Vaporo Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 (edited) My preference would be for it to keep the look it has now from ground level (I really like the layers of pastel mountains) but almost no effect from orbit. I agree that the air looks like water from orbit, the effect seems too strong but as you say, maybe I am used to the stock air which is invisible.Picture of earth from space for reference:I think the amount of "haze" that you see from space depends a lot on the angle of the light and angle of view and such. Edited April 26, 2015 by Vaporo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Kerman Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 So is this going to remain a separate mod from EVE? Do they have separate goals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Climberfx Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Wow!Running in OSX! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John FX Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Picture of earth from space for reference:http://i.imgur.com/QQAxN.jpgI think the amount of "haze" that you see from space depends a lot on the angle of the light and angle of view and such.I see. I agree that lower altitudes should be more like that but the height I was thinking of when I thought the effect should be lessened is when the planet looks more like this where the scattering looks to be more concentrated around the edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Climberfx Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 The only problem now is this pink behind every loading screen. (OSX, like i said)And it may apear more, because i just install it, going to first fly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrack Posted April 26, 2015 Author Share Posted April 26, 2015 (edited) Honestly I feel like the fog/haze is still too thick- it may just be because I'm used to vanilla KSP's "no haze at all" and I'm able to see so much farther, but with the haze it feels like I'm flying through a cloud bank- and from orbit it looks like the entire planet is covered by an ocean where the mountains stick out like islands. What does it look like if you turn it down?My preference would be for it to keep the look it has now from ground level (I really like the layers of pastel mountains) but almost no effect from orbit. I agree that the air looks like water from orbit, the effect seems too strong but as you say, maybe I am used to the stock air which is invisible.You're both right, the effect is indeed too thick, and with the current implementation it is too dependent on the precomputed atmospheric tables and there is no way to turn it down without ruining the view from ground level. Also, even using a separate configuration for orbit I haven't been able to obtain convincing results yet.I'm not sure if I'm missing something somewhere in the implementation but the shader's behaviour has proven very different from what I expected. I'm still figuring things out and thinking about using a different shader for the orbit + view from space and keeping the current one for the view from the ground and the transitions to lower atmosphere.Right now I think the effect is at it's best between sea level and 5000m altitude.Picture of earth from space for reference:http://i.imgur.com/QQAxN.jpgI think the amount of "haze" that you see from space depends a lot on the angle of the light and angle of view and such.True this, I have to admit though, sometimes real-life can look (a bit, with the right foggy and cloudy conditions) like what the shader is doing right now So is this going to remain a separate mod from EVE? Do they have separate goals?I don't see a reason to fuse them together as it wouldn't exactly be an easy task, but I'm planning to add compatibility with at least the EVE clouds when/if I can figure out everything that is actually wrong.Wow!https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8773/16657915614_e66767a7c0_o.pngRunning in OSX!How do you not get artifacts everywhere in openGL? Edited April 26, 2015 by blackrack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Climberfx Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 That i don't know. but it worked with this last release. Besides the pink screen behinds loading screens, and the fact that i can't load when in SPH.I think that is not a direct problem of your mod, but the one that happens when i reach the memory limit for this game. I will try to remove some other parts to low memory use and check again.(not my memory limit, have 20 gb. The game start to have this sort of behavior in OSX when i reach this limit) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HafCoJoe Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Quite frankly I am happy with how the scatter and scatter looks right now. All I'm waiting for now is the integration with EVE ^-^. Seriously though. You are already taking over the font page of Add on development. Imagine what would happen if you combined the two!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrack Posted April 26, 2015 Author Share Posted April 26, 2015 Quite frankly I am happy with how the scatter and scatter looks right now. All I'm waiting for now is the integration with EVE ^-^. Seriously though. You are already taking over the font page of Add on development. Imagine what would happen if you combined the two!!!When that day comes I will retire from the earth knowing full well I have accomplished my purpose in life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralathon Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 You're both right, the effect is indeed too thick, and with the current implementation it is too dependent on the precomputed atmospheric tables and there is no way to turn it down without ruining the view from ground level. Also, even using a separate configuration for orbit I haven't been able to obtain convincing results yet.I'm not sure if I'm missing something somewhere in the implementation but the shader's behaviour has proven very different from what I expected. I'm still figuring things out and thinking about using a different shader for the orbit + view from space and keeping the current one for the view from the ground and the transitions to lower atmosphere.Right now I think the effect is at it's best between sea level and 5000m altitude.I think the problem is the scale of the planet. IRL mountains are 10's of kilometers away before they begin to haze over. The mountain range west of the KSC is only about 7km away though, so to get the same effect you need to increase the atmospheric haze. But the vertical height of the atmosphere in KSP and IRL are roughly equal. So from orbit the atmosphere seems way thicker than expected.You could fix it by scaling the haze with height or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrack Posted April 26, 2015 Author Share Posted April 26, 2015 (edited) I think the problem is the scale of the planet. IRL mountains are 10's of kilometers away before they begin to haze over. The mountain range west of the KSC is only about 7km away though, so to get the same effect you need to increase the atmospheric haze. But the vertical height of the atmosphere in KSP and IRL are roughly equal. So from orbit the atmosphere seems way thicker than expected.You could fix it by scaling the haze with height or something.As I said, this would require different precomputed tables for the ground and orbit, I can't just adjust it's thickness on the fly. I guess I could try making a different setup for obit and for the ground and fading them in and out I'm not even sure that would work well but I could try it. Edited April 26, 2015 by blackrack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmallFatFetus Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 If you could fade it with a curve like this, It would look really nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanRising Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 It was great! It was amazing! But after that, I tabbed out of KSP while at the edge of the atmosphere, and came back, and the air glowed bright red. When I recovered the vessel I was in, the game crashed and now Scatterer won't load at all. Or at least it won't do anything. I tried to take screenshots, but apparently they didn't save. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrack Posted April 26, 2015 Author Share Posted April 26, 2015 (edited) It was great! It was amazing! But after that, I tabbed out of KSP while at the edge of the atmosphere, and came back, and the air glowed bright red. When I recovered the vessel I was in, the game crashed and now Scatterer won't load at all. Or at least it won't do anything. I tried to take screenshots, but apparently they didn't save.Platform and renderer? Normally the sky should go red and the game would hang for two frames while reloading the tables after you alt-tab out or hit alt-Enter but then recover and continue as normal.- - - Updated - - -Oh dear god, it worksNow I just have to fix a few issues.The best thing I can tell you guys right now is that the framerate hit seems minimal. Edited April 26, 2015 by blackrack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralathon Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Looks amazing! Looking forward to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalculusWarrior Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 (edited) Wow, I can't decide what I'm looking forward to more, 1.0 or that water reflection effect! Seriously, this mod is incredible, you've done incredible work blackrack! Edited April 26, 2015 by CalculusWarrior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoMrBond Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 (edited) My experiences with 0.0.14 so farJavascript is disabled. View full albumVery promising, and usually well behaved. No performance hit that I can tell, and the effect doesn't lag behind the camera at all any more (since 0.0.12)[Edit] Nice ocean, yeahhhhh. Edited April 26, 2015 by NoMrBond Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrack Posted April 26, 2015 Author Share Posted April 26, 2015 My experiences with 0.0.14 so farhttp://imgur.com/a/uvHWQVery promising, and usually well behaved. No performance hit that I can tell, and the effect doesn't lag behind the camera at all any more (since 0.0.12)[Edit] Nice ocean, yeahhhhh.How are you still getting the blue lines bug? I thought I fixed those for good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoMrBond Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 (edited) How are you still getting the blue lines bug? I thought I fixed those for good.Sorry I don't know, what kind of information would help diagnose?I'm running in borderless window modeOpenGLControl panel force 16x aniso and 8x AA (+ 2x supersample on transparency and MFAA)Please let me know if you'd like any particular feature poked/proded/disabled etc and retested[Edit] MFAA enable/disable = no effect (still blue lines)[Edit] AA Transparency enable/disable = no effect[Edit] AA enable/disable = no effect[Edit] Aniso enable/disable = no effect[Edit] RSS atmosphere horizon modification (KSPRC) install/remove = no effect[Edit] PanetShine install/remove = no effect[Edit] E.V.E. install/remove = no effectNot sure what else to try at this point? Ideas? Edited April 26, 2015 by NoMrBond Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starwaster Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 True this, I have to admit though, sometimes real-life can look (a bit, with the right foggy and cloudy conditions) like what the shader is doing right now http://i.imgur.com/PsuusB3.jpgI didn't like the viewpoint in your photo so I instinctively pressed 'V' to change the camera angle.... (spoiler alert: it didn't work!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaRi Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanRising Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 (edited) Platform and renderer? Normally the sky should go red and the game would hang for two frames while reloading the tables after you alt-tab out or hit alt-Enter but then recover and continue as normal.No, I don't mean that effect, I mean the color of Kerbin's atmosphere changed to bright red. I haven't been able to reproduce it though. Win64, but running 32-bit KSP and Dx9, to answer your question.Also, that water is the best thing since... well, since the scattering, but it's still amazing. Though you are right about Now I just have to fix a few issues.EDIT: I agree with the last post. Edited June 4, 2015 by RyanRising Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbmaestro Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 I too will be keeping an eye on this. Tried the last version and worked for a while but forgot to disable the rendering and turned the terrain all black. Hopefully there will be a more user friendly version soon. Very excited.That water shader.. about time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrack Posted April 27, 2015 Author Share Posted April 27, 2015 Sorry I don't know, what kind of information would help diagnose?I'm running in borderless window modeOpenGLControl panel force 16x aniso and 8x AA (+ 2x supersample on transparency and MFAA)Please let me know if you'd like any particular feature poked/proded/disabled etc and retested[Edit] MFAA enable/disable = no effect (still blue lines)[Edit] AA Transparency enable/disable = no effect[Edit] AA enable/disable = no effect[Edit] Aniso enable/disable = no effect[Edit] RSS atmosphere horizon modification (KSPRC) install/remove = no effect[Edit] PanetShine install/remove = no effect[Edit] E.V.E. install/remove = no effectNot sure what else to try at this point? Ideas?Usually forced aniso causes it, if you no longer have aniso forced from the drivers try putting KSP graphics in "fastest" mode, that usually fixes it. In the previous versions I used to disable aniso from within the mod itself but after I switched to a new mesh I found it wasn't necessary anymore. In this case it might be stilla problem with openGL(full of problems btw), give it a try with dx9. If not I could just put in a "toggle aniso" switch for people who get the bug.Tried the last version and worked for a while but forgot to disable the rendering and turned the terrain all black. Not sure I understand how you did this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HafCoJoe Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 (edited) I keep getting a bug with this where the KSC at menu screen is zoomed in on the SPH and I can't click anything. Would you know anything about this Blackrack? I know it's caused by Scatterer because it disappears when I delete it. Edited April 27, 2015 by Avera9eJoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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