How to Become a Commercial Pilot

[worir4]

I made my mind that I would like to become a commercial pilot. I currently live in the UK and am in college(17). I have been looking at different routs into becoming a pilot. The easiest and cheapest seems to be the RAF however this is not really an option for me as i am...morally opposed to it. I have looked at private training but this can be in excess of £80,000 which I can't afford. The best way that i have found is through a university degree such as this:

http://www.salford.ac.uk/ug-courses/aircraft-engineering-with-pilot-studies

This seems really good with a placement year and offer of a private licence for much cheaper (around £8000 + standard University fee). It seems too good to be true as the entry requirements are only 280 UCAS points (roughly BBC at A-level). I can achieve this and afford it.

I was wondering if any one here is a pilot and how did you get into the profession.

Thanks!

[Camacha]

I made my mind that I would like to become a commercial pilot. I currently live in the UK and am in college(17). I have been looking at different routs into becoming a pilot. The easiest and cheapest seems to be the RAF however this is not really an option for me as i am...morally opposed to it. I have looked at private training but this can be in excess of £80,000 which I can't afford.

Becoming a pilot is intensely expensive. A lot of people have debts of 100 to 200k before becoming a pilot. If there were an easy way around this, everyone would do that, as you do not lightly take out loans that could buy you a house. Also be aware that the pilot market currently is pretty bad. A lot of people do not have a job and still have to pay their debts, causing very harsh and painful issues. It is no fun doing the same unskilled labour everyone does, but with a 100k debt plus interest looming over your head and eating away at your options. The hole sometimes only gets deeper because of the interest being more than your spare income. Some airlines take advantage by actually asking pilot to pay for flying, since they need to make hours to keep their licences valid.

Not to rain on your parade, because I love flying myself and very much understand the urge to do so. It is only fair to warn you of the rather dire situation pilots currently are in. Things might change over the next 10 years and if you are really committed you could certainly give is a go, but it is also important to be realistic about what to expect and which dangers you might face.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Camacha

[jmiki8]

+1 to Camacha.

I study at the Transportation Engineering branch of the Budapest University of Technology, therefore I have a lot of friends who already got the PPL, CPL or even the ATPL. I also know some pilots flying with the Wizz Air (Hungarian-Polish LCC), and some who had flown with the Malév (the Hungarian flag carrier which went bankrupt in 2012). As far as I know, most of them spent ~20-30 million Forints (around £50-70k) on trainings - PPL, CPL and in many cases, ATPL, before they could become first officers. They also had to acquire type rating and flying hours, which meant additional costs. Those ones who found a job can easily make a living, and most of them got rid of their debts after some years of work. However, there are some guys who couldn't complete their training (nobody said it was easy) while they still had to pay their debts. AFAIK, those who finished their training could usually find a job, and get employed as a first officer and later, as a captain. Many of them had to go abroad (mostly to middle eastern airlines - Turkish, Qatar, Emirates, etc-) to start their career, however.

IMHO, you should acquire a nice degree first in some other field (maybe transport/aircraft engineering?) which you could use as a plan B if your plan A (becoming a commercial pilot) fails. If you accumulate a lot of debt, you could still get a nice job and earn enough money to maintain financial stability.

Edited June 17, 2015 by jmiki8

[Camacha]

IMHO, you should acquire a nice diploma first in some other field which you could use as a plan B if your plan A (becoming a commercial pilot) fails. If you accumulate a lot of debt, you could still get a nice job and earn enough money to maintain financial stability.

Depending on where you learn to fly, you need to take out big loans. It might be wise to find out what the general requirements for those loans, because sometimes they will simply refuse because you are too old or otherwise pose a risk to their investment.

[Astronut]

I wouldn't say that becoming a pilot with the RAF is 'an easy route', quite the opposite in fact.

[Sampa]

I made my mind that I would like to become a commercial pilot. I currently live in the UK and am in college(17). I have been looking at different routs into becoming a pilot. The easiest and cheapest seems to be the RAF however this is not really an option for me as i am...morally opposed to it. I have looked at private training but this can be in excess of £80,000 which I can't afford. The best way that i have found is through a university degree such as this:

http://www.salford.ac.uk/ug-courses/aircraft-engineering-with-pilot-studies

This seems really good with a placement year and offer of a private licence for much cheaper (around £8000 + standard University fee). It seems too good to be true as the entry requirements are only 280 UCAS points (roughly BBC at A-level). I can achieve this and afford it.

I was wondering if any one here is a pilot and how did you get into the profession.

Thanks!

Don't quote me on this, but have you considered flight training in the US? It may not be cheaper, but, given America's record for flight safety, i believe American flight schools may have the best training. The very best school i can think of, which is civilian, is Embry Riddle Aeronautical University.

[worir4]

+1 to Camacha.

I study at the Transportation Engineering branch of the Budapest University of Technology, therefore I have a lot of friends who already got the PPL, CPL or even the ATPL. I also know some pilots flying with the Wizz Air (Hungarian-Polish LCC), and some who had flown with the Malév (the Hungarian flag carrier which went bankrupt in 2012). As far as I know, most of them spent ~20-30 million Forints (around £50-70k) on trainings - PPL, CPL and in many cases, ATPL, before they could become first officers. They also had to acquire type rating and flying hours, which meant additional costs. Those ones who found a job can easily make a living, and most of them got rid of their debts after some years of work. However, there are some guys who couldn't complete their training (nobody said it was easy) while they still had to pay their debts. AFAIK, those who finished their training could usually find a job, and get employed as a first officer and later, as a captain. Many of them had to go abroad (mostly to middle eastern airlines - Turkish, Qatar, Emirates, etc-) to start their career, however.

IMHO, you should acquire a nice degree first in some other field (maybe transport/aircraft engineering?) which you could use as a plan B if your plan A (becoming a commercial pilot) fails. If you accumulate a lot of debt, you could still get a nice job and earn enough money to maintain financial stability.

Yeah, I am going with aeronautical engineering as then I can do other things also, however it comes with pilot studies. By the end of the 4 years it says that I will get a private licence. Will that make it easier to get onto training for commercial use. Also i will have some experience in a commercial airline as it says one of the four years is a placement year in industry.

[A35K]

I'm not sure if the U.S. is the best place for this since a lot more hours are required there to be allowed to get an ATPL, and there is a very bad situation there where most pilots spend years working severely underpaid jobs in Regional Airlines, while very few get the highly paid jobs at the major airlines. I think the best place for this might be Europe.

[Sampa]

I'm not sure if the U.S. is the best place for this since a lot more hours are required there to be allowed to get an ATPL, and there is a very bad situation there where most pilots spend years working severely underpaid jobs in Regional Airlines, while very few get the highly paid jobs at the major airlines. I think the best place for this might be Europe.

The way we look at it, here, you can get your ATP license, but you still lack the necessary job experience. The Under-paid status that the Regional airlines tend to carry are essentially the McDonalds of the sky! A starting level job!

[worir4]

The way we look at it, here, you can get your ATP license, but you still lack the necessary job experience. The Under-paid status that the Regional airlines tend to carry are essentially the McDonalds of the sky! A starting level job!

Do you think the 1 year placement will be valued as job experience?

[LordFerret]

... Embry Riddle Aeronautical University.

My cousin's son is there (campus in Florida)... you need stellar grades to get in there. It's an excellent school.

[Frybert]

Do you think the 1 year placement will be valued as job experience?

Likely, but remember, a lot of places require 2+ years experience. So you'll still be entry level for a year.

[worir4]

Likely, but remember, a lot of places require 2+ years experience. So you'll still be entry level for a year.

I suppose that is not too bad. I can probably afford it (By I, i mean my parents:sticktongue:)

Is any one here on the forums a commercial pilot that could give me some idea of how they got to where they are?

[Justicier]

Another thing to consider is that it isn't just about education. I set myself up on a track to become a pilot in the military, and due to circumstances out of my control, I was unable to. What circumstance? Well, when I was a teenager I grew to be 6'6" tall. Too tall to be a fixed wing pilot, and extremely unlikely to become a chopper pilot. At the time it was quite a shock to realize that no matter how well I did in school, I would never be a pilot due to a physical condition such as being too tall. I am not sure what the requirements are for commercial pilots around the globe, but if your eyesight is less than 20/20, you may have a problem as well. If you have any physical conditions... even heart palpitations or heart murmurs... it makes things ten times more difficult because you are competing against people that don't have any physical "red flags." Now with things the way they are... mental issues will be screened more heavily also. It's just getting more restrictive.

[worir4]

Another thing to consider is that it isn't just about education. I set myself up on a track to become a pilot in the military, and due to circumstances out of my control, I was unable to. What circumstance? Well, when I was a teenager I grew to be 6'6" tall. Too tall to be a fixed wing pilot, and extremely unlikely to become a chopper pilot. At the time it was quite a shock to realize that no matter how well I did in school, I would never be a pilot due to a physical condition such as being too tall. I am not sure what the requirements are for commercial pilots around the globe, but if your eyesight is less than 20/20, you may have a problem as well. If you have any physical conditions... even heart palpitations or heart murmurs... it makes things ten times more difficult because you are competing against people that don't have any physical "red flags." Now with things the way they are... mental issues will be screened more heavily also. It's just getting more restrictive.

I am about 5ft 10 so i don't think height is an issue. I wear glasses but they are not a problem because they correct my vision to 20/20 and I have no medical problems so I think i will be okay in that regard.

[Camacha]

I am about 5ft 10 so i don't think height is an issue. I wear glasses but they are not a problem because they correct my vision to 20/20 and I have no medical problems so I think i will be okay in that regard.

As long as you realize that you will be properly looked at and things you do not know yet might surface (or even develop later) After the Germanwing events, pilots will be scrutinized even more - whether that is reasonable or not. The upside is a regular check-up for free

Another thing to consider is that it isn't just about education. I set myself up on a track to become a pilot in the military, and due to circumstances out of my control, I was unable to. What circumstance? Well, when I was a teenager I grew to be 6'6" tall. Too tall to be a fixed wing pilot, and extremely unlikely to become a chopper pilot.

That is not even that tall, but I suppose it is easier to design things for more average people and pick those that are more physically compatible.

[Frybert]

Also, how is your color vision? I don't just mean if you can see colors, but have you ever been tested for color deficiency? Especially since puberty? Frankly, before you plan anything, I would get a full physical done. Last thing you want to do is get every thing set up and then a medical problem you didn't even know you had throw it all away (trust me I know).

[Astronut]

I suppose that is not too bad. I can probably afford it (By I, i mean my parents:sticktongue:)

Is any one here on the forums a commercial pilot that could give me some idea of how they got to where they are?

Hard work, willingness to move to another country, never letting go or losing sight of the dream, and a healthy dose of luck. I fly in the corporate/charter side of the aviation business. I moved from the UK to the States 13 years ago, primarily to pursue a flying career. I have been very fortunate as it all worked out. It could easily have worked out differently.

[ColKlonk]

Before you even consider doing a COM, go have a Commercial Medical (this has to be done yearly) instead of a PPL medical (1x every 2 years where I am).

The medical is expensive but it'll save you a lot of time and money if you don't make the medical grade.

There have been some PPLs that have gone the whole route to COM, only to have failed their COM medical... dashing their hopes.

So you pass the COM medical... as mentioned have a look at some 'Aviation uni's' - I wish we had those here.

School subjects are the Physical Sciences, Maths, Geography and English (an extra language is an advantage) - Do well in these core subjects.

Seeing that you're in the UK, register on this website and you should get more specific info for your area - http://www.pprune.org/

Also do your homework on flight schools, your local Aviation Authority - In the UK you'd fall under the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA)

There is a library full of documentation that you must wade through. You have to study to be a pilot.. and it's 'worse' than studying for a degree

Remember that these schools and UNis are after your money - it's business. If you're wise enough and do your 'homework', you can do it much cheaper.

Just make sure that you're at approved schools - check with FAA-local authority

Flying School/Uni advice:-

1) No money up front (unless loan/bursary/scholarship) - pay as you go (1 or 2 sessions in advance). You'll have registering/medical/basic expenses to pay first - Don't be shy to ask difficult questions, it's your money!!

2) Only register at a school/uni that has a minimum of 3x aircraft of the same type, that you intend to qualify on.

This is necessary as there will be maintenance/repairs and other down-times, which will only extend you flying program, costing you more money.

Also flying is a practised art, if you don't keep up, you lose touch.. further extending your flying time before qualification.

3) Don't do it in dribs and drabs. Do it in one go, for reasons mentioned above.

NOW this is the most important advise, while gaining hours to COM:

Once you've obtained your PPL (50 - 75 hours), you'll have to complete 200 hours for Commercial license.

1) Do your Instrument Rating (~10hours)

2) Do your Night Rating (~10 hours)

3) Do 100hours (min) night flying PIC (Pilot In Command) = Flying by yourself at night on navigation trips - This is an ATPL requirement.

4) Get ratings on a further 3 or 4 aircraft - all single engine light aircraft

5) Get an instructors rating - Companies want to know you can teach other pilots

This will set you up for the commercial route.

As far as possible stick with the light aircraft to about 1000 hours, then converting to twins and turbo-props around that stage, onto 1500-2000 hours.

I say this as your real flying experience is gained on these aircraft. Moving direct onto too big an aircraft too soon... you don't have that important experience.

If necessary, pop along to small aviation operations, Skydiving clubs, Emergency services.. etc.. and let them know you're available.

Volunteer to do the dirty work (ramp rat) at these places.. be patient, an opportunity will arise, as people move around.

Don't expect too much payment.. you're still gaining experience and more importantly, hours.

Also When you're flying these aircraft, safety is paramount, and you're are the boss.

If maintenance is shoddy and/or you're not happy with something - DO NOT TAKE OFF!! - resolve these issues on the ground first.

If you're lucky enough to get a direct route into a good job... as far as possible, still do the things I've mentioned - experience just talks:cool:

Edited June 20, 2015 by ColKlonk
..must lean two spel.. :)

[worir4]

Thanks for the replies. I think i will go get the medical test done first and then see from there.

[ColKlonk]

I forgot to add..

Get this flight simulator... http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/ and the P51, ME109, or FW190 aircraft.

This sim is close to real aerodynamics, and a good experience on procedures.. etc.

There are the commercial sims on civil aviation, but I've never bothered with that - but they're good in getting you acclimatised on today's aircraft.

I'm not sure how good these are but many people play it... http://www.microsoft.com/Products/Games/FSInsider/downloads/Pages/FlightSimulatorXTrialVersion.aspx

Obviously, Flight Sims are not the real thing, but they go a long way in preparing you for the environment that you work in.

[Camacha]

Obviously, Flight Sims are not the real thing, but they go a long way in preparing you for the environment that you work in.

If I am really honest, I have never found any simulator that even got anywhere near the real thing. The pressures are not there, the joy is lacking - it is just not the same. It can certainly help to build routine and sharpen practice, but as a tool to get started I do not really see it happening.

Professional simulators are another matter, of course.

[ColKlonk]

The flight sim story varies amongst pilots, but general consensus is that a 'flight sim' student learns quicker in the real environment, usually .

.

.

Edt:As I remember things..

The UK/EU can be a very busy airspace, and very bewildering to a newbie.

There are different viewpoints on this, but I'd recommend finding an approved flight school in a 'quiet corner' of the UK.

Close a busy airport is ideal, but not too close

The reasons are numerous:-

1) A new student is not overwhelmed by the new 'code' talk and procedures

2) You get more flight time, instead of waiting in long queues to take off, which wastes your time an money.

3) More airtime = more experience and helps the student get comfortable with his 'office' quicker = less money spent.

Once the PPL is obtained, move to a flight school either at a busy airport, or next to one.

Here the student, then proficient in controlling the aircraft, can now concentrate on big airport procedures.

It'll take 5 or less hours of this, for a PPL to settle down.. then they're on their way.

[ColKlonk]

Well, most of us cannot afford the real thing.. but it's nice to play with these 'toys' even if it's virtual.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4le9ssjw2jc2nqs/P51TakeOffLanding.mp4 (130MB)

[LABHOUSE]

Wait, haven't you mentioned being terrible at planes before....