Kerbal Hiring Agency - Engineers Rule?

[TheReadPanda]

So a few questions. Some may know me from my twitch streaming as http://www.twitch.tv/oaktree42 I tend to do a lot of colony building in the past using RoverDude's MKS/OKS system.

I am looking at the balancing issues with the 1.0.x pay for kerbals and have a few questions/suggestions?

First of all, your first new hire costs about 65k. By the time you have 100 kerbals it will cost you around 3,000,000 (3 mil). And before you say that you will never need that many kerbals please realize I had only gotten 3 celestial bodies colonized in my game and already had 70+ kerbals stationed on moons and space stations. So...

If the best probe core costs 3.4k why would you ever hire a pilot past starting game?

With engineers helping drill efficiency, once the science tree is done you have no motivation to hire scientists either?

So it leads to the 'Only engineers are worth it' in the mid/end game? The idea that hiring one more kerbal would cost more than upgrading a building is a bit problematic.

So I think there needs to be things pilots can do that the best probe core can not. I think scientists need some effect on things even after the tree is fully explored? Not sure what on this but these things need to be looked at for end game.

So any ideas? Am I missing something? I know scientists can help increase your science gain but in stock I don't see much benefit to pilots once you get the highest probe cores and I don't see much use in scientists once you finish the tech tree? Or is the game basically meant to be 'done' once you get to that point?

Anyway, hope to see other folks ideas out there. And if my math is wrong or I'm missing something I would love to know that too!

-OakTree42

[Reddeyfish]

pilots are less likely to run out of power and stop working completely.

Mods like RemoteTech add the idea of probe connection issues and makes pilots very viable, but it is a mod.

other than that, nothing I can think of.

EDIT: scientists can still be useful if you're converting science into funds or reputation through administration strategies.

[BDelacroix]

I have a slew of rescue so and so from orbit contracts which may be a way to get sort of free employees.

[TheReadPanda]

Yes, if you have remote tech you need a person but you could, from what I understand, put an engineer and a probe core and get the benefit of the kerbal and the piloting skill of the probe? Let me know if this is not a thing but I thought it was?

As for science, yeah, you're right, if you turn science into k-bucks then definitely. I hadn't thought of /that/ So yes, scientists are definitely good still. Not /as/ good as engineers, but better than pilots.

Ah well, Still open to other questions/answers there. Also if you use remote tech and tac life, you can reduce the entire load on your tac life support by only having the engineer not two kerbals, although it is true the probe core eats electrical current it is likely easier than putting supplies in for another kerbal, plus the costs of the pilot and his supplies?

[Commander Jebidiah]

I'm very much like the OP in this matter, what is the point in having certain kerbals.

Scientist, - able to do temperature reports by rclicking thermometer on eva. Redundant, just add a probe.

Pilot -hold trajectory. Redundant, after SAS is unlocked.

Engineer - fix chutes, legs, wheels and increase mining eficiency. Most useful and worth the money.

[Alshain]

I've been wanting to try RemoteTech for a long time but sadly it still isn't updated and I just couldn't wait to try 1.0. After I finish my nearly-stock run through the tech tree, hopefully everything will be updated and I can start fresh with a new set of mods. Aside from contracts, I do feel like satellites have little purpose

[TheReadPanda]

I did have one idea, adding a new strategy from the administration building to hire kerbals with rep or make them cheaper with rep/science or something. That seems a bit like a no - brainer? Not sure. And yes but rescuing kerbals leaves you with random career kerbals and so on. Still! I may just need to use mods to make/buy kerbals cheaper.

[magnemoe]

I'm very much like the OP in this matter, what is the point in having certain kerbals.

Scientist, - able to do temperature reports by rclicking thermometer on eva. Redundant, just add a probe.

Pilot -hold trajectory. Redundant, after SAS is unlocked.

Engineer - fix chutes, legs, wheels and increase mining eficiency. Most useful and worth the money.

Scientist can reset goo and material labs, I see this as their most useful function, click on to get data is nice if you want to get multiple samples but not important. They are also required for the lab module.

Engineers is also an requirement for the KIS mod,

Pilots are weakest as sas does the same, perhaps an bonus to efficiency or heat management?

[Aragosnat]

Yeah. Pilots are not needed after getting the first SAS probe. Bonus to rep might help them as Jeb is a poster child for the program. Heat managment might be a good one. Or how about start out at level 2. So that they are not only more useful to new players. Or gain exp faster. Even though that might not be useful. Another possability would be. Patched conics without needing to upgrade the tracking station while flying. Trick would be making the traking station only really effective around Kerbin and less effective as you get farther away from Kerbin's SOI.

[mikegarrison]

As an engineer myself, I think this is perfectly reasonable!

[Lukaszenko]

Perfectly reasonable indeed. Except clearly engineers should cost more to hire. In the game, too.

[SkyRender]

Some tweaks to usefulness would certainly come in handy for Kerbals. As it stands now, Pilots have a huge early-game advantage until you get SAS-enabled probe cores, scientists have an edge mid-game until the tech tree is fully unlocked (their ability to clean experiments is not to be underestimated!), and Engineers are end-game deities compared to the other two types. That's not so much a balance as it is a progression.

[CalculusWarrior]

It's been said that SQUAD is continuing to look at ways to enhance the different classes, so we could see more things for our kerbals to do come 1.1.

[Geschosskopf]

If the best probe core costs 3.4k why would you ever hire a pilot past starting game?

With engineers helping drill efficiency, once the science tree is done you have no motivation to hire scientists either?

So it leads to the 'Only engineers are worth it' in the mid/end game? The idea that hiring one more kerbal would cost more than upgrading a building is a bit problematic.

I completely agree. Pilots have no purpose in the game other than to provide SAS. Once you get the OKTO probe core, the 1st that does SAS, which is pretty early in the tech tree, pilots are completely redundant. Even higher-level probe cores are redundant. All this time I've been flying rockets pointing them at the various navball markers by hand, which is no problem. I've never once used the "point-to" buttons of either probes or pilots. So to save money and mass, I only use the OKTO and put it inside a 1.25m or 2.5m service bay as needed for the diameter of the rocket. And unless you have mods that extend the tech tree, there's no need for scientists once you've finished that. So yeah, only engineers for the long haul. Engineers can fix flat tires, repack chutes, repair things, build things with KIS, and of course make mines more efficient. Utterly indespensible.

So any ideas?

Well, I'd scrap the whole character class system and go back to generic Kerbals. Failing that, I'd scrap the whole KXP system and start afresh. The upshot of the existing system, which unrealistically gives you no improvement for repetitive practice but only for the 1st time you do something, is that it forces players, especially early in the game when scientists still matter, to build bigger, more expensive ships than their available parts and budget really approve of, just so they can level up members of all classes they have a use for. And it's especially bad that experience only accrues upon return to Kerbin, so the only way to get the benefits ON Duna of going to Duna is to send the guy twice. Which puts an even bigger strain on the budget.

For these reasons, pilots should remain useless. If you do something like impose dV inefficiency on ships without pilots, then you make the situation worse because now you have to send a pilot everywhere just to avoid the penalty, besides carrying the engineer and/or scientist you really need on the spot. So that makes for even bigger, more expensive ships. And in real life, automation flies more precisely than humans anyway.

So what I would do instead is allow cross-training of pilots and scientists to become engineers, and for engineers and scientists to gain the ability to use SAS. Seriously, in all the months Kerbals spend coasting between burns, they could be hitting the books. Or having knowledge downloaded into their heads while they're in cryosleep. However you want to imagine it. But how hard can it be to teach a Kerbal to hit the T button on the instrument panel to activate the SAS system? Or to change a flat rover tire or repack a chute? Or write down an observation that the goo feels right at home here?