Would It Be Possible to Go To Mun in a Spaceplane?

[DodoBird]

I'm really sorry if this may sound like a VERY stupid quiestion, but I'm kind of new to this game, anyways. Still, would it be possible. Oh, and I don't mind using mods, if I'd have to. Thanks in advance!

[The Yellow Dart]

I've seen someone do the entire Jool system with a stock spaceplane, so yes the Mun is very possible.

[DodoBird]

Thank you for the response!

[Van Disaster]

Completely possible in stock, and not *too* hard. A step above making it to orbit and back though, so start with that first

[UnusualAttitude]

Here, some inspiration for you...!

Using Ferram Aerospace Research, but also quite possible in stock I believe...

Good luck, UA.

[Starhawk]

In case you need more inspiration, here's a stock spaceplane. This one can land on the Mun and Minmus before returning to KSC.

Happy landings!

[Vanamonde]

Plenty of people have done it.

I am not one of them, because, despite playing this game for 3 flippin' years, I still suck at making aircraft.

[Starwhip]

Bah, who needs Mun?

(Minmus is much easier than Mun, but Mun is definitely possible!)

[DodoBird]

I will definitely try this! (Once I figure out how to land a friggin' spaceplane...)

[Wanderfound]

You'll have to learn twice; landing on the Mun is a bit different to landing in atmosphere.

Demo:

[Alshain]

I will definitely try this! (Once I figure out how to land a friggin' spaceplane...)

Lol, you don't have to know how to land a Spaceplane to go the Mun. There is no atmosphere, so you can't land it like a plane anyway. A plane landing requires air under the wings. You have to land it like a lander. There are several ways, you can make a tail sitter, or just bring your speed down to 0 before touching down and then nose forward to land on the gear.... and then there is VTOL.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Alshain

[Van Disaster]

Simplest to come down on the tail, stop descent near the ground & bump a tiny bit of ascent rate back in, flip horizontal & land on RCS or vernors or something. This is Minmus but the same thing, also a single stage there & back craft.

[KerikBalm]

I've seen someone do the entire Jool system with a stock spaceplane, so yes the Mun is very possible.

Ummm.... I very much doubt that...

Laythe and back is certainly possible. Likely the low grav moons like bop and Pol.. perhaps even Val....

But single stage from LKO to Tylo and back? I call BS.

All in the same mission? BS (although maybe you mean you could use a single space plane to visit any single moon, before returning to kerbin, and then launch a new mission to the next body in the Jool system

If they made use of fuel depots, then its not a single spaceplane... its a spaceplane + all the other craft to put the fuel there, a multi launch mission.

If the craft had a detachable lander, then the spaceplane didn't actually go down to Tylo, did it? (on top of that, a single stage Tylo lander is very difficult... and must be pretty big to lift even a lander can to orbit - if your lander stages, then you leave pieces behind, not a single craft)

Back to the OP's question:

I'm really sorry if this may sound like a VERY stupid quiestion, but I'm kind of new to this game, anyways. Still, would it be possible. Oh, and I don't mind using mods, if I'd have to. Thanks in advance!

If you use mods, you can make a single stage craft and land on every body in the solar system in a single mission. Just change your engine ISP to 99999999, and buff the thrust so you don't need to worry about TWR or long burns...

But yes, Mun SSTOs are possible.

Its quite easy to get to Mun with a spaceplane.... getting to Mun and back with a single stage spaceplane is much harder... but still possible.

As with rockets, its actually easier to land and return from Minmus than the Mun.

When I did my Mun spaceplane, I made use of Ion engines and the LV-N. The ion engine burns took a while, and I'm sure its possible without them.

*I perapsis kicked my way to the Mun using ions, and a bit of LV-N because I was impatient, then landed under ion+ LVN power.

Then IIRC I ran out of liquid fuel when trying to reach orbit from the mun, but was very close to orbit and the ion engines could handle the rest.

[eddiew]

Spaceplane with rover, even Smallest model I've done it with. Needs nervas and rapiers, and you don't have a lot of TWR on the nuke, or spare delta-v overall, so vernors are for the last 50m only, but it gets there and back without a refuel.

Flown with FAR. Not sure if it'll make it under stock - but if you're doing spaceplanes without FAR, you're just punishing yourself ^^

[Rhomphaia]

Ummm.... I very much doubt that...

Laythe and back is certainly possible. Likely the low grav moons like bop and Pol.. perhaps even Val....

But single stage from LKO to Tylo and back? I call BS.

All in the same mission? BS (although maybe you mean you could use a single space plane to visit any single moon, before returning to kerbin, and then launch a new mission to the next body in the Jool system

Spaceplane and SSTO are not synonymous.

It is entirely possible to have an SSTO that is not a spaceplane. Similarly it is entirely possible to have a multi-stage spaceplane.

[The Yellow Dart]

Spaceplane and SSTO are not synonymous.

It is entirely possible to have an SSTO that is not a spaceplane. Similarly it is entirely possible to have a multi-stage spaceplane.

That is exactly right. The plane I was speaking of started as a massive jumble of parts stuck together with struts. It ditched a couple booster immediately after

takeoff just to get it into the air, had lots of drop tanks and 2 or 3 separate landers that got left behind after last use. By the time it got back to Kerbin it was just a tiny little plane, it was very impressive. It was just a collection of pics, though, not a video, and I can't seem to find it anymore.

[Rhomphaia]

That is exactly right. The plane I was speaking of started as a massive jumble of parts stuck together with struts. It ditched a couple booster immediately after

takeoff just to get it into the air, had lots of drop tanks and 2 or 3 separate landers that got left behind after last use. By the time it got back to Kerbin it was just a tiny little plane, it was very impressive. It was just a collection of pics, though, not a video, and I can't seem to find it anymore.

I'm guessing this is what you were thinking of

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/57197-The-Ultimate-Jool-5-Challenge-land-Kerbals-on-all-moons-and-return-in-one-big-mission?p=1180742#post1180742

[KerikBalm]

True, but in most cases in KSP spaceplane = ssto, its especially implied if you are visiting an airless body

Why would you bother carrying wings around for all that (and jet engines?) if you don't mind discarding parts?

Of course, one also has to define what a spaceplane is...

The STS orbiter for example... it doesn't launch like a plane, its just a gliding reentry vehicle. It does make a horizontal landing though...

But I've made tail sitter designs that should be considered spaceplanes - they had wings and did horizontal air breathing flight... but they were tailsitting VTOLs (like the XFY-1 pogo).

But then I've also stuck control surfaces on what is otherwise a pretty standard lander... like the control fins on a guided bombs - simply to fine tune my landing site - how many of these 3 vehicles count as a spaceplane?

* The top left one one uses a modded propulsion - motors which use electricity and work in an atmosphere, capable of horizontal flight, although it has parachutes for vertical landings - certainly a plane, and it has an LV-N to get to Duna orbit, but it can't make Kerbin orbit (It was a 2 stage spaceplane, with recoverable rapier boosters to get to kerbin orbit

* The bottom left one is just a mobile lab rover, that I slapped some fins on to control it during reentry, and somewhat to lessen the opening shock of the parachutes.

*The right one is a tail sitting lander with 2x adv. canards, and 2x delta deluxe winglets. LV-N powwered... is that a spaceplane? (it obviously didn't self launch, but was carried up as payload). Its flight profile is a simple gravity turn on ascent. - it has some solar panels deployed in that shot, don't mistake them for more wings.

When something crosses the line and become a "spaceplane" is not clear.

But it is pretty clear when a craft is single stage....

If you allow staging, you can get a spaceplane pretty much anywhere....

Heck you could go to Eve and back in a spaceplane if you allow staging.....

[Alshain]

True, but in most cases in KSP spaceplane = ssto, its especially implied if you are visiting an airless body

Why would you bother carrying wings around for all that (and jet engines?) if you don't mind discarding parts?

The NASA shuttle is a spaceplane. It had wings and no jets. It's destination had no atmosphere. The wings were there for the return trip, which would be true for Kerbin too.

[KerikBalm]

It didn't really go anywhere.

And it was pretty pointless looking back...

Its wings allowed aborts...

They aided recovery of the main engines... you wouldn't take those engines beyond low orbit anyway.

They allowed it to recover stuff from orbit, which was pretty much not used.

Not to get into a debate about the space shuttle again... I'm just saying... especially in KSP where reentry is a breeze (but not after 1.0)... there's no reason to carry all that stuff beyond LKO.

[jonrd463]

Regarding the OP, I've done it before, but as sort of a STS-meets-Apollo arrangement. I stick the lander in the payload bay on an IR powered hinge that flips it up 90 degrees. Makes it easier to dock for the return trip, and I save money on being able to bring the lander home.

[Hodo]

Without de-railing this thread any further and placing it back on topic.

Yes it is very possible. The thing is if you are landing on an airless surface you will really consider a VTOL landing option for the craft.

[RexKramer]

In response to the OP, in 0.90 it is absolutely possible. Minmus is easier, but Mun is absolutely doable.

My preferred configuration is a fairly normal spaceplane, with a small rocket engine mounted on the belly, as close to the CG as I can get it. 48-7s is the engine I use, usually mounted to a cubic octagonal strut.

I use a LVN or sometimes just small rocket engines to get to Mun/Minmus, and descend normally. At about 20 meters above the surface, I stop the descent, and maybe climb slightly. I then deactivate the horizontal rocket(s), activate the belly rocket, and rotate to a horizontal attitude. On Minmus, a single 48-7s on the belly is plenty to land comfortably. On Mun, I usually mount two belly rockets, although you could probably get away with one.

This has actually become my preferred method of getting to Minmus. I play completely stock.

[The Yellow Dart]

I'm guessing this is what you were thinking of

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/57197-The-Ultimate-Jool-5-Challenge-land-Kerbals-on-all-moons-and-return-in-one-big-mission?p=1180742#post1180742

Yup! That's the one! That thing is incredible. Probably won't be possible, or at least it will be a lot more difficult, once aerodynamics gets fixed.

[Van Disaster]

Not to get into a debate about the space shuttle again... I'm just saying... especially in KSP where reentry is a breeze (but not after 1.0)... there's no reason to carry all that stuff beyond LKO.

From a FAR user's perspective, which will probably be nearer 1.0 than current:

Well, fuel is cheaper than anything else. Once you've done a few runs you've recovered the much higher initial outlay of a spaceplane vs reusable SSTO rockets, so until you're shipping so much around a local system and it's moons that transshipping it to slightly lighter vacuum-only craft is worth the cost of all the extra infrastrucure it does make some sense, especially for Kerbin or other places equally easy to get to orbit from. It's only really that ease that makes it worth it.

Wings aren't that heavy by themselves, add atmospheric engines & their infrastructure and then it can look pretty bad. I can't see running regular interplanetary spaceplane missions making much sense; I've sent spaceplanes to Laythe ( thinking about it without even refuelling ) but only because I had nothing there at all & wanted to fly round Laythe. They were pretty enormous for something which could only take a few crew & very little cargo, and not exactly stellar aircraft. For occasionally dropping stuff off in Mun orbit though? I can just add a tank to a LKO lifter spaceplane & I'm there, no messing with tugs, transshipment, extra hardware for docking. Not optimised for a repeat schedule, but then I haven't had to do a seperate launch for the orbital gear to do it.

Kerbin ought to be just a bit bigger, I think.