander and orbiter.

as always dude, they are some beautiful shots! keep it up dude!

[Nori]

@KillAshley: Been playing New Horizons for a week or so and gotta say that I really love it.

Going without the Mun and Minmus as Kerbin's moons is new and exciting. It provides some fun challenges and now I gotta think carefully about where to setup a refueling depot.

A few things I'd like to mention though. The science settings for Kerbin are IMHO spot on. I'm playing at 50% science gains and 25% contract and while it hasn't been easy, I've completed almost all of the 45 science tier which gives me plenty of options to explore the Sonnah system. I do have Dmagic's Orbital science however, so that does help a bit (only unlocked the mag though).

Anyway, the thing I wanted to mention is that funds rewards are lowered by the science multiplier too. For most people it probably wouldn't be too much of a issue, but if you play with entry purchases the early game is all but impossible (or super grindy). I'm actually working on a contract pack (almost done) that replaces the initial contracts up till escaping Kerbin's SOI. The rewards are multiplier independent and should be planet pack neutral. So far in my testing it has been pretty good.

In the known issues the rockets flying off, or terrain getting screwed up on launch is mentioned. Is this supposed to be a rare bug? I use Kerbal Construction time and I pretty much never see the issue when simulating, but if I launch from the KCT interface the bug shows up in 95% of my launches. Not sure if there is anything you can do about it; at this point I've gotten pretty used to it.

In closing, here is a shot of my early KSC rover.

Love the view!

[KillAshley]

@KillAshley: Been playing New Horizons for a week or so and gotta say that I really love it.

Going without the Mun and Minmus as Kerbin's moons is new and exciting. It provides some fun challenges and now I gotta think carefully about where to setup a refueling depot.

A few things I'd like to mention though. The science settings for Kerbin are IMHO spot on. I'm playing at 50% science gains and 25% contract and while it hasn't been easy, I've completed almost all of the 45 science tier which gives me plenty of options to explore the Sonnah system. I do have Dmagic's Orbital science however, so that does help a bit (only unlocked the mag though).

Anyway, the thing I wanted to mention is that funds rewards are lowered by the science multiplier too. For most people it probably wouldn't be too much of a issue, but if you play with entry purchases the early game is all but impossible (or super grindy). I'm actually working on a contract pack (almost done) that replaces the initial contracts up till escaping Kerbin's SOI. The rewards are multiplier independent and should be planet pack neutral. So far in my testing it has been pretty good.

In the known issues the rockets flying off, or terrain getting screwed up on launch is mentioned. Is this supposed to be a rare bug? I use Kerbal Construction time and I pretty much never see the issue when simulating, but if I launch from the KCT interface the bug shows up in 95% of my launches. Not sure if there is anything you can do about it; at this point I've gotten pretty used to it.

thanks dude. Always good to know that at least the science returns are a challenge, but not overkill! I tried to make it hard, but not impossible

Keep me posted about that contract pack, if it works well with NH then I'm extremely interested!

Yeah unfortunately there's an issue with KCT that we can't seem to figure out. The problem with the terrain freaking out on launch only ever happens when launching from KSC view (not launching through VAB/SPH), and something about KCT seems to aggravate the bug and makes it happen almost every time. I'm looking into it, but I can't give any hope of finding a solution anytime soon. I really should have updated the OP to mention this, I keep forgetting

[Nori]

thanks dude. Always good to know that at least the science returns are a challenge, but not overkill! I tried to make it hard, but not impossible

Definitely hard, especially on 50% science. But I think it is just right. I just unlocked the node with life support supplies so I now have everything i need to explore the whole Sonnah system. Though it won't be simple as I'm still working with pretty smal

Keep me posted about that contract pack, if it works well with NH then I'm extremely interested!

I shall. Technically it is working now, but I made a bunch of changes to it yesterday so I wanted to give it another go through before I think of releasing it.

If you are interested I can PM you what I have now if you wanted to test it out. If not or you are too busy, no worries.

It will require Contract Configurator. I don't think stock contracts allow for what I'm doing.

Yeah unfortunately there's an issue with KCT that we can't seem to figure out. The problem with the terrain freaking out on launch only ever happens when launching from KSC view (not launching through VAB/SPH), and something about KCT seems to aggravate the bug and makes it happen almost every time. I'm looking into it, but I can't give any hope of finding a solution anytime soon. I really should have updated the OP to mention this, I keep forgetting

Good to know. I figured it was KCT's interaction since simming always works. Oddly launching from the runway doesn't have issues as much.

[CobaltWolf]

So, I finally got around to installing Linux so I could play kerbal on 64 bit. Currently running NH, K+ and OPM and I'm excited to see so many places to go! For now, I'm still stuck in LKO doing basic missions. Since I'm busy the next couple days I have been sort of theory crafting the future of my program, so I had a couple of questions. I've been slowly going back in the thread but I figured I'd ask, at the very least, to start fresh discussion on these two things.

1) Anyone have any tips for RemoteTech networks? I was considering having 6x comm sats on equatorial orbits around Sonnah, with dishes pointing a) to all the sonnah bodies (minus pergas - which seems to be beyond 50Mm?) and to the sats in front + behind them on their orbits, as the ranges are too far for omnis. Hopefully this will enable communications to the far side of sonnah, such as when the Mun is behind the planet from Kerbin.

2) Any tips for general progression in the Sonnah system? What bodies should I go to first? Should I try and orbit all the bodies before landing?

Also, I can confirm that KCT is causing issues. Simming always works while actually launching takes a couple tries. Here's hoping that you have the Mun's issues fixed - my first attempted playthrough ended in part because my Munar comm network got thrown out into Kerbol orbit! On that topic: Is there an altitude that is safe? Are landed probes safe?

[eddiew]

Heh, in this case, I am but the humble photographer following the basic rules - take 50 different shots from 50 different angles and one of them might come out good enough to share ^^;

But there certainly is a lot of visual majesty in New Horizons, and if anything I post garners some more publicity and users, then you're welcome to both

Unfortunately I'm now getting stuck for new places to visit, since I haven't got RTGs yet, and I'm nervous of going beyond Lave on just solars... I'll try a shot for Jool, and see how they work out there, but I think Titanus and Vanor are a bit out of my range for now. Think my next few sessions are going to be some revisits of Mun/Serran to farm science and bring it back to Skylab for analysis.

- - - Updated - - -

In the known issues the rockets flying off, or terrain getting screwed up on launch is mentioned. Is this supposed to be a rare bug? I use Kerbal Construction time and I pretty much never see the issue when simulating, but if I launch from the KCT interface the bug shows up in 95% of my launches. Not sure if there is anything you can do about it; at this point I've gotten pretty used to it.

I have this with KCT too, so I gave up with it. I suspect that KSC is not in the place KCT expects, what with being on a moon now... ^^;

[magico13]

Good to know. I figured it was KCT's interaction since simming always works. Oddly launching from the runway doesn't have issues as much.

Nori, I can't for the life of me cause those issues to happen (I've tried on multiple occasions). Can you send me logs and (if you're not using too many mods) a save file+craft that reliably causes it? You can always rollout from the space center, then go into the editor to launch. It's a convoluted method but it would probably work.

Edit:

In case it's not clear, KCT uses the same function that the Stock game does to create a new flight when clicking on the launchpad/runway. KCT just requires you to launch from the space center more often, which I presume is the cause. I'd be surprised if the stock game + New Horizons didn't have the issue if you launched exclusively through the launchpad.

Also, since KCT 1.2 simulations and launches use the exact same function as each other. So it definitely sounds like a starting scene issue. Which I've seen before, when launching from the Tracking Station (which is no longer an option because you'd start 50 meters off the ground).

Edited August 2, 2015 by magico13

[eddiew]

1) Anyone have any tips for RemoteTech networks? I was considering having 6x comm sats on equatorial orbits around Sonnah, with dishes pointing a) to all the sonnah bodies (minus pergas - which seems to be beyond 50Mm?) and to the sats in front + behind them on their orbits, as the ranges are too far for omnis. Hopefully this will enable communications to the far side of sonnah, such as when the Mun is behind the planet from Kerbin.

2) Any tips for general progression in the Sonnah system? What bodies should I go to first? Should I try and orbit all the bodies before landing?

Bear in mind that RT2 ranges are calibrated for the stock system. It wouldn't be a bad idea at all to bump them up for NH. I was using Antenna Range for a while until I realised it simply wasn't built to cope with the scale of NH and was costing me most of the science I transmitted in losses due to range.

As for where to go; Mun is only slightly more expensive than stock. You can get to it for 800m/s, circularise with 5-600, and return from orbit with 400. Mostly it's about choosing your timing (I go when it's 120 degrees behind Kerbin). Aptur can be gotten to for slightly more on the outbound, and less on the return. Serran is harder, it's big, and it has an atmosphere, but that atmosphere is barely enough to land with parachutes. Spec for stock Duna, then add 20%. Bear in mind you will return faster than stock, so be ready with heatshields, or turn down heating. I did the latter.

Orbit/land/etc is your choice really My personal rules of play dictate an orbiter, a probe lander if it is either a Sonnah moon or has an atmosphere, and only then can I put boots on it. I got impatient with Serran on the basis it has oxygen and my inner-RP was satisfied the crew would survive for a few weeks even if stranded.

[cantab]

I had some cases when the rocket seemed to be placed vertically wrong when launching directly to the launchpad. One time it was too low, clipped into the pad and went boom. Another time it was too high, dropped onto the pad and went boom. I just took to always launching from the VAB instead. No KCT around, but assorted other mods and an old Kopernicus version so don't set too much store by my results.

[Nori]

So, I finally got around to installing Linux so I could play kerbal on 64 bit. Currently running NH, K+ and OPM and I'm excited to see so many places to go! For now, I'm still stuck in LKO doing basic missions. Since I'm busy the next couple days I have been sort of theory crafting the future of my program, so I had a couple of questions. I've been slowly going back in the thread but I figured I'd ask, at the very least, to start fresh discussion on these two things.

1) Anyone have any tips for RemoteTech networks? I was considering having 6x comm sats on equatorial orbits around Sonnah, with dishes pointing a) to all the sonnah bodies (minus pergas - which seems to be beyond 50Mm?) and to the sats in front + behind them on their orbits, as the ranges are too far for omnis. Hopefully this will enable communications to the far side of sonnah, such as when the Mun is behind the planet from Kerbin.

2) Any tips for general progression in the Sonnah system? What bodies should I go to first? Should I try and orbit all the bodies before landing?

Also, I can confirm that KCT is causing issues. Simming always works while actually launching takes a couple tries. Here's hoping that you have the Mun's issues fixed - my first attempted playthrough ended in part because my Munar comm network got thrown out into Kerbol orbit! On that topic: Is there an altitude that is safe? Are landed probes safe?

1) So far I've just setup the basic 4 sats around Kerbin. My plan after that was 4 sats around Sonnah probably slightly lower than the Kerbin orbit. Assuming your dishes have a range of 150MM (stock sizes) you should be good for the whole system.

I use this doc to help me plan out RT commsats. Pretty useful for launching and such.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mixKfiKh6obKZTcLSwi-WA5qmIKwk7Ik-9qj3bCSkWU/edit?usp=sharing

2) Well Serran has atmo, so it is a good one way trip option. With a simple Kerbin commsat setup you should be able to land a probe with careful work.

Otherwise Aptur is super cheap and easy to get too. Low SOI and gravity might be troublesome though.

[KillAshley]

I shall. Technically it is working now, but I made a bunch of changes to it yesterday so I wanted to give it another go through before I think of releasing it.

If you are interested I can PM you what I have now if you wanted to test it out. If not or you are too busy, no worries.

It will require Contract Configurator. I don't think stock contracts allow for what I'm doing..

cool, na i don't need an early copy...im pretty patient! I'll look forward to seeing your release dude!

*snip*

my only tip: plan carefully dude it's not as simple as it looks. Planets can be tricky and orbits can be hard to reach. TBH I'd probably remove K+ from your game, it's proven to be riddled with bugs and generally unplayable...replace it with trans-keptunian if you want a few extra bodies.

*snip*

Well wherever you decide to go i expect to see photos of the trip

*snip*

Yeah sorry, i should have been more clear in explaining the issue, and not let people immediately think it's KCT's fault. I'm still looking into it now and then, however i get distracted pretty easily!

1) So far I've just setup the basic 4 sats around Kerbin. My plan after that was 4 sats around Sonnah probably slightly lower than the Kerbin orbit. Assuming your dishes have a range of 150MM (stock sizes) you should be good for the whole system.

I use this doc to help me plan out RT commsats. Pretty useful for launching and such.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mixKfiKh6obKZTcLSwi-WA5qmIKwk7Ik-9qj3bCSkWU/edit?usp=sharing

I'll have to look at that later, I always use RT, and have always done things 'by ear'....might be worth planning for once

[Nori]

Nori, I can't for the life of me cause those issues to happen (I've tried on multiple occasions). Can you send me logs and (if you're not using too many mods) a save file+craft that reliably causes it? You can always rollout from the space center, then go into the editor to launch. It's a convoluted method but it would probably work.

Edit:

In case it's not clear, KCT uses the same function that the Stock game does to create a new flight when clicking on the launchpad/runway. KCT just requires you to launch from the space center more often, which I presume is the cause. I'd be surprised if the stock game + New Horizons didn't have the issue if you launched exclusively through the launchpad.

Also, since KCT 1.2 simulations and launches use the exact same function as each other. So it definitely sounds like a starting scene issue. Which I've seen before, when launching from the Tracking Station (which is no longer an option because you'd start 50 meters off the ground).

Ah, yes, what KillAshley said. I didn't mean to make it sound like KCT's problem! I think it is just a weird interaction problem.

Anyway, I will see if I can get a "test" install that reproduces the issue.

Edited August 2, 2015 by Nori

[magico13]

Anyway, I will see if I can get a "test" install that reproduces the issue.

Nori's test install that he sent me is providing some valuable input. I'm trying to see what I can pin down right now.

Edit: I found the problem! I can reliably reproduce this and I know why KCT exasperates the issue. First, I want to point out, that I can make it happen reliably without KCT even being installed. Second, I've found two ways to make it happen, the second one is why KCT makes it worse.

1) Loading a save and launching a vessel without a scene change (aka, by clicking the launchpad in the space center scene without going to the Tracking Station or Editor first).

2) Timewarping and then launching a vessel from the Space Center scene. I've only tested by going up to max timewarp so far. I'll try other warp speeds in a moment. (5x and 10x seemed ok. The second highest seemed off. My initial assumption is that it's an inaccuracy in calculating where everything should be, so high timewarps result in a lot of movement in a short time and thus the errors pile up)

If you change scenes before you launch after loading the game or timewarping, the issue doesn't happen. My guess is that it's a Kopernicus bug, likely due to the fact that KSC is on a moon, but I'll try without New Horizons in a moment (and just another Kopernicus mod, like KScale2)

To confirm this as the cause, can everybody, KCT user or not, please try going into the Space Center scene, timewarping at max warp for a second, then clicking the launchpad and launching a vessel. KCT users will get a warning about how that's not how you should launch, this is the one time I'm telling you it's OK to ignore it. And then post the result here (or on KCT's thread here)

Edit2: Not able to reproduce it with just KScale2. With New Horizons I can reproduce it even with a one part ship with 100% reliability. Until it's fixed, KCT users will have to do a quick scene change before launching. KillAshley, you might want to bring it up with the Kopernicus devs to see if there's anything on their side they can do, assuming other people can reproduce the issue as well.

Edited August 3, 2015 by magico13

[dom700]

Hello, I have run into some issues with Aptur. I was trying to complete some surface survey missions, but on one areaI basically gave up. Upon return of my kerbal the lander would always (tested 3 different landing spots) suddenly glitch into the ground (only the parachute on top was still visible) and of course explode immediately. The area in question was that "HUGE" 25 degree slope on the northern part of Aptur.

[eddiew]

You know... I can't help wonder whether Arin and Eve wouldn't be better with their orbit swapped. Eve feels like what would happen if Arin got too hot and all sorts of volatiles started vaporising into the atmosphere.

Just a thought, Arin is pretty either way ^^

[KillAshley]

Hello, I have run into some issues with Aptur. I was trying to complete some surface survey missions, but on one areaI basically gave up. Upon return of my kerbal the lander would always (tested 3 different landing spots) suddenly glitch into the ground (only the parachute on top was still visible) and of course explode immediately. The area in question was that "HUGE" 25 degree slope on the northern part of Aptur.

I'll look into that, thanks for letting me know!

You know... I can't help wonder whether Arin and Eve wouldn't be better with their orbit swapped. Eve feels like what would happen if Arin got too hot and all sorts of volatiles started vaporising into the atmosphere.

Just a thought, Arin is pretty either way ^^

Yeah I thought about that when arranging the system, but I didn't want to make a "new Duna" I figured slightly further away would make it a little more of a challenge to reach compared to the stock layout.

[eddiew]

Yeah I thought about that when arranging the system, but I didn't want to make a "new Duna" I figured slightly further away would make it a little more of a challenge to reach compared to the stock layout.

I'd have been ok with a new Duna ^^; I wanted to suggest alien cacti, but it's so hot where Arin is that they'd have to be based on a non-water fluid like kerosene or brake fluid.

Lave is pretty easy to get an orbiter to with regards to being Duna-y, but it seems a little... how can I word it... forbidding. Something about the colour just doesn't invite landing. It is a grumpy space potato xD

But maybe I'm just being greedy for terrestrial worlds in easy reach

[Tynrael]

Minor SciDef alteration proposed for Eli's Orbital Telescope observation: "Eli looks ill, you don't want at land at all now." to "Eli looks ill, you don't want to land at all now."

I am discovering low cost cloned probes for exploration have extreme limitations- manned missions all the way! I think I want to send a Kerbal to every body I can reach, I will need to recruit more for the planets I don't think I will ever be able to leave from. If I send enough Kerbals to Titanus they should be able to construct a tower of Kabel from the wreckage to reach the heavens!

[eddiew]

Just housekeeping missions today I'm afraid. Finally unlocked nukes and a DMagic high resolution scanner, so sent up a little Sugarglider rocket-bird to get the orbital science from Serran's biomes. Dropped it off at the lab in LKO on the way home, naturally. When you're down on 30% science income, you need the multiplier.

Also used Modular Fuel Tanks to make that rear MK2 tank 100% LF for maximum weight saving. Frankly, New Horizons deserves all the efficiency enhancing mods I can throw at it!

(And yes, pretty much everything I launch now is in MK2 format. This girl had over a 100,000 roots of experiments on her and was well worth getting maximum recovery value!)

...still haven't been brave enough to land on the blue side of Serran. Red/white was pretty hair raising with the thin atmo, blue looks deadly what with being 5km higher... need to gird my loins and get on with it. I have a contract to drop a 5-man station, so that's obviously the starting point. Bringing them home can be 'later' ¬_¬

[Project Pluto]

A successful, but inefficient, capture burn!

[cantab]

In many ways I see Serran as a "new Duna". Both are among they closest worlds to Kerbin, both have atmospheres but not necessarily enough to land with chutes alone, both require an relatively modest amount of delta-V to launch from. Serran seems to be somewhat more challenging, but that seems fitting.