New Mobile Processing Lab mechanics

[Foxster]

I think the infinite science issue is a red herring. Science is not really infinite because at some point you fill out the tech tree and that's it. The numbers might go up still if you visit the labs and collect the science but why would you?

I've just about finished the tech tree in a new science game for 1.0. It didn't make much difference to how long it took using MPLs doing continuous research compared to if I'd collected and returned the data. The craft were bigger and the missions more complicated with MPLs. I put 8 at different biomes on the Mun and one on Minmus with all the science experiments onboard. I then did a Duna mission and after that all the MPLs were full with 500 science. Harvesting that fleshed out anything else useful on the tech tree. Another round and it will likely be finished.

So, this feature doesn't really make MPLs a reason to have bases beyond the mid-term. They are useless once the tech tree is done with. Unless I suppose you were playing a contract game and wanted to convert the science into cash. It did make an interesting change to do the science this way though.

[Xavven]

They are useless once the tech tree is done with. Unless I suppose you were playing a contract game and wanted to convert the science into cash. It did make an interesting change to do the science this way though.

That's exactly what I plan to use it for -- science -> funds. I agree, though, that in a Science Mode game, they're just bragging points after the tree is done. You've got sandbox at that point.

[webanck]

That's exactly what I plan to use it for -- science -> funds. I agree, though, that in a Science Mode game, they're just bragging points after the tree is done. You've got sandbox at that point.

An idea would be to make science decrease through time which would make some random tech tree nodes to be locked back.

It's a bit like you have to maintain you developpment level or you will fall back to Middle Ages, as Isaac Asimov predicted it in his Foundation books ^^.

[KerbMav]

After sleeping and thinking it over here are my two cents.

Overall it is a really good change/addition.

The bonus to data from experiments that are put into a lab in the same area they were done is a nice gameplay reason to build stations and bases across the system and somehow logically explainable.

Yet the bonus from being on Eeloo and getting a bigger bonus to Munar data than being on Duna does not make sense to me.

But I like the new mechanic and am happy the ban on overtime-anything was lifted.

[smjjames]

The main problem with Eeloo though is that it takes YEARS to get there.

[LameLefty]

The main problem with Eeloo though is that it takes YEARS to get there.

Sure. That's exactly the reason most of us long-time players use KAC to manage multiple simultaneous missions in parallel. Of course, if you run any kind of half-way efficient program, you'll have maxed out your Tech Tree long before your mission to Eeloo even arrives - by the time it gets there you'll find it's hopelessly obsolete and you'll have forgotten how to fly efficiently with the more primitive parts. And of course any new Science!â„¢ you recover will be useless unless you have a Strategy that converts Science!â„¢ to Funds or something.

[Laie]

The main problem with Eeloo though is that it takes YEARS to get there.

I doubt that it's even worthwhile. The multiplier in space high around Kerbin already is quite good. I found that a brief tour of the Kerbin system was sufficient to fill the lab to it's 500 point maximum, just with data collected from orbit around Kerbin and the Mun.

The problem is on the other end: With one-star scientists, a load of 500 Data will yield less than one point/day and last several years. That's totally underwhelming.

As the experience system requires you to return your scientists from faraway places in order to gain more stars, Labs seem to be a very late-game feature. Only really useful after you've already been to most places, or maybe not even then. Does anybody know how better scientists affect the output?

[Kelderek]

There's a cap of 500 science on the lab right? This means that you need to periodically transmit to empty it out and also to add in a little more data (keep the data as high as possible). It's a very slow trickle of science which means that in all likelihood you will only check on the lab between time warps. Using better scientists increased the rate at which you gain science, but not the capacity of the lab, so that means you need to check the lab more often to transmit a full "tank" of science points. But since you are likely using time warp anyway, what is the difference between time warping a few days more or less to get the full science?

Perhaps scientists should also increase the storage capacity for the science collected through research.

My personal use of the lab so far has been on a journey out to a planet and then back to land at Kerbin, so I was able to use the lab to research and transmit science while I time warped from maneuver to maneuver. I did not leave a lab in space though, I brought it back home. I easily added 1000+ science to my mission by doing it this way though, so I guess that was handy.

[KerbMav]

With the appropriate strategies in management science points equal money so even late in the game science points have a use, even those from Eeloo.

But bringing experiments to Eeloo from Kerbin, Mun etc. makes no roleplaying/realistic sense to me.

The slow trickle of science really is only a problem because of the lack of info on labs processing status.

For modders to provide such info - e.g. KAC - it would be helpful to know when the calculations are made.

Is the conversion calculated retroactively when returning to the lab as active vessel or constantly in the background?

Does the amount of data influence the conversion speed only when starting the processing or is the science/day rate getting lower again over time?

[Silpion]

• You can put an experiment in as many labs as you like
  

How does this work? I just sent a craft with 2 labs to Bop, and no data ever goes into one of the labs. Both are staffed with two scientists each. Whenever I click the yellow button to send data to the labs, it only goes to one of them. Also, weirdly, the data stays in its original instrument, and I'm presented with the science pop-up a second time. Clicking the yellow button again brings up an error that the science was already sent to the lab, but I can still transmit the data.

The second lab just sits there idle, with no data and some hungry kerbals.

[Foxster]

I think you need to separate the labs into two craft and run the experiments on each.

[Aerindel]

I've harvested gobs of science. I have a lab int Kerbin orbit, one in mun orbit, mun surface, and the same for minmus and I've pulled out 2-3k worth of science from each of them. Just fill each up with 500 data and reap the rewards, and you still get to keep the science from transmitting so its a win-win. If anything science labs are overpowered.

[webanck]

Ok, I just tried the experiment analysis of the new science lab with accelerated time and it seems that its rate isn't affected by the time warping factor, is this intended or a bug?

Note that, in consequence, the EC resource consumption is not affected either.

I am definitely going to look for more infos about the new ModuleScienceLab mechanics and let you know guys if I find some usefull stuff around

[Proply]

Hi, does the body the lab is orbiting have an effect on the data to science conversion rate, or only the amount of data you get from a given experiment?

[Mapoko]

I had only 1 kerbal in this station.

I went and took some data with the rover, then collected it with the kerbal and did put it inside the cupola (Had 9 reports, so thankfully this changed!)

Then I moved my kerbal to the lab and I could not review the experiments.

I moved the experiments to the lab on EVA, but still could not. Then I did send an engineer with the empty fuel tank shipment, so the engineer was in the cupola, while the scientist was in the lab, so I could review the data and finally start researching.

I wish I knew I can use the data in different labs, so instead of landing my "data truck" loaded with 800 data from my LKO Science station I would've went and used it on Minmus too. Seems kind of cheaty, though.

P.S.: You only need 1 kerbal to operate the lab. Not sure if you put 2 scientist that the boost accumulates or only takes the senior.

[RoverDude]

With the appropriate strategies in management science points equal money so even late in the game science points have a use, even those from Eeloo.

But bringing experiments to Eeloo from Kerbin, Mun etc. makes no roleplaying/realistic sense to me.

The slow trickle of science really is only a problem because of the lack of info on labs processing status.

For modders to provide such info - e.g. KAC - it would be helpful to know when the calculations are made.

Is the conversion calculated retroactively when returning to the lab as active vessel or constantly in the background?

Does the amount of data influence the conversion speed only when starting the processing or is the science/day rate getting lower again over time?

A consideration is that your rate is going to diminish over time - i.e. as data is pulled and converted into transmittable science, your conversion rate drops/

How does this work? I just sent a craft with 2 labs to Bop, and no data ever goes into one of the labs. Both are staffed with two scientists each. Whenever I click the yellow button to send data to the labs, it only goes to one of them. Also, weirdly, the data stays in its original instrument, and I'm presented with the science pop-up a second time. Clicking the yellow button again brings up an error that the science was already sent to the lab, but I can still transmit the data.

The second lab just sits there idle, with no data and some hungry kerbals.

Staying in it's original instrument is by design.

Ok, I just tried the experiment analysis of the new science lab with accelerated time and it seems that its rate isn't affected by the time warping factor, is this intended or a bug?

Note that, in consequence, the EC resource consumption is not affected either.

I am definitely going to look for more infos about the new ModuleScienceLab mechanics and let you know guys if I find some usefull stuff around

It should totally work in time warp, just remember the note above - i.e. your conversion rate is proportional to how much data you have, and this is decreasing over time, so there is a VERY long tail.

I've harvested gobs of science. I have a lab int Kerbin orbit, one in mun orbit, mun surface, and the same for minmus and I've pulled out 2-3k worth of science from each of them. Just fill each up with 500 data and reap the rewards, and you still get to keep the science from transmitting so its a win-win. If anything science labs are overpowered.

When I see arguments over whether something is OP in the same thread as folks complaining something is too slow/not worth it, I take that as a good sign But given you have several bases, you're using the system as intended.

Hi, does the body the lab is orbiting have an effect on the data to science conversion rate, or only the amount of data you get from a given experiment?

Only the amount of data in the lab.

[MoeMelek]

I have not looked at the turorials - but now that there is an official release of the game ... how is that manual coming along?

There is the wiki:

http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Mobile_Processing_Lab_MPL-LG-2

[MissStabby]

Then here's a question, How do you know what experiments you already fed to your lab and what ones you can still stuff into one?

Especially if you'd run multiple labs i can imagine it will get confusing really quickly about which experiments can still be used for data.

[boostme]

I can understand pilots eating the experiments, but surely engineers will only have a taste.

[CorBlimey]

I like the lab system (I will play with a life support mod to add an overhead to letting them run) but what i have found most annoying is that I cannot select processed experiments only to remove from the lab for return back to Kerbin with my crew exchanges.

I inevitably fill up the data pretty darn quickly (even flying the lab to its site will fill it once pretty much, then grab some stuff from nearby biomes for a refill).

However, I cannot leave the experiments that still have data unprocessed on them but take everything else.

[InfinityArch]

Orbiting Ike I was getting about .6 science per day, and by the time a transfer window opened up back to Kerbin, I had already produced about 1200 science just letting them sit their researching.

[phunk]

14. You can use one experiment and feed it to multiple labs. the limiter here is in the management of so many research facilities.

How do you do this? I had a base with two labs but when I ran experiments the data only went to one of them. It told me I couldn't store more data when one was full and the other still empty.

[Laie]

However, I cannot leave the experiments that still have data unprocessed on them but take everything else.

What I did: collect data in triplicate (science lander has three pods). Later, I process one pod's contents in the lab while the other two are returned to Kerbin.

BTW: bulk science collection is a major clickfest. The ARE YOU SURE dialog when removing from a goo/materials container is the worst offender, but the whole process could be streamlined. On the off chance that Roverdude is seeing this, this is my suggestion for things that need looking into.

Edited May 4, 2015 by Laie

[nholzric]

You can do both. Also, five times the science. But requires an investment in infrastructure.

FIVE TIMES THE SCIENCE! LOL

And I thought I was rock'n it this weekend with a scientist piloting a one-seater around Minmus transmitting, resetting, and then storing science for maximum profit. (Of course my plan was ruined when, while trying to deploy an antenna, I accidentally clicked "transmit data" and all my stored experiments got sucked into the antenna) But despite that misstep, I think scientists being able to reset experiments is really cool. It's very powerful, and now with the lab doing science-over-time, science, although still a bit of a grind, is more exciting than ever! Win!

[webanck]

It should totally work in time warp, just remember the note above - i.e. your conversion rate is proportional to how much data you have, and this is decreasing over time, so there is a VERY long tail.

Thanks RoverDude but I was not speaking about the conversion from data to science but the analysis rate (the displayed percent after the click on the yellow button to analyse a science exepriment data to feed the lab with data).

Then here's a question, How do you know what experiments you already fed to your lab and what ones you can still stuff into one?

Especially if you'd run multiple labs i can imagine it will get confusing really quickly about which experiments can still be used for data.

There is no place where to get this information on the already conducted experiment and I was looking for the same thing.

So I decided to make a mod to display this information. I found the way to do so now but I still need to display it nicely and I will post here when finished